1963-2013 Soul Music Rip

[Pete S]

You're prob right Boba, but anyway, bigger discussions are afoot! I see 'northern soul clothes' are about to go mainstream, so never mind that the mag has lost the plot, be prepared for the onslaught of fancy dress on a high street near you LOL

https://www.youtube....bed/Nb4nQShIMxU

GROAN!

Paul already a big topic about this an nowhere near enough outrage being shown!

[Steve L]

You're prob right Boba, but anyway, bigger discussions are afoot! I see 'northern soul clothes' are about to go mainstream, so never mind that the mag has lost the plot, be prepared for the onslaught of fancy dress on a high street near you LOL

https://www.youtube....bed/Nb4nQShIMxU

GROAN!

Jesus thats a new low

Back on topic, this thread's about burgers aint it

[davidwapples]

Just see someone at the allnighter burger van after too many shandys ...Can i have a mel britt reissue ,a manifesto and 2 copies of Manships latest price guide please , one with onions

Edited January 14, 2013 by davidwapples

[Sutty]

Not in those trousers son

[jocko]

WTF is this one all about, a quick summary to make sure I understand is

Martin is either trying to be smart, a stirrer or just bonkers, and least likely suspect to make what appears to be incredibly stupid, history rewriting starting point and after that it becomes incomprehensible waffle (yes I know, pots, kettles) and in between the waffle

Boba could be seen to be historically proven correctly, even if I disagree, and Sutty could be proved to be aurally correct, and I agree.

Is that close enough?

[Ian Dewhirst]

WTF is this one all about, a quick summary to make sure I understand is

Martin is either trying to be smart, a stirrer or just bonkers, and least likely suspect to make what appears to be incredibly stupid, history rewriting starting point and after that it becomes incomprehensible waffle (yes I know, pots, kettles) and in between the waffle

Boba could be seen to be historically proven correctly, even if I disagree, and Sutty could be proved to be aurally correct, and I agree.

Is that close enough?

Looks like mostly waffle to me Jocko.

As far as I'm aware, there's always been attempts to crassly commercialise Soul Music whether it was Berry Gordy recording M.O.R. standards on Motown acts in the 60's or people selling genuine Oxford Bags or Northern Soul patches in the 70's. No change there then.

And I think Soul music is still alive and well. Even if I'm not particularly a fan, some U.S. labels are still pumping out what they and I would call traditional Soul music.

So I'm a bit bemused by it all.

Also, what exactly is a Northern Soul burger? Does it have any features which differentiate it from a none soul burger?

Ian D

[Sutty]

they're easily identifiable Ian, the ketchup container doesn't have a barcode

[Mike Lofthouse]

Nothing really changes. Soul music is out there...just hard to find. Fashionable [modern] R+B is simply black pop. There has always been black pop. When I was a young teenager Limmy + The Family Cookin got in the charts not the Soul Children.

cheers

dean

'I'll Be The Other Woman' by Soul Children made no 36 in the US pop charts. 'You Can Do Magic' by Limmie & The Family Cooking was their only US pop chart entry at 84. The Soul Children had two other top 100 entries.

Mike

[Smudger]

WTF is this one all about,

Light the blue touch paper and stand WELL BACK !

[Ian Dewhirst]

'I'll Be The Other Woman' by Soul Children made no 36 in the US pop charts. 'You Can Do Magic' by Limmie & The Family Cooking was their only US pop chart entry at 84. The Soul Children had two other top 100 entries.

Mike

Good call Mike. I'm fed up of people misappropriating Limme & The Family Cooking as a pop act when acts like the Soul Children were dressing themselves up as 'real soul' acts and sneakily scoring multiple Top 100 pop hits. Bloody charlatans!

Ian D

[Sutty]

WTF is this one all about,

Light the blue touch paper and stand WELL BACK !

something about Limmie & The Family cooking in a burger van outside a fashion show in 1975

Edited January 14, 2013 by Sutty

[Ian Dewhirst]

something about Limmie & The Family running a burger van at a fashion show in 1975

It wasn't a fashion show Sutty. Limme ran a highly successful burger van outside Batley Variety club in the mid 70's. That's where the Limme burger came from OK?

Ian D

[dean jj]

Mike-I meant in this country.

Ian-Thank you for the wit.

I love you all despite the current trend of washing the car in 40" bags on a sunday. Personally you should save them for listening to Butch on a Saturday night.

xxxx

dean

[Guest manusf3a]

You're prob right Boba, but anyway, bigger discussions are afoot! I see 'northern soul clothes' are about to go mainstream, so never mind that the mag has lost the plot, be prepared for the onslaught of fancy dress on a high street near you LOL

https://www.youtube....bed/Nb4nQShIMxU

GROAN!

