"simon Soussan" Update ?

[Ian Dewhirst]

I don't think anyone here is claiming that Simon is the Anti-Christ. And I don't think they were trying to diminish his contribution to The Northern Soul scene or Disco Music/modern Soul production. I think they were just commenting on things he DID do to them or others. SOME of them (not all) were saying that the negatives outweigh the positives in terms of overall effect on The Northern Soul scene.

I can't even know, for sure, if his action affecting me wasn't legitimate. There's a reasonable chance that Tom DePierro SOLD the Frank Wilson to him (his own idea), despite his telling me that Simon took it and never returned it. He needed cash badly, and I wouldn't have been surprised if he had sold it (maybe for $500 or so). He really didn't know what it would be worth. And Simon knew it was and would be worth much, much more, of course). Nevertheless, people who were wronged like to be able to complain about it, to get at least THAT as paltry compensation.

True Robb. He always credited me with 'saving his life' when I took a beer glass full on into my face when things turned nasty one night at the Mecca and, as a result, he managed to get out in one piece. However that didn't stop him ripping myself and Neil Rushton off when Shalamar took off. I'm a believer in karma, so what goes around comes around.

For instance, he always had appalling problems with a stomach ulcer so he spent a massive amount of time doubled-up in pain. When I saw him again some 17 years later, he was still in great pain. In fact, I seem to remember that Les McCutcheon had to bail him out so he could get some stomach surgery in the mid 90's. Irrelevant I know, but if you live by the sword etc, etc.....

Ian D

[Robbk]

True Robb. He always credited me with 'saving his life' when I took a beer glass full on into my face when things turned nasty one night at the Mecca and, as a result, he managed to get out in one piece. However that didn't stop him ripping myself and Neil Rushton off when Shalamar took off. I'm a believer in karma, so what goes around comes around.

For instance, he always had appalling problems with a stomach ulcer so he spent a massive amount of time doubled-up in pain. When I saw him again some 17 years later, he was still in great pain. In fact, I seem to remember that Les McCutcheon had to bail him out so he could get some stomach surgery in the mid 90's. Irrelevant I know, but if you live by the sword etc, etc.....

Ian D

I'm not at all surprised, considering the fact that he did a lot of underhanded dealing with people. Your comment on karma is very true, and has been proven by science. People who are not comfortable with themselves as a person have that expressed in affects on their health. I don't believe I've ever seen people that hurt other people at ease with themselves. They always suffer from one anxiety or another. If one can't look in the mirror and say "That guy (or Gal) is a good person", "that guy (or Gal) did his/her best to make The World a better place (or at least not to worsen it)", one cannot be really content, and when one feels badly about him(her)self, that often shows up in various types of illnesses both making them more susceptible to natural illnesses, or resulting in psychosomatic illnesses. Anxiety can make the blood pressure go up, change chemical balance to hurt sugar processing (leading to diabetes or other problems, can lead to hardening arteries, making the heart work too hard, digestion problems, ulcers,etc. The list goes on and on. In any case, I believe that people who knowingly choose to hurt other people or do them wrong in any way (for selfish reasons), are already hurting mentally, and suffer even before they perform the act.

I'm in my mid '60s already, and don't know how long I have left on this Earth. I can see already that I won't be able to take my records with me. All that I really will have at the end is to be able to be able to look back on my life and think: "Is The World a better place because I was here?". That will tell me the answer to the question I'll ask to the mirror-"Is that a good person?". The answer had better be YES, as otherwise I'll have nothing else for my time here. Talking about my records, I've got no children. Neither of my younger sisters, nor my brother, nor their children care about my records, (although one of them likes the old music a lot). So, I have no one to give them a good home. I'm hoping to put my records together with a few other Dutch big-time collectors, to found a Museum of African-American Recorded Music. I'm hoping to also get The Dutch Government to help with some funding to start it and run it, but that the latter part is pretty unlikely, given current and expected future budget problems. But, maybe we can get the space (facility) donated. Anyway, I'm also hoping maybe we can place it in Den Haag, and I can earn some money being a receptionist/guide/curator for it. One of the big collectors also lives around there.

