Non-Soul Ns Classics

[MikeHinNewJersey]

Melinda Marx - What

[Pete S]

Rufus Lumley - 'I'm Standing' - Rock'n'Rollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[manus]

Very suprised to see East Coast Connnection and James Lewis & Case of Tyme mentioned as non Soul classics both would fall very definitely under the Soul/Funk umbrella in my opinion.

Cheers

Manus

[Geeselad]

Very suprised to see East Coast Connnection and James Lewis & Case of Tyme mentioned as non Soul classics both would fall very definitely under the Soul/Funk umbrella in my opinion.

Cheers

Manus

east coast yeah, manifesto I love but its black rock isnt it? even though they might actually be white, lol.

[Geeselad]

Pop novelty latin records Never Learnt To Dance Harvey Averne,Sugar-Isonics,Use It Before You Lose It,Hey Sister etc etc.

methinks thou dust talk shite my freind,imho of course. never heard of brown eyed soul?

[manus]

east coast yeah, manifesto I love but its black rock isnt it? even though they might actually be white, lol.

No I think they're black - there's a great Soul ballad on the flip of manifesto. I take the rock point but I would call it street funk with a soulful black vocal

Cheers

Manus

[Pete S]

No I think they're black - there's a great Soul ballad on the flip of manifesto. I take the rock point but I would call it street funk with a soulful black vocal

Cheers

Manus

I'd just call it out and out Northern Soul, at least it used to be until people decided everything had to be pigeonholed. Awesome record, big reminder of early days on the scene and those days when I could fling myself around like a gymnast to it.

[Wiggyflat]

Geeselad.....i like bugaloo latin soul etc but it is novelty hispanic pop music.There is nowhere on this thread where you have to stipulate colour...just non soul tracks.Most of the bugaloo artists were straight ahead afro cuban musicians who had been in the big mambo bands Tito Puente Rodriguez Machito etc and were releasing these novelty 45s on the back of the Motown explosion.Bad Breath Its A Good. good Feeling,El Pito are all novelty dance recotds....now Joe Baatan Ordinary Guy is a different matter altogether.You are talking shite...

[manus]

I'd just call it out and out Northern Soul, at least it used to be until people decided everything had to be pigeonholed. Awesome record, big reminder of early days on the scene and those days when I could fling myself around like a gymnast to it.

Call it what you want I couldn't care less - I was just a bit suprised to see it being listed on this thread as non Soul. Manifesto followed by Joe Hicks and then Lou Pride heart stopping stuff.

[Guest micksoul]

????..rock track..never in a million years..

I did say almost ... youve got to admit that guitar is very upfront for a soul record

[Pete S]

Call it what you want I couldn't care less - I was just a bit suprised to see it being listed on this thread as non Soul. Manifesto followed by Joe Hicks and then Lou Pride heart stopping stuff.

I was agreeing with you.

[Guest micksoul]

Could the influence be the fact that Nolan (NF) is married to Candice Zappa.... sister to the late Frank Zappa of legendary proportions on the folk / rock scene :D

Steve

I didnt know that Steve , there were so many things going on musically at the end of the 60s that different genres were bound to cross over

[manus]

I was agreeing with you.

Sorry Pete I misunderstood your post

I'm a bit tetchy at the minute - two weeks into wearing a sling morning , noon and night after a hefty shoulder op and another six weeks to go.

I nearly described Manifesto as jazz influenced , street funk with a soulful black vocal but dropped the jazz influenced bit as I couldn't see the screen for pigeon feathers lol

Cheers

Manus

[Pete S]

Sorry Pete I misunderstood your post

I'm a bit tetchy at the minute - two weeks into wearing a sling morning , noon and night after a hefty shoulder op and another six weeks to go.

I nearly described Manifesto as jazz influenced , street funk with a soulful black vocal but dropped the jazz influenced bit as I couldn't see the screen for pigeon feathers lol

Cheers

Manus

[SHEFFSOUL]

I did say almost ... youve got to admit that guitar is very upfront for a soul record

played almost as a new release..yeah a modern sound (for the time as opposed to trad torch sounds) but i can only hear soul..

