Acetates, Emi Discs, Or Bootlegs?

[Northern Soul Uk]

It has long angered me that sellers advertise Emidiscs as acetates?

There is a huge difference am I correct?

In my experience I have always thought that an acetate is the disc that that is cut after a recording has been recorded to press the actual records from or a similar thing. Whereas Emidiscs where made by various DJs etc. with the correct equipment (Emidisc machine) to copy valuable records that either they couldn't get the original pressing of, or with the intention to sell them on, Bootleggers in essence.

Usually the illegal pressings (Emidiscs) will have a different record by different artists on both sides, whereas legit Acetates from a pressing plant will have the intended records by the intended artist on both A and B sides, and sometimes are single sided.

I think it's only fair that the sellers claiming that they are selling Acetates and are obviously selling illegal pressings should state that fact so as not to confuse or pull the wool.

I have also noticed that some legit acetates bear the name 'Emidisc' but it is quite easy to tell an original acetate from a bootlegged Emidisc, from the track listings.

What do you think?

Edited January 6, 2013 by Steve Luigi

[Guest john s]

'Emidisc' is a brand name for acetate blanks. A bit like 'TDK' being a brand name for blank cassettes.

All Emidiscs are acetates.

However, not all acetates are Emidiscs.

[Northern Soul Uk]

Yes I understand that, but legit acetates come from record pressing plants, whereas illegal ones 'bootlegs' don't, and are pressed for the purpose stated above. I know at least 1 prominant DJ that had an Emidisc machine who used to press Emidiscs and make a smallfortune out of selling them.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Steve Luigi

[Prophonics 2029]

I thought an emidisc was more of a personal thing for someone with a need to have a track or two or 6 on an old acetate I had years ago. Backwards Upside Down - Out Siders .. One More Chance - Patrick Bradley .. Dont Pity Me - Sue Lynn, Lips To Your Heart - Nighty Watch last track could have been Music It With Soul Palle Bearers? But I was mad on Patrick at the time and it wasn't tailor made for me but I was happy.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Prophonics 2029

[Guest john s]

The point I was making is that you can cut anything on any blank acetate disc.

There's no such thing as an 'Emidisc machine', it's an acetate cutter and you can cut any blanks on it.

It just happens that Emidisc were the most popular UK brand of blank discs, for legit acetates AND bootlegs.

Now, if you have a supposed US acetate on an Emidisc, I'd be pretty suspicious!

Edited January 6, 2013 by john s

[Prophonics 2029]

If he cut Rufus Lumley he only cut half the track.

Yes I understand that, but legit acetates come from record pressing plants, whereas illegal ones 'bootlegs' don't, and are pressed for the purpose stated above. I know at least 1 prominant DJ that had an Emidisc machine who used to press Emidiscs and make a smallfortune out of selling them.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Prophonics 2029

[Northern Soul Uk]

Original pressing plant Emidisc I would say:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Northern-Soul-Linda-Lyndell-Polydor-Acetate-One-Off-British-Original-/380543225343?pt=UK_Records&hash=item589a24cdff

and obviously not:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Northern-Soul-Velvet-Satins-Nothin-Can-Compare-To-You-Acetate-/300841175802?pt=UK_Records&hash=item460b880afa

Although the second one isn't an Emidisc it is being sold as an acetate but is obviously a bootleg on an acetate disc.

[Roburt]

Emidisc's were EMI's offical acetates, thus Stateside, HMV, Columbia label stuff (& more) were put on Emidiscs.

Of course, EMI made Emidisc's for outside parties -- other labels in the 60's ... but by the 70's these were also made for NS DJ's & dealers.

But back in the 60's, an EMI acetate would be an Emidisc as it would appear with a Emidisc label on it (this all being beforeNS bootlegs).

We have had this discussion before but you just don't want to accept the truth.

[Northern Soul Uk]

Emidisc's were EMI's offical acetates, thus Stateside, HMV, Columbia label stuff (& more) were put on Emidiscs.

