Are Younger Soul D.j's Important?

[Guest]

Following on from my previous thread of Up & Coming D.J's, are younger SOUL d.j's important??

[Guest dundeedavie]

Following on from my previous thread of Up & Coming D.J's, are younger SOUL d.j's important??

i don't understand the question ... are you asking is it important for younger dj's to come through ?

if so ..yes

Edited May 1, 2006 by dundeedavie

[John Al]

i don't understand the question ... are you asking is it important for younger dj's to come through ?

if so ..yes

Or perhaps you mean that we should all get younger? If so - still yes!

Edited May 1, 2006 by John Alden

[Chalky]

They are the scenes future IF they are going to be there in the future. What happens if

a career gets in the way or when/if they have kids?

Like I said before it's what a Dj has to offer not his or her age.

[Guest]

Following on from my previous thread of Up & Coming D.J's, are younger SOUL d.j's important??

WHAT AGE DO YOU CLASS AS YOUNG.

[Winnie :-)]

Following on from my previous thread of Up & Coming D.J's, are younger SOUL d.j's important??

==============

Yes, but then again so are old SOUL DJs. I read your previous thread, what actual difference would being younger or older make to a soul night/nighter?

Winnie:-)

[pikeys dog]

Nowhere near as important as getting some younger 'punters' in....

Plenty of the oldguard are 'kippering it' without anyone to replace them

[Simon T]

Following on from my previous thread of Up & Coming D.J's, are younger SOUL d.j's important??

Aren't DJ's interlinked to whatever time period of soul that they'll be playing, otherwise it's just reinventing the wheel. It's not as though you need to be particularly nibble to get the next record out and on the decks is it? (Even Don Ray gives you 1:46 to perform the task!) Surley the real problem is that there hasn't been any new scenes / drugs for the youngsters to get stuck into in the last 20+ years (pschedelia / acid northern / amphetamine rave / E) They should be encouraged not to get involved in a scene with people old enough to be their parents e.g their parents!

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

The way forward is when young DJ's can learn all about music from older DJ's but we need some so that when all the old ones can DJ or are not around they carry it on then also pass onto the younger ones to them

[Sweeney]

IMHO this is probably the single fundamental problem with the Rare /Northern Soul Scene as it stands.

It's too bound up with misguided notions of tradition and etiquette and other negative connotations which get in the way of the music.

Why should so called younger DJs have to serve an "apprenticeship"? When I was loosely involved with promoting a night it was usually the younger DJs that provided the thought-provoking and interesting sets.

Maybe the reason they did that was because they weren't weighed down by the tedious baggage of where a record was played first and by whom or if talcum powder was used or whether or not drinks were spilt on the dancefloor.

The entity known as the Rare/Northern Soul Scene is an organic living thing and can't be controlled whether we like it or not. We can't influence where it goes or what shape it takes and topics like this one invariably end up with talk of respect for tradition and ensuring that "young people" coming onto the scene pay proper homage to what's gone before. Why should they? Are we in danger of becoming Teds?

True progress in any endeavour only comes as a result of individuals who are willing to stand up and challenge the prevailing orthodoxy, be they young or otherwise.

Are young DJs important? Yes - but only if they're willing to take risks and move the scene forward.

Edited May 2, 2006 by sweeney

[Winnie :-)]

IMHO this is probably the single fundamental problem with the Rare /Northern Soul Scene as it stands.

It's too bound up with misguided notions of tradition and etiquette and other negative connotations which get in the way of the music.

Why should so called younger DJs have to serve an "apprenticeship"? When I was loosely involved with promoting a night it was usually the younger DJs that provided the thought-provoking and interesting sets.

Maybe the reason they did that was because they weren't weighed down by the tedious baggage of where a record was played first and by whom or if talcum powder was used or whether or not drinks were spilt on the dancefloor.

The entity known as the Rare/Northern Soul Scene is an organic living thing and can't be controlled whether we like it or not. We can't influence where it goes or what shape it takes and topics like this one invariably end up with talk of respect for tradition and ensuring that "young people" coming onto the scene pay proper homage to what's gone before. Why should they? Are we in danger of becoming Teds?

True progress in any endeavour only comes as a result of individuals who are willing to stand up and challenge the prevailing orthodoxy, be they young or otherwise.

Are young DJs important? Yes - but only if they're willing to take risks and move the scene forward.

============

Surely the fundamental issue is whether the scene wants to move forward? You can be as brave as you like as a DJ, young or old, and take risks, but if the crowd isn't willing to come with you, ultimately you'll fail. People still like to dance, and some of the reactivated/newie/ stuff thats played just doesn't have the same zing to it IMO. 5/10 years time when most are too old to dance, DJ's will be able to play what they like cos it will mainly be background music to a more socially orientated event.

Winnie :-)

[Guest Baz]

Surely the fundamental issue is whether the scene wants to move forward? You can be as brave as you like as a DJ, young or old, and take risks, but if the crowd isn't willing to come with you, ultimately you'll fail. People still like to dance, and some of the reactivated/newie/ stuff thats played just doesn't have the same zing to it IMO.

Winnie :-)

Course it does, i has to to survive, ok your typical soul night peoberly want to hear very familiar or catchy records to dance to, but there is plenty of soul nights and nighters offering the chance for forward thinking.

At the end of the day is all down to gaining the crowds trust, once you have that you can play within reason what you like

Aprenterships in DJing herd it all now!

