When Did We Start With Ovo

[barney]

When did the term original vinyl only originate ias the playing policy for soul events ..

which was the first venue to advocate this policy .

[Diddy Morgan]

NAC..................not a clue mate , however maybe something to do with the returning masses circa 1995 and the rise of 40 venues a week popularity .....just a guess

[Pete Eccles]

It probably originated when it became an option, the same as when other formats were implemented, some venues play cd's, laptops, mp3s, boots and some play original vinyl only,

I have played Cds in the pub, I have dabbled on a laptop in another pub, I wouldn't turn up at somewhere like lifeline with a memory stick,

I really don't understand your concerns Barney, there's countless venues up and down the country that don't give a flying fukc, and good luck to em, I play at plenty and don't complain,

Then there's venues that choose to be more selective in their chosen format, and good luck to them, I play at plenty, I don't complain,

The only time it becomes an issue is when someone wants to play something other than the format preferred at any given night,

Think that just about sums it up,

Edited January 4, 2013 by Pete60

[boba]

I think the term originated with a thread started on here by Steve G, you can search for it.

If this thread turns into a debate about original vinyl vs. not I will close it, as it has been debated ad nauseum and it's not what the title of the thread is about (where the word came from). If you feel you have something to add to the debate, please read all of the many "OVO" threads first, since you probably don't have any new revelations to add. If you feel you do, hit "report" and give some more info. "OVO" threads by now just pollute the AATS forum with bad vibes and bickering and no new info. Thanks a lot.

[Guest Gogs]

maybe i should have checked the decks when i was young(er) but i was more interested in dancing to what was in the grooves instead of what label it was on. But now i only play ovo when i'm asked to do a spot, but then again i still don't check the decks when i'm out dancing, i would love to think it's an orig but if i'm just out for a nite out i really don't care, although i will make sure that where i go plays vinyl only. i know that i miss out a lot of tracks (esp modern) that are only on cd (i can get these at the shops or on youtube) but i feel vinyl brings a history with it, if that makes sense ?.

[boba]

This thread is about where the term came from. One more discussion post about actual "OVO" and I'm closing the thread. Not trying to censor anyone, please read the large amount of existing threads on the topic (which at this point only negatively affect the AATS forum, even if your post is friendly and positive). If you have some totally new perspective to add hit "report" on the thread. Thank you.

[Des Crombie]

2005 Black Horse , Wolverhampton Dave Rimmer, first time I think it was mentioned on here. Thousands of times since

[barney]

only interested in genuine answers about the history of OVO

deffo not a debate about the merits of Ovo.

when did it become common practice to have ovo events?.

who first used OVO in their flyers and when? ,.

is it a 70s 80s 90s or 21st century phenomenom.?

[Dave Rimmer]

2005 Black Horse , Wolverhampton Dave Rimmer, first time I think it was mentioned on here. Thousands of times since

So it's all my fault

Actually it's a term that we had been using in the West Midlands for several years prior to 2005.

I blame John Pugh

Just realised by reading the old thread that it was 8 years ago to the day that that thread was running.

I still blame John Pugh

Edited January 4, 2013 by Dave Rimmer

[Steve G]

Without writing a book on the subject you can summarise roughly, and I say roughly since there is never any golden rule that applies to something like this and there have always been people willing to take a shortcut to try and gain short term dancefloor popularity. There are also regional differences. For example in London there has always been a seemingly endless supply of people setting up soul do's and playing boots:

-1960's

Music largely played on UK release a few imports, increasing as the decade went on.

- Early 1970's -

Loads of imports on OV. Loads of new discoveries coming through from Soul Bowl, Levine, SS, and a host of others. Still some UK releases. Probably some early boots played at soul nights,

- Mid 70s "WIgan explosion" -

Niters / Dayers playing OV + EMIdiscs (purpose made acetate copies like Carvers today) of "in demanders".

Soul Nights depending on where you were playing either OV, Boots or a mix.

Think a few boots played by what I'd class as "2nd division Wigan DJs" (the fillers rather than the main "names").

- Post Wigan / Stafford / 100 Club etc.

OV still rules at Niters / Dayers.

Mod revival nights / weekends loads of boots / reissues etc.

Today:

Well you know the answer to that....

Edited January 4, 2013 by Steve G

[sir cumference]

I suppose the question did not arise until the first bootlegger saw the chance to make some money.Surely in the early days it was all original?

