Unidentified 60S Pop Girl-Group Sound - The Apollas?

[Amsterdam Russ]

I picked up a white label test pressing of a classic girl group stomper recently. Apparently the copy came from the collection of a New York dj from the 60s. On the flip is the song in the sound clip.

It's not the B side of the actual 45 release, and it's not in the catalogue of the group. It doesn't sound anything like the group on the A side, so I'm wondering if for promo purposes each side was given over to a different group.

It's got that kitsch 60s go-go girl group sound of the type that could have been written for a TV programme or a low budget film from the 60s. It could have been a major pop hit for all I know.

Anyone know who this song is by?

https://soundcloud.com/harveysoulfinger/unknown-60s-girl-group-tap-tap

Title of post edited to reflect addition of the info below.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Russell Gilbert

[Amsterdam Russ]

One thing that puzzled me about this song - as well as whether it's the same group on the A side of the dis - is the lyrics. The opening words of 'Tap, tap, 123' are straightforward, but I couldn't make sense of what they said straight after.

After trying variations of what I thought they might be singing into Google - "ring/bring Olivio/Olivia", for example - I got lucky and stumbled upon this at Wikipedia...

Ringolevio (also spelled ringalevio or ring-a-levio) is a children's game which may be played anywhere but which originates in the teeming streets of New York City, and is known to have been played there at least as far back as before World War I. It is one of the many variations of tag. It requires close team work and near-military strategy. In some quarters this game is known as Manhunt which is really another game with different rules. In Canada, this game is known as Relievio. In Boston and Ireland in the 1960s, it was also called Relievio and is mentioned in Roddy Doyle's Booker prize-winning novel Paddy Clarke Ha Ha Ha and Bill O'Reilly's book, A Bold Fresh Piece of Humanity.

Emmett Grogan wrote a book called Ringolevio, which was published in 1972. Echoing the memories of hundreds of thousands who grew up in the neighborhoods of New York, Grogan wrote: "It's a game. A game played on the streets of New York, for as long as anyone can remember. It is called Ringolevio, and the rules are simple. There are two sides, each with the same number of players. There are no time limits, no intermissions, no substitutes and no weapons allowed. There are two jails. There is one objective." The first chapter of this autobiography describes a particularly serious game of ringolevio played by Grogan and his gang.

Now the song makes complete sense, especially as the opening lines after the introductory chorus is "Sweet darling, you've been tagged / At last I've got you trapped".

If, as was told to me, the disc came out of the collection of a New York radio DJ, and that the song here didn't make it on to the actual 45 release with the flipside, it makes sense that maybe it was sent to the DJ in order to get feedback on whether the songs had what it takes to sell well commercially, and be worthy of the air play needed to get those sales.

It may be that the A side received positive feedback, and got a release, whilst the B side (the song above) was considered to be not good enough and so was replaced with the song that appears on the actual 45.

Whatever, it seems fairly obvious that any song about a game played primarily in New York could only have local appeal. The rest of the country wouldn't have a clue what the lyrics meant or what the song was about.

What is the "classic girl group stomper" on the other side of the white labelled disc? It's The Apollas singing Mr Creator.

Is the poppy number in the sound clip also by The Apollas? Can't be sure; it certainly hard to hear the same voices that feature on Mr Creator. Perhaps WB thought about giving the girls a musical make-over and turn them into more of a pop act rather than a soul group. Perhaps it's a different group all together, but it would be nice to think that is in fact The Apollas, no matter how poppy the song sounds.

[The Yank]

Isn't there an unreleased version of "Mr. Creator" by Candy and the Kisses ?

[Amsterdam Russ]

Yup...

[The Yank]

Thanks for posting- like this version a lot.

[Robbk]

The group singing "Ring-A-Leevio" is clearly not The Apollas. I remember hearing the song "Ring-A-Leevio" on the radio during my travels (maybe to The East Coast). I grew up in Winnipeg and Chicago, and I knew that game. It wasn't played just in New York. And anyone who watched American films from the 1930s through 1950s would know about that game. I'm sure it was played from Washington, DC through Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York, Connecticut and Boston. It was probably played in Pittsburgh, Buffalo, the Ohio cities and Detroit, as well. I'd bet that girls group song, "Ring-A-Leevio" was released. It may not have been a hit, but probably sold some. It surely sounds very familiar.