[Sweeney]

============

Surely the fundamental issue is whether the scene wants to move forward? You can be as brave as you like as a DJ, young or old, and take risks, but if the crowd isn't willing to come with you, ultimately you'll fail. People still like to dance, and some of the reactivated/newie/ stuff thats played just doesn't have the same zing to it IMO. 5/10 years time when most are too old to dance, DJ's will be able to play what they like cos it will mainly be background music to a more socially orientated event.

Winnie :-)

You're absolutely correct Winnie. Maybe it doesn't want to progress. Obviously my views are personal ones - I've always thought of the scene (or my view of the scene) as being largely-speaking progressive. I obviously accept if others don't share that view. It's a big enough church for us all to worship at.

I guess all you can hope for at the end of the day is that in our dotage we can all go somewhere to listen to Rare Soul and have a pint and talk cobblers.

[Sunnysoul]

This may probably ruffle a lot of soul die hards in the UK but the fact is that virtually all the "rare soul" scenes OUTSIDE the UK today (eg Norway Germany Australia etc) are driven by considerably younger non UK natives of such countries who have created scenes that do not conform to the traditional strictures of "Northern Soul" as we understand it , that is they tend to create their own mix of rare 60s Soul, Latin , Mod Jazz , 50s Rnb , Modern , Deep Funk even , without traditional prejudices and boundaries .... many on here would say god help us to that and claim that sort of musical mix has nothing to do with Northern Soul but truth is these overseas scenes are almost always uniformly exciting and often have that certain buzz that the Northern scene apparently used to have in the late 60s and 70s and these scenes always go about what they do with a genuine love of soul and soulful music in all its various forms.

What does everyone on here think ?

[Guest]

==============

Yes, but then again so are old SOUL DJs. I read your previous thread, what actual difference would being younger or older make to a soul night/nighter?

Winnie:-)

You're right Winnie not sure why I asked the question really

[Guest claude rains]

This may probably ruffle a lot of soul die hards in the UK but the fact is that virtually all the "rare soul" scenes OUTSIDE the UK today (eg Norway Germany Australia etc) are driven by considerably younger non UK natives of such countries who have created scenes that do not conform to the traditional strictures of "Northern Soul" as we understand it , that is they tend to create their own mix of rare 60s Soul, Latin , Mod Jazz , 50s Rnb , Modern , Deep Funk even , without traditional prejudices and boundaries .... many on here would say god help us to that and claim that sort of musical mix has nothing to do with Northern Soul but truth is these overseas scenes are almost always uniformly exciting and often have that certain buzz that the Northern scene apparently used to have in the late 60s and 70s and these scenes always go about what they do with a genuine love of soul and soulful music in all its various forms.

What does everyone on here think ?

Dj's any age are needed with fresh ideas, talk of young dj's and then look at soul sam and terry jones both have a fantastic ear for a top tune.

[Sanquine]

Wouldn't say young dj's are important, but certainly new dj's are, the ability to bring atmosphere and energy to the dance floor with a strong belief in what they play is IMO more important than age.

Karen

Edited May 3, 2006 by sanquine

[Winnie :-)]

I was just thinking this thread could easily be merged with the "45 min" one.

New/younger DJ dilemma, who does he/she try to impress, the punters or the promoters. Full dance floor to me says 'job well done', but of course it may have been achieved through playing oldies, so whilst the promoter is happy with the dance floor reaction, it may not give the desired kudos amongst his/her fellow promoters. It must be really difficult for new/younger DJs in general because there seems to still be a bit of a closed shop mentality.

No DJ should be told what to play, but just by saying new/younger DJs should be brave we're doing just that. If a younger DJ wants to play oldies why shouldn't he/she, the judgement should really come from the dance floor IMO

Winnie:-)

[Guest Baz]

I was just thinking this thread could easily be merged with the "45 min" one.

New/younger DJ dilemma, who does he/she try to impress, the punters or the promoters. Full dance floor to me says 'job well done', but of course it may have been achieved through playing oldies, so whilst the promoter is happy with the dance floor reaction, it may not give the desired kudos amongst his/her fellow promoters. It must be really difficult for new/younger DJs in general because there seems to still be a bit of a closed shop mentality.

No DJ should be told what to play, but just by saying new/younger DJs should be brave we're doing just that. If a younger DJ wants to play oldies why shouldn't he/she, the judgement should really come from the dance floor IMO

Winnie:-)

Good post Win thats all i can say at the mo Lost is starting

[Chalky]

I was just thinking this thread could easily be merged with the "45 min" one.

New/younger DJ dilemma, who does he/she try to impress, the punters or the promoters. Full dance floor to me says 'job well done', but of course it may have been achieved through playing oldies, so whilst the promoter is happy with the dance floor reaction, it may not give the desired kudos amongst his/her fellow promoters. It must be really difficult for new/younger DJs in general because there seems to still be a bit of a closed shop mentality.

No DJ should be told what to play, but just by saying new/younger DJs should be brave we're doing just that. If a younger DJ wants to play oldies why shouldn't he/she, the judgement should really come from the dance floor IMO

Winnie:-)

Any new or younger DJ has to , IMHO be seen to offer something different and preferably new. If they went down the oldies path, or a set of known records you might as well stick with the tried and trusted dj's some are keen to cast to one side :angry:

[Guest Soultown andy]

Well said winnie,all djs and promoters should be trying to impress the people on the floor without them we have nothing.

[Guest]

Following on from my previous thread of Up & Coming D.J's, are younger SOUL d.j's important??

what age is young ???

what age is not young ???

what price is knowledge and experience ???

a good dj in imho will get the floor moving to thier own personal favorites and not play what the promoter wants, otherwise you might as well put a robot up on the decks,

have faith and trust your music, if the floor is packed you done your job and thats got to be the best way of becoming a known and sought after dj. if thats what your after becoming of course.

your old enough if your good enough.

imho

bearsy.