I think most of us know that by mid 70`s D.J`s themselves were involved in selling emi`s-even putting out lists advertising their "wares" and "pressings" were in the shops by `73 at least.

[Guest]

2005 Black Horse , Wolverhampton Dave Rimmer, first time I think it was mentioned on here. Thousands of times since

Very ironic that seeing as how Dave was DJing off a memory stick on NYE!

[Haydn]

Aye. Rimmer-Gate, I remember it well!

[Ted Massey]

there were emi discs knocking about in 1968 was offered one with Mr bang bang man, at the discotheque and fife piper on it for 10 quid fooking lot of money then, was only earning 5 quid a week i didnt buy it

[Roburt]

RE: - ................

1960's

Music largely played on UK release a few imports, increasing as the decade went on.

- Early 1970's -

Loads of imports on OV. Loads of new discoveries coming through from Soul Bowl, Levine, SS, and a host of others. Still some UK releases. Probably some early boots played at soul nights,

Got to agree with the above but I'd add that initially Soul City shop started getting in decent supplies of OV US 45's, then the likes of F L Moore joined in, closely followed by B&S's Contempo Record Sales set up. Of course the boots such as 'Soul Sounds' out of Leicester started appearing around 69.

Don't recall seeing any Emidiscs at all in the 60's (it was easier / cheaper / better to send off to the likes of Randy's Rec Shop in Gallatin to get hold of copies of the US OV version of deleted UK soul 45's).

Mind you, as I 'left the scene' in the 70's and was just buying new release / non NS imports back then .... I never came across / used the term OV till much more recently.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Roburt

[Guest in town Mikey]

Without writing a book on the subject you can summarise roughly, and I say roughly since there is never any golden rule that applies to something like this and there have always been people willing to take a shortcut to try and gain short term dancefloor popularity. There are also regional differences. For example in London there has always been a seemingly endless supply of people setting up soul do's and playing boots:

-1960's

Music largely played on UK release a few imports, increasing as the decade went on.

- Early 1970's -

Loads of imports on OV. Loads of new discoveries coming through from Soul Bowl, Levine, SS, and a host of others. Still some UK releases. Probably some early boots played at soul nights,

- Mid 70s "WIgan explosion" -

Niters / Dayers playing OV + EMIdiscs (purpose made acetate copies like Carvers today) of "in demanders".

Soul Nights depending on where you were playing either OV, Boots or a mix.

Think a few boots played by what I'd class as "2nd division Wigan DJs" (the fillers rather than the main "names").

- Post Wigan / Stafford / 100 Club etc.

OV still rules at Niters / Dayers.

Mod revival nights / weekends loads of boots / reissues etc.

Today:

Well you know the answer to that....

I think I read an interview with Dave Thorley about Stafford. In it he said the ethos behind Stafford was born of the disillusion about other events and their oldies packed playlists (Sound familiar anyone) and how the guys wanted to get back to playing rare soul of quality on original formats.

I may have got this mixed up. Perhaps Dave can comment if he sees this.

Thinking back I can remember lots of chats on trains and other places discussing the Original v 'its whats in the groove that counts' guys. It all seemed more good natured but just as passionate back then? Maybe because the discussions were face to face, and the typed internet post can often lead to misunderstandings about tone etc.

[Steve G]

I think I read an interview with Dave Thorley about Stafford. In it he said the ethos behind Stafford was born of the disillusion about other events and their oldies packed playlists (Sound familiar anyone) and how the guys wanted to get back to playing rare soul of quality on original formats.

I may have got this mixed up. Perhaps Dave can comment if he sees this.

Thinking back I can remember lots of chats on trains and other places discussing the Original v 'its whats in the groove that counts' guys. It all seemed more good natured but just as passionate back then? Maybe because the discussions were face to face, and the typed internet post can often lead to misunderstandings about tone etc.

Hi Mikey,

I can categorically confirm that as the editor of Blackbeat during the Stafford era early - mid 80s, there was relatively little chatter about OV v pressings amongst my humble readership.

There were of course venues that played pressings and everyone left on the scene at that point knew that. The main venues like Stafford, some (but not all) Peterboro events, Leicester etc. and 100 Club pretty much stuck to OV - it was just a given that DJs at these main scene events didn't play boots. The BIG controversy for my lot in the early / mid 80's was around Oldies v new 60s v modern etc. (i.e. type of music more than type of format). Mostly all good fun.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Steve G

[Rich B]

Mary & Colin Chapman had an ovo policy at the Cleethorpes pier back in early '75. I seem to recall one of the dj's being sacked for playing an emidisc. Others might know more, Ian D was one of the 'stars' of Clee in the early days, perhaps he can recall how strictly she enforced the rule?

