40 Somethings

[Kev John]

Of course not, thanks to Lifeline, 100 club etc carrying on the ethos.

I'm not Barry by the way, he's far more eloquent

Sorry Byrney

i'm a dope

liked your quote anyway

atb Kev

[Pete S]

Being at the "younger end" of 40 something and collecting / listening to ALL kinds of soul music since my teens, but only really getting deeper into Northern and Rare soul + going to more events this last 3 or 4 years, I still remain amazed and frustrated in equal measure with the blinkered view of some people (including many 40 somethings and younger!) when it comes listening, dancing or just generally talking about this unbelievable range of music we all love.

We belong to something pretty special I think, so whether it's 60's or current releases, well known things or the "new to your ears" things, 100mph or deep and sweet soul etc etc...Just take a step back and feel lucky to be able to enjoy it.

What a ridiculous statement. People are blinkered because they don't like all aspects of soul music?

It's called having personal taste.

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Older people ruled by Habit you say. If that is the case can we say that 'Younger' people are ruled by Fashion and Peer pressure, unable to make up their own minds and go along with the trend or what their mates are doing. Swings both ways.

No - us younger one were part of the journey of advancement. Often a very lonely and private journey that due to our musical choice resulted in isolation within your circle of friends at school. But limited you to a different circle of local folks within your area.

Ah "acceptance" does appeal to the masses, but to us we had the choice's of acceptance.

[Scotters]

What a ridiculous statement. People are blinkered because they don't like all aspects of soul music?

It's called having personal taste.

We all have personal taste, of course we do. What I meant was it's annoying when someone tries to tell you their taste is better, or for example moan like hell at you about something that's being played at an event just because it is not to their taste when others there are clearly into it.

[Tezza]

No - us younger one were part of the journey of advancement. Often a very lonely and private journey that due to our musical choice resulted in isolation within your circle of friends at school. But limited you to a different circle of local folks within your area.

Ah "acceptance" does appeal to the masses, but to us we had the choice's of acceptance.

Advancement - in the same way the Nazi's advanced on Poland ? Don't care what you think, we are coming in and laying down some new rules. Do we have a refurendum or accept your version of advancement ?

Not your thing then don't advance and drag us along with you. Why not just set up your own little club and offer out memberships. If others like your version of advancement then you'll have to rent a bigger Room..

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Advancement - in the same way the Nazi's advanced on Poland ? Don't care what you think, we are coming in and laying down some new rules. Do we have a refurendum or accept your version of advancement ?

Not your thing then don't advance and drag us along with you. Why not just set up your own little club and offer out memberships. If others like your version of advancement then you'll have to rent a bigger Room..

Just proves that old folks will always speak of the war !!

Result !!

Edited January 26, 2013 by Nick Harrison

[Tezza]

Just proves that old folks will always speak of the war !!

Touche !!

[jocko]

Advancement - in the same way the Nazi's advanced on Poland ? Don't care what you think, we are coming in and laying down some new rules. Do we have a refurendum or accept your version of advancement ?

Not your thing then don't advance and drag us along with you. Why not just set up your own little club and offer out memberships. If others like your version of advancement then you'll have to rent a bigger Room..

I thought you weren't teliing anyone what to, now you are "laying down new rules". Who are these we you talk about? How will you enforce them, statute, stiff upper lip and tell the scoundrels off for not following your etiquette.

You do realise these "youngsters" you are arguing down are mostly at least late 40's. most, myself included, went to Wigan and many all nighters afterwards. Hardly young upstarts breaking "your" scene.

Can I ask, do you go to allnighters currently?

Edited January 26, 2013 by jocko

[Back Street Blue]

Bottom line appears to be that you are somehow less entitled to an opinion if you didn't devote your life to going to niters and collecting whatever the latest rare discovery and regardless of whether it was at the right tempo to dance properly to.

I'm a dancer and not a collector, and moved with the times and experienced other types of dance music when I became disenchanted with the way things where going in the early eighties..................so shoot me.

I wasn't one of those who did Wigan for a couple of years, I went there and other niters 74 through 82. I continued to attend soul clubs, ok mostly local do's that my mates organised and DJ'd at right through the intervening period (including some cracking niters at the Ritz) despite the fact that I was regularly at the Hacienda and then garage clubs. Never really gave up the goat at all really, just less intensely and less frequently.

