Questions, Always Questions.....detroit Related?

[Wilxy]

As a "mature student" in the "art" of collecting strictly Detroit produced 45's, which in itself apart from the obvious, sometimes proves to be a bit of a "minefield".....particularly with regard to the labels outside of the Motor City, containing Detroit produced material within their portfolio! Now whilst I'd love to have such total knowledge, sometimes even written material throws up some anomalies, and furthermore adds to confusing me somewhat?

I have over the years picked up several items believing them to be produced in Detroit but have been proved to be a bit off the mark so to speak! I therefore having been going through my collection slowly, have the following such anomalies I'd really like to address, so if anyone could be so kind as to reiterate their production whereabouts, I'd be very grateful

Here's a few for starters, and whilst I have sought advice on some of them them would respectfully seek second opinions!

Masqueraders-How big is big-Bell

Luther Ingram-Run for your life-Hurdy-Gurdy

Roger Hatcher-Sweetest girl in the world-Excello

We the people-Making my daydream real-Lion

Thanks in anticipation

Kind Regards wilxy.....

Edited January 14, 2013 by wilxy

[Guest Dave Turner]

As a "mature student" in the "art" of collecting strictly Detroit produced 45's, which in itself apart from the obvious, sometimes proves to be a bit of a "minefield".....particularly with regard to the labels outside of the Motor City, containing Detroit produced material within their portfolio! Now whilst I'd love to have such total knowledge, sometimes even written material throws up some anomalies, and furthermore adds to confusing me somewhat?

I have over the years picked up several items believing them to be produced in Detroit but have been proved to be a bit off the mark so to speak! I therefore having been going through my collection slowly, have the following such anomalies I'd really like to address, so if anyone could be so kind as to reiterate their production whereabouts, I'd be very grateful

Here's a few for starters, and whilst I have sought advice on some of them them would respectfully seek second opinions!

Masqueraders-How big is big-Bell

Luther Ingram-Run for your life-Hurdy-Gurdy

Roger Hatcher-Sweetest girl in the world-Excello

We the people-Making my daydream real-Lion

Thanks in anticipation

Kind Regards wilxy.....

John Ridley's site states Roger Hatcher was cut in Nashville .. 4th paragraph

https://www.sirshambling.com/artists_2012/H/roger_hatcher/index.php

[Dave Rimmer]

Sweetest Girl In The World was recorded and produced in Nashville as far as I can remember

[Guest Dave Turner]

I'm sure the Masqueraders Bell outings were cut at American Studios, Memphis

[Dave Thorley]

As a "mature student" in the "art" of collecting strictly Detroit produced 45's, which in itself apart from the obvious, sometimes proves to be a bit of a "minefield".....particularly with regard to the labels outside of the Motor City, containing Detroit produced material within their portfolio! Now whilst I'd love to have such total knowledge, sometimes even written material throws up some anomalies, and furthermore adds to confusing me somewhat?

I have over the years picked up several items believing them to be produced in Detroit but have been proved to be a bit off the mark so to speak! I therefore having been going through my collection slowly, have the following such anomalies I'd really like to address, so if anyone could be so kind as to reiterate their production whereabouts, I'd be very grateful

Here's a few for starters, and whilst I have sought advice on some of them them would respectfully seek second opinions!

Masqueraders-How big is big-Bell, Memphis recording

Luther Ingram-Run for your life-Hurdy-Gurdy Believe this was a Detroit recording, was written while he was there anyway

Roger Hatcher-Sweetest girl in the world-Excello Nashville

We the people-Making my daydream real-Lion As it has Bert DeCoteaux on arrangements, think it's unlikely to be Detroit

Thanks in anticipation

Kind Regards wilxy.....

[Sean Hampsey]

Yes Dave, "How Big Is Big" "Please Take Me Back" "I Ain't Got To Love Nobody Else" etc. were all recorded at American in Memphis.

Sean

[Dave Thorley]

When I spoke with the

Yes Dave, "How Big Is Big" "Please Take Me Back" "I Ain't Got To Love Nobody Else" etc. were all recorded at American in Memphis.

Sean

When I meet the guys in Memphis, they told me that they went to American Group in Memphis after being introduced by Bobby Womack. Bobby was working there at the time and had heard about their mis-adventure in Detroit.

[grant]

We The People - hollywood methinks.