[Guest Soultown andy]

Any promoter who has to tell his djs what to play is no promoter,any dj who listens is no dj.

[Winnie :-)]

Any new or younger DJ has to , IMHO be seen to offer something different and preferably new. If they went down the oldies path, or a set of known records you might as well stick with the tried and trusted dj's some are keen to cast to one side :angry:

==========

But Chalky you're effectively telling new/younger DJ that he/she will not be accepted onto DJ rosters if they play established sounds. To me that's enforcing the closed shop mentality, and also accepts that promoters can tell any DJ anywhere, what to play. Sorry don't agree with that philosophy.

Winnie;-)

[Guest Gavin Page]

IMHO this is probably the single fundamental problem with the Rare /Northern Soul Scene as it stands.

It's too bound up with misguided notions of tradition and etiquette and other negative connotations which get in the way of the music.

Why should so called younger DJs have to serve an "apprenticeship"? When I was loosely involved with promoting a night it was usually the younger DJs that provided the thought-provoking and interesting sets.

Maybe the reason they did that was because they weren't weighed down by the tedious baggage of where a record was played first and by whom or if talcum powder was used or whether or not drinks were spilt on the dancefloor.

The entity known as the Rare/Northern Soul Scene is an organic living thing and can't be controlled whether we like it or not. We can't influence where it goes or what shape it takes and topics like this one invariably end up with talk of respect for tradition and ensuring that "young people" coming onto the scene pay proper homage to what's gone before. Why should they? Are we in danger of becoming Teds?

True progress in any endeavour only comes as a result of individuals who are willing to stand up and challenge the prevailing orthodoxy, be they young or otherwise.

Are young DJs important? Yes - but only if they're willing to take risks and move the scene forward.

Head Hit Nail, well said sir

[Russ Vickers]

============

Surely the fundamental issue is whether the scene wants to move forward? You can be as brave as you like as a DJ, young or old, and take risks, but if the crowd isn't willing to come with you, ultimately you'll fail. People still like to dance, and some of the reactivated/newie/ stuff thats played just doesn't have the same zing to it IMO. 5/10 years time when most are too old to dance, DJ's will be able to play what they like cos it will mainly be background music to a more socially orientated event.

Winnie :-)

Shoot me now .

Russ

Edited May 2, 2006 by Russ Vickers

[Guest James Trouble]

Chalky you're being a bit of hypocrit. You say that new/young DJs shouldn't play 'established sounds', but in the same breath you are telling them what to play. Listen to yourself man!

Chalky also says young DJs are not important because they 'might have kids' or 'have a career'. You are joking, right? If that is your arguement then 'old' or 'established' DJs are not important because they will be dead or retired in a few years. Sort it out Chalky!

I assume I am put in the bracket of 'new DJ' or 'young DJ'? If I am then my experience is perhaps relevent?

I have found it very hard to play new sounds to the UK northern scene and I have the ability to play whole sets of exclusives and newies but the crowds in the UK seem to run away scared from anything they don't know. IMO on the UK soul scene the punters are more interested in who is playing the record, or who played the record first or where they remember it from. Most punters do not listen to the record played with musical ears, they listen to the record with their head first before their heart.

Hamilton Movement is a good example. After the funk scene had discarded this record after we had had our use out of it it started getting a few spins on the northern scene and every single time it cleared the floor. Totally killed it. Soul Sam and Butch kept on hammering it, but it still cleared the floors. Untill a couple of years later (now 5?) and it is now accepted and fills floors with the same people who used to run away from it like headless chickens because they didn't know it. What does that tell you about the UK soul scene? Will come back to that...

From my experience as a DJ on the UK soul scene I find myself playing two types of sets. The first one is the " I'm going to show them what I've got because it's an 'upfront' crowd" set, and an "I'd best fill the dance floor with some established sounds" sets.

I played (or tried to play) an 'oldies floor filler' set on Sunday at the 50th birthday party event in Bedford. But the 250/300 strong crowd didn't seem to react to anything I threw at them. I put this down to my inability to understand what is an 'oldie' to these people, and I hold my hands up to that. I was unable to connect to this large nothern party crowd. If this is the what most of the northern scene is like then I do not think that a 'young' or 'new' DJ is important at the moment. I am usually very aggressive when I DJ and tend to be antagonistic on the mic when the crowd does not react. This normally works for me and in 10 years of DJing I have never killed a floor, but on Sunday this seemed to make matters worse. This is because I don't think 50 year old people want a young whipper snapper still in his 20s telling them they "should be dancing and if they don't like Soul Incorperated "My Proposal" they are wrong and they should stop making excuses and get themselfs on the floor".

So no, a young DJ is unimportant to these types of people. Like the records they want to hear, they want a Wigan veteran or a stafford hero to be playing them their records, not someone like me. But having said that, I don't think that is what all of the northern soul scene is like, just a part of it, and is not the fault of the crowd on Sunday, it was largely down to my inability to DJ to that type of crowd because I do not have the knowledge of the history that the records hold for those people, how could I?

And then there is my "upfront" (I hate that term but will use it) set which is generally well received, largley because my exclusives are pretty damn good, even if I say so myself There is however the same problem that Hamilton Movement had, it takes years for sounds to establish themselfs, and that is when they are played by people like Butch and Soul Sam and not a "young DJ" like me. This is very frustrating. As a DJ I want to see full dance floors, not headless chickens running back to their tables because they don't know the record being played.