[Jaco]

I'm not at all surprised, considering the fact that he did a lot of underhanded dealing with people. Your comment on karma is very true, and has been proven by science. People who are not comfortable with themselves as a person have that expressed in affects on their health. I don't believe I've ever seen people that hurt other people at ease with themselves. They always suffer from one anxiety or another. If one can't look in the mirror and say "That guy (or Gal) is a good person", "that guy (or Gal) did his/her best to make The World a better place (or at least not to worsen it)", one cannot be really content, and when one feels badly about him(her)self, that often shows up in various types of illnesses both making them more susceptible to natural illnesses, or resulting in psychosomatic illnesses. Anxiety can make the blood pressure go up, change chemical balance to hurt sugar processing (leading to diabetes or other problems, can lead to hardening arteries, making the heart work too hard, digestion problems, ulcers,etc. The list goes on and on. In any case, I believe that people who knowingly choose to hurt other people or do them wrong in any way (for selfish reasons), are already hurting mentally, and suffer even before they perform the act.

I'm in my mid '60s already, and don't know how long I have left on this Earth. I can see already that I won't be able to take my records with me. All that I really will have at the end is to be able to be able to look back on my life and think: "Is The World a better place because I was here?". That will tell me the answer to the question I'll ask to the mirror-"Is that a good person?". The answer had better be YES, as otherwise I'll have nothing else for my time here. Talking about my records, I've got no children. Neither of my younger sisters, nor my brother, nor their children care about my records, (although one of them likes the old music a lot). So, I have no one to give them a good home. I'm hoping to put my records together with a few other Dutch big-time collectors, to found a Museum of African-American Recorded Music. I'm hoping to also get The Dutch Government to help with some funding to start it and run it, but that the latter part is pretty unlikely, given current and expected future budget problems. But, maybe we can get the space (facility) donated. Anyway, I'm also hoping maybe we can place it in Den Haag, and I can earn some money being a receptionist/guide/curator for it. One of the big collectors also lives around there.

So Robb just how many records do you have?

Given that you've been collecting for a considerable time I would imagine it's a sizeable collection.

Have you always retained your stuff or have you traded/moved stuff on at times?

[Steve L]

I always find threads like this interesting, rights and wrongs put aside its all part of the history of the scene in the 70s.

I was slightly to young to be involved in the "golden period" but have always loved to hear and read about those time.

Any threads involving/about any of the major players of the time are ok by me?

Ian Dewhirst maybe you should write a book? I'd buy a copy

[Ady Croasdell]

I've mentioned this before, butI was the first to see his collection of forgeries when he met me in the YMCA in LA after a copy of Broadway Sissy. He offered me several copies of the lookalikes that were all prisitine and when I checked they were obviously boots, so I wasn't interested. I had 5 copies of Broadway Sissy though (I forgot to tell him that) so I think he gave me a good handful of all the titles once he realised he hadn't been fooled. The point of re-telling this is that I told a UK collector to put the word about that they were boots but people still bought them as they were cheap and they wanted to believe they were real. When they arrived everybody was pissed off but they were buying of Soussain and had been warned so not many grounds for complaint really.

[Chalky]

I always find threads like this interesting, rights and wrongs put aside its all part of the history of the scene in the 70s.

I was slightly to young to be involved in the "golden period" but have always loved to hear and read about those time.

Any threads involving/about any of the major players of the time are ok by me?

Ian Dewhirst maybe you should write a book? I'd buy a copy

Spot on Steve. I love the history of the scene, warts an all, I want to hear about as much as I can.

"characters" is what the scene is lacking these days .

[Agentsmith]

I always find threads like this interesting, rights and wrongs put aside its all part of the history of the scene in the 70s.

I was slightly to young to be involved in the "golden period" but have always loved to hear and read about those time.

Any threads involving/about any of the major players of the time are ok by me?

Ian Dewhirst maybe you should write a book? I'd buy a copy

i'll second that steve, so ian, its time you committed to paper...nice glossy hardback please......with A LIMITED EDITION, GENUINE FIRST ISSUE BOOTLEG, AUTOGRAPHED BY SIMON! seriously, it would have to make fascinating reading...even amidst the gnashing of teeth!

[Steve G]

Spot on Steve. I love the history of the scene, warts an all, I want to hear about as much as I can.

"characters" is what the scene is lacking these days .

I don't know Chalky, I am sure there's a few tales we could tell of Mick H on the "lash" in Europe :lol:

As for Soussan:

Fight at the Mecca and Ian taking the glass and saving Soussan's pretty face is the most interesting part for me. What was that all about? Didn't Soussan also DJ at Casino once? And was he ever officially "outed" as Russ's mysterious "Uncle in Florida" who was sending sounds over every week. Maybe all for another thread - "Leg-Ends we love to hate" ?

Edited December 20, 2012 by Steve G

[Robbk]

So Robb just how many records do you have?