[Roburt]

Plus you have to be a bit careful with stuff like the Platters 'Going Back To Detroit' tracks.

The backing tracks were definitely from Detroit (used on earlier indie label tracks).

The orig vocals were removed & the tracks sent off to Musicor in New York.

Sonny Turner would then fly in to New York, learn the lyrics, enter the studio with some local backing singers & then cut the required tracks.

By tea-time, he'd be out of the city & flying back to join the rest of the group on their next live engagement.

So, the music is Detroit recorded but none of the vocals were.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Roburt

[Premium Stuff]

Wilxy

There's a thread on here about the Detroit or otherwise credentials of Luther Ingram. I think I started it. I think we decided it counted as Detroit (or Detroit connected enough).

Have a search.

Cheers

Richard

Edited January 14, 2013 by Premium Stuff

[Wilxy]

Thanx Guys, please feel free to keep the information inbound, I appreciate all replies, and doubt I'll ever get the "L Plates" off on the subject in my lifetime,so sincerely respect ALL the information received

Best wilxy

[boba]

I'm pretty sure we the people is 100% east coast with no other connections (although that record did get a lot of play in chicago...)

[Wilxy]

I've probably got more where these come from.......... especially not made in Detroit

I'll be back....no doubt

[Premium Stuff]

Here's that thread on Luther Ingram (Hurdy-Gurdy):

Cheers

Richard

[Robbk]

By 1964, Robert Bateman was working a lot more out of New York than Detroit (only worked with Popcorn Wylie on the HIB record, and with Mary Wells for 20th Century Fox in Detroit). As far as I know, Luther Ingram's vocals were being recorded only in New York (both on his HIB and Smash cuts). The Smash instrumental tracks were arranged by Richard Tee, and recorded in New York. The HIB instrumentals were arranged by popcorn Wylie and recorded in Detroit. I suspect that Ingram's Hurdy-Gurdy vocals were recorded in New York. Not sure about the instrumentals, but, I think that New York is more likely than Detroit. Bateman was working almost exclusively in New York, starting in 1965. He used Richard Tee, Pretty Purdie and many of the best New York session players to successfully "mimic" the "Motown Sound" and the "Detroit Sound". Once in a while he had an old colleague in Detroit lay down an instrumental track or two. But, he found his artists and wrote his songs out of his New York office.

Regarding some misinformation on that Robert Bateman thread: There is a misconception about "Brianbert Music". BrianBert was the name for The Brian Holland/Robert Bateman and Brian Holland/Robert Bateman/Freddie Gorman writing/production teams at Motown from 1960 to early 1962. Robert Bateman later used that same name for his personal music publishing company (with royalty rights shared with NO ONE ELSE). So, Brianbert Music has no connection with Brian Holland.

Bateman had used it for his publishing company as a bit of irony. He had a bone to pick with Brian Holland, because, in early 1962, Brian and Eddie had told Robert that they were leaving Motown to join Wilbur Golden's new Correc-Tone Records (along with Mickey Stevenson and Popcorn Wylie), and that he (Bateman) and Sonny Sanders should come along with them, because Golden was offering better jobs and big salaries. Bateman and Sanders left Motown in late spring, 1962. But, soon after he quit Motown, Robert found out that both Holland brothers and stevenson had backed out at the last moment, and stayed with Motown. That was when Berry Gordy made Mickey Stevenson chief A&R man of Motown (ostensibly because he threatened to leave), and probably paid Brian and Eddie "secret" bonuses to stay with Motown. Bateman, Sanders the rest of The Satintones and Popcorn Wylie had already quit Motown and signed with Golden when they heard that the 3 others had backed out. (Had they also joined Golden's team, maybe we would all be worshipping "The Correc-Tone Sound" now, and Motown would have been just another Detroit Soul label). With Stevenson and Brian Holland out of the picture, Golden made Bateman chief A&R man of Correc-Tone. Wylie became a major producer, Sonny Sanders became an arranger, and the remaining Satintones added 2 members to replace Bateman and Sanders, and became The Pyramids. Bateman formed his own music company to publish Correc-Tone's songs (later he used it just for his own productions). Bateman worked out of Detroit, but Golden kept running short of money to press and distribute Correc-Tone's records. So he sent Bateman to New York to market their product (e.g. lease masters to other, bigger labels (Brent/Time, Atlantic, Double-L, VJ) ). While there, Bateman made connections with other writers and producers, local New York singers and groups, and, so, did some writing and producing on his own, and placed those recordings with other labels.