Yet some of the "faith keepers" bleating on here think their's was the only scene that was ongoing. Who made the rule that we had to go to your clubs and with your intensity to be entitled to an opinion.

'You might like your exclusivity, fair enough, you might think the later discoveries are better than the old tunes but you've got to admit that in the most its not really proper dance music is it, which is probably why there is such a chasm between the dancers from the 70's and the forty somethings.

[jocko]

Bottom line appears to be that you are somehow less entitled to an opinion if you didn't devote your life to going to niters and collecting whatever the latest rare discovery and regardless of whether it was at the right tempo to dance properly to.

I'm a dancer and not a collector, and moved with the times and experienced other types of dance music when I became disenchanted with the way things where going in the early eighties..................so shoot me.

I wasn't one of those who did Wigan for a couple of years, I went there and other niters 74 through 82. I continued to attend soul clubs, ok mostly local do's that my mates organised and DJ'd at right through the intervening period (including some cracking niters at the Ritz) despite the fact that I was regularly at the Hacienda and then garage clubs. Never really gave up the goat at all really, just less intensely and less frequently.

Yet some of the "faith keepers" bleating on here think their's was the only scene that was ongoing. Who made the rule that we had to go to your clubs and with your intensity to be entitled to an opinion.

'You might like your exclusivity, fair enough, you might think the later discoveries are better than the old tunes but you've got to admit that in the most its not really proper dance music is it, which is probably why there is such a chasm between the dancers from the 70's and the forty somethings.

Really? Do you actually want to highlight where anyone said any of these things?

[Steve L]

Bottom line appears to be that you are somehow less entitled to an opinion if you didn't devote your life to going to niters and collecting whatever the latest rare discovery and regardless of whether it was at the right tempo to dance properly to.

I'm a dancer and not a collector, and moved with the times and experienced other types of dance music when I became disenchanted with the way things where going in the early eighties..................so shoot me.

I wasn't one of those who did Wigan for a couple of years, I went there and other niters 74 through 82. I continued to attend soul clubs, ok mostly local do's that my mates organised and DJ'd at right through the intervening period (including some cracking niters at the Ritz) despite the fact that I was regularly at the Hacienda and then garage clubs. Never really gave up the goat at all really, just less intensely and less frequently.

Yet some of the "faith keepers" bleating on here think their's was the only scene that was ongoing. Who made the rule that we had to go to your clubs and with your intensity to be entitled to an opinion.

'You might like your exclusivity, fair enough, you might think the later discoveries are better than the old tunes but you've got to admit that in the most its not really proper dance music is it, which is probably why there is such a chasm between the dancers from the 70's and the forty somethings.

1) It might seem like that but I dont think its quite true. The main thing about this whole issue is that a lot of people rediscovered the scene after a 25 year gap of literally not being aware the the thing still existed.

They went to Wigan etc in say 1974/5/6 and then forgot about it completely. When they returned they set about recreating an identical copy of what they had experienced years before without understanding/appreciating/learning about what had happened in the years they were away. The people who kept the scene alive in the 80/90s quite understandably IMO resent this.

2) Most people on the other side of the argument still love all the classic oldies from the 70s, they dont think "their" tunes are better but just as good and equally deserving of merit/reverence

3) There you go about tempo/danceability again Ask the all nighter goers of the 80/90s how much dancing was done (other people are better qualified than me to comment on this)

[Len]

You forgot prince phillip mitchell :D

Jan's favourite!

Len

Edited January 26, 2013 by LEN

[jocko]

And highlighting titles of some of these new discoveries that aren't good dance tubes might help in any admissions, or do you just mean all later than when you were around discoveries?

[Back Street Blue]

Really? Do you actually want to highlight where anyone said any of these things?

yes really and read the rest of the thread and underline it yourself if you require further emphasis

[Back Street Blue]

And highlighting titles of some of these new discoveries that aren't good dance tubes might help in any admissions, or do you just mean all later than when you were around discoveries?

the slosh, momma do the slosh, everybody slosh now etc etc

[Len]

Although when I see them now and they're telling me to get myself to the Grosvenor rooms for some real northern and not that sh1t I listen to.

Yes, it's frustrating isn't it mate? Mine was "that rare shit" ....I have suspected for a very long time, that their augment may not have been thought through, if so - only very briefly!