Edited January 4, 2013 by Rich B

[Guest in town Mikey]

Hi Mikey,

I can categorically confirm that as the editor of Blackbeat during the Stafford era early - mid 80s, there was relatively little chatter about OV v pressings amongst my humble readership.

There were of course venues that played pressings and everyone left on the scene at that point knew that. The main venues like Stafford, some (but not all) Peterboro events, Leicester etc. and 100 Club pretty much stuck to OV - it was just a given that DJs at these main scene events didn't play boots. The BIG controversy for my lot in the early / mid 80's was around Oldies v new 60s v modern etc. (i.e. type of music more than type of format). Mostly all good fun.

I think you have hit on the nub of Barney's post.

When did it NOT become a given that DJs played original vinyl?

[Len]

This came up a couple of years back, and I can categorically say Winston Heath coined the phrase. It was on a thread that kept repeating ‘Original Vinyl Only’, so on Winston’s next post he stated it like this -

“Original Vinyl Only (O.V.O)” Then everyone ‘adopted’ it from there…

..... I have searched for the said thread, but to no avail I’m afraid. But thinking about it — It must have been the ‘Original, ‘Original Vinyl Only’ thread!

Well done Winston

As far as the actual policy for events goes, it was just one of the ‘unwritten rules’, the ‘norm’ if you like, it simply wasn’t an issue until quite recently.

All the best,

Len

Edited January 4, 2013 by LEN

[Steve G]

Mary & Colin Chapman had an ovo policy at the Cleethorpes pier back in early '75. I seem to recall one of the dj's being sacked for playing an emidisc. Others might know more, Ian D was one of the 'stars' of Clee in the early days, perhaps he can recall how strictly she enforced the rule?

I may be wrong but I thought that came about in part at least because Ian L turned up at Clee one night with some EMIs of all of his latest productions and Mary sent him away? Godin "made some hay" out of it in B&S at the time I recall him quoting Mary "My DJ's only play originals". This was I am sure partly because DG was involved in a "death match" with Tony Cummings over at Black Music at the time (last seen as a gospel radio guy in Plymouth); Cummings was writing his 'exposes' about NS in BM, and having his ear bent by Ian about "what good looks like" in the process.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Steve G

[Len]

I think you have hit on the nub of Barney's post.

When did it NOT become a given that DJs played original vinyl?

As a complete guess, I would say 2005 onwards - But that's just a guess, others may say different. I'm not saying it didn't happen before then, but if it did it was a shock.

I remember Dave Flemming coming up to me at The Embankment Club to let me know that one of the D.J's was playing a pressing of something he was going to play, I was shocked and a bit embarrassed - He was ok with it, as it was also a shock to him.

There was no need to 'check' in those days you see, I just presumed the man in question played by the rules - Well I didn't even presume, I didn't give it a second thought.

All the best,

Len

Edited January 4, 2013 by LEN

[Rich B]

I may be wrong but I thought that came about in part at least because Ian L turned up at Clee one night with some EMIs of all of his latest productions and Mary sent him away? Godin "made some hay" out of it in B&S at the time I recall him quoting Mary "My DJ's only play originals". This was I am sure partly because DG was involved in a "death match" with Tony Cummings over at Black Music at the time (last seen as a gospel radio guy in Plymouth); Cummings was writing his 'exposes' about NS in BM, and having his ear bent by Ian about "what good looks like" in the process.

There certainly was a fuss about Levine's acetates being played, but I thought the originals only rule had begun before that particular incident Steve. I may be wrong, I was 17 at the time and very impressionable!

[Premium Stuff]

_{This is the first time O.V.O. appears in asearch on Soulsource:}

_Cheers

_Richard

Edited January 4, 2013 by Premium Stuff

[Len]

Mary & Colin Chapman had an ovo policy at the Cleethorpes pier back in early '75. I seem to recall one of the dj's being sacked for playing an emidisc. Others might know more, Ian D was one of the 'stars' of Clee in the early days, perhaps he can recall how strictly she enforced the rule?

...Or I stand corrected

.....I was answering from my experience.

All the best,

Len

[Rich B]

...Or I stand corrected

.....I was answering from my experience.