[Geeselad]

No I think they're black - there's a great Soul ballad on the flip of manifesto. I take the rock point but I would call it street funk with a soulful black vocal

Cheers

Manus

fair enough, there were a bunch of bands in the late 6ts doing that rock soul fusion anyway.

[Geeselad]

Geeselad.....i like bugaloo latin soul etc but it is novelty hispanic pop music.There is nowhere on this thread where you have to stipulate colour...just non soul tracks.Most of the bugaloo artists were straight ahead afro cuban musicians who had been in the big mambo bands Tito Puente Rodriguez Machito etc and were releasing these novelty 45s on the back of the Motown explosion.Bad Breath Its A Good. good Feeling,El Pito are all novelty dance recotds....now Joe Baatan Ordinary Guy is a different matter altogether.You are talking shite...

thanks for the clarifaction, not sure I'd agree with all your definitions and whats wrong with novelty anyway? that just mean they had a gimmick to help sell there pop records, a bit like, 'cool off' ;philly dog around the world 'the duck' ronnie and robyn and a host of other credible ns tunes.

[Tiberius]

Could be a massive thread..........depending where an individual draws the line as to what is "soul" and also what constitutes a "classic". Anyhow, how about Tony Galla - In Love, or Larry Allen - Can't We Talk It Over. Deffo Northern, but soul....or garage....or pop.....????

[Jordirip]

Very suprised to see East Coast Connnection and James Lewis & Case of Tyme mentioned as non Soul classics both would fall very definitely under the Soul/Funk umbrella in my opinion.

Cheers

Manus

and Al Foster Band for me too.

[Jordirip]

I used to love this one. Jades.

[Barry]

So we're suckers for UK Pop, Latin Pop, Novelty Dance, Instrumentals, Themes, Rock 'n' Roll, Garage, Psyche, Rock....and Soul.

[Pete S]

I used to love this one. Jades.

You've lost me on this one, what's "non-Northern" about this one? You can't get much more hardcore Northern Soul than this.

[Barry]

'Non- Soul' per se was the question Pete, all the above are Northern.

[Pete S]

'Non- Soul' per se was the question Pete, all the above are Northern.

The Jades is soul though...

[Jordirip]

The Jades is soul though...

Sounds like garage to me. Agree, it's Northern, but soul....not to these ears.

[Barry]

The Jades is soul though...

I didn't say it was or wasn't, just reminding you of the thread title mate.

[Pete S]

Sounds like garage to me. Agree, it's Northern, but soul....not to these ears.

Sounds like a black group to me...I must have heard this a million times but never once thought "hmm this sounds like a garage record".

Funny how we all interpret music differently.

(Not being sarcy by the way)

[Back Street Blue]

I think the vocals in the jades "I'm where its at" are soulful and that NF Porter's "keep on keeping on" gets in the soulful category a la Norman Whitfield Temptations stuff.

Depends on the listener's ear I suppose and then the subjective bigger question that we are trying to avoid kicks in.

[Cunnie]

End of the day the Northern scene just cherry picks it's music from other music genre's. The majority of it is dance-able 60's Soul but occasionally other stuff slips through the net if it sounds right for the dancefloor be it Pop, Rock, Country, Jazz etc.

Apart from a very few exceptions it's the only music scene that does this & also the only music scene that you cannot actually make music for (again with a very few exceptions).

Bit like Pikey's really as we just take what we want regardless

[MikeHinNewJersey]

So we're suckers for UK Pop, Latin Pop, Novelty Dance, Instrumentals, Themes, Rock 'n' Roll, Garage, Psyche, Rock....and Soul.