All the best,

Len

[Len]

Even better, was having a drink with a mate in Ilkeston few years back and a couple of lads come and sat with us, one kitted out in bags etc. 'where you been Byrney... Not off to the Regency rooms then? ... Spose someone has to keep the faith then, '. Vaguely remember him doing the odd nighter and then vanished.

We gave the regency rooms a miss

I've had "Len, you need to get yaself up North a bit mate".....From someone who had just come out a short time who was a Stoke regular and never heard of The Wilton, Keele, Winsford, etc……

N.B - For the benefit of 'two dimensions' - Nothing wrong with Stoke, it's the patronising advice I was referring to.

Len

Edited January 26, 2013 by LEN

[jocko]

yes really and read the rest of the thread and underline it yourself if you require further emphasis

I did, twice, and still couldn't see it. No matter. Must be about perception.

the slosh, momma do the slosh, everybody slosh now etc etc

I assume that means sensible debate is no longer on menu! No matter.

[barney]

tee hee, thes nowt wrong wi a bit of controversy ,

lets me just say theres allsorts of folk and all varieties of our wonderfull music in this scene the majority who just turn up in their thousands every w/end and attend the their preffered soul night, niter or w/ender and dont come on here and more than likeley, dont give 2 fooks about who or what is said on here , they just get on with it and enjoy it, even if they have a good old moan to the dj ,promoter or pasing punter,

I love this scene I like coming on here , but its not life and death its about music , and its about time some people got real ,got a life and grew up .

BTW am not aiming this at any one in particular its just that we need a reallity check now and again .

[Len]

tee hee, thes nowt wrong wi a bit of controversy ,

lets me just say theres allsorts of folk and all varieties of our wonderfull music in this scene the majority who just turn up in their thousands every w/end and attend the their preffered soul night, niter or w/ender and dont come on here and more than likeley, dont give 2 fooks about who or what is said on here , they just get on with it and enjoy it, even if they have a good old moan to the dj ,promoter or pasing punter,

I love this scene I like coming on here , but its not life and death its about music , and its about time some people got real ,got a life and grew up .

BTW am not aiming this at any one in particular its just that we need a reallity check now and again .

What?!!!! How dare you? - It's not about enjoying yourself, this is serious stuff!

All the best,

Len

[barney]

exactly len

am just a mere pawn in this game did wigan once didnt care for it , no beer not good for any self respecting Barnsley lad , liked the music though , been listening to it years before wigan , , and though the pace was quicker back then with new quality (imho) sounds coming out week in week out , am still gobsmacked by the new to me sounds which crop up every now and then .

therefore will not jump on the new /modern whatever is crap wagon any longer , will just say that I choose where I go , what I wear and what I like to listen to , and happily have a large group of friends who are likeminded , and at 57 years of age think I probably know whats best for myself ,

[Len]

I'd like to think we all actually agree with this anyway - We're all full of passion that’s all, and I reckon that in itself is great!

Have a good weekend wherever you go - The kidz are ill, so I'll be having a Soul Night in my Kitchen......I'm still gonna moan about the music though

All the best,

Len

[Tezza]

I thought you weren't teliing anyone what to, now you are "laying down new rules". Who are these we you talk about? How will you enforce them, statute, stiff upper lip and tell the scoundrels off for not following your etiquette.

You do realise these "youngsters" you are arguing down are mostly at least late 40's. most, myself included, went to Wigan and many all nighters afterwards. Hardly young upstarts breaking "your" scene.

Can I ask, do you go to allnighters currently?

I used the term 'Youngsters' as in a previous message i/we were refered to as Older. It appears to have become a battle of Semantics.

Yes, do go to nighters which in all honesty has nothing whatsoever to do with this thread. I DJ at Nighters - Not MickH or Ted but still, have a decent collection and can get a floor moving, even with my old records - OVO hasn't been mentioned yet ?!?!?

Congratulations on going to Wigan by the way. Used to go every week despite the fact it wasn't my fav venue.

Keep Dancing - Keep beleiving and keep arguing your corner. Keeps the mind and the Scene active

[Guest gordon russell]

Are you actually agreeing with me?

NO!!! :lol: .........i,m not sure now? :lol:

[Back Street Blue]

I did, twice, and still couldn't see it. No matter. Must be about perception.

I assume that means sensible debate is no longer on menu! No matter.