All the best,

Len

It's often all we have to go on Len!

[Guest Matt Male]

Well I don't know, but I do know that when I first got started in 1978 we differentiated between originals and 'pressings' (which was what we called boots and reissues back then). We always wanted the original, although we were a lot less fussy about buying pressings if we couldn't get an orig (which was most of the time as a schoolboy).

Having said that I don't remember many people gaving a toss if DJs were playing boots or originals at the venues, even prestigous places like Stafford and Leicester Oddfellows.

I'm sure I can remember flyers for the Sensible Soul Club and Central England Soul Club in the 80s having OVO on the flyer.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Matt Male

[Guest Byrney]

So it would seem originals have always been a core part of the real scene, some won't be happy with that.

Thinking back to the handful of times I did a spot mid 80s, OVO in the main was just expected and not really talked about; to be honest you would have been considered a div for doing a spot of pressings back then.

Ok some slipped the odd Emi in, usually of unreleased tracks or new / exclusive discoveries; the fact they were Emi's was overlooked as they were newies, with the quest for new tunes overriding the odd mooch away from the original path.

Different from today where nostalgia Djs have no problem with whole sets of boots.

[KevH]

There certainly was a fuss about Levine's acetates being played, but I thought the originals only rule had begun before that particular incident Steve. I may be wrong, I was 17 at the time and very impressionable!

Were IL's acetates of his Exciters/Tyrone Ashley.. etc output.?

[Guest Matt Male]

So it would seem originals have always been a core part of the real scene, some won't be happy with that.

Thinking back to the handful of times I did a spot mid 80s, OVO in the main was just expected and not really talked about; to be honest you would have been considered a div for doing a spot of pressings back then.

Ok some slipped the odd Emi in, usually of unreleased tracks or new / exclusive discoveries; the fact they were Emi's was overlooked as they were newies, with the quest for new tunes overriding the odd mooch away from the original path.

Different from today where nostalgia Djs have no problem with whole sets of boots.

I think you've hit the nail on the head Byrney, in the past it was accepted but not the norm that pressings were played, now it's not just the norm to play boots it's almost the law at some places.

[barney]

some interesting answers on this topic , it seems the term OVO first appear on this forum in 2005 but others have mentioned seeing this much earlier on flyers . would be interestingt if anyone has any old flyers with OVO being mentioned

take note also with regard to the apparent ambiguity between boots and originals in the early days , there seems to be a concensus that it wasnt an issue back then among the general populace and not a contentious issue as it is today.

but that is for another thread please .

[Rich B]

Were IL's acetates of his Exciters/Tyrone Ashley.. etc output.?

That's right Kev, "Doomsday" "Weak spot" all of those early things he did.

[Pete S]

Hi Mikey,

I can categorically confirm that as the editor of Blackbeat during the Stafford era early - mid 80s, there was relatively little chatter about OV v pressings amongst my humble readership.

That's because you drove them all away by only writing about Modern Soul

Edited January 4, 2013 by Pete S

[Guest gordon russell]

Surely richard serling was the first to use it on june 14th 1974 at 3.30 a.m.....he seems to be the bloke that played everytning first

Edited January 4, 2013 by gordon russell

[Billywhizz]

Mary & Colin Chapman had an ovo policy at the Cleethorpes pier back in early '75. I seem to recall one of the dj's being sacked for playing an emidisc. Others might know more, Ian D was one of the 'stars' of Clee in the early days, perhaps he can recall how strictly she enforced the rule?

#Thats right, spot on ,

[Steve G]

That's because you drove them all away by only writing about Modern Soul

Ha ha! We had some right humdingers going on in the letters pages. Back and forth it went.

[Linky]

I was under the impression that OVO initially meant 'On Vinyl Only' with the introduction of CD decks in the late 90s/early 00s. This was then upgraded to 'Original Only Vinyl'.

[barney]

I was under the impression that OVO initially meant 'On Vinyl Only' with the introduction of CD decks in the late 90s/early 00s. This was then upgraded to 'Original Only Vinyl'.

have also heard this myself but some time ago , same time span though .

[Jim G]

Ok off topic, but lets remember even the top DJ's back in the day were happy to play Emi Disc from Simon Sussain to get the exclusive sounds. OVO seems to be a recent term and it has been debated to death on here

[Amsterdam Russ]

In the 100 Club (and Stafford) of the 80s, Keb Darge was playing sounds like "She's Fire" off carvers was he not? Isn't this documented on this site?

