Unsatisfactory Ebay Deal

[Modernsoulsucks]

I dont usually do this but the seller has riled me . This is the last correspondence I got from him some minutes ago

yes please post the comments in soul source,,,and i will also post up my 100% FEEDBACK,,,,will look forward to seeing that....you knew what was on offer you cant fool me,,,,as soon as its back ill check it,,then reimburse you.ive sold it again anyway,,,straight away...thanks SCO..let me know when its in,,,ive got a few very well collectors ready to follow it.

This is the seller's original ad:-

https://www.ebay.co.u...cvip=true&rt=nc

As you can see it was for "Too poor to die" on Liberty.

I bid thinking [though perhaps I shoulda checked?] i was bidding on a UK Liberty copy [it was on UK Ebay]. When I got it unfortunately it was on Swedish. I got in touch right away and asked the seller if I could return it as I didn't want a Swedish copy and would not have bid if I had known. He informed me at first that and I quote" i never said it was a UK issue,,,and the pic clearly shows it isnt a UK issue,,they never came with pic sleeves,,and were blue/pale blue...."

I pointed out that I couldn't tell from the picture [i dont think its clear at all and looks like an UK issue with solid centre] and that he was thinking of "Train keep on moving" which is blue and that he didn't state it was on Swedish.

He reluctantly agreed after telling me not to bid on his auctions again. I sent it back today by recorded after he agreed and sent me his address yesterday,

Am I being unreasonable here ? The record is fine but just not what I thought I was bidding on.

So much for his "100% guarantee,,return for refund if not satisfied

ROD

[Markw]

Hardly the end of the world for the sake of fifteen quid really, is it?

[Guest tommymac]

saw that and i was gonna bid on it but then forgot (getting old) but it does look british so i would have been like you and wouldnt have wanted to keep it. have returned 3 things recently off e bay and not left negative comments so i dont believe everybodys 100% feedback

[Modernsoulsucks]

Hardly the end of the world for the sake of fifteen quid really, is it?

If I was still selling Mark I woulda kept it and put it in sales box at £15-20. But hardly worth carrying one 45 around. I knew second bid was £15 so I didn't think he'd have a problem taking it back and getting rid.

ROD

[Soul-slider]

That is a good looking 45, I'd have kept it at that price.

[Thecivilservice]

Like you say its not what you thought you were bidding on...not his fault! Also once he's reimbursed you what's the problem? I'd be annoyed too if a buyer messed me about like that

[Guest tommymac]

but if you collect british swedish aint any good to you. mind have bought a couple of records of SCO and found him to be a good dealer, think you must have caught him on a bad day. i know i have loads of them these days

[Modernsoulsucks]

Like you say its not what you thought you were bidding on...not his fault! Also once he's reimbursed you what's the problem? I'd be annoyed too if a buyer messed me about like that

There is no problem from my end. He will refund Im sure.

But it should have stated it was on Swedish.

ROD

[Peter99]

This thread makes me feel like there are two sorts of users on the site - one set of users who can post up their perceived issues and grievances with sellers and ebayers almost immediately because they are "riled" yet other posters have to wait until the mods have been involved and exhausted all other options. Just an observation - but it doesn't feel like level playing field to me.

Peter

[Autumnstoned]

I bought a Darrow Fletcher 45 off this seller recently which he posted without any stiffeners in the mailer. Of course it arrived with a crack but to be fair, he did refund promptly without any quibble and refunded postage.

[Modernsoulsucks]

This thread makes me feel like there are two sorts of users on the site - one set of users who can post up their perceived issues and grievances with sellers and ebayers almost immediately because they are "riled" yet other posters have to wait until the mods have been involved and exhausted all other options. Just an observation - but it doesn't feel like level playing field to me.

Peter

You can post up any grievances with Ebay sellers. If you look there are loads of them. You dont have to get moderator approval.

With sellers on here it is used only as a last resort. Better to sort out between buyer and seller behind the scenes with a little encouragement. And then if that fails both sides have their say in public. If dishonesty involved memberships have been revoked.

ROD

[Modernsoulsucks]

I bought a Darrow Fletcher 45 off this seller recently which he posted without any stiffeners in the mailer. Of course it arrived with a crack but to be fair, he did refund promptly without any quibble and refunded postage.