[Guest Soulfood33]

maybe it's The Toreadors - Ring a leevio part 1 & 2 - Pawn 1202 released 1963

[Chris L]

I picked up a white label test pressing of a classic girl group stomper recently. Apparently the copy came from the collection of a New York dj from the 60s. On the flip is the song in the sound clip. It's not the B side of the actual 45 release, and it's not in the catalogue of the group. It doesn't sound anything like the group on the A side, so I'm wondering if for promo purposes each side was given over to a different group. It's got that kitsch 60s go-go girl group sound of the type that could have been written for a TV programme or a low budget film from the 60s. It could have been a major pop hit for all I know. Anyone know who this song is by? https://soundcloud.com/harveysoulfinger/unknown-60s-girl-group-tap-tap Title of post edited to reflect addition of the info below.

Not the Apollas, crappy song................

[Guest Garry Huxley]

There is a rocker on you tube.

Jannis martin, ring a leevio, Released as the three jays.

Cant find any other variation posted.

Garry

[Benji]

Yup...

The alt version is not Candy & The Kisses, even tho it's credited to them on the withdrawn Kent release. It's Val Simpson's demo take.

[pikeys dog]

We used to play this game but it was called Delavio in most parts of Sheffield.

[Amsterdam Russ]

The group singing "Ring-A-Leevio" is clearly not The Apollas. I remember hearing the song "Ring-A-Leevio" on the radio during my travels (maybe to The East Coast). I grew up in Winnipeg and Chicago, and I knew that game. It wasn't played just in New York. And anyone who watched American films from the 1930s through 1950s would know about that game. I'm sure it was played from Washington, DC through Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York, Connecticut and Boston. It was probably played in Pittsburgh, Buffalo, the Ohio cities and Detroit, as well. I'd bet that girls group song, "Ring-A-Leevio" was released. It may not have been a hit, but probably sold some. It surely sounds very familiar.

maybe it's The Toreadors - Ring a leevio part 1 & 2 - Pawn 1202 released 1963

There is a rocker on you tube.

Jannis martin, ring a leevio, Released as the three jays.

Cant find any other variation posted.

Garry

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I've found out that there's another Ringolevio/Ring-A-Leevio song - from Dale Brooks. Maybe there are others.

Can anyone supply sound files or confirm if the track on the flip to Mr Creator is one of these versions?

What's interesting here is that the versions of the Ringolevio song are early 60s, whereas Mr Creator is what, 1967? Would WB normally have pressed up a few white label copies of a 45, circulate them to radio DJs, but include a 4/5 year old song on one side? Anyone got others like this?

Edited February 15, 2013 by Russell Gilbert

[Cover-up]

Are you sure it's a test pressing and not an acetate?

[Amsterdam Russ]

Definitely not an acetate. Out of interest, why do you ask?

[Robbk]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I've found out that there's another Ringolevio/Ring-A-Leevio song - from Dale Brooks. Maybe there are others.

Can anyone supply sound files or confirm if the track on the flip to Mr Creator is one of these versions?

What's interesting here is that the versions of the Ringolevio song are early 60s, whereas Mr Creator is what, 1967? Would WB normally have pressed up a few white label copies of a 45, circulate them to radio DJs, but include a 4/5 year old song on one side? Anyone got others like this?

That recording of "Ring-A-Leevio" CAN'T have been recorded before 1965, based on its sound. So, it COULDN'T have been the Jannis Martin/3 Jays' version, nor could it be the Dale Brooks version (male vocalist).

The version I remember from the radio was the same song as we heard off the demo, and if not the same exact recording, it was a similarly-styled recording, by a girls Soul group from a similar era (1965-67) (e.g. differing no more from the recording on the demo than Candy & Kisses' version from that of The Apollas).

[Amsterdam Russ]

Can you confirm whether the song is by the male or female Dale Brooks? There appears to be one of each!

[Robbk]

Of course! The same female Dale Brooks who recorded "Am I Glad Now" for Twirl Records! But, she COULDN'T have been the same woman who led on the recording we heard off the demo record. Her voice is way too "Caucasian" and "Pop"-sounding. It is interesting that the song on the Dolphin release is spelt the same as I remember it, and it was a Brill Building song by Gregory Carroll. I'd bet that that was the very same song we hear on the demo, but a much earlier recording (1963 or 1964), while the recording we heard is from 1965 or 1966, and is by a Black Girls group (also from New York-and possibly generated by Carroll trying to release it again, 1 to 3 years later, by different artists). The recording I remember was NOT Dale Brooks' voice, but rather, a Black girls group, sounding similar to (if not exactly the same as) the recording on the demo.