Tragically (for me), I remember being at the first Putney Bridge soul nights in London (c.86?) and being gobsmackingly disappointed to see "a well known DJ" playing Stanley Mitchell's "Get it baby" on a Soul Wax bootleg.

That hurt even more because I had exactly the same boot (still do) and - based on the "OVO" attitude of those I peripherally mixed with at that time on the outside fringes of the "London Elite" - made me feel that I and my records were vastly inferior.

If Keb could carve (quite literally) his way brilliant and cultish way through the 80s and 90s with ready-carved 45s (and many promo carvers supplied by Adey to help future Kent LPs - and eventually 45s - along the way), why not?

After all, who didn't race to the floor to dance to them?

Edited January 5, 2013 by Russell Gilbert

[Steve G]

"London Elite"

There's no such thing in reality Russell; just those that think they're "elite" or a bit special.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Steve G

[Tony Smith]

In the 100 Club (and Stafford) of the 80s, Keb Darge was playing sounds like "She's Fire" off carvers was he not? Isn't this documented on this site?

Tragically (for me), I remember being at the first Putney Bridge soul nights in London (c.86?) and being gobsmackingly disappointed to see "a well known DJ" playing Stanley Mitchell's "Get it baby" on a Soul Wax bootleg.

That hurt even more because I had exactly the same boot (still do) and - based on the "OVO" attitude of those I peripherally mixed with at that time on the outside fringes of the "London Elite" - made me feel that I and my records were vastly inferior.

If Keb could carve (quite literally) his way brilliant and cultish way through the 80s and 90s with ready-carved 45s (and many promo carvers supplied by Adey to help future Kent LPs - and eventually 45s - along the way), why not?

After all, who didn't race to the floor to dance to them?

At the time Keb was playing COD's, there was no other way of hearing it, it was still a one-off at the time and had been dubbed from Rod Shards copy.

[Dave Pinch]

At the time Keb was playing COD's, there was no other way of hearing it, it was still a one-off at the time and had been dubbed from Rod Shards copy.

does that make it right tho tony..one rule for one and one rule for another and all that

[Chalky]

Many DJ's have used emi's/carvers or whatever it was at the time, it has always gone one.

[Steve G]

We're in danger of drifting into another "What is OV?" thread (yawn)....I'd like to see some pre 2005 posters that mention OV if there are any?

[Chalky]

I couldn't care less when it was first used, I just follow what I've always done and believed in, served me well so far.

[Len]

This is where it all gets a bit complicated and almost impossible to explain. As I’ve said before, the more people go on about the issue, the more silly it sounds. If a D.J of integrity, plays the odd emidisc or even if he decided on a rare occasion to sling in the odd boot, it wouldn’t bother me as long as he considered what he was playing and wasn’t stepping on anyone’s toes. Put it this way, I wouldn’t get all upset over it and go home and sulk. If he’s got the passion, he’s a real D.J - I'd rather see this D.J than some 'Cut 'n' Paste' D.J.

It can depend on where they are playing and who to etc.

All the best,

Len

Edited January 5, 2013 by LEN

[Dave Rimmer]

We're in danger of drifting into another "What is OV?" thread (yawn)....I'd like to see some pre 2005 posters that mention OV if there are any?

There aren't any Steve, unless the site search only goes back as 2005, and there are previous references to it that won't be indexed.

I know at the time I did the flyers for the Black Horse we had been using the phrase for several years in the West Midlands, (I would guess at leat 2000) partly as a back lash at the plethora of boot playing venues that were around at the time.

and I still blame John Pugh

[Len]

I'm also interested in when the term was first used - Back on topic - PHEW!

All the best,

Len

[Guest Soultown andy]

This is where it all gets a bit complicated and almost impossible to explain. As I’ve said before, the more people go on about the issue, the more silly it sounds. If a D.J of integrity, plays the odd emidisc or even if he decided on a rare occasion to sling in the odd boot, it wouldn’t bother me as long as he considered what he was playing and wasn’t stepping on anyone’s toes. Put it this way, I wouldn’t get all upset over it and go home and sulk. If he’s got the passion, he’s a real D.J - I'd rather see this D.J than some 'Cut 'n' Paste' D.J.

It can depend on where they are playing and who to etc.

All the best,

Len

So its ok for a dj of integrity to play a boot or carver,who decides who these djs are ,just a question.