There were no stiffeners in mine either but just a cardboard sleeve. Suffice to say I put stiffeners in when I returned.

ROD

[Prophonics 2029]

I was duped for £29 and have lost £8.00 in return postage but its bitter taste I will always feel when I play the thing. Worth it to prove a point.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Prophonics 2029

[Modernsoulsucks]

Im not saying I was duped. Just that his ad wasn't clear.

Well I dont think so and was just wondering what others thought.

ROD

[Mr Smithy]

Pic sleeve does give a clue, but as to the 45 itself, hard to tell what it is.

All his pictures are crappy.

I'm not David bailey but I can do better than that, and so should anyone else be able to.

[Modernsoulsucks]

Yes he does mention pic sleeve but I didn't know. There were some sleeves in 60's mainly pop that were issued but just dont turn up. Thane Russell on CBS pops into my head.

I just thought "oh some had sleeves".

I agree though the pic is very vague. And of course unlike some pics there isn't a larger image available.

ROD

[boba]

I hope you sent it back with a tracking number so that you can use that for a paypal claim if you have to resort to that.

It's pretty stupid of the seller to keep bragging about having 100% positive, it's an invitation for you to leave him a negative an low DSRs.

[Markw]

I hope you sent it back with a tracking number so that you can use that for a paypal claim if you have to resort to that.

It's pretty stupid of the seller to keep bragging about having 100% positive, it's an invitation for you to leave him a negative an low DSRs.

Extremely harsh view given that the seller has acted honourably and (IMHO) beyond what they were obliged to do. Far from being stupid, I think this seller should be thanked for being so flexible and accomodating.

[boba]

Extremely harsh view given that the seller has acted honourably and (IMHO) beyond what they were obliged to do. Far from being stupid, I think this seller should be thanked for being so flexible and accomodating.

am I misreading the thread? rod said he had to argue with him to get him to take a return despite his 100% satisfaction return guarantee. That doesn't sound honorable to me. Either way, I don't care or know this seller, but my statement is true -- it is stupid to constantly point out your 100% feedback (not that that even means much) to someone who has the power to ruin that. How is that not stupid? That's like telling someone with a gun in front of you to not shoot you because you've never been shot before.

if someone has a problem with something i send them i refund their money and shipping when they send it back and don't argue with them. maybe every seller doesn't have to do that but they also shouldn't put anything about a 100% satisfaction return guarantee if they don't intend to.

[Markw]

Whatever. Still seems a lot of fuss about fifteen quid at the end of the day. And I suspect that's what's probably got the seller naffed off here and made him be a little difficult - having to unwind such a small deal over such a dull issue. Personally speaking, I would have taken the misunderstanding on the chin, had a laugh and told all my mates about the Swedish collection I was starting. After all, it's not as if the bloke hasn't agreed to unwind the deal. So if we're getting into semantics, it could hardly be described as an "Unsatisfactory Ebay Deal" because the seller has apparently agreed a refund. I just think the seller's getting undeservedly slagged off as if he set out deliberately to con buyers - from what I've read here, he sold the record as described. Maybe if he doesn't see it through on the refund............we shall see. We were asked for views on the matter, that's mine.

[boba]

i agree it clearly doesn't matter and i buy a lot of records on ebay, i also eat so much seller BS and misgraded records, poorly packed broken records, etc. At this point if the record is under $15 and arrives cracked due to poor packaging i throw it away and don't leave feedback or contact the seller. i don't want the seller to block me because if they do the next day they're going to have my holy grail 45 up. i'm actually not sure why rod posted actually, it did seem like a fairly minor thing.

i was just making a specific comment about flaunting 100% feedback to an unsatisfied buyer.

[Modernsoulsucks]

I do respect other views here from Mark etc.

Just trying to point out that I DIDNT know what was on offer and am not trying to fool him as he says in his message. I thought from ad it was UK liberty. It was Swedish. That wasn't stated. I had no idea it existed on Swedish so it wasn't like "I must check fully with him that it's not a Swedish copy"

I also have no intention of leaving negative feedback. I will get a refund and that will be it as far as Im concerned.

