Ebay And Bootlegs, What Can Be Done?

[Jhsoulnotts]

I've got a bit of time on my hands this week as I don't go back to work until the 7th so I'm spending my time listening and looking, inevitably that leads me to eVilBay. What I just don't understand is why eBay don't do something about bootlegs. It's absolutely freakin useless searching the UK site, as there are about 10 boots to every one original. This is clearly in contravention of their policy, but they are not nearly as efficient as policing say counterfeit jewellery or clothing?

Is there an alternative? can we get eBay to change stuff? could we build one? Shall I just start clicking the report button?

J

Edited January 2, 2013 by Jhsoulnotts

[paultp]

Unfortunately it needs the record companies/label owners to take ebay to task but most seem happy to sit on their hands.

I wonder if PPL or PRS would be interested or if its within their remit.

Can't see it stopping whilst people are happy to buy them.

[Prophonics 2029]

Substandard pieces of sheet being sold for £10. Poor sound and dreadful quality pressings with sellers wording the text to deceive the puters???.

[Prophonics 2029]

Thought I had gotten over this last year but just been stung again.

[Guest Garry Huxley]

its not just the bootlegs when i type in used i get bombarded with s**t new pressings that are so overpriced that makes me think why do people buy them.

garry

[Thecivilservice]

10 bootlegs to 1 original is about the same ratio everywhere you go, records shops, fairs etc so ebay is no different...I don't see the problem - have you considered that some people just want the record cheap and don't even know or care about bootlegs?

[Thecivilservice]

Of course I make an exception for really poor, rip off pressings

[Kev John]

Boots have always been part & parcel of the soul scene like it or not :(

But i can't see Evil Bay doing anything about the deluge of them on the site cus they are making money of the sales

atb Kev

Edited January 2, 2013 by soulghost

[Guest]

At the end of the day ebay dont really give care just as long as they get there cut they couldnt give a toss I'm afraid . Say they remove them all that will happen they will be a millon more to take there place

[Jhsoulnotts]

Might be part of your scene, but I don't go to the places. Makes me sad. If you use US eBay and there is relatively few, appalling really when you think about it.

[Guest chorleybloke]

A good way to rid eBay of these boots is to eliminate the demand. Could be wrong (especially because I don't live there) but I'm guessing that this demand mainly comes from folk up and down the UK who buy a boxful then hold monthly gigs at their local hotel or town hall charging a tenner on the door. Payback would be relatively rapid then a modest profit could be made. So if folk stop going to bootleg gigs the demand disappears... or have I got this totally wrong?

Cheers

Pete

[Guest]

Didn't a member on here once start a website devoted to highlighting and identifying bootlegs past and present?

There was a 'Bootleg Guide' section on the late (great!) Soul-Talk forum...maybe Soul-Source should devote a section to this, in order to help folk and address the issue?

[John Reed]

Didn't a member on here once start a website devoted to highlighting and identifying bootlegs past and present?

There was a 'Bootleg Guide' section on the late (great!) Soul-Talk forum...maybe Soul-Source should devote a section to this, in order to help folk and address the issue?

It’s a shame SoulTalk no longer exists there was a shed load of stuff on there not readily available else ware on the net. Is there anyway of incorporating some of its content into Soul Source, to keep the information alive?

Edited January 3, 2013 by John Reed

[Dave Pinch]

what about trading standands...ebay uk would be shut down if they acted on what is up for sale on there..its a waste of time lookin on ebay uk as 99% is either counterfeit or just plain junk

[Chris L]

I've got a bit of time on my hands this week as I don't go back to work until the 7th so I'm spending my time listening and looking, inevitably that leads me to eVilBay. What I just don't understand is why eBay don't do something about bootlegs. It's absolutely freakin useless searching the UK site, as there are about 10 boots to every one original. This is clearly in contravention of their policy, but they are not nearly as efficient as policing say counterfeit jewellery or clothing? Is there an alternative? can we get eBay to change stuff? could we build one? Shall I just start clicking the report button? J

I know that when you try and find a record on UK Ebay there pops up a whole gaggle of pressings/re-issues/boots, but I did get the felling that they're being sold for less than a couple of years ago and are in smaller batches than before. I guess those who wanted them have them and only (generally) the serious collectors are now buying.

[Guest]

My question would be who is buying them -- I would guess that the vast majority of them are people who don't go out on the scene very often and probably don't know the difference... In which case, there's not really much you can do about it -- in a way it's sort of the same phenomenon as stuff that sells on eBay for way more than it's worth -- because it's being bought by people who don't know what they're doing...

[Jim G]

one of the problems, Ebay or Trading standards would have is proving a record is an illegal copy. Now to most on here we can spot them, but to the untrained eye they wouldn't know where to start and I guess they have bigger fish to fry with Electrical goods, cars etc where it easier.

not defending them, but if they don't have the specialist resources it is difficult to track down and prove that fraud is taking place.