Given that you've been collecting for a considerable time I would imagine it's a sizeable collection.

Have you always retained your stuff or have you traded/moved stuff on at times?

I'd rather not say how many records I have. I've never counted them in any case. But I collect Old R&B, Blues, Jazz, Gospel, and early-mid '60s Soul (mainly 1946-1967). Someone looking for NS would find it interspersed among all the other genres. I live in four different countries each year, and have records in all of them and records in storage as well. So a NS-oriented burglar wouldn't find much of what he would be looking for. Even given THAT, given some of my previous experience, I don't think I'd want it known on this forum, the locations of my various domiciles. I think that most of you will understand that.

I've kept most of my collection intact, trading off mostly only duplicates. But, I have traded off a handful of big NS records for rare Detroit Soul items. I specialise in Detroit and Chicago.

[Ian Dewhirst]

I've mentioned this before, butI was the first to see his collection of forgeries when he met me in the YMCA in LA after a copy of Broadway Sissy. He offered me several copies of the lookalikes that were all prisitine and when I checked they were obviously boots, so I wasn't interested. I had 5 copies of Broadway Sissy though (I forgot to tell him that) so I think he gave me a good handful of all the titles once he realised he hadn't been fooled. The point of re-telling this is that I told a UK collector to put the word about that they were boots but people still bought them as they were cheap and they wanted to believe they were real. When they arrived everybody was pissed off but they were buying of Soussain and had been warned so not many grounds for complaint really.

Yep, it was definitely a 'caveat emptor' or buyer beware scenario with S.S. every time. I remember buying a Prince George and a George Blackwell off him and receiving 'em but was never totally convinced that the George Blackwell was real as it wasn't so easy to check against a real one back then. So I moved it on. However, I'm still not entirely sure. That was the problem back then, in that some of his boots were very very limited for some reason. It still left a bad taste though.

Just to recap on the Mecca incident: Soussan was looking through my box and pulled out 2 relative cheapies at the time which he didn't know - one of them was Shona Springfield "I Need A Rest" on Rialto I think. He was offering some brilliant swaps for them, so I was obviously anxious to get the deal consumated. But as this was going on, there was a real atmosphere of discontent reverberating around the Highland Room and a crowd started to build up behind us. One or two people were saying, "Oi Soussan. You owe me for records I paid for you tw*t" etc, etc and the atmosphere was getting more intense as more and more people started crowding behind us. Richard Searling could see what was coming and said "Er, Simon, I think it's time to go". At that point some half-wit was digging into my back, when all I wanted to do was get the deal done and get my records off Soussan. Then the digging in my back became more vicious, so I kinda lost it and pushed back from the bar to relieve the pressure but that caused a kind of mexican wave effect and people started to fall over at the back. Then I turned around to confront whoever was pushing me in the back and a pebbled one pint glass hit me squarely in the face busting my nose and blacking my eyes in the process. In the ensuing chaos Soussan nipped out sharply and got away. I cleaned up and continued on to Wigan. Never did get any records out of it!

Ian D

[Steve Foran]

I've mentioned this before, butI was the first to see his collection of forgeries when he met me in the YMCA in LA after a copy of Broadway Sissy. He offered me several copies of the lookalikes that were all prisitine and when I checked they were obviously boots, so I wasn't interested. I had 5 copies of Broadway Sissy though (I forgot to tell him that) so I think he gave me a good handful of all the titles once he realised he hadn't been fooled. The point of re-telling this is that I told a UK collector to put the word about that they were boots but people still bought them as they were cheap and they wanted to believe they were real. When they arrived everybody was pissed off but they were buying of Soussain and had been warned so not many grounds for complaint really.

I well recall being in the Pigrims Inn Bedford when Steve Cooper had the list from SS.All purporting to be originals. From memory Mel Britt,George Blackwell,Salvadors,Billy Prophett etc.ALL TOP TUNES AT THE TIME. I bought Mel Britt from it. About £6 in or around 75/76. Anyhow it was one of the boots with the stamped number and white bit showing at the edge of the centre of the label. Being a punter/dancer without much cash at the time it was not funny. Tend to agree with Diddie Morgan, whilst I enjoy the saga about SS, I to would love to hear more from the likes of Tim Ashibende,Dave Raistrick,John Manship,Rod and Dave etc. MAYBE the forthcoming discovery/record delving book will tell us more? Happy Christmas everyone.