As a point of interest compare this to Europe. In Europe where the crowd has no 'history', no preconception about what 'northern soul' is, or whether a record is 'upfront', 'oldie', rnb, crossover, funk etc etc. They just dance to records because of what they are hearing. If it is good they dance, whether they know it or not, if it is shite they clear the dance floor, whether they know the record or not. This is very satisfying for a DJ, because you can play a set free of the shackles of history and preconception and scene politics. It's great fun and very satisfying.

Now here is a real head scratcher, over the past couple months I had been booked to DJ at two large "upfront" events in the UK and as a result I had turned down quite lucrative bookings in Europe after accepting the UK bookings. At the first of these events I was given a set very early doors described as a 'volunteer' even though I was asked to do it and played infront of a couple of dozon people who didn't dance while I was spinning one offs, new discoveries, c/u and mega rarities instead of DJing in Europe infront of hundreds of young and enthusiastic dancers and getting paid decent money and treated as a bit of a star. And the second promoter forgot he had booked me, but has since put me back on the roster since I explained the situation about me turning down a European booking and he realised his mistake. So perhaps the question is not "are young DJs important?". Perhaps what should be asked is "Are new DJs concidered important by the UK establishment?". In no way am I ungrateful of these bookings and would prefer to be DJing at UK soul events than having to lug my records onto planes, but I am useing it as an illustration of why the question about the importance of new DJs is irrelevent if promoters and the establishment do not concider them so.

I'm also not sure any "young DJs" want to DJ anyway, so is the question relevent? The odd so called "young gun" rooms I have seen are booking DJs who are well into their 30s and perhaps even over 40. Seems to be somthing wrong there? I think it's just a patronising way of saying "you don't have good enough records to play with the big boys but we'd like you to come along and bring a few mates and help promote the night". Sorry, but that's the way I see it.

Personally I don't think it's important in the long run, because in 5 or at the most 10 years time the UK soul scene will be a shadow of what it is at the moment. IMO Allnighters will turn into conventions, and weekenders will be very tame affairs compared to what they are now. What there will be IMO are town center clubs and city center music venues promoted by a new breed of soul fan with DJs playing rare soul in all it's forms promoted to a young and vibrant music crowd like there is in Europe, a crowd of music lovers for the sake of good music. The DJs who will be important then are those who are capable of putting together fresh and interesting sets based on musical merit. The 'old school' DJs from the old northern soul scene will not have the ability to play to these sorts of crowds who come along to hear exciting music, not records drenched in history and scene politics first, musical content second.

This has already started to happen, for example Andy Smith's promotions around London, Motherfunk in Scotland, Keb's Deepfunk + Lost And Found, "You KnowYou Got Soul" in Chelmsford and Hip Shaker on the South Coast as well as many others.

Nothing stays the same for ever.

"Young" DJs will be booked if the establishment wants them, and "young" DJs will want to DJ if they get satisfaction out of doing it and are made to feel wanted. But having said that I can't see too many of them queueing up to get into northern soul venues let alone wanting to DJ so this debate is a bit of a waste of time. The future lies in taking "Northern Soul" back to the city center clubs and then useing those clubs to feed new blood into the establishment by going to these events and promoting to the new crowd that they generate.

While this music is being played to a young crowd of music loving clubbers we can hold hope of a future for the "northern soul scene" as we know it now but it is important that we embrace a younger crowd ASAP and then the question about "young DJs being important" will be relevent, but not until this new younger crowd is embraced by the promoters. It's got to be done soon, because the dance floor and atmosphere at soul events is still exciting and vibrant, but in 5 years time I can't see any hope unless new dancers are attracted soon Forget amphetasoul, it'll be zimmersoul.

All in my humble opinion of course.

Edited May 3, 2006 by James Trouble

[Guest]

Ok its fine for a collector of the time - buying at reasonable cost and later accumulating enough records to form a set / start djing his collection or even start his own venue.

But to be a young enthusiastic soul collector of Today is another matter entirely,Unless said collection is passed down to him he has to have unlimited pockets to acquire one. On the other hand CDs Mp3 etc is an inexpensive way to have those sounds and to him may well be the common sense approach.

But here is the dillema of CDs V Vinyl?????

Everyone Agrees it has to be on vinyl or else forget it BUT!

I saw a board up in a boozer NORTHERN SOUL TONIGHT 6 TILL 12!

Thought i will have a walk over and sure enough the sounds were belting out but from CDs!!!

I couldnt beleive what i was witnessing this was amounting to Sacrilidge!

Yet the place was rocking and i mean it!

What really struck me was the lack of Soulies who were there,These people were not really fans as such but were totally lapping it up!

Many couples gave me the immpression of just wanting to listen to something other than the usual rap hip hop dire pop that has driven them from the clubs years ago,they really didnt care what format the soul was been played on,They loved it?

In fact The Snake was played 3 times!!!!! each time it filled the dancefloor!!!

There was stuff like millie jackson /my man and Johnny Johnson /honey bee/Foundations /build me up/etc tunes that they remembered and they loved it. But also RARE NS CDs

Dont get me wrong here it was a pub but a pub with a floor 15/15 ft and no charge in.

And it really truly didnt seem to bother anyone about the ethics of what was going down at all (apart from myself ) but hey who am i to cause a scene or should i have got the Soul Police to send round a van.

[Guest Baz]

Ok its fine for a collector of the time - buying at reasonable cost and later accumulating enough records to form a set / start djing his collection or even start his own venue.

But to be a young enthusiastic soul collector of Today is another matter entirely,Unless said collection is passed down to him he has to have unlimited pockets to acquire one.