Yes, we're suckers for Northern Soul.....hehehe

[Guest Garry Huxley]

mystic moods, astral trip, gotta be trippin to dance to it

ted cassidy the lurch, this must have been a joke

kenney rogers, what condition ???????????????????? but i liked it at the time

and all those motown resings with what sounds like a poor disco beat backing track

this thread is gonna run for about a year

Garry

[Guest MrC]

I loved Astral Trip at the time it was played....

[manus]

Bit like Pikey's really as we just take what we want regardless

Is this comment really necessary ? - I thought this page was the All about Soul page not Freebasing

Edited February 14, 2013 by manus

[Pete S]

I loved Astral Trip at the time it was played....

It really was a monster for a short time, that last Casino tape I posted up, was played by 2 dj's in consecutive spots

[KevH]

You've lost me on this one, what's "non-Northern" about this one? You can't get much more hardcore Northern Soul than this.

On the Jades,its the intro and the break at 1.36 that lifts it to NS classic status.That and the pace of the record.

Vocally i think they sound like white band,nothing wrong with that.The third break at 1.36 drops into a guitar break, which for me gives it away as on the "garage" side.

Edited February 14, 2013 by KevH

[Guest Dave Turner]

At a time and place I used to love it. One of them that had to belting outta big speakers at 4am whilst one was off their box

Still like it in a weird kinda way or is it just memories clouding my judgement.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Dave Turner

[Guest Garry Huxley]

It really was a monster for a short time, that last Casino tape I posted up, was played by 2 dj's in consecutive spots

I found that common, one nite mid 70's heard purple haze played 3 times in big room and once mr m's

[Pete S]

At a time and place I used to love it. One of them that had to belting outta big speakers at 4am whilst one was off their box

Still like it in a weird kinda way or is it just memories clouding my judgement.

I like it as well, used to love dancing to this

[Guest MrC]

I like it as well, used to love dancing to this

What is it? I cant see videos at work

[Garethx]

We have no conclusive evidence but I've always put two and two together (possibly making five) that Willie Wade was in The Jades. To me he sounds black on his Nite Life 45.

Others have disagreed with me, but there's no doubt his vocal on "When Push Comes To Shove" is strongly influenced by singers like Little Anthony and Timothy Wilson: a feather-light but still clearly gospel-influenced falsetto.

Edited March 29, 2020 by Garethx

[Sebastian]

We have no conclusive evidence but I've always put two and two together (possibly making five) that Willie Wade was in The Jades. To me he sounds black on his Nite Life 45.

"I'm Where It's At" is a very different kind of record, but New Orleans R&B has always been a world where barriers of racial identity are blurred, perhaps more than anywhere else in the US.

Don't know if this will clear things up or confuse things even more... but check out this YouTube page:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp1VUid5Ppc

It is the flipside to The Jades "I'm Where It's At" called "Mother's Only Daughter".

A user called "MrMrsSalBanuelos" has commented:

"This song was made by my dad's band called the Jades. They were from Wilmington, CA. Robert Munoz is singing, my dad played guitar."

Edited February 14, 2013 by Sebastian

[Guest Dave Turner]

Don't know if this will clear things up or confuse things even more... but check out this YouTube page:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp1VUid5Ppc

It is the flipside to The Jades "I'm Where It's At" called "Mother's Only Daughter".

A user called "MrMrsSalBanuelos" has commented:

"This song was made by my dad's band called the Jades. They were from Wilmington, CA. Robert Munoz is singing, my dad played guitar."

Not disputing what the Youtube poster was saying, she may be correct but there were a few groups called The Jades. Possibly she's getting confused if she doesn't relaise there were more than one Jades.

I'm presuming The Jades "Lucky Fellow" on Mode and The Jades on Nite Life being one and the same group, both being New Orleans labels. The Jades on Mode (and I'm presuming Nite Life as well) were a trio with Hank Sample on lead.

Also in New Orleans and prior to The Jades were Emmet & the Jades on Rustone which packed up in '62. I'm not sure if The Jades were a continuation of Emmet & the Jades

Edited February 14, 2013 by Dave Turner

[Garethx]

Interesting Sebastian. That would suggest these Jades are or are related to the groups who had releases on Californian labels.