[Dave Pinch]

I know that when you try and find a record on UK Ebay there pops up a whole gaggle of pressings/re-issues/boots, but I did get the felling that they're being sold for less than a couple of years ago and are in smaller batches than before. I guess those who wanted them have them and only (generally) the serious collectors are now buying.

but theres still a lot there on buy it nows cluttering the place up

[paultp]

10 bootlegs to 1 original is about the same ratio everywhere you go, records shops, fairs etc so ebay is no different...I don't see the problem - have you considered that some people just want the record cheap and don't even know or care about bootlegs?

But people aren't getting the record cheap, they are getting an expensive counterfeit that is actually worthless. If they want the tune cheap then just get it on CD or mp3, all the oldies are available and they weigh a lot less.

Of course I make an exception for really poor, rip off pressings

But that is generally what these recent boots are and what the topic is about. People are pressing up vinyl using any old sound as the basis and then selling them for two or three times what they cost to make.

It is a bit like buying fake designer clothes, you're OK when you're with other people in fake designer clothes but what you are actually wearing are usually obvious, cheap, badly made fakes.

[Dave Pinch]

mind you almost as bad is craig moerers overpriced buy it now cluttering USA ebay up..at least thats genuine stuff

[paultp]

what about trading standands...ebay uk would be shut down if they acted on what is up for sale on there..its a waste of time lookin on ebay uk as 99% is either counterfeit or just plain junk

Getting Trading standards to act is a bit of a catch 22, they will only do something if it can be proved and that needs the label owners or whoever has the rights to complain first.

Using the designer clothes analogy again, most clothing brands actively pursue counterfeiters and so it is policed. The music business doesn't really seem to care about anything other than current tunes because they still haven't woken up to the money to be made from back catalogues (other than Beatles, stones etc). Universal are the worst culprits IMO as they do nothing about people ripping off one of the best brands in the music business - Motown.

[Soulcarp]

you've only to look in wants some one wanted a record then quoted " not bother if its a boot " ffs while people buy them,they will allways be a market

[Jhsoulnotts]

its not just the bootlegs when i type in used i get bombarded with s**t new pressings that are so overpriced that makes me think why do people buy them.

garry

This is the other problem with eBay UK

[Guest Garry Huxley]

mind you almost as bad is craig moerers overpriced buy it now cluttering USA ebay up..at least thats genuine stuff

But when craig, like john manship sayes its mint, IT IS.

[Ernie Andrews]

Heres one was of causing the seller some grief!

Ive just bought an L Allen Boot on Ebay - I wont pay for it and a case will be taken out against me then Ebay have to investigate as I will present them with information that makes them think at least. I know they remove Beatles Stones presley etc if not Kosher- Ive even been involved recently with a cd single that when I spoke to the band they said the cds were fake as they only released it promo or issue in an mp3 format. Ebay were notified and the cds have been removed. WE shall see what happens over the L allen - The guy sells loads of other boots as well and I am summising he knows it!

P.S I have suggested to Ebay that they contact here to help them ridding of illegal copies if they take faking serious!

Edited January 3, 2013 by Ernie Andrews

[Jnixon]

one of the problems, Ebay or Trading standards would have is proving a record is an illegal copy. Now to most on here we can spot them, but to the untrained eye they wouldn't know where to start and I guess they have bigger fish to fry with Electrical goods, cars etc where it easier.

not defending them, but if they don't have the specialist resources it is difficult to track down and prove that fraud is taking place.

if anyone thinks ebay cares about £10 fake records and are willing to do anything about it you are badly wrong. what commercial organisation is going to spend time looking at £10 transactions in their 10000s unless they have to. its not a matter of resources they have enough money to what the like when they like if they want to. simple fact is they dont.

they will say this is what the resolution service is for.

i know people who have bought fake Dior eye liner that at worst might blind you and they didnt give a flying feck. make up is a bigger problem for them than antiques or records as it can seriously injure people and they dont really care about that as its too tough to police.

best you can ask for is that they close down a seller so best you can do is leave negative feedback if you think the seller is trying it on constantly. if you dont do anything ebay cant / wont.

[Pete S]

if anyone thinks ebay cares about £10 fake records and are willing to do anything about it you are badly wrong. what commercial organisation is going to spend time looking at £10 transactions in their 10000s unless they have to. its not a matter of resources they have enough money to what the like when they like if they want to. simple fact is they dont.

they will say this is what the resolution service is for.

i know people who have bought fake Dior eye liner that at worst might blind you and they didnt give a flying feck. make up is a bigger problem for them than antiques or records as it can seriously injure people and they dont really care about that as its too tough to police.

best you can ask for is that they close down a seller so best you can do is leave negative feedback if you think the seller is trying it on constantly. if you dont do anything ebay cant / wont.