Hey mate I l know I'm out of my depth with you on this subject, you do what you do and I'll do what I do so let's both just get on and enjoy what we do.

By the way I will genuinely try to learn more about the rarer side and have an open mind despite my input on this thread.

I was tempted to carry on the semantics for a laugh though and would have said the following, tongue in cheek, but didn't want to cause offence...

And highlighting titles of some of these new discoveries that aren't good dance tubes might help in any admissions, or do you just mean all later than when you were around discoveries?

Charring Cross, Kings Cross, Gudge Street,Warren Street and........... Tubular Bells by Mike Oldfield.....................I'm just a dumb arsed dancer at the end of the day!

All the best

[Guest gordon russell]

Yes, it's frustrating isn't it mate? Mine was "that rare shit" ....I have suspected for a very long time, that their augment may not have been thought through, if so - only very briefly!

All the best,

Len

Len....you,ve always liked the wrong rare sh*t.... :lol: .....at least you're consistant

[NEV]

I'll be 44 in a few months and across the board IS the way.

Life would be boring if we just liked one style of music or even one style of soul.

Soul is soul whether it be deep, crossover, oldies stompers, rare, underplayed, modern, whatever.

For the record, I used to hate modern with a passion but although my preference is still rare soul, I am coming over to the dark (modern) side more frequently now and even have a few dozen modern tunes in my collection now!

Also sometimes I feel as if us younger ones who never came onto the scene until the 80s or in my case the 90s are treated like we don't know a thing about the music and should bow down to our elders.....

I've been to so many events billed as an "Across the board event" and my conclusion is ,that it's a cop out and 99% of the time is just a marketing strategy to lure people to a venue .

In short ,it's telling the punters that the dj's play a broad mix of music that will suit all tastes ,which should send everybody home a happy chappie ..but in truth it usually ends up being a case of the promoter letting his mates ( who he thinks he knows well enough) dj and they inturn play whatever they feel like playing on the night .

The fact is ,it's not up for discussion beforehand that Jim plays some oldies ,Bob plays some RnB ,Billy plays some modern and so on .. it's just hit and hope and i don't no anybody who plays a set that actually covers the full across the board records to suit everyone in any room on one given night

[Biggordy]

Surely there's a place though for nights that play a bit of everything?

Oldies fans will go to oldies venues and so on.

I like all soul, except for stuff made from the late 70s onwards made with synthesisers, computers, etc (with the exception of tunes and albums recorded in analog with real instruments such as the last couple of Candi Staton albums).

I don't understand why there's so much debate on this at times - no one is forcing any of us to go to a venue that we don't like!

[Modernsoulsucks]

My expeience of ATB events in the NW Nev is that its a mixture of the very popular [if dj's have them] records across the genres.

So not too many different 45s and less emphasis on newies which is down to availibility.

ROD

[Len]

By the way I will genuinely try to learn more about the rarer side and have an open mind despite my input on this thread.

All the best

There ya'll go, something has been achieved! Hey, but don't put yaself down by saying 'learning' - All the people from 'The Rare Sh*t’ side of the Scene ask, is for people to listen (before they say it's sh*t!) a few folk have actually admitted that they stopped listening and are now really appreciating what’s on offer……especially that Mid-tempo Soul (honest)

There’s a whole load of 'Good Sh*t' out there to be discovered.....and it's better than your sh*t so there! (Last bit tongue in cheek ) — We get the best of both worlds and think you should to, that’s all.

Good luck at Burnley, just 'hit the ground running' and don't stop......Or Terry will tell you off!

Anyway, I’ve got to sort my records out for my ‘Kitchen Soul Night’, so I'm Gone!......Or is that another thread? Christ these past 48 hours have been 'electric' on the site, and I thought we'd all finally run out of conversation (Bit like the wife and I lol)

All the best,

Len

P.s - I'm back on the other computer, hense I can only do the ''

Edited January 26, 2013 by LEN

[Len]

The fact is ,it's not up for discussion beforehand that Jim plays some oldies ,Bob plays some RnB ,Billy plays some modern and so on ..

D’J’s, ‘JIM, BOB ‘n’ BILLY’ — Get em on at Life-line Chalky! Who needs ‘BUTCH, SAM ‘n’ DYSON’?! LOL

All the best,

Len

[Chalky]

By the way I will genuinely try to learn more about the rarer side and have an open mind despite my input on this thread.