Isnt that those actors,come models that are being trained to dance in the way that requires a large helping of drop backspinmorph mve evry twenty seconds or so,I can almost hear the honking of that horn,all over the land as in months to come probably following the release of the movie that goddam phooken honking horn is heard everywhere like the war time announcement of an air raid siren and the message it is sending,"Hey footsie fever mark two is here,bigger and brasher than it ever was before",as star jumpers clad youth are seen appearing on the streets of our towns and cities,the stars on the jumpers rivalling the number of those in the night sky as wigans ovations "Hit the streets,shouting for more,they cant keep still".Gils start to prefer boys with fifty buttons and twenty pockets in his pants,they cant be still".And where am I,"running out,away from that sensation,Well I ve made up my mind,nothing can be done,footsie wave two is coming, though I aint gonna run,,but you wont ever get me in baggies again,No matter what you do,not even the threat of a gun.

Some of the clohes actually looked quite good,as for the rest of what I can see as a storm warning ahed,well I am a peassamistic cynical git during some of my mood changes.

Edited January 14, 2013 by manusf3a

[Guest gordon russell]

Also, when I look on here at some of the lookbacks, I am amazed at the times I see reviews of who did the best butties or where the nicest hotel is or where to find a curry. What about the MUSIC, FFS??

Gotta agree with this.......pictures of newly polished 2 acre maple dance floors and foyets looking all plush in a council chic type of style..........this usually means it,s a collection of dj,s just putting records on and then going home.......gimme some old shit ole with all the dj,s like the punters sweating like f**k :D

[Ady Croasdell]

Gotta agree with this.......pictures of newly polished 2 acre maple dance floors and foyets looking all plush in a council chic type of style..........this usually means it,s a collection of dj,s just putting records on and then going home.......gimme some old shit ole with all the dj,s like the punters sweating like f**k :D

As it appens, the 100 Club sported 5 DJs who all stayed until the end on Saturday; nice one.

And it's a shit 'ole.

[Dean Rudland]

People in the US stopped referring to the music they were making as "soul music". A genre called "soul music" in the US ceased to exist. "Soul Train" continued but "Soul" magazine, the TV show "Soul", etc. dropped out. Only in the UK was there some sort of consistent genre called "Soul" assembled out of different R&B genres created in the US that didn't necessarily interact with each other domestically.

Bob artists like D'angelo, India Arie, Erykah Badu, Maxwell etc all referred to themselves as 'soul' as have many others.

[boba]

Bob artists like D'angelo, India Arie, Erykah Badu, Maxwell etc all referred to themselves as 'soul' as have many others.

I think you're referring to yet another US genre, "neo-Soul", which has a very specific sound.

[Cunnie]

Suppose as the thread starter I best reply to some of the points & my reasons for posting.

Well my main reason for posting I'd have thought was fairly obvious, my disgust at the constant dilution of the UK Soul scene as we know it. Northern Soul burger vans getting plugged all over the net, Retro shoes from days gone by jumping on the back of our music scene, I repeat 'MUSIC SCENE' to sell their products. JLS & Tom Jones plastered all over the cover of a magazine called 'Blues & Soul' Err hello, the clue is in the title of the mag or maybe not anymore. Sorry Tony as maybe I was a bit harsh on Eddie Piller & Lister from Red Dwarf.

Just how much further down this road can our beloved music scene go before it disappears up it's own arsehole.

Can just see it now. This weeks X Factor will feature the talentless wanabee's singing the Wigan Casino classics. Oh yes they're all there, The Snake, Tainted Love, Out On The Floor. Think it can't happen? Well last year they did a Motown week so it's not as far away as you think really is it?

Now let's switch channels to BBC 1. Ah good old Strictly Come Dancing from the Blackpool Tower Ballroom but wait, what's this? John Prescott & his partner doing 'The Northern Soul'. Shake that talc Brucie (hope he don't attempt a backdrop!!!).

Over to the movie channel, surely that's safe but what's this we see, Soulboy 4 - the 30 year return.

Now let's address some of the points raised by some on the thread.

Interesting to see that most of the so called New Soul releases were what I'd class as Retro Soul (Daptone, Lee Fields etc) & were also mostly 7" vinyl releases. Make of that what you will but don't think I'm knocking them as some of them I actually own & they are very good too.

Also interesting to see some of the comments between Boba & Sutty, 2 people I have the upmost respect for.

Noted Boba's comments regarding no more Soul music being made after the late 70's & also that Sutty runs an excellent site called Essential Modern Soul.

Found the comments from Bob strange to say the least but noted them as he's from the States & not brainwashed by things on our side of the pond. Just wondered where Soulful House fits into the no Soul after the late 70's as it's probably one of the last Uptempo Soulful Dance music genre's (IMO).

Might I suggest a visit to EMS Boba as it might be an eyeopener for you & I for one would love to read your views on it & I'm sure Paul (Sutty) would too.

Now another point I must bring up r/e my RIP comment. While you all visit EMS be sure to look at the 'Upfront' forum that covers new release Soul. I'm sorry but most (not all) of the music on there (& other places) has morphed itself into what I can only describe as mid to downtempo RnB.