Logic suggests that both Brian Holland AND Robert Bateman had made a deal with Golden that they would share the music publishing rights for all Correc-Tone songs written by their production team. Apparently, Stevenson would have had a different one for his own productions, or he had already backed out by the time Bateman had registered the name. But, clearly The Hollands had not, or Bateman would have changed the name, to one that reflected him, alone. He made it clear in his interview, that he was leaving because of a mass exodus of production and songwriting talent from Motown to Correc-Tone, and was shocked to find out half the conspirators bailed out, behind his back, leaving him in the lurch. That opening allowed him to make a deal with Golden to run the day to day operations of the new label (and its SonBert subsidiary), and, apparently, to retain publishing rights to songs written under his production wing (Golden kept rights to all other Correc-Tone songs, produced by others (Wylie and Don Juan Mancha) under his "Correc-Tone Music"). So Bateman "inherited" the compound music publisher name, chosen, ostensibly, by Bateman and Holland, together, as a little dig into the hide of Berry Gordy, for not recognising the value his producers were bringing to his company through increased monetary compensation. It also stands to reason, that The Hollands and Stevenson were talked out of leaving by a raise in pay from Gordy, but Bateman and Wylie were offered too little to make them change their minds.

The Correc-Tone "Webisode" on Soulful Detroit Website states that Lamont Dozier had also agreed with Wilbur Golden to leaveMotown and come to Correc-Tone in spring 1962, but he also was enticed to stay by Gordy. It states that "in addition to giving them a nice salary, he bought them all new cars".

Edited January 16, 2013 by RobbK

[Robbk]

Upon listening to the two Hurdy Gurdy sides and also "Oh Baby Don't You Weep" by Luther Ingram on Kent. I don't hear Detroit session players on ANY of the three recordings. They ALL sound like New York. One side of the Hurdy-Gurdy record is published by Emmalou Music, which was the New York partnership between Robert Bateman and Lou Courtney from 1967-1971 or so (showing that the record had to be released no earlier than 1967. I Believe that Bateman recorded "Oh Baby Don't You Weep" after 1966 also in New York. It was a BrianBert song in his own catalogue, that was written in 1962 by Fred Bridges, under the auspices of Bateman, probably originally planned to be used by Correc-Tone, but because Golden was having cash-flow problems, with not enough money to press and distribute his own records, Bateman decided to keep this record for himself, and place it with a New York label WITHOUT putting it under the Correc-Tone umbrella, and, so, without sharing the proceeds with Golden. In 1966 or 1967, after having split from Golden's Correc-Tone for 3 or 4 years, Bateman recorded the song again with one of his new artists, Luther Ingram, in New York. The sax player doesn't sound like Mike Terry to me.

[Ady Croasdell]

Fantastic reading Robb, thanks so much.

One point is Luther Ingram Oh Baby was recorded in Nov 1964 in NYC.

Also is there a list of the Correc Tone sides on other labels anywhere?

Ady

[Robbk]

Fantastic reading Robb, thanks so much.

One point is Luther Ingram "Oh Baby" was recorded in Nov 1964 in NYC.

Also is there a list of the Correc-Tone sides on other labels anywhere?

Ady

Thanks for that info. Then, "Oh Baby" was recorded not long after Ingram's HIB and Smash recordings (if not at the same time). No, I've never seen a complete list of Correc-Tone's recordings. Golden's cash-flow problems due to paying several high salaries and, mainly, due to having Bateman direct building his new recording studio, caused Golden to partner up with many different independent producers in co-productions that left ownership and rights very fuzzy. Here is what I can remember from my collection off the top of my head (in addition to the well-known leases of Correc-Tone 501 & 502 (Wilson Pickett and James Velvet) and SonBert (Pyramids) leased to Cub Records in spring 1962:

The following all recorded in Detroit (presumably in Correc-Tone's studio) :

Brent 7033-"Devil In His Heart"/"Bad Boy"-Donays-Produced and arranged by Popcorn Wylie