Negative feedback doesn't seem to bother most of them, my missus bought some slippers for Grace before Christmas, they were two sizes smaller than advertised, so she sent them back, they refunded her but not her postage money so for their mistake she was £3 out of pocket. Anyway, I looked at their feedback and in the last MONTH they'd had like 25 negatives (most for the same thing) and altogether they had over 100 negatives, yet they are still allowed to trade. This is because they make so much money for ebay listing hundreds of items every week.

[Jhsoulnotts]

if anyone thinks ebay cares about £10 fake records and are willing to do anything about it you are badly wrong. what commercial organisation is going to spend time looking at £10 transactions in their 10000s unless they have to. its not a matter of resources they have enough money to what the like when they like if they want to. simple fact is they dont.

they will say this is what the resolution service is for.

i know people who have bought fake Dior eye liner that at worst might blind you and they didnt give a flying feck. make up is a bigger problem for them than antiques or records as it can seriously injure people and they dont really care about that as its too tough to police.

best you can ask for is that they close down a seller so best you can do is leave negative feedback if you think the seller is trying it on constantly. if you dont do anything ebay cant / wont.

I wish we were talking about £5/£10 records, but lots of boots are selling for big money now posing as the real deal, and folk who don't know better are being ripped off parting with 100s of pounds.

[Ian Seaman]

I had a fake rolex watch i bought in HK about 20 years ago, never wore it so bunged it on ebay and stated it was a copy/lookalike etc and ebay took it down off auction 3 times then warned me i would be banned if i listed it again.

i then sent them a link to about 40 pages of fake Rolex watches steadily selling on ebay and they replied that they couldn't find any reference in each auction to say they were fake watches even though i pointed out several times that real Rolex watches do sell for more then $19.99 !!!

As Pete said it's listing and final value fee's that they want and nothing else !!

Nobody seems bothered about negative feedback anymore too !!

Ian.

[Guest gordon russell]

could ebay be reported for allowing bootlegs to be sold through their sight knowingly?....if they were brought to book maybe they might do something....even the threat maybe enough......my guess is the view that would be taken is........who cares

[Guest gordon russell]

Negative feedback doesn't seem to bother most of them, my missus bought some slippers for Grace before Christmas, they were two sizes smaller than advertised, so she sent them back, they refunded her but not her postage money so for their mistake she was £3 out of pocket. Anyway, I looked at their feedback and in the last MONTH they'd had like 25 negatives (most for the same thing) and altogether they had over 100 negatives, yet they are still allowed to trade. This is because they make so much money for ebay listing hundreds of items every week.

should of looked at the feedback before you bought em.....always helps atb

[Jhsoulnotts]

Northern Soul on Watchdog you mean??

[Haydn]

It is a pain looking through a vast amount of pressings and boots on Ebay, but to be honest I have found a few beauties for cheap.

E.g. Orig Marv Johnson Demo for the wife...£40, there was around 12 pressings came up in the search from a fiver to a tenner. Nobody bid on the original.

It's your money you are parting with, just make sure you know what you're looking for

[Guest gordon russell]

A good way to rid eBay of these boots is to eliminate the demand. Could be wrong (especially because I don't live there) but I'm guessing that this demand mainly comes from folk up and down the UK who buy a boxful then hold monthly gigs at their local hotel or town hall charging a tenner on the door. Payback would be relatively rapid then a modest profit could be made. So if folk stop going to bootleg gigs the demand disappears... or have I got this totally wrong?

Cheers

Pete

nope

[Pete S]

should of looked at the feedback before you bought em.....always helps atb

I do, I didn't buy them

[Phild]

I have tried and tried with Ebay, reporting bootlegs etc.

Sales of my most recent release Gloria Jones - Gone With The Wind Is My Love were utterly ruined by a shite single sided bootleg.

Licensing, production etc don't come cheap and I ended up losing out quite heavily as a result.

In fact on Ebay this very day there are more bootleg copies of that track for sale than my legitimate ones.

[Guest gordon russell]

I do, I didn't buy them

ha ha ha ....think l know what you're saying.....remember pete "if ya want something doing right do it yourself" lol happy new year

[Pete S]

ha ha ha ....think l know what you're saying.....remember pete "if ya want something doing right do it yourself" lol happy new year

Happy New Year to you too mate, please feel free to argue with me whenever you wish during this coming year, livens it up a bit and no one gets hurt

[Dave Pinch]

But when craig, like john manship sayes its mint, IT IS.

not in my experience it aint with craig although when i complained i always been discounted..JM always been spot on tho

Edited January 3, 2013 by dave pinch

[NUFCSOUL]

As long as the fake/reissue/boot or whatever you what to call them records are mixed in with originals then the overall category listing is bollocks. I've always petitioned for separate categories - just as dealers and others selling on here list sometimes as Original / Pressings. How hard would it be to define the search down to say a one called Soul RnB / Northern Originals . Of course it may not stop arseholes posting pressings etc in it but just as on here when something is in the incorrect forum it gets moved . It might be a canny job being a Northern Soul originals record policeman on eBay!!!