All the best

Rarer side? It's the same side as Northern Soul. Plenty of rare records on the "oldies" side of the scene.

[Steve L]

Rarer side? It's the same side as Northern Soul. Plenty of rare records on the "oldies" side of the scene.

Its a misnomer if ever there was one Chalky

Edited January 26, 2013 by Steve L

[Len]

I don't understand why there's so much debate on this at times - no one is forcing any of us to go to a venue that we don't like!

The reason there is 'so much debate on this', is that the true roots of what the Scene was all about are disappearing, and for this reason people are trying to ‘persuade’ others to go to venues they ‘think’ they won’t like, because they are convinced (no, they know) that in most cases they would love em! - if only they went with open ears.

A while back on this forum, I actually offered someone to go to Life-line - the deal being, that if they didn’t like it, I would personally give them their money back, and petrol (I think) God I’m an idiot sometimes! - I should have stayed in the ‘Evangelical Christian Scene’, mind you, there it was ‘The Old Testament’ v ‘The New Testament’ lol (Sorry, I digress), where was I? Oh yeh - on this occasion, the said person didn’t go for some reason….but thanks to Nicola, when I got there, everyone outside said they were waiting for me to pay them in! lol Twas funny Point being, that’s how strongly I and others feel about all this.

I personally want to experience nights I used to have at places like The Manchester Ritz in the 90’s, where everyone used to attend the ‘Rarest OF The Rare’ and ‘The Oldies’ nights and had a smashing time……then you lot came out and spoiled it - JOKE! (Kinda)

It was just so much more ‘healthy’ back then, we never ‘debated’ because we were all too busy ‘doing it!’

All the best,

Len

P.s — Definitely gone now, I’m supposed to be caring for my Children — I never wanted kids you know……

P.p.s - We did used to moan about the music at the services over a quick coffee though (4 hours) but when you got home, that was it - That’s the ‘beauty’ of the ‘tinternet’ I suppose……another debate, I think I need a ‘What’s ya top 5 so and so?’ thread at the minute Night, night……

Edited January 26, 2013 by LEN

[NEV]

D’J’s, ‘JIM, BOB ‘n’ BILLY’ — Get em on at Life-line Chalky! Who needs ‘BUTCH, SAM ‘n’ DYSON’?! LOL

All the best,

Len

Its actually Billy ,Bob & Jim ..they come as a trio and take it in turns to man the decks ...playing from the same big box which i like to call the Tardis ,because it contains every popular record known ,which comes in handy for those unexpected " have you got the ?? ,it goes like this .." La ,la di da " ( especially for you Tez ) .

Now on a more serious note to Gordy ... i'm not saying there is'nt a place for a venue that plays "ATB" and if it works for you and the places you go ,then i'm happy for you ,live and let live .

But for me the ATB venues are usually the more social night soul events and consist of people who would rather go there than into town with the young pish heads of today .

I do attend such nights and that's because i have friends who go ,who i have met along life's journey ,and i like to catch up and have a chat ( TALK THE EARS OFF EM )

But if im going out for some proper soul ,i like to know what's on offer ,who's dj'n on the night and usually always end up enjoying myself ,regardless of numbers in the place .

I really wish i had a star trek type portal machine ,so i could get to places more often because there really is so many good events going on up and down the country every weekend and financially it is costly .

Sadly most are further afield and involve trains and hotels ,or petrol and hotels ... etc etc ..

Musically i touch base with a varied selection ,mid-tempo ,uptempo ... 60's or 70's ,but most importantly i still rejoice and get excited at a new ,to my ears. record !

Thats where it differs from the social soul night ... people looking disgusted at dj's who dare to play a record they don't know.

By for now ...off to the pub for a few ...work in the morning

[Guest manusf3a]

Heres the young uns coming,under fofrty fives half price on the bus,train and getting into the the football with their dads, phooken ell"The young uns", that means the forty year olds? I ve heard of young at heart but havent seen any discussions on anywhere else where the young uns are so old,by the way as you can see by my avatar I am not a young un and havent been for a while,thats young forty ish,in the terms defined in these threads..