Brent 7035-"Wondering If You Miss Me"/"I Know How It Feels"-Laura Johnson-Produced by Robert Bateman, arranged by Willie Harbert (Johnson was Golden's and Correc-Tone's office secretary)

Time 1055-"You Lied"/"Later For You Baby"-Marva Josie-Produced by Robert Bateman, arranged by Willie Harbert

VJ 489-"Shakin' Fit"/"What Is Love"-Pyramids-Produced by Robert Bateman, arranged by Sonny Sanders

Versatile 111-"Baby don't You Weep"/"It Must Be love"-Fred Bridges-Produced by Robert Bateman, arranged by Sonny Sanders

Golden also funded and had Bateman record 3 songs by Edward Hamilton & Arabians (including "What'Cha Bet'Cha"), at Correc-Tone Studio, which never were put onto vinyl. They have been lost.

Checker 1041-"The Boy For Me"/"Is It A Sin"-Timiko (Jones)-A side produced by Bateman (Tamiko was his girlfriend)-B side by Bateman and Wylie, probably arranged by Sanders or Harbert

Prince-Adams 447-"Red Pepper I & II"-Roosevelt Fountain & Pens of Rhythm-Produced by Sam Motley and R. Adams (patnership between Golden & Motley

Hit (also Hit Productions) 101-"Don't Take Your Love From Me"/"Happiest Man In The Land"-Moments (Detroit-Herschel Hunter group)-Produced by Robert Bateman and Herman Griffin, arranged by Sonny Sanders-(Griffin owned the label-partnering with Golden on 101, and probably Robert West on 3588).

Hit Productions 3588-"It's Been A Long Time"/"Your Turn"-Ruby Yates & Swinging Rocks-Produced & arranged by Herman Griffin

Double-L 713-"If You Need Me"/"Baby Call On Me"-Wilson Pickett-Producer Robert Bateman, arranger-Sonny Sanders-recorded in Correc-Tone studio

All Double-L Produced in Detroit and/or in New York by Robert Bateman-Detroit sessions probably arranged by Sonny Sanders, New York sessions arranger unknown (may have been arranged by Bateman, Richard Tee, Teacho Wiltshire or Bill Ramal).

Double-L 717-"I'm Gonna Love You"/"It's Too Late"-Wilson Pickett-vocals recorded in NY

Double-L 724-"I'm Down To My Last Heartbreak"/"I Can't Stop"-vocals recorded in NY

Double-L LP SDL 8300 "It's Too Late"-Wilson Pickett-Produced by Robert Bateman, (originally slated as Correc-Tone project-but funded by Pickett when Golden ran out of cash-and Bateman sold it to Lloyd Price (Double-L))-most vocals and some BG tracks recorded in NY)

Double-L 716-"My Tears"/"Thank You Love"-Buddy Lamp-Produced by Bateman -BG tracks probably recorded in Detroit, vocals in New York

Double-L 718-"Mr. Heartbreak"/"Never Trust Your Girlfriend"-Herman Griffin--Produced by Robert Bateman in Detroit, probably arranged by Sonny Sanders

Double-L 726 & 727 (Debs, Shawn Elliott and Johnny Dunn recorded completely in New York, and were totally Bateman as an independent producer selling to Lloyd & Logan's Double-L-with never a connection to Correc-Tone and Golden.

Edited January 18, 2013 by RobbK

[Ady Croasdell]

Thanks Robb,

That is most helpful in building the picture of Detroit's recording scene. I'll look at the SDF feature too. You mentioned Atlantic in an earlier post, whiuch was that?

Ady

[Robbk]

Thanks Robb,

That is most helpful in building the picture of Detroit's recording scene. I'll look at the SDF feature too. You mentioned Atlantic in an earlier post, whiuch was that?

Ady

I'm not sure to what about Atlantic you are referring, but Golden had a distribution deal with Atlantic for Correc-Tone's two Theresa Lindsey releases (at the end of Correc-Tone's run, and Herman Griffin's Hit Productions Records (Moments) was also distributed by them.

Also, Atlantic released one single with Wilson Pickett (first Atlantic release) singing a Correc-Tone song. I don't know if that was a track off a tape Bateman had recorded in Detroit (along with "If You Need Me"), or if it is one he recorded in NY (the latter seems more likely) as an independent before selling to Double-L. But, if that were the case, I wonder why he didn't cut Wilson singing over it for the Double-L LP, or, if he HAD done that, why it didn't appear on that LP. If Atlantic recorded it after signing Pickett, then, it was just a Correc-tone song that Wilson had practised, but not recorded while with Correc-Tone, and later, convinced Jerry Wexler that he should be allowed to sing it.

