Various Ramblings On Subject Of Elkie Brooks

[sir cumference]

I defy anyone to be able to spot the difference between the first six notes of Petula Clark's I Know A Place and Rufus Lumley's I'm Standing.

Certainly more difficult than Saxie Russell/Alma Cogan!

[kevinsoulman]

I defy anyone to be able to spot the difference between the first six notes of Petula Clark's I Know A Place and Rufus Lumley's I'm Standing.

AS SOON AS I HIT THE PLAY BUTTON I THOUGHT THAT THEN SCROLLED DOWN TO YOUR POST PETE

KEV

[kevinsoulman]

THE 60'S & 70'S ARE LITTERED WITH EM

KEV

[slimharpo]

I've come to the conclusion that I must be living in a parrallel musical universe. I hear absolutely no soulful or even 'beat' merit in Alma 'the girl with the giggle in her voice' Cogan, Petula Clark, MaureenEvans, Early Elkie Brooks etc etc. And 'colour' has nothing to do with it. There are many great white female American soul singers, it's just that IMO British girls,brought up on a musical diet of Vera Lynn, Gracie Fields etc did not have the R&B heritage to draw on and therefore their sound was more Northern Region Dance Orchestra than Northern Soul.

[Ric-tic]

I've come to the conclusion that I must be living in a parrallel musical universe. I hear absolutely no soulful or even 'beat' merit in Alma 'the girl with the giggle in her voice' Cogan, Petula Clark, MaureenEvans, Early Elkie Brooks etc etc. And 'colour' has nothing to do with it. There are many great white female American soul singers, it's just that IMO British girls,brought up on a musical diet of Vera Lynn, Gracie Fields etc did not have the R&B heritage to draw on and therefore their sound was more Northern Region Dance Orchestra than Northern Soul.

i agree never wanted to listen to dance to or own any of those records i always thought i would leave that kind of stuff to my mum and dad where it seemed to be much more suitable.

[jocko]

I defy anyone to be able to spot the difference between the first six notes of Petula Clark's I Know A Place and Rufus Lumley's I'm Standing.

Lots of British pop records sound good for the first seconds, then the singing starts and its all over.......

[Pete S]

I've come to the conclusion that I must be living in a parrallel musical universe. I hear absolutely no soulful or even 'beat' merit in Alma 'the girl with the giggle in her voice' Cogan, Petula Clark, MaureenEvans, Early Elkie Brooks etc etc. And 'colour' has nothing to do with it. There are many great white female American soul singers, it's just that IMO British girls,brought up on a musical diet of Vera Lynn, Gracie Fields etc did not have the R&B heritage to draw on and therefore their sound was more Northern Region Dance Orchestra than Northern Soul.

Who said there was any soul in it? You're looking for something that's not there and doesn't need to be there. You don't have to look for 'soul' in every record otherwise your horizons wouldn't be very broad at all. It's just a great record.

[Pete S]

Lots of British pop records sound good for the first seconds, then the singing starts and its all over.......

A bit like most of your posts, sound good for the first few seconds then it's all over...

[Pete S]

i agree never wanted to listen to dance to or own any of those records i always thought i would leave that kind of stuff to my mum and dad where it seemed to be much more suitable.

Ah so now we can't like our Mom and Dad's music either. My Mom loved Elvis, so I consequently got to play those records from the earliest age, and the Teddy Bears, Everly Brothers, Beatles, Rolling Stones, Bobby Darin all those people...I'm really glad I did too, I grew up listening to great music. People like Carol Deene, Maureen Evans, Marion Ryan, yes they made middle of the road music for 'squares' but almost all of these girl singers have one or two absolute gems in their repertoire. You just have to scratch the surface and lose the preconceptions.

If it's not cool for kids to like music that their parents owned - it looks as if our own kids will find Lou Pride and The Impressions about as relevant as Justin Timberlake and One Direction.

[slimharpo]

Who said there was any soul in it? You're looking for something that's not there and doesn't need to be there. You don't have to look for 'soul' in every record otherwise your horizons wouldn't be very broad at all. It's just a great record.

I did write 'no soulfoul or even beat merit' Pete

[Pete S]

I did write 'no soulfoul or even beat merit' Pete

I that case, it's pointless carrying on the discussion. These artists recorded hundreds and hundreds of tracks but in one swoop you dismiss everything they ever recorded.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Pete S

[Tezza]

Have we mentioned Dusty anywhere on this thread ??

[Pete S]

Have we mentioned Dusty anywhere on this thread ??

Don't bother, started off singing in a folk trio, with those influences she must be rubbish as well.

[Tezza]

Don't bother, started off singing in a folk trio, with those influences she must be rubbish as well.

True Pete. Don't know what came over me - I'll get back to my Lonnie Donnigan CD !!

[slimharpo]

I that case, it's pointless carrying on the discussion. These artists recorded hundreds and hundreds of tracks but in one swoop you dismiss everything they ever recorded.