Edited January 27, 2013 by manusf3a

[Bazza]

Forty somethings ,just kids ,spilling beer on me blue suede shoe's

Bazza

[Guest Byrney]

Oooh get you Bazza you stylish fellow, wearing blue suede shoes around the house. I'm guessing for 2 or 3 decades the only way us kids could spill drink on them would be to pop around for a cuppa

Edited January 27, 2013 by Byrney

[Back Street Blue]

There ya'll go, something has been achieved! Hey, but don't put yaself down by saying 'learning' - All the people from 'The Rare Sh*t’ side of the Scene ask, is for people to listen (before they say it's sh*t!) a few folk have actually admitted that they stopped listening and are now really appreciating what’s on offer……especially that Mid-tempo Soul (honest)

There’s a whole load of 'Good Sh*t' out there to be discovered.....and it's better than your sh*t so there! (Last bit tongue in cheek ) — We get the best of both worlds and think you should to, that’s all.

Good luck at Burnley, just 'hit the ground running' and don't stop......Or Terry will tell you off!

Anyway, I’ve got to sort my records out for my ‘Kitchen Soul Night’, so I'm Gone!......Or is that another thread? Christ these past 48 hours have been 'electric' on the site, and I thought we'd all finally run out of conversation (Bit like the wife and I lol)

All the best,

Len

P.s - I'm back on the other computer, hense I can only do the ' '

out of likes !

[Back Street Blue]

Rarer side? It's the same side as Northern Soul. Plenty of rare records on the "oldies" side of the scene.

Yeah I heard that they haven't all become too available to sound good any more

[Raremusicdirect]

Isn't this whole thread just an insult to 40 somethings who could have more or less knowledge, collections or taste as any 50 something, 30 something or 60 something............

Lets have equal age rights for 40ts somethings please, least until I am 50

[Tezza]

Isn't this whole thread just an insult to 40 somethings who could have more or less knowledge, collections or taste as any 50 something, 30 something or 60 something............

Lets have equal age rights for 40ts somethings please, least until I am 50

Depends how you interpret what has been said. The written word is sometimes a little hard to understand as you are not privet to all the little nuances of the spoken word. People's grammer and semantics are often misconstrued as being an attack or aggressive defence where in reality it is just a well meant response to a question or accusation.

Makes it all the more interesting.

You're wrong by the way !!

Lol !!

[Bazza]

Oooh get you Bazza you stylish fellow, wearing blue suede shoes around the house. I'm guessing for 2 or 3 decades the only way us kids could spill drink on them would be to pop around for a cuppa

Bit cheeky that Byrney ,I'll let you get away

with it this time,don't do it again tho

Bazza

[spike1]

"Also, I hate it when DJ's talk over records whether they're on the radio or not."

Lots of radio jocks will talk over new rare sounds to prevent people copying them and then playing them via cd or mp3 at events that allow any media

[Raremusicdirect]

"Also, I hate it when DJ's talk over records whether they're on the radio or not."

Lots of radio jocks will talk over new rare sounds to prevent people copying them and then playing them via cd or mp3 at events that allow any media

And I applaud them for doing so..............

[Guest Byrney]

Bit cheeky that Byrney ,I'll let you get away

with it this time,don't do it again tho

Bazza

That's me being reserved old bean. Bit of truth in what I said though eh?

Don't feel that you need to let me get away with anything as I will say what I like, with respect of course

Edited January 27, 2013 by Byrney

[Geeselad]

Depends how you interpret what has been said. The written word is sometimes a little hard to understand as you are not privet to all the little nuances of the spoken word. People's grammer and semantics are often misconstrued as being an attack or aggressive defence where in reality it is just a well meant response to a question or accusation.

Makes it all the more interesting.

You're wrong by the way !!

Lol !!

I know what you mean, especially when you talk about privet hedges, dont you mean privvy, lol?

[Phild]

I know what you mean, especially when you talk about privet hedges, dont you mean privvy, lol?

Or even privy a privvy is an outside bog round here

Edited January 27, 2013 by phild

[Geeselad]

Or even privy a privvy is an outside bog round here

I'll beat your typo with another inaccurate typo, I'm the worst in the world phil, people in glass houses really shouldnt throw stoned, lol.

[Barry]

I think people are all involved at different levels and folk always stand behind what will get them or their preferred choices up the ladder some - a lot of banter re what you should and shouldn't like is all geared to making sure the person giving it moves up a level somewhere down the line, or, their particular nemesis is seen to, or eventually does, move down the ladder.

Very few musically mature people would in reality call any related music or micro-scene irrelevant or 'shit'.