[SLAMMINSOUL]

We played Relievio in Dublin when i was a kid. I asked my old man about it n he said he played the game in Dublin back in the 50's!

Thats mad !

Atb

Clint

[Cover-up]

Definitely not an acetate. Out of interest, why do you ask?

Just asking because it's not uncommon for acetates to have two completely unrelated tracks on each side...

[Amsterdam Russ]

A friend tells me that Dale Brooks - the female singer - recorded some of her 60s output in London, and even gigged in the city of "New Castle"!

 

https://books.google.nl/books?id=YCkEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=%22Dale+Brooks%22+Dolphin&source=bl&ots=xwk6AWO3sm&sig=3zTiOsJGnGLYtgAuH-fVMAiAnrw&hl=de&sa=X&ei=3R8-UcPRI8ev4ATyp4HwAw&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22Dale%20Brooks%22%20Dolphin&f=false

 

The same person also provided me with this link, which provides a bigger insight into the Ring-a-levio game, although strictly from an American perspective.

 

https://dare.wisc.edu/?q=node/146

 

I'm no closer to finding out who's singing this mystery flip to Mr Creator, and I haven't been able to find contact details for Leola Jiles, Billie Barnum or Ella Jamerson. Can anyone assist with this? Perhaps one of them may be able to provide some insight on this.

[boba]

I have a ring-o-leevio 45 by the Toreadors on Pawn [aka the matadors on keith] from 1963. its not related, it's a male group, just dating the dance.

 

EDIT: saw someone suggested it above. the pawn 45 is a male group.

Edited March 14, 2013 by boba

[Amsterdam Russ]

Thanks for helping to rule that one out, Bob.

 

I also learned this week that there's a song called "Ring-a-ling-a-lario". That's by Jimmie Rodgers and so doesn't help in identifying the unknown girl group, although the lyrics do relate to the game.

[Amsterdam Russ]

SOLVED!

 

Just found a soundclip of the Dale Brooks song on eBay and it is indeed her! And it's the same version.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mod-R-B-Garage-Frat-Groover-Dale-Brooks-Ring-A-Leevio-WLP-Promo-45-LISTEN-/230936018507?

 

So, what's it doing back-to-back with The Apollas singing Mr Creator? Did "Ring-a-Leevio" come out much later than thought, or is Mr Creator an earlier recording?

[Amsterdam Russ]

I'm on a roll now...

 

To answer my own question, Mr Creator, although released late 66/early 67, was indeed recorded quite a while earlier. Looking at a scan of the label, I noticed that the catalogue number is J70146, which made me think that it's not a WB number, but one from the Loma label.

 

Sure enough, it is. In fact, the number sequence shows that it was probably recorded at the same session as My Soul Concerto and Sorry Mama (Loma 2053 - July 1966), with all three tracks involving HB Barnum and Dick Glasser.

 

https://www.lomarecords.com/loma2053-apollas.html

 

Mr Creator - J70146

 

My Soul Concerto - J70147

 

Sorry Mama - J70148

 

As sessions usually comprised of four tracks, and we know of three of those, is there one missing from The Apollas' discography?

 

If Mr Creator was from the same session, it would be logical to think that the flip All Sold Out was also cut at the same time. However, the catalogue number for that is JX70091, which is a different session from around the same time (JX70135 & 5 is Dick Jensen & the Imports - Loma 2055 - released Aug 1966).

 

 

So, while the mystery track is now identified, it leaves two questions:

 

1/ What are the Dale Brooks and Apollas tracks (both from different labels and times) doing on the same 45?

2/ Presuming a four track session (1/ Mr Creator, 2/ My Soul Concerto, and 3/ Sorry Mama), what was the fourth track recorded by the Apollas?

 

Is J70145 or J70149 one of their other WB releases?

 

 

[Guest Dave Turner]

Russell, you can rule out J-70145. According to the Loma page on Soulsides J-70145 is The Marvellos "Why Do You Hurt The One That Loves You" (Loma 2061)

 

https://www.soulsides.co.uk/los_angeles/LOMA.htm

Edited March 14, 2013 by Dave Turner

[Amsterdam Russ]

Russell, you can rule out J-70145. According to the Loma page on Soulsides J-70145 is The Marvellos "Why Do You Hurt The One That Loves You" (Loma 2061)

 

https://www.soulsides.co.uk/los_angeles/LOMA.htm

D'oh! Thanks for that. Should have looked more closely on my own site first