[Sebastian]

Click "auctions only" at the top of the search page.

That way you'll at least get rid of all the buy-it-now's which accounts for about 13000 items in the northern soul category on UK eBay...

I.e.:

https://www.ebay.co.u...nc&LH_Auction=1

Edited January 3, 2013 by Sebastian

[Kev John]

Trouble with all this is that even bootlegs are being bootlegged !!!!!!!!!!

atb Kev

Edited January 3, 2013 by soulghost

[Guest Garry Huxley]

Trouble with all this is that even bootlegs are being bootlegged !!!!!!!!!!

atb Kev

And being sold in some cases for more than the originals, Still a fool & his money are easily parted.

I must admit when i first started buying around 1973 i diddent know any better then one night at casino this giant of a man took a few boots out of my hand, (Pat Brady), i was 15 at the time). He said "why are you buying these,for the same price you could buy a couple of these originals" At the time Dave richards (spook) & Keith Willams (soul searcher)Were giving me the same advice.

A PROTEGAE NEEDS MENTORS !!!!.

So lets educate, not criticise.

Happy new year to u all

Garry Huxley.

PS = Dont forget Soul in the bowl Rushden Northant's NN10 6AN 12th jan 2013 My first spot in about 10ish yrs but lots of buying since (original vinyl only)

[Guest Garry Huxley]

PPS. Superb thread Well done originator, Keep them coming.

Garry Huxley

[Guest t.o.t.s.s.c]

But when craig, like john manship sayes its mint, IT IS.

:lol: :lol:

[MotownDave]

its got to the stage where Ebay isn't worth the bother . i get feed up of wadeing through tons of crap and still not finding what i was looking for , and if i do is probably a boot or nackered . at least if you use the dealers if it aint right you're gonna get your money back

[Mick Sway]

its got to the stage where Ebay isn't worth the bother . i get feed up of wadeing through tons of crap and still not finding what i was looking for , and if i do is probably a boot or nackered . at least if you use the dealers if it aint right you're gonna get your money back

I know how you feel, most peoples idea of VG+ is miles off the record collector/manship/anglo guidance.

Although it may seem hypocritical as I've been trying to sell my own 1970's boots, I have reported a number

of contemporary booters to EBay, issues which have gone totally without response.

Sadly (often said before) the original artists don't benefit any more from a 1K original than they do from a boot.

I take it that Soul Nights promotions always have a performance license?

What about carvers?

Personally I would be glad to see the back end of modern day booters.

Thanks for an interesting post.

Mick

Edited January 3, 2013 by Mick Sway

[Thecivilservice]

But people aren't getting the record cheap, they are getting an expensive counterfeit that is actually worthless. If they want the tune cheap then just get it on CD or mp3, all the oldies are available and they weigh a lot less.

But that is generally what these recent boots are and what the topic is about. People are pressing up vinyl using any old sound as the basis and then selling them for two or three times what they cost to make.

It is a bit like buying fake designer clothes, you're OK when you're with other people in fake designer clothes but what you are actually wearing are usually obvious, cheap, badly made fakes.

Well as others have pointed out, boots have always been about - and I don't see how they are all such useless, poor quality records when there have been dozens or even 100s of posts in look at your box, many from people who seem to have some idea of what they are talking about trying to identify originals from boots, if it was that obvious then you could just tell folk to play them and they would know if it was real as the boots would all sound like sh*t??? Also some boots do have a value - whether you like it or not, if people are willing to pay an amount for them, then they have a value.

EDIT - sorry just realised we are talking about MODERN boots - well yes I agree they are rubbish, rip off records

Edited January 3, 2013 by thecivilservice

[Guest DELORENZO]

You can slag ebay off as much as you want, there's a lot of crap on there as well as good, but havn't we all looked through boxes of records, skipping through the crap to find the good ones in record shops, stalls & charity shops etc etc

I've found out the hard way too, on Ebay, on here, and on Big named sites (above mentioned), peoples idea of condition of a record, can be a lot to be desired. I sell on Ebay and the records I sell, are visually and play graded, and not tempting fate, I havn't received a bad feedback (4599 + ).

[Guest DELORENZO]

Look on the bright side we all could be watching Gary Barlow on ITV ........... (Bugger keep watching, I have shares in ITV PLC)