I just think a seller should stand behind what he sells and when I contacted him he should just have said "sorry, I should have added Swedish to description". Far from messing him about I paid for the 45 almost immediately and contacted him as soon as 45 arrived and I looked at it.

Its not like I expected a valuable UK Liberty copy and got a cheap Swedish copy. Probably little difference in actual value. And yes £15 isn't much but I am on the dole and dont have much spare cash so I'd rather I got something I actually wanted for my £15.

With hindsight and reading Soul Slider's comment I should have just put it on here for sale but if I had not sold it I would have been stuck with a 45 I didn't want.

And yes Boba I sent it back recorded so I will probably be out of pocket by a couple of quid.

ROD

[Chris L]

I see the seller has 100% positive feedback.

[Benji]

Rod, I'm on the seller's side. Not stating that it's a swedish issue doesn't make him liable for your mistake. If I was the seller I wouldn't have accepted any return just because of your wrong assumption.

[boba]

Do you also not state that the b-side is covered in feces? What is the dividing line where something has to be disclosed vs. not disclosed? Clearly the seller wasn't trying to misrepresent the item but rod also did reasonable due diligence as a buyer, he wasn't some idiot who bought a record he didn't like and decided to return it. It's a blurry line where the buyer should be able to return the item.

Any reasonable seller should take a record for almost any reason. I always take records back (happened a few times) and never felt a buyer was trying to get over on me. I treat people with the same respect I would expect as a buyer. If I learn a buyer is shady it's on them and I can eventually decide to deal or not deal with them. I haven't sold as many records as many people on here so maybe something changes when you sell many more records, but I believe reasonable customer service leads to good customers. If you take a record back, it's not like you're really out that much as a seller, you're (mostly) back to the same position you started with. If the customer can't return a record they're left in a position where they paid for something they didn't want and have a negative opinion of the seller.

Additionally, if the seller had a "100% satisfaction policy", that should be more than just words. I think if a seller made their return policy more explicit and wanted to not take items back in cases like these, they would have much fewer customers and people would think their auctions look super anti-customer. You would look like this guy, who I have never dealt with for obvious reasons:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LAMONT-DOZIER-CANT-GET-OFF-UNTIL-THE-FEELING-STOPS-1976-ORIGINAL-WB-DJ-45-/251217117436?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item3a7db500fc

I gotta say, I respect him for being honest with all his policies at least.

[jimmy clitheroe]

The Listing Says " Return if Not Satisfied" Rods Not Satisfied , So i Can't see what Seller Gripe is?? ... Paul

[Benji]

Do you also not state that the b-side is covered in feces? What is the dividing line where something has to be disclosed vs. not disclosed? Clearly the seller wasn't trying to misrepresent the item but rod also did reasonable due diligence as a buyer, he wasn't some idiot who bought a record he didn't like and decided to return it. It's a blurry line where the buyer should be able to return the item.

Bob, that's just bullshit (excuse the pun). You're referring to description of condition. And that should be as clearly as possible of course. Rod made a wrong assumption, period.

[boba]

Bob, that's just bullshit (excuse the pun). You're referring to description of condition. And that should be as clearly as possible of course. Rod made a wrong assumption, period.

I was giving an extreme example to make the point that there is a less extreme gray ground. I actually have a less extreme example from another message board -- the seller had like a 2 line auction with a photo that had a grade of the cover and record. The buyer was mad that the stock inner sleeve had writing on it and the seller said they never guaranteed or stated the condition of the inner sleeve (you could see it in the background of the photo, that there was an inner sleeve though). How clear is that case?

Also, if someone has a satisfaction guarantee, it shouldn't be a lie, otherwise make your actual guarantee (with crazy restocking fees, etc.) explicit. When you sell, put some bold text at the bottom about how you won't take items back for things you deem to be buyers mistakes (instead of "100% satisfaction guarantee") and see how excited people are to buy from you.

[boba]

The Listing Says " Return if Not Satisfied" Rods Not Satisfied , So i Can't see what Seller Gripe is?? ... Paul

exactly. it should say "returns accepted only if seller deems buyer to have an acceptable reason and that they did not misunderstand my description" if that's the actual return policy. if that's your attitude as a seller, put it out there.