Of course, EMI made Emidisc's for outside parties -- other labels in the 60's ... but by the 70's these were also made for NS DJ's & dealers.

But back in the 60's, an EMI acetate would be an Emidisc as it would appear with a Emidisc label on it (this all being beforeNS bootlegs).

We have had this discussion before but you just don't want to accept the truth.

I haven't had this conversation on here before Roburt???

[Guest john s]

Original pressing plant Emidisc I would say:

https://www.ebay.co.u...=item589a24cdff

and obviously not:

https://www.ebay.co.u...=item460b880afa

Although the second one isn't an Emidisc it is being sold as an acetate but is obviously a bootleg on an acetate disc.

OK, so you mean 'bootlegs on acetate discs' rather than 'Emidiscs'.

No quibble with that at all, and I understand that in the 70's, Emidiscs were widely used to make unofficial cuts of big soul tunes.

But they were also used in-house by EMI, and sold commercially for use on acetate cutters - pretty much any recording studio in the UK, no matter how small, had an acetate cutter to make quick copies that could be taken away before the age of the CD.

There are masses of UK pop/rock acts whose legacy is a single acetate 45...

[Northern Soul Uk]

"OK, so you mean 'bootlegs on acetate discs' rather than 'Emidiscs'."

Yes sorry that's what I meant and I should have made it more clear from the onset.

[Roburt]

I haven't had this conversation on here before Roburt???

Well we had a very similar thread about 3 weeks ago & the person who started it wouldn't accept that Emidiscs started life as official EMI acetates at the start of the 60's (or even a bit earlier). Of course you're right, you didn't contribute to the earlier thread (which was Unknown - You Turn Me On BTW).

A piece posted up on Discogs .......... I was involved with the recording industry in the 1960's, so perhaps I can clarify the 'Emidisc' situation. Bands/Groups/Artistes would either hire private studios, or be given Record Company studio time, in order to make practice, experimental, or demonstration recordings. The finished recording would be on a 'recording industry standard tape'. This was far too wide for a domestic tape recorder and played at a different speed. The performer(s) would be given the options of purchasing copies of their work on Industry Standard Tape, Domestic Reel to Reel Tape, or Acetate Disc. To the best of my knowledge, the only blank acetates used in the UK were Emidiscs. The recording was not 'pressed' onto the acetate, but individually 'cut' by a machine. This resembled a record player that worked in reverse. Putting it simply, sound was transferred from the Master Tape to a diamond cutter that vibrated, and cut the grooves. This was old technology that dated back to Edison recordings at the beginning of the 20th Century. If six copies of a double sided single were required, you had to wait while the machine performed twelve times. This took time and these demo discs were not cheap! I cannot ever recall any of these acetates being given matrix or run-off numbers. The self-adhesive labels were provided separately so that any info could be typed on them. These were always blank except for the printed Emidisc blurb around the rim. Any catalogue numbers were typed on by the performer’s management and were nothing to do with Emidisc or EMI.

What the guy on Discogs doesn't say (coz he obviously didn't actually work for EMI) was that EMI themselves used the discs to make their own acetates.

You can get some genuine EMI Emidisc acetates quite cheaply (if you're into Barron Knight's records that is).

Edited January 6, 2013 by Roburt

[Northern Soul Uk]

Yes I have actually recorded records myself and been to the cutting plant to watch the acetate being cut albeit a 12" acetate.

Really interesting to watch, and before they cut the acetate they look at the tracks through a VERY powerful magnifying glass so that they can make sure that the grooves don't touch each other which would cause the record to skip. When they have actually cut the acetate, the engineer asked what we wanted putting on the runout groove, and we watched him physically scratch in the wording. Amazing to see.