Not necciserilly, I have been collecting for a good six years, its took time and effort to build a collection i have rarest of the rare right through to some of the cheapest things you could think of, but it seems some times this scene will only except a DJ if they are playing all the most well known £1000 records

Now i dont want to come acrross abit big headed or boasting but the likes of myself and James especially have some pretty decent collections, I've herd it on here some many times about how you need unlimited pockets to be a DJ.............PLEASE!

[Guest]

Not necciserilly, I have been collecting for a good six years, its took time and effort to build a collection i have rarest of the rare right through to some of the cheapest things you could think of, but it seems some times this scene will only except a DJ if they are playing all the most well known £1000 records

Now i dont want to come acrross abit big headed or boasting but the likes of myself and James especially have some pretty decent collections, I've herd it on here some many times about how you need unlimited pockets to be a DJ.............PLEASE!

No i certainly wouldnt knock anyone from persuing his Soul Baz and yes there are lots of records to be found but still it takes passion .Many times especially when i was paying my parents my keep ive arrived home on payday with a bag full of singles and no board!

Once my dad went Fu88ing ape and threw about 100+singles over the lawn!!! because he thought i was well out of order and stupid!

But what i am trying to say is that for lots of young people a record is something of an oddity?

and to them the Soul tune that hits the spot leads them to Soul club jbox MP3searches CDs Kazaa etc. A reference facility which was not available until just a few years ago.

Price lists,Guides,Books, All of which are available now to aid collectors

The next step in accquiring vinyl and a deck and going for it to aspire to DJ is an awesome desicion. To persue this he is going to face again the dillema of buying perhaps the British releases against USA or (re-issues??) purely on a Amount of tunes v ££s for few discs? Ime talking to keep it Vinyl here?

And it is a passion to do this but ultimately it gets expensive when you consider everything else he needs his cash for.

Like the guy spinning RARE CDs and punters actually enjoying it and not bothering of the format issue,there is a good demand for Tunes that are not necesserily rare or NS ,There are many who would not consider being a soulie or go to a nighter but would love to listen again to the music they remember, Philli la ,motown, Funk music.

Ime all for the younger collectors and agree there is elitism & clique issues between the higherarchy and promoters that isnt necesserily to the betterment of young enthusistic aspiring djs.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Mr M

[Dennisoul]

A good collecton played with plenty heart,the crowd will respond and you`ll be guarenteed a few bookings.

[Guest Baz]

A good collecton played with plenty heart,the crowd will respond and you`ll be guarenteed a few bookings.

Too true

[Martint]

Not necciserilly, I have been collecting for a good six years, its took time and effort to build a collection i have rarest of the rare right through to some of the cheapest things you could think of, but it seems some times this scene will only except a DJ if they are playing all the most well known £1000 records

Now i dont want to come acrross abit big headed or boasting but the likes of myself and James especially have some pretty decent collections, I've herd it on here some many times about how you need unlimited pockets to be a DJ.............PLEASE!

have to agree here I have been building my set for about 10 years since starting DJing at these old shoes and during this time I have mainly worked on a relatively low wage, since married, had a son, got a mortgage etc. no mega income from anywhere and, if I do say so myself, now have a pretty solid set of tunes including a fair few 'bigger' sounds. I've found plenty of 2-300 quid records for buttons over the years through hard work and luck, and like most people on here, I have bought sold and traded to improve my own box.

People who bemoan the cost of records and go on about not being able to play boots are more often than not people who want to get bookings without doing any of the legwork involved in putting together a creditable (and more importantly, to some extent individual) playbox.

Getting the bookings and penetrating the self supporting cliques is another matter entirely however.

Martin

[Dave]

First of all, why don't you get off that fence and say what you bloody think?

As a point of interest compare this to Europe. In Europe where the crowd has no 'history', no preconception about what 'northern soul' is, or whether a record is 'upfront', 'oldie', rnb, crossover, funk etc etc. They just dance to records because of what they are hearing. If it is good they dance, whether they know it or not, if it is shite they clear the dance floor, whether they know the record or not. This is very satisfying for a DJ, because you can play a set free of the shackles of history and preconception and scene politics. It's great fun and very satisfying.

What there will be IMO are town center clubs and city center music venues promoted by a new breed of soul fan with DJs playing rare soul in all it's forms promoted to a young and vibrant music crowd like there is in Europe, a crowd of music lovers for the sake of good music. The DJs who will be important then are those who are capable of putting together fresh and interesting sets based on musical merit. The 'old school' DJs from the old northern soul scene will not have the ability to play to these sorts of crowds who come along to hear exciting music, not records drenched in history and scene politics first, musical content second.

Nothing stays the same for ever.

The future lies in taking "Northern Soul" back to the city center clubs and then useing those clubs to feed new blood into the establishment by going to these events and promoting to the new crowd that they generate.

While this music is being played to a young crowd of music loving clubbers we can hold hope of a future for the "northern soul scene" as we know it now but it is important that we embrace a younger crowd ASAP and then the question about "young DJs being important" will be relevent, but not until this new younger crowd is embraced by the promoters. It's got to be done soon, because the dance floor and atmosphere at soul events is still exciting and vibrant, but in 5 years time I can't see any hope unless new dancers are attracted soon Forget amphetasoul, it'll be zimmersoul.

Interesting comparison with the European "scene" there. I've experienced an example of it, and very refreshing it is too... much as you've described.

There is however a major reason why it will be such a struggle to achieve the same here, and you've outlined it in the first para I've quoted:

The clubbers in Europe go simply because they have a love for good music and want to dance to it. They have no preconceived ideas and their judgemants are not affected by history, heritage etc.