[Ady Croasdell]

Bateman worked out of Detroit, but Golden kept running short of money to press and distribute Correc-Tone's records. So he sent Bateman to New York to market their product (e.g. lease masters to other, bigger labels (Brent/Time, Atlantic, Double-L, VJ) ).

I was just referring to what you had stated there Robb

[Robbk]

Sorry. Golden didn't lease any masters to Atlantic. He just sold them the publishing rights to "If You Need Me". Unless he sold the recording of Pickett singing that Correc-tone song (sorry, i forget which one it is. but, I seem to remember that it was the flip of pickett's 2nd Atlantic 45. I doubt that it was a Correc-Tone recording. Probably just one of their songs that Pickett wanted to record (which got done, later, with Atlantic (or, perhaps, Bateman recorded it as an independent in NY, and sold it to Atlantic?).

[Rob Wigley]

Where's Gilly ?

[Robbk]

Ady-Here's the other Correc-Tone/Atlantic connection: Atlantic 2233- "For better Or Worse"/"I'm Gonna Cry"-by Wilson Pickett, with Don Juan Mancha and Robert Bateman participating. Both songs were published by Correc-Tone Music, and shared publishing rights with Atlantic's Cotillion Music. We know that the vocals on these were recorded in New York, either by Robert Bateman at Bell Sound BEFORE Pickett signed with Atlantic, or by Jerry Wexler's Atlantic crew after, using songs Atlantic had bought. The songs were written, probably at the same time as "If You Need Me", and Pickett's other Brianbert songs, for expected Wilson Pickett future Correc-Tone Records singles and, if all would go well, an LP. What is interesting, is that although they were written by Don Mancha's production crew, rather than Bateman's, and, so, Golden had the publishing rights (Correc-Tone Music), rather than Bateman (Brianbert Music). Therefore, it is most likely that Golden sold half shares of these two songs to Atlantic at the same time as he sold full rights to "If You Need Me". Therefore, it's most likely that Pickett's new, Atlantic producers, and he, himself, decided to record himself singing them AFTER Pickett signed with Atlantic, rather than Bateman having had recorded the backing tracks and Pickett's vocals, beforehand, under Correc-Tone's or his own, independent auspices (e.g. they were likely 100% Atlantic, rather than Correc-Tone recordings)..

[Wilxy]

When I spoke with the

When I meet the guys in Memphis, they told me that they went to American Group in Memphis after being introduced by Bobby Womack. Bobby was working there at the time and had heard about their mis-adventure in Detroit.

As an aside with regard the Masqueraders, could anyone confirm their Detroit produced tracks, other than the Labeat material?

[Guest Dave Turner]

I think all of their Detroit stuff was just La Beat.

Prior to the La Beat outoings they were in Texas and then left Detroit for Memphis

[Premium Stuff]

I think all of their Detroit stuff was just La Beat.

Prior to the La Beat outoings they were in Texas and then left Detroit for Memphis

That's my understanding too Dave.

Cheers

Richard

Edited January 18, 2013 by Premium Stuff

[Mark Jones]

I appreciate all replies, and doubt I'll ever get the "L Plates" off on the subject in my lifetime

Best wilxy

31 years on I'm still wearing them!!

[Wilxy]

That's my understanding too Dave.

Cheers

Richard

Including the Wand releases?

[Premium Stuff]

Yes mate

Wand tracks were recorded in Memphis I believe

Cheers

Richard

[Robbk]

As an aside with regard the Masqueraders, could anyone confirm their Detroit produced tracks, other than the Labeat material?

I've never heard of any Masqueraders' cuts that were produced in Detroit and released on a label other than laBeat.

[Premium Stuff]

I've got one on this theme

Jimmy McFarland - Lonely Lover (RPR)

Remember this being featured in Rod Dearlove's 'Collectors Guide to Detroit' way back when

• Hollywood label
  
• Detroit writing and publishing credits
  
• West Coast arranging and production credits (presumably?)
  

So is this an OK one to have in a Detroit collection or not?