Now I for one used to rush home from work every day to listen to some great danceable Soul music on there but now the majority of what is pushed down our throats just ain't got that energy any more. Know some of that is down to certain individuals on there posting for the sake of it regardless of quality. There are exceptions but they seem to be less & less each year.

Even sites like traxsource that used to throw up several quality releases each week now struggle to offer probably only a couple of things a month that are worthy of a download. Really do take my hat off to guy's like Mark Randle & Roger Williams who still manage to turn up quality new release music but hell it must be hard for them with some of the dross that's around now.

One last mention before I leave this thread for a few more day's & it's to Jocko.

Smart, Stirrer or Bonkers? Gotta be Bonkers

[boba]

Noted Boba's comments regarding no more Soul music being made after the late 70's & also that Sutty runs an excellent site called Essential Modern Soul.

Found the comments from Bob strange to say the least but noted them as he's from the States & not brainwashed by things on our side of the pond. Just wondered where Soulful House fits into the no Soul after the late 70's as it's probably one of the last Uptempo Soulful Dance music genre's (IMO).

Might I suggest a visit to EMS Boba as it might be an eyeopener for you & I for one would love to read your views on it & I'm sure Paul (Sutty) would too.

Does anyone in the US actually use the term "Soulful House"? There is a dance show the same night as mine on my radio station an hour after my show. Dudes play gospel house and other pretty soulful genres. But I've never heard them call it "soulful house" (and even if they did they aren't calling it "soul"). I also don't see "soulful house" on this pretty long list (I guess you could add it but it seems like the people making the music don't call it that given the list):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Styles_of_house_music

I've looked at EMS, the biggest eye opener for me was actually hearing solar radio recently. That actually made it make more sense to me as some sort of defining entity that pulled people and music together into a coherent genre that really only existed in the UK. Again, none of this is a knock on the music or the reception of it in the UK, it's just interesting that it seems to be a UK construct.

Again, I totally appreciate the fact that there is a group of people actively looking for "soul music" (and it often takes a lot of work as a lot of music is pulled from diverse sources), this is not a knock on the people that do that, just a different perspective.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Does anyone in the US actually use the term "Soulful House"? There is a dance show the same night as mine on my radio station an hour after my show. Dudes play gospel house and other pretty soulful genres. But I've never heard them call it "soulful house" (and even if they did they aren't calling it "soul"). I also don't see "soulful house" on this pretty long list (I guess you could add it but it seems like the people making the music don't call it that given the list):

https://en.wikipedia...._of_house_music

I've looked at EMS, the biggest eye opener for me was actually hearing solar radio recently. That actually made it make more sense to me as some sort of defining entity that pulled people and music together into a coherent genre that really only existed in the UK. Again, none of this is a knock on the music or the reception of it in the UK, it's just interesting that it seems to be a UK construct.

Again, I totally appreciate the fact that there is a group of people actively looking for "soul music" (and it often takes a lot of work as a lot of music is pulled from diverse sources), this is not a knock on the people that do that, just a different perspective.

I think there's a wider discussion here in terms of the difference between UK and US culture. I found when I was in the U.S. in the mid 70's I'd quite often say I was looking for Soul music and then have to explain exactly what Soul music was to some store owners and sometimes those conversations would go around the houses. But hey, that's another thread.....

Ian D

[boba]

I think there's a wider discussion here in terms of the difference between UK and US culture. I found when I was in the U.S. in the mid 70's I'd quite often say I was looking for Soul music and then have to explain exactly what Soul music was to some store owners and sometimes those conversations would go around the houses. But hey, that's another thread.....

Ian D

I don't think that's a wider discussion, that pretty much is in line with what I'm saying. Unless you're more specifically talking about White store owners and racial differences in recognizing music in the US.

There is a "blues" show on Saturday night on my station, the longest show on my station (5 hours) by a DJ ("eccentric" is the nicest word I can think of to describe him) named Arkansas Red. He plays modern (often dirty) blues (last time I listened like 10 years ago he was playing a new Ruby Andrews track called something like "turn over so I can sit on it" or something like that). More typical of his tracks would be Johnny Taylor "Last two dollars". But there is some overlap with overseas "southern soul" collectors because he plays Malaco type stuff. What's funny is that on facebook and I guess on his show, he's recently been saying "I DON'T PLAY SOUTHERN SOUL!" I guess there are worlds colliding with the internet where non-local audiences are calling him.

Also, like 15 years ago, I specifically asked him whether in the 70s he called artists like Tyrone Davis and Johnny Taylor "Blues" and he said "no, we called them 'Soul'". There is a constant redrawing of genre lines, even by the people who made and listened to the music originally. For example, "doowop" was not called "doowop" in the 50s. However, there's also a difference between the people making the music thinking of and targeting a specific genre and people from the outside pulling in music from disparate locally named genres and creating a new one.