The younger element here have an image of "northern soul". It involves groups of middle aged people dressed in baggy clothes and vests dancing to the same 200 records, that have been played since 1974, every week, worried to death about such things as etiquette, and banging on about a given record being played at a club that was closed before they were born. I'm not saying their image is absolutely accurate, but it exists nevertheless... and its easy to see how it might be slightly off-putting.

[Guest]

A good collecton played with plenty heart,the crowd will respond and you`ll be guarenteed a few bookings.

You think so!!do you?

[Guest]

[

Like I said before it's what a Dj has to offer not his or her age.

[Mark Bicknell]

This type of debate will run and run and IMO there are no answers or resolutions as the scene, it's history and way of thinking is in some areas it's own down fall, when i started DJ'ing back in about 1980 well if you think it's tuff too break into DJ'ing now it was close to impossible then, very much a closed shop, very much old old school and you basically had to ern your stripes, learn the craft and serve your time at local level events before getting the National bigger gigs also the key then which should apply now is quality and depth of collection, knowing and having an understanding of your subject, presentation of a set, entertainment value and reputation.

Back then the door was almost closed and to get your toe in through it you had to ease your way through, now it's far more open which i feel in some cases is a very refreshing situation to be in but as with the gigs there seems to be a saturation point with the amount of people out there DJ'ing old, young or otherwise almost an over kill situation, dozens of events on the same night, gigs over subscribed with DJ's and way under par with numbers through the door but that's really not the issue here but part of the bigger picture.

From my own personal perspective at aged 45 i still feel i can contribute to the scene as a DJ being on a lot less regular basis, it's nice to still be asked and invited to play records all over the UK, i would like to think that this is due to the above comments regarding, reputation, collection, merrit, entertainment value etc. etc. believe me i know how this thing works and yes it can be about how rare, original your records are but if the quality of music on offer does it for people then i see this as going somewhere near to getting it right, it's also about knowing your boundries as a DJ and not trying to be something you are not or thinking you are more than say a one trick pony, i mean this in the nicest possible way....i'll explain again from my own perspective, i'm basically i think an oldies DJ with a knack of falling on the odd few records over the years and making them popular, i have a solid base of ok bigger end records, mostly well known but of a quality which i feel justify still being played, if i'm asked to DJ at a gig which i perhaps feel unable to give 100% then i simply would not take the gig, for example although Andy Dyson, Chalky, Mick .H etc. know my style and basis of collection i would not fit into the 'Life Line' events musically i know that and respect the direction this event is moving towards, this does not mean i could not hold my own it's simply that this promotion it's ideals, ethics etc. are rooted in progression of the music and some DJ's big names or otherwise don't fit in, not saying that i'm not into progression of the music it's just that the DJ's selected to play such events are more geared up musically to offer new and refreshing music and that i for one respect and admire.

Of course there is the buddy, buddy thing that goes on 'you DJ at my gig' and 'i'll DJ at yours' often at local level and that in time has nowhere to go, then theres not everyone gets on, politics etc. then trust me it don't matter how old you are or what records you have, how good you are etc. you just won't ever get some gigs as it's personal ratrher than what it should be professional thing, we all have examples of this i'm sure but again not for debate here!

I respect and agree with many of the points raised here, i fell however that because the scene being the way that it is change will be a slow process, aged of DJ's should for the moment be put on a back burner and should be left to keeping the scene, it's music alive, i'm not talking about styles of music, politics, rare or common tune and all the other stuff that make this baby tick, i'm simply talking contribute if you can, support the efforts of many and dismiss this age thing......time will end this scene nothing else!

I can't comment on other DJ's experences on here i just know that if you have a true understanding on the role of a DJ that age has very little to do with it, if you have something good to offer in time you will be asked to play tunes, ego should be left at the door and let the people deside and you will find this out very simply if the floor is packed...simple as!

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Baz Atkinson]

GOOD THREAD THIS AND WELL DONE TO JAMES TROUBLE FOR STICKING HIS NECK OUT AND SAYING VERY ELOQUENTLY WHAT NEED TO BE SAID. FIRSTLY YOUNG DJS ARE ESSENTIAL,THERE BRING A DIFFERENT SLANT AND VIEW ON TO A SCENE THAT IS TRENCHED IN HYPOCRISY,VESTED INTEREST AND FINANCIAL SELF INTEREST.ON TOP OF THIS OVER PLAYED SHITE,EMBARRASSING RETRO FASHION AND SOUL NIGHT AFTER SOUL NIGHT THAT OFFERS NOTHING BUT CHEAP BOOZE AND THE CARSTAIRS.

WHEN I GOT IN TO THE SCENE IN THE SEVENTIES THROUGH THE YOUTH CLUBS IN THE NORTH EAST ,THE SOUL BOYS AND GIRLS WERE ALWAYS THE PEOLE TO BE AROUND,BREATH OF FRESH AIR,DARING TO PUSH THE LIMITS MUSICALLY ,NOW LOOK AT THE SCENE EXCEPT FOR THE UPFRONT DOS WHICH I SUPPORT FULLY,NO FRESH SOUNDS AND ALOT OF BRAND BUILDING AND EMPIRE BUILDING.

WE NEED YOUTH AS THE FOUNDATION OF OUR SCENE IS BASED ON IT,AND IF THAT MEANS THE PEOPLE FROM OTHER SCENES MIXING IT TO PUSH IT FORWARD THEN SO BE IT.ONE LAST POINT THERE IS A MILLION COLLECTORS OUT THERE WHO COULD PUT TOGETHER BRILLIANT UNKNOWN SETS PLAYING 20 QUID RECORDS ,WHY ARE THEY NOT GIVING A CHANCE? AGAIN [NOT BIG NAMES MENTALITY]

BA ZATKINSON NORTH EAST.