Not quite Pete, I agree with Ric Tic, most made some nice tuneful pop records that were OK for my Mam & Dad to tap their feet to.

[Tezza]

Not quite Pete, I agree with Ric Tic, most made some nice tuneful pop records that were OK for my Mam & Dad to tap their feet to.

My Mum used to Tap her feet to Jackie Wilson and Sam Cooke !! Lots of sweeping statements being made with no qualifiers.

So now we must dismiss stuff because they are White, British and liked by your Parents ??

Edited February 15, 2013 by Tezza

[slimharpo]

My Mum used to Tap her feet to Jackie Wilson and Sam Cooke !! Lots of sweeping statements being made with no qualifiers.

So now we must dismiss stuff because they are White, British and liked by your Parents ??

Hi. I said they were nice tuneful pop records. How is that dismissive? Also, look at my earlier post, I said 'colour' is not an issue.

[Tezza]

Dismissive in that very statement. " Hi. I said they were nice tuneful pop records " - Not taking each record on its merits we immediately presume, looking at the wording, that they are all nice tuneful pop records.

The colour thing was brought up by Jim not yourself. British seems to be a big no no though.

[Guest SteveJohnston]

Elkie Brooks cover of the great Etta James track Something got a hold of me scrams soul imo & her cover of the Temps TWYDTTYD is very nice indeed but then I like all Elkie Brooks 60's recordings.

https://youtu.be/k-xdfym2ZDA

[Guest Brooky]

Don't like the first (Elkie Brooks) tune at all. However, that 'Nothing left to do but Cry'........is the bizz!!!!

It reminds me of George Freeman's 'Down and Out'...just a little. Great orchestral backing........yep...does it for me....

[Mike]

seems a underlying theme with these pop artists mentioned is that mostly their "cover" versions are streets ahead of their straight forward releases

which does sort of fit in with slims words about "reference" etc and then does open the door to the question, were they all just a quick attempt to cash in ?

[Pete S]

seems a underlying theme with these pop artists mentioned is that mostly their "cover" versions are streets ahead of their straight forward releases

which does sort of fit in with slims words about "reference" etc and then does open the door to the question, were they all just a quick attempt to cash in ?

Probably, in most cases - but they only got to sing and record what their management selected for them, there are countless tales of artists giving interviews and saying they hated the stuff they were made to record. But when a hot US hit song made it's way to the UK, there was a fight on the buy the publishing by the management companies who wanted their artist to get on it first. They reckon "You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin" was issued in the UK before The Righteous Brothers version!

[Tezza]

seems a underlying theme with these pop artists mentioned is that mostly their "cover" versions are streets ahead of their straight forward releases

which does sort of fit in with slims words about "reference" etc and then does open the door to the question, were they all just a quick attempt to cash in ?

Undoubtedly they were mostly an opportunity to cash in on a trend. That's where some of the, shall we say, less acceptable attempts were born. Despite that though some artists/companies with a little integrity did covers as they loved the music and not just as a quick buck generator. It is done by so many others in different genres yet not really spurned. How many Elvis, Beatles, Stones, Dylan covers are out there but seem to be accepted readily.

But that is taking us away from the idea of the tread which isn't talking about generalisms but the quality that does lie within.

[Mike]

Undoubtedly they were mostly an opportunity to cash in on a trend. That's where some of the, shall we say, less acceptable attempts were born. Despite that though some artists/companies with a little integrity did covers as they loved the music and not just as a quick buck generator. It is done by so many others in different genres yet not really spurned. How many Elvis, Beatles, Stones, Dylan covers are out there but seem to be accepted readily.

But that is taking us away from the idea of the tread which isn't talking about generalisms but the quality that does lie within.

thanks but there's really no real need for you to point out you own personal view of the "idea of the thread"

[Tezza]

thanks but there's really no real need for you to point out you own personal view of the "idea of the thread"

Standing in a corner with my head hanging - Lol !

Point taken Mike

[jocko]

Although the particular record Pete talks of isn't one of my favs ( entitled, as we are all, to his opinion ), Black Origin ?? Cannot believe that Colour has been brought into this. Yes its predominantly a Soul Site but how many White Origin Soul Records are out there. We have a thread running on here asking for peoples fav 'White' Soul Artists/Records.

Didn't realise Soul was protected by some invisible semi permeable membrane ??

Okay then, give me 3 great white origin soul records (not Northern Soul as the other thread) and then I might understand wtf you actually mean by that somewhat strange and frankly contradictory statement.

The fact you see no link to Soul music and skin colour suggests history is not your strongpoint. However it becomes a little tiresome when numpties (word of the week) assume that when a soul fan complains about lack of soul in music he is so stupid he only judges by skin colour.

I find Eddie Hinton and Bobby Womack equally great soul singers with Womack winning due to more great performances.

Google and learn something.