I'm guessing not, but would be nice to check with the Detroit Soul Police before ditching it

Cheers

Richard

Edited February 15, 2013 by Premium Stuff

[Robbk]

I've got one on this theme

Jimmy McFarland - Lonely Lover (RPR)

Remember this being featured in Rod Dearlove's 'Collectors Guide to Detroit' way back when

• Hollywood label
  
• Detroit writing and publishing credits
  
• West Coast arranging and production credits (presumably?)
  

So is this an OK one to have in a Detroit collection or not?

I'm guessing not, but would be nice to check with the Detroit Soul Police before ditching it

Cheers

Richard

It was a 100% L.A. production, with no Detroit people involved (other than the songwriters (who wrote it while with Motown). It's just a case of an artist or producer wanting to sing (or his singer to sing) a particular Motown song. it should NOT be in a Detroit collection, any more than The Rolling Stones' (bloody awful) version of "My Girl", or The Beatles' version of "Please Mr. Postman, and no more than The Marvelettes' version of "That's How Heartaches are Made" is a New York record.

[Premium Stuff]

It was a 100% L.A. production, with no Detroit people involved (other than the songwriters (who wrote it while with Motown). It's just a case of an artist or producer wanting to sing (or his singer to sing) a particular Motown song. it should NOT be in a Detroit collection, any more than The Rolling Stones' (bloody awful) version of "My Girl", or The Beatles' version of "Please Mr. Postman, and no more than The Marvelettes' version of "That's How Heartaches are Made" is a New York record.

Cheers Robb - thanks very much for confirming.

Richard

[Premium Stuff]

OK then - what about Ronnie Savoy on Tuff?

 

Richard

[Robbk]

OK then - what about Ronnie Savoy on Tuff?

 

Richard

That was completely a New York production.  All 3 Hamilton brothers operated out of New York when they weren't in Detroit.  Most of Ronny Savoy's cuts were New York productions (MGM and Epic).   His Detroit period (with Golden World/Ric Tic/Wingate from 1965/66) was a relatively short period of his career.

[Premium Stuff]

Thanks Robb - great stuff!

 

Hey - just realised I seem to have hijacked Wilxy's thread 

 

Richard

[Roburt]

......... FOR ANYONE INTERESTED IN EARLY DETROIT SOUL TRACKS .........

'History of Soul' Records is a newish CD company operating out of the UK at present.

They take 'out of copyright' soul tracks & put together double 'themed' CD releases.
So far, they have about 8 CD packages out ........ go here to see details & track listings .......
https://www.historyofsoul.net/

But they have at least another 8 releases in development. One of these is ......
'Detroit Soul 1957 - 1962'. As yet, I don't have the full track listing for this one but it will include cuts by the Barons, Fabulous Playboys, Melvin Davis, Johnnie Mae Mathews, Timmy Shaw, Falcons, J J Barnes, Walter Hamilton, etc.

Each release comes with a detailed CD booklet that sets out the facts surrounding the cuts included in the package.

Don't know who they have commissioned to write the Detroit CD notes but the booklet notes I have read for existing releases are good.

[Robbk]

There are lots of nice and interesting cuts on that CD.  Well worth buying for the "history of Detroit Soul fan".

[Premium Stuff]

......... FOR ANYONE INTERESTED IN EARLY DETROIT SOUL TRACKS .........

'History of Soul' Records is a newish CD company operating out of the UK at present.

They take 'out of copyright' soul tracks & put together double 'themed' CD releases.

So far, they have about 8 CD packages out ........ go here to see details & track listings .......

https://www.historyofsoul.net/

But they have at least another 8 releases in development. One of these is ......

'Detroit Soul 1957 - 1962'. As yet, I don't have the full track listing for this one but it will include cuts by the Barons, Fabulous Playboys, Melvin Davis, Johnnie Mae Mathews, Timmy Shaw, Falcons, J J Barnes, Walter Hamilton, etc.

Each release comes with a detailed CD booklet that sets out the facts surrounding the cuts included in the package.

Don't know who they have commissioned to write the Detroit CD notes but the booklet notes I have read for existing releases are good.

 

Yes, sounds brilliant - when is it out? 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[Wilxy]

Thanks Robb - great stuff!