[Guest Stuart T]

Good post James, some responses for your delectation (I've trimmed the post, trust this doesn't look like I'm misrepresenting what you said, if anyone has an issue please return to the original post for clarification):

I have found it very hard to play new sounds to the UK northern scene and I have the ability to play whole sets of exclusives and newies but the crowds in the UK seem to run away scared from anything they don't know.

I don't think its a question of being "scared". I think its the case that many people want to go out and dance to records that they know and like. Few new sounds are instant really, are they? I'd like new records all night myself, as long as they're good.

Hamilton Movement is a good example. After the funk scene had discarded this record after we had had our use out of it it .... What does that tell you about the UK soul scene? Will come back to that...

I should have guessed that it was all down to you pesky interfering kids...not a fan of that record. We can't have it all our own way James, I'd like to hear newies all night.

I am usually very aggressive when I DJ and tend to be antagonistic on the mic when the crowd does not react. This normally works for me and in 10 years of DJing I have never killed a floor,

Personally hate aggressive DJ speak, let the records do the talking, people who respond to someone berating them over the mike (other than waving two fingers) should be ashamed of themselves.

And then there is my "upfront" (I hate that term but will use it) set which is generally well received, largley because my exclusives are pretty damn good, even if I say so myself

Never stick your head between some railings James, they'll never get you out Are they really that good btw? I've only heard your oldies set at the Bed Bar.

As a point of interest compare this to Europe. In Europe where the crowd has no 'history', no preconception about what 'northern soul' is, or whether a record is 'upfront', 'oldie', rnb, crossover, funk etc etc. They just dance to records because of what they are hearing. If it is good they dance, whether they know it or not, if it is shite they clear the dance floor, whether they know the record or not. This is very satisfying for a DJ, because you can play a set free of the shackles of history and preconception and scene politics. It's great fun and very satisfying.

Agree entirely. But a DJ should respond to the crowd he or she has got or not take the booking if they're not prepared to. Nobody should go to a large capacity event nowadays and expect to do a "newies" set.

instead of DJing in Europe infront of hundreds of young and enthusiastic dancers and getting paid decent money and treated as a bit of a star.

Wrong reasons to DJ IMHO. Thats nice but surely the reason is to share your sounds and give other people a bit of pleasure?

So perhaps the question is not "are young DJs important?". Perhaps what should be asked is "Are new DJs concidered important by the UK establishment?".

I don't really think the "scene" gives a monkeys as long as they are hearing music that they like but promoters will be loathe to book anyone they don't know/trust. Until we run out of DJs nobody will notice if they're wearing incontinence pants. Nobody seems to have actively supported giving sets to new and young DJs in the SE since the CSC at The Dome folded.

I suspect that iw on't have anything to do with the scene in a few years as it'll have become, as you say, a convention and I'd probably then rather hear music at home witha few mates on a decent system, with beer in the fridge and no taxi home required.

[Mark Bicknell]

GOOD THREAD THIS AND WELL DONE TO JAMES TROUBLE FOR STICKING HIS NECK OUT AND SAYING VERY ELOQUENTLY WHAT NEED TO BE SAID. FIRSTLY YOUNG DJS ARE ESSENTIAL,THERE BRING A DIFFERENT SLANT AND VIEW ON TO A SCENE THAT IS TRENCHED IN HYPOCRISY,VESTED INTEREST AND FINANCIAL SELF INTEREST.ON TOP OF THIS OVER PLAYED SHITE,EMBARRASSING RETRO FASHION AND SOUL NIGHT AFTER SOUL NIGHT THAT OFFERS NOTHING BUT CHEAP BOOZE AND THE CARSTAIRS.

WHEN I GOT IN TO THE SCENE IN THE SEVENTIES THROUGH THE YOUTH CLUBS IN THE NORTH EAST ,THE SOUL BOYS AND GIRLS WERE ALWAYS THE PEOLE TO BE AROUND,BREATH OF FRESH AIR,DARING TO PUSH THE LIMITS MUSICALLY ,NOW LOOK AT THE SCENE EXCEPT FOR THE UPFRONT DOS WHICH I SUPPORT FULLY,NO FRESH SOUNDS AND ALOT OF BRAND BUILDING AND EMPIRE BUILDING.

WE NEED YOUTH AS THE FOUNDATION OF OUR SCENE IS BASED ON IT,AND IF THAT MEANS THE PEOPLE FROM OTHER SCENES MIXING IT TO PUSH IT FORWARD THEN SO BE IT.ONE LAST POINT THERE IS A MILLION COLLECTORS OUT THERE WHO COULD PUT TOGETHER BRILLIANT UNKNOWN SETS PLAYING 20 QUID RECORDS ,WHY ARE THEY NOT GIVING A CHANCE? AGAIN [NOT BIG NAMES MENTALITY]

BA ZATKINSON NORTH EAST.

Bang on Baz.....like me i guess you stay away from the 'Cheap Beer And Carstairs' gigs, perhaps this is an area which shoud be looked at? bores the shit out of me....lol

Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Baz]

The revolution has begun and it will be televised

Edited May 3, 2006 by Baz

[Guest]

Another factor that i beleive to be to the detriment of the hundreds of thousands of Soul Records pressed over the past 40/50 years is-

Vinyl carvers! @ £25 Quid a throw? what messages does that send out for our future!

[Guest James Trouble]

"instead of DJing in Europe infront of hundreds of young and enthusiastic dancers and getting paid decent money and treated as a bit of a star.