If you mean Northern then say so and I'll retire to my musically prejudiced heaven.

[Grumpyfella]

not northern/soul but elkie related.......wonder where moodymann heard the elkie brooks track to sample...perhaps he felt it had something... was bit shocked to find out it was elkie brooks...but hey as a house record it works

Edited February 15, 2013 by grumpyfella

[jocko]

not northern/soul but elkie related.......wonder where moodymann heard the elkie brooks track to sample...perhaps he felt it had something... was bit shocked to find out it was elkie brooks...but hey as a house record it works

Phil how can you suggest Moodyman has no connection with Soul, you know better! :-))

[Benji]

There is an American original of the second track Barry, by the great Merry Clayton no less. One of the great beat ballads in my humble opinion.

This is awesome, thanks!

[Carty]

love elkie brooks version of nothing left to cry, very soulful, couple of points, elkie brooks( elaine bookbinder ) is actually from broughton park in salford, not irlams o th height .broughton park is a mainly jewish enclave about a mile and a half from manchester town centre ,still manchesters most exclusive inner city area . her family still run the bookbinders nightclub in the town centre,( over 40s pick up joint so i am told) the skin colour of the artist is a strange one, i listen to whatever music i like regardless of skin colour. , some of the most soulful records ever made have been by white artists, timi yuro, itll never be over for me springs immediately to mind, HOWEVER, and i know this is kind of strange but feel there will be others out there that will identify with it, i think i would like the timi yuro record more if i thought she was black , its perverse, i,m not trying to defend this stance in any way, it dosent even make any sense to me but there you go .

[Grumpyfella]

Phil how can you suggest Moodyman has no connection with Soul, you know better! :-))

Yep I know he has tons of soul.... i should have worded that better! Doh! Hope you keeping well. :-)

[Guest julesp1905]

Elkie Did do Modern

https://youtu.be/vfP0CBTlyaU

[Tezza]

Okay then, give me 3 great white origin soul records (not Northern Soul as the other thread) and then I might understand wtf you actually mean by that somewhat strange and frankly contradictory statement.

The fact you see no link to Soul music and skin colour suggests history is not your strongpoint. However it becomes a little tiresome when numpties (word of the week) assume that when a soul fan complains about lack of soul in music he is so stupid he only judges by skin colour.

I find Eddie Hinton and Bobby Womack equally great soul singers with Womack winning due to more great performances.

Google and learn something.

If you mean Northern then say so and I'll retire to my musically prejudiced heaven.

Awesome statement !!

As you can see I didn't bring up the subject or mention 'great'. Didn't tie it down to a specific time or genre either. Interpretation is a wonderful thing.

Have you a spare seat in your prejudiced heaven or are there specific criteria you must adhere to before membership is permitted.

Wherever your Soul takes you this weekend have a fabulous time And remember, not everything on Google is true XX

[jocko]

Awesome statement !!

As you can see I didn't bring up the subject or mention 'great'. Didn't tie it down to a specific time or genre either. Interpretation is a wonderful thing.

Have you a spare seat in your prejudiced heaven or are there specific criteria you must adhere to before membership is permitted.

Wherever your Soul takes you this weekend have a fabulous time And remember, not everything on Google is true XX

You said "but how many White Origin Soul Records are out there" that is a specific genre statement if ever I saw one, so to rephrase my question without my stupid assumption we were only talking about good music then just give me 3 white origin soul records, your exact words, and then I can understand what you mean and why you do not think colour of skin is any way relevant to soul music..

And I said musically prejudiced, of which I am very happy, as I then only really want to talk about the good stuff not the crap of any other origin, wtf that means, at least explain that phase to me and then maybe I can understand where you are coming from

[Tezza]

You said "but how many White Origin Soul Records are out there" that is a specific genre statement if ever I saw one, so to rephrase my question without my stupid assumption we were only talking about good music then just give me 3 white origin soul records, your exact words, and then I can understand what you mean and why you do not think colour of skin is any way relevant to soul music..

And I said musically prejudiced, of which I am very happy, as I then only really want to talk about the good stuff not the crap of any other origin, wtf that means, at least explain that phase to me and then maybe I can understand where you are coming from

Quite an aggressive stance ?

I do not have to qualify anything to anybody. If you know your History, as you say, then you will be able to answer it yourself. We are not talking specifics or just the good stuff. All artists, whoever they are, produce some rubbish and amongst it we find a little piece of heaven. Motown is a prime example - Because it's Motown doesn't mean it's great !

As for Genre, there are many genres of Soul music and I am not tying it down to a specific wether it be old, new, Northern, anything.

Not going to get into an I am right and you are wrong type of argument.

Difficult enough to put into words exactly what one is trying to say and it will always get misinterpreted.

I, for example, don't understand what you are asking ? Or your use of 'wtf'. Don't like the use of abusive language despite it being hidden within a TLA.

Take care and have a great day.