[boba]

Also, I always get burned by sellers listing garbage pop/country/heavy metal records as soul. I do due diligence with any record I don't know -- google, etc. I was pissed recently because I had to argue with a seller who had a satisfaction guarantee wanting to refuse my return because the record was "not soul" because they said my reason was totally ridiculous. They also pointed me to a popsike auction that listed it as soul. I was very angry, and I would have gotten my money back via paypal anyways, but eventually I got them to refund on return. To them a popsike auction "proved" that it was a soul record. In the end they didn't benefit from acting like a dick.

[tosspot]

I bought a record from the USA last year for $10, when it arrived i was sooo disappointed i just binned it, oh well the world didn't stop turning

[Pete S]

Rod, I'm on the seller's side. Not stating that it's a swedish issue doesn't make him liable for your mistake. If I was the seller I wouldn't have accepted any return just because of your wrong assumption.

I totally disagree. The seller should have stated it was Swedish because if it's being sold on Ebay UK you would automatically expect it to be on UK Liberty. In fact it's very deceptive not to say so. Good sellers always put a full description of the item, if you bought a USA Kapp issue and it turned out to be a Canadian Kapp issue wouldn't you be upset? They both look identical except for the small print.

And £15, £10, or £300 it doesn't matter, I've just received a record which cost me £10, it was described as VG, so I knew what to expect, except it has heat damage throughout and is warped, should I keep that?

[Pete S]

For Sale: 5th Dimension - Too Poor To Die - Super rare Swedish LIberty (looks just like UK issue but better!) with the bonus of having it's mega rare picture sleeve featuring a great shot of the band.

Be quick, You won't see this one around for a while.

£40, absolute bargain.

[Swifty]

Won this last week , now I'm not blaming the seller but myself as I'd had a glass or three and it nearing the end of the auction .

I only read the main title Doh!!!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RONNIE-LOVE-NORTHERN-SOUL-45-Chills-And-Fever-Excellent-/321053127790?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&nma=true&si=gKd2Rn%252BHY2jsBoFuJEHG19aOo50%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Dont even like the bloody record but thought I might make a couple of quid and move it on

Swifty

[Benji]

I totally disagree. The seller should have stated it was Swedish because if it's being sold on Ebay UK you would automatically expect it to be on UK Liberty. In fact it's very deceptive not to say so. Good sellers always put a full description of the item, if you bought a USA Kapp issue and it turned out to be a Canadian Kapp issue wouldn't you be upset? They both look identical except for the small print.

Of course seller should have stated origin of record. But just because he didn't doesn't make him liable for buyer not asking prior to bidding. Deceptive? No, not at all. If he had something along the lines "Looks like UK issue" I might agree. Just because an item is listed on Ebay UK makes you thinking it's actually british? Come on, that's pretty simple-minded isn't it?

Yes, I would be upset if I wanted an US copy and received a canadian. But wouldn't blame the seller unless he said it's US. I'd blame myself for not asking before bidding.

And £15, £10, or £300 it doesn't matter, I've just received a record which cost me £10, it was described as VG, so I knew what to expect, except it has heat damage throughout and is warped, should I keep that?

Seems you and Bob just don't get it. I'm not talking about the condition of the record.

[boba]

edit: this thread is stupid at this point, i think you're trolling me and if not, who cares

[Benji]

Also, I always get burned by sellers listing garbage pop/country/heavy metal records as soul. I do due diligence with any record I don't know -- google, etc. I was pissed recently because I had to argue with a seller who had a satisfaction guarantee wanting to refuse my return because the record was "not soul" because they said my reason was totally ridiculous. They also pointed me to a popsike auction that listed it as soul. I was very angry, and I would have gotten my money back via paypal anyways, but eventually I got them to refund on return. To them a popsike auction "proved" that it was a soul record. In the end they didn't benefit from acting like a dick.

Bob, you returned a record listed in "soul" because to you it wasn't soul? Not sure it's the seller acting like a dick. If you had tried that on me I'd block you straight away.