Edited March 29, 2020 by Garethx

[Sebastian]

I can find no indications at all that NITE LIFE was a label from New Orleans or Louisiana.

In fact, everything points to the label being from Los Angeles/California.

NITE LIFE 70000 - California Dreamers - We Belong Together / One Night Stand

NITE LIFE 70001 - Willie Wade - When Push Comes To Shove / Come Into My World

NITE LIFE 70002 - The Jades - I'm Where It's At / Mother's Only Daughter

NITE LIFE 70003 - The Night People - They Don't See You / The Shadow Is My Soul

NITE LIFE 70004 - The Dept. Of Sanitation - Just A Good Show / Don't Ever Leave Me

Night People were definitely from Los Angeles. California Dreamers were supposedly from California. And taking the YouTube comments on board from the daughter of the guitarist of The Jades... they were also from Wilmington in California.

How Willie Wade fits into all of this I don't know. Does anyone have a scan of the 45 on MODE?

Edited February 14, 2013 by Sebastian

[Garethx]

Jades on Mode:

no mention of any common names with the Nite Life 45s.

[Sebastian]

The NITE LIFE label was definitely from Los Angeles.

Just found this in an issue of Billboard from 18 June 1966:

Edited February 14, 2013 by Sebastian

[Garethx]

Cheers Sebastian. Very interesting.

[Guest Dave Turner]

Yeah, thanks. I'd always thought Nite Life was New Orleans, seems like I'm mistaken. Interestingly "Home of the Groove" which is about New Orleans recordings states that the (New Orleans) The Jades only had one recording and that being the Mode 45

Later in the decade, Sample was singing in a vocal trio, the Jades, who recorded one single, “Lucky Fellow” b/w “And Now”, produced/arranged by Wardell, and released on the Mode label (#503). The top side was a great soul-pop dancer with Sample on lead vocal, but the record went down the hole, that is, the smoking crater where the busy local record business had once been. Although Wardell seems to have been in charge of most of the Mode sessions, Sir Shambling notes that Sample himself produced one record, Mode 504, “You’re Using Me” / “Can’t Stay Away” by the Fabulettes, and likely had a financial interest in the label. As I related before in the series when discussing the Barons, Ulis Gaines, a partner in Nola and co-owner of Gatur with Willie Tee, has been identified as the principal owner of Mode. If Sample did have a piece of the action, it was likely kept under wraps due to his working for a radio station; yet, the connection did not seem to have benefitted any of the Mode releases, none of which were commercially successful.

After Mode closed down in fairly short order, the Jades did some other session work for the Scram label with Eddie Bo producing, but nothing was issued; and the group broke up by the end of the decade. From there, Sample went solo, becoming a part of Elijah Walker’s stable of singers alligned with Pelican Productions, which put him on track for his sessions at Malaco. The other two members of the Jades, Alvin Turner and Arthur Stewart, went on to form the Enticers, a vocal group also managed by Walker. But more about them a bit later.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Dave Turner

[Sebastian]

I think we can rule out that Willie Wade on NITE LIFE was a member of the New Orleans group that recorded on MODE.

The Dept. Of Sanitation 45 on NITE LIFE is produced by "Wilder Brothers" so the Billboard article definitely refers to this NITE LIFE label.

And another thing: both sides of the Willie Wade 45 on NITE LIFE is co-written by a "Warner Weidler" and guess what - George and Walter Wilder who started the NITE LIFE label according to the Billboard article has got a brother named Warner Wilder. It wouldn't surprise me if this actually is "Warner Weidler". It all adds up.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Sebastian

[Garethx]

 

For me the classic example of 'non-soul in any sense' is Babe Ruth. Other may disagree with me but I think its 'disco beat' is accidental rather than deliberate.

Edited March 29, 2020 by Garethx