Also I have a framed 7" original acetate copy of 'Jocelyn Brown - Somebody elses guy' which came with the info sheet from 'Island' records.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Steve Luigi

[Northern Soul Uk]

Here's the Jocelyn acetate 7"

Edited January 6, 2013 by Steve Luigi

[Roburt]

.... before they cut the acetate they look at the tracks through a VERY powerful magnifying glass so that they can make sure that the grooves don't touch each other which would cause the record to skip. When they have actually cut the acetate, the engineer asked what we wanted putting on the runout groove, and we watched him physically scratch in the wording. Amazing to see.

Also I have a framed 7" original acetate copy of 'Jocelyn Brown - Somebody elses guy' which came with the info sheet from 'Island' records.

I have some similar TAPE 1 UK acetates of modern(-ish) soul stuff. Also have a few done by MASTER ROOM (Custom Cutting To the Record Industry) of Ridinghouse St, London ...... I have posted a scan of a label off one of these up on the TEST PRESSINGS thread.

When the Record & Tape Exchange shop on Goldhawk Rd (just west of Goldhawk Rd Underground Stn in Shepherds Bush) was still there (about 20 years back), they would get such acetates in on a regular basis (as a couple of acetate cutting studios were local to it & they cleared their store rooms out every 18 months or so). If you dropped by that shop when such a clear out had just taken place, you could pick up acetates of UK soul (7" / 12" / LP) for a few pence a go (but with the info on each label being very sparse, you took a chance on getting some rubbish).

Picked up a 12" acetate there of an unissued track by Frankie Kelly ("Ain't That The Truth" being his biggie that Virgin put out on 10). Virgin must have been considering releasing this unissued cut at one stage but passed on the idea after having some acetates cut..

[Paul R]

Back in about 74/75, I went with Pete lawson a couple of times to a recording studio in Carnforth, where Pete used to get his EMIs done. Some of the top DJs at the time also used this place, and the owner used to record everything and give Pete a list. He used to sell the 4 track singles for £5. I think Keith Bradley, also from Ormskirk used the same place. Frank Elson always used to threaten to out them as bootleggers, in his column in B&S.

Paul

[Pete S]

What the guy on Discogs doesn't say (coz he obviously didn't actually work for EMI) was that EMI themselves used the discs to make their own acetates.

You can get some genuine EMI Emidisc acetates quite cheaply (if you're into Barron Knight's records that is).

Interesting throwaway choice of artist there, I sold a Barron Knights acetate for £60 or £70 last year, though it was Comin' Home Baby (a really good British R&B version) and was on a Lansdowne Studios acetate.

[nickp]

Interesting throwaway choice of artist there, I sold a Barron Knights acetate for £60 or £70 last year, though it was Comin' Home Baby (a really good British R&B version) and was on a Lansdowne Studios acetate.

Being the purchaser of this very fine version, its great to see the reaction when I tell the enquirer that its The Barron Knights !

A superb version of the song.

[Pete S]

Being the purchaser of this very fine version, its great to see the reaction when I tell the enquirer that its The Barron Knights !

A superb version of the song.

Too right, nobody could believe it when I used to play it to them, and it's such a hard record to find on UK Columbia. It pre-dates their comedy records, people don't realise that.

[Roburt]

Interesting throwaway choice of artist there, I sold a Barron Knights acetate for £60 or £70 last year, though it was Comin' Home Baby (a really good British R&B version) and was on a Lansdowne Studios acetate.

I'm not dissing that particular 45 .... but are there ANY other Barron Knight's Columbia records (or Epic even) that go for more than a couple of quid.

Their stuff was popular as 'radio plays' back in the 60's so I guess quite a few Emidiscs of their stuff was sent out .... but the uda tracks haven't stood up well to the test of time (corny comedy & mimicry type cuts).

[Guest john s]

I'm not dissing that particular 45 .... but are there ANY other Barron Knight's Columbia records (or Epic even) that go for more than a couple of quid.

'Lazy Fat People' (which is a Pete Townsend song unrecorded, as far as I know, by The Who) goes for a bit.

[Roburt]

'Lazy Fat People' (which is a Pete Townsend song unrecorded, as far as I know, by The Who) goes for a bit.

Don't know that one.