 

Hey - just realised I seem to have hijacked Wilxy's thread 

 

Richard

Revived being more apt I think Richard   

wilxy

[Roburt]

 

 

 

Yes, sounds brilliant - when is it out? 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

Richard,

                 I've got the leaflet about the CD at home & I'm away again at present.

It does give a date when its out. Its later this year but I can't recall if its in the summer or later than that.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Roburt

[Ian Dewhirst]

Interesting that all these have now fallen into public domain. It's good that people are keeping this era alive.....

 

Ian D

[Ady Croasdell]

The only problem with the Out Of Copyright merchants is that the artists and label owners won't earn anything for their great work. Ace / Kent still license and pay royalties on pre 1963 recordings as Melvin Davies for one will confirm

[Roburt]

This was Detroit, even though it escaped on a New York label  ..........

Was it on Daco first & then picked up by Apollo for wider distribution ?

Edited May 16, 2013 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Guess there was no connection between these later  (Chicago based?) Fabulous Playboys (with Thomas East) and the outfit above (who became the Falcons on Atlantic, LuPine, Big Wheel & Moira).

 

Edited May 16, 2013 by Roburt

[Robbk]

Guess there was no connection between these later  (Chicago based?) Fabulous Playboys (with Thomas East) and the outfit above (who became the Falcons on Atlantic, LuPine, Big Wheel & Moira).

 

No connection, I would guess.  Detroit's Fabulous Playboys became The (New) Falcons.  So their name was fair game to be used by new groups in cities other than Detroit. I suspect that Thomas East was a Chicagoan, and his fellow group members were also all Chicagoans, much younger than any of The Fabulous Playboys, who started singing in the early 1950s.

[Roburt]

A short piece on Bob Bateman & his biggest song at Motown .........

 https://www.alexandermagazine.com/recordingeq/weeklytip/06tip03-3b_new.asp

 

I know Bateman was working for Mercury in 1965/66, probably in New York (or maybe Chicago) ?

So how come he came to end up working in New York and no longer being a part of the Motown team .....

....... was he 'sidelined' there & thought he could do better working 'independently' ? 

Edited May 17, 2013 by Roburt

[Robbk]

Bateman never worked for Mercury Records.  He was an independent producer, working almost exclusively in New York in 1965 and 1966 (still producing a couple records in Detroit).  He had a couple of his productions leased to Mercury affiliates during those years.  He had some of his NY productions on many, many labels (20th Century Fox, ABC, Philips, Smash, Capitol, Atlantic, MGM, Riverside, Buddah, etc.).

 

He left Motown in spring 1962, when Wilbur Golden started Correc-Tone Records, and enticed some Motowners to "jump ship" to his new label.  Mickey Stevenson, lamont Dozier, The Holland Brothers, Popcorn Wylie, Sonny Sanders  and the rest of The Satintones were ready to move.  But Berry Gordy persuaded HDH and Stevenson to stay by buying them new cars and offering them high regular salaries.  His offers to Bateman, Sanders and Wylie were too low to keep them, so they jumped (not knowing that the others were staying).  Already within 6 months, Golden was running out of cash, having put out a lot to have Bateman build him a new recording studio, and also paying for recording and pressing of Correc-Tone's and SonBert's first few releases.  So, Golden sent Bateman to New York to try to lease some of their Correc-Tone recordings and sell publishing to some of their songs.  Bateman spent increasingly more time in New York than Detroit, while selling off and leasing Correc-Tone product in the remainder of 1962 and throughout 1963, also working on his own independent productions there, as Golden didn't have the money to pay him his salary.  Bateman ended up staying permanently in New York, but returning to Detroit for specific productions (Luther Ingram on HIB, Mary Wells 20th Century Fox recordings, etc.  By early 1964, Bateman had split from Golden and Correc-Tone, and become an independent NY producer.

[Roburt]

Bateman never worked for Mercury Records.  He was an independent producer, working almost exclusively in New York in 1965 and 1966 (still producing a couple records in Detroit).  

Not according to Mercury Records press briefings given at the very end of 1965 & reported by the likes of Billboard. See below .........

........ seems Mercury were takin loads of outside guys on at that time; Curtis Mayfield, Major Lance, Chip Taylor, Shadow Morton, Dave Bartholomew, Jerry Ross, Ted Cooper, Carl Spencer, Pac 4, Major Bill Smith & Bob Bateman .............