[boba]

Bob, you returned a record listed in "soul" because to you it wasn't soul? Not sure it's the seller acting like a dick. If you had tried that on me I'd block you straight away.

maybe you should pre-block me if you think it's acceptable to describe a country record as soul

[Pete S]

Of course seller should have stated origin of record. But just because he didn't doesn't make him liable for buyer not asking prior to bidding. Deceptive? No, not at all. If he had something along the lines "Looks like UK issue" I might agree. Just because an item is listed on Ebay UK makes you thinking it's actually british? Come on, that's pretty simple-minded isn't it?

Yes, I would be upset if I wanted an US copy and received a canadian. But wouldn't blame the seller unless he said it's US. I'd blame myself for not asking before bidding.

Seems you and Bob just don't get it. I'm not talking about the condition of the record.

Benji I sell a lot of records and I always get people trying it on, claiming this and claiming that so don't think I'm not on the sellers side, but if I had listed say a Dutch 45 on ebay and not mentioned it was Dutch, I would not be surprised if the customer complained.

[boba]

Also, trolling or not, I wouldn't put all this out there Benji if you sell records and believe or don't believe all the things you're saying

[Chris L]

Won this last week , now I'm not blaming the seller but myself as I'd had a glass or three and it nearing the end of the auction . I only read the main title Doh!!! https://www.ebay.co.u...cvip=true&rt=nc Dont even like the bloody record but thought I might make a couple of quid and move it on

Swifty

Aahh............................the dreaded combo.......booze & Ebay, guaranteed to turn a real mans man into a sissy jelly baby

[Markw]

Also, I always get burned by sellers listing garbage pop/country/heavy metal records as soul. I do due diligence with any record I don't know -- google, etc. I was pissed recently because I had to argue with a seller who had a satisfaction guarantee wanting to refuse my return because the record was "not soul" because they said my reason was totally ridiculous. They also pointed me to a popsike auction that listed it as soul. I was very angry, and I would have gotten my money back via paypal anyways, but eventually I got them to refund on return. To them a popsike auction "proved" that it was a soul record. In the end they didn't benefit from acting like a dick.

Well that really is a matter of subjective argument. We all know there are shed loads of records out there which are not 'soul' but which get played as such on the many 'soul' scenes around the globe. Frankly, there are many many records played on soul scenes which would never stand up to being called soul, but they are.

[boba]

Well that really is a matter of subjective argument. We all know there are shed loads of records out there which are not 'soul' but which get played as such on the many 'soul' scenes around the globe. Frankly, there are many many records played on soul scenes which would never stand up to being called soul, but they are.

i can play you 100% country and 80s heavy metal records that i have been sold as soul. i actually have a stack of them probably a foot high now. i don't even deal with returning them or say anything to the seller if they are like $10 records. They are all ungoogleable private label things. And the gamble usually works in my favor.

[boba]

i can play you 100% country and 80s heavy metal records that i have been sold as soul. i actually have a stack of them probably a foot high now. i don't even deal with returning them or say anything to the seller if they are like $10 records. They are all ungoogleable private label things. And the gamble usually works in my favor.

and just to clarify, these aren't sellers who know anything about any soul scene, they are people who know zero about soul music and put everything there because they are greedy

[Jnixon]

since when has someone not having the same view as you been trolling im wondering.

[Pete S]

maybe you should pre-block me if you think it's acceptable to describe a country record as soul

But surely you could research that to find out what sort of music it is?

[boba]

since when has someone not having the same view as you been trolling im wondering.

when they say it's acceptable to sell a country record as soul and when they say "100% satisfaction guarantee" means that a buyer can't return a record based on a misunderstanding of something that was not explicit in the description.

[boba]

But surely you could research that to find out what sort of music it is?

read my post, i google every unknown record i bid on

[boba]

when they say it's acceptable to sell a country record as soul and when they say "100% satisfaction guarantee" means that a buyer can't return a record based on a misunderstanding of something that was not explicit in the description.

and then say that I'm being a dick for asking a seller who sold a straight country record as soul to take it back

[davidwapples]

i was gutted when i bought a copy of frank wilson on auction , wanted a copy and paid £25000 to guarantee a good one , you should have seen my face when this record without a centre arrived that had some writing on the label arrived , i was so upset