"Wrong reasons to DJ IMHO. Thats nice but surely the reason is to share your sounds and give other people a bit of pleasure?"

I don't think I did say that was a reason to be DJing, did I? Do you think I drive to places like Soul Or Nothing and do £80 in petrol and give Stevie my wages back because he put alot more effort into the event than I did for the fame and fortune?

No, I don't think you do, you are just being a bit antagonistic for the sake of it I'm guessing?

Edited May 3, 2006 by James Trouble

[Baz Atkinson]

THANKS MARK B ,WE HAVE NOT SEEN YOU AT PIERCEBRIDGE YET,SURELY THAT WILL BE RECTIFIED SHORTLY,I OFTEN THINK OF THE LAUGHS WE HAD AT STAFFS/SHOTTS [REMEMBER THE SUNGLASSES NIGHT LIKE IT WAS YESTERDAY].INTERESTING COMPARISON TO BE HONEST AS MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO WENT THERE AT THE TIME WERE IN THE LATE TWENTIES AND OPEN TO ALL SORTS OF STUFF.PADDED CELL BEEN A GOOD EXAMPLE ETC.

DJED AT SOUL OR NOTHING 2 WEEKS AGO AND LISTENED TO ADAM AND JAMES SPOT,BREATH OF FRESH AIR,TALKED ABOUT IT ON THE WAY BACK WITH MY OLD SPARRING PARTNER GAZ SIMONS AND AGREED THAT WE NEED NEW BLOOD ,NOT JUST BASED ON MUSIC BUT ATTITUDE ALSO [GOES ALONG WAY IN MY EYES]REMEMBER SOUL SAM GETTING BOLLOCKED FOR PLAYING PROGRESSIVE STUFF AT THE CASINO ,5 YEARS LATER COLLECTORS BUY HIS STUFF.

THE SCENES FRAUGHT WITH CONTRATICTIONS ,WE ALL ADD TO THE CAULDROM,MAKES IT GOOD FUN,ALOT OF MY MATES SIT IN CLUBS AND PLAY DOMINOS,ME IVE JUST BOUGHT ALTON SHADES ON BLUE ROCK ,WHATEVER FLOATS YOUR BOAT I SUPPOSE,BUT MUSIC DOES KEEP YOU YOUNG AT HEART,WE CANT GO ON FOR EVER BUT.

[Guest in town Mikey]

Great post James.

just want to nit pick a little.

IMO a good DJ responds to the floor, and can dictate only to a certain extent EXACTLY what is going to be played. If you go into an event and decide this is getting played and cant deviate according to the crowd, thats a DJ failing rather than the actual music.

The reason why Sam and Butch get so many plaudits is they can introduce records at the right time, and eventually they get into our heads.

If someone I didnt know, was playing a record I didnt know (or particularly like) and they were telling me I was wrong over the mic, I think my shoulders would go back and from then on hate every tune played, even if I loved it.

The difference between being a good dj, and having a good collection is huge.

And BTW a lot of the Stafford classics of today were recieved by pretty empty dancefloors, because quite often the crowd wasnt to busy. Keb for example would also know when to say 'dance you #####s'. it wouldnt often be following 'first time out anywhere'.

[Winnie :-)]

The revolution has begun and it will be televised

==============

Baz, James, and Matt Smart (all in their 20Ts) played great sets at Bedford on Sunday, and all had people dancing. There were some lulls, but that in the main was because there were a lot of people there who hadn't seen each other for ages, and also smokers had to go into the other room. So IMO none of the DJ's underperformed

What younger DJ's do bring to the table is enthusiasm and passion (as well as their record collections) many times you can watch one of the older DJs performing and sort of smiling knowingly because he/she has certain 'well respected' sounds. I don't think that's the same with the younger lads, they openly enthuse, and that is the sort of thing that will sustain the scene.

Younger people on the scene in general would be great, I agree with Dave in that respect, but don't agree younger people are not attracted because they view the scene as 'Aging grandads in vests and bags', what they probably view it as, is more a collection of people who have become complacent over the years. When it was more a vibrant dance scene, it was exciting, now it's become a more social orientated event, that is not going to appeal to the vast majority of youngsters IMO. Why would they want to socialise with the likes of us, they will have little in common to be honest.

Winnie:-)

[Guest Stuart T]

"instead of DJing in Europe infront of hundreds of young and enthusiastic dancers and getting paid decent money and treated as a bit of a star.

"Wrong reasons to DJ IMHO. Thats nice but surely the reason is to share your sounds and give other people a bit of pleasure?"

I don't think I did say that was a reason to be DJing, did I? Do you think I drive to places like Soul Or Nothing and do £80 in petrol and give Stevie my wages back because he put alot more effort into the event than I did for the fame and fortune?

No, I don't think you do, you are just being a bit antagonistic for the sake of it I'm guessing?

No, I wasn't, my reading was that you put it down as a potential reason to have preferred the other booking. Giving the money back doesn't deny the fame aspect. Next time you DJ I expect to see you wearing a disguise!

[Guest James Trouble]

No, I wasn't, my reading was that you put it down as a potential reason to have preferred the other booking. Giving the money back doesn't deny the fame aspect. Next time you DJ I expect to see you wearing a disguise!

You know exactly what my point was, now behave yourself.

[Dennisoul]

You think so!!do you?

Don`t think so Ken,I know so

[Guest Stuart T]

You know exactly what my point was, now behave yourself.

Kindly try expressing your points with greater clarity in future you cheeky young scamp I still reckon you're in it for the fame.