[Steve Foran]

Yep, it was definitely a 'caveat emptor' or buyer beware scenario with S.S. every time. I remember buying a Prince George and a George Blackwell off him and receiving 'em but was never totally convinced that the George Blackwell was real as it wasn't so easy to check against a real one back then. So I moved it on. However, I'm still not entirely sure. That was the problem back then, in that some of his boots were very very limited for some reason. It still left a bad taste though.

Just to recap on the Mecca incident: Soussan was looking through my box and pulled out 2 relative cheapies at the time which he didn't know - one of them was Shona Springfield "I Need A Rest" on Rialto I think. He was offering some brilliant swaps for them, so I was obviously anxious to get the deal consumated. But as this was going on, there was a real atmosphere of discontent reverberating around the Highland Room and a crowd started to build up behind us. One or two people were saying, "Oi Soussan. You owe me for records I paid for you tw*t" etc, etc and the atmosphere was getting more intense as more and more people started crowding behind us. Richard Searling could see what was coming and said "Er, Simon, I think it's time to go". At that point some half-wit was digging into my back, when all I wanted to do was get the deal done and get my records off Soussan. Then the digging in my back became more vicious, so I kinda lost it and pushed back from the bar to relieve the pressure but that caused a kind of mexican wave effect and people started to fall over at the back. Then I turned around to confront whoever was pushing me in the back and a pebbled one pint glass hit me squarely in the face busting my nose and blacking my eyes in the process. In the ensuing chaos Soussan nipped out sharply and got away. I cleaned up and continued on to Wigan. Never did get any records out of it!

Ian D

Re G Blackwell.I bought one from a well known trader about 15 years ago, then a JM book appeared stating original or boot. Turned out mine was a boot. Eventually got my money back. Anyhow dealer continued to hawk it about and sold it at a weekender. By the time the buyer realised dealer had left the venue. So buyer insisted on his money back BEFORE returning the disc.When he got his money back the buyer drilled through the disc. Then sent it back. Guess SS was not the only crook eh?

[Pete S]

I well recall being in the Pigrims Inn Bedford when Steve Cooper had the list from SS.All purporting to be originals. From memory Mel Britt,George Blackwell,Salvadors,Billy Prophett etc.ALL TOP TUNES AT THE TIME. I bought Mel Britt from it. About £6 in or around 75/76. Anyhow it was one of the boots with the stamped number and white bit showing at the edge of the centre of the label. Being a punter/dancer without much cash at the time it was not funny. Tend to agree with Diddie Morgan, whilst I enjoy the saga about SS, I to would love to hear more from the likes of Tim Ashibende,Dave Raistrick,John Manship,Rod and Dave etc. MAYBE the forthcoming discovery/record delving book will tell us more? Happy Christmas everyone.

Those were all sold via Russ's Records in Wigan, I got the list on the day of my last exam at school so that would have been April 76.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian Dewhirst maybe you should write a book? I'd buy a copy

It's a question of time Steve. It's one of my plans for next year if the demands of running a record label allow it!

Ian D

[Steve G]

Just to recap on the Mecca incident: Soussan was looking through my box and pulled out 2 relative cheapies at the time which he didn't know - one of them was Shona Springfield "I Need A Rest" on Rialto I think. He was offering some brilliant swaps for them, so I was obviously anxious to get the deal consumated. But as this was going on, there was a real atmosphere of discontent reverberating around the Highland Room and a crowd started to build up behind us. One or two people were saying, "Oi Soussan. You owe me for records I paid for you tw*t" etc, etc and the atmosphere was getting more intense as more and more people started crowding behind us. Richard Searling could see what was coming and said "Er, Simon, I think it's time to go". At that point some half-wit was digging into my back, when all I wanted to do was get the deal done and get my records off Soussan. Then the digging in my back became more vicious, so I kinda lost it and pushed back from the bar to relieve the pressure but that caused a kind of mexican wave effect and people started to fall over at the back. Then I turned around to confront whoever was pushing me in the back and a pebbled one pint glass hit me squarely in the face busting my nose and blacking my eyes in the process. In the ensuing chaos Soussan nipped out sharply and got away. I cleaned up and continued on to Wigan. Never did get any records out of it!

Ian D

Those were the days eh Ian?

I well recall being in the Pigrims Inn Bedford when Steve Cooper had the list from SS.All purporting to be originals. From memory Mel Britt,George Blackwell,Salvadors,Billy Prophett etc.ALL TOP TUNES AT THE TIME. I bought Mel Britt from it. About £6 in or around 75/76. Anyhow it was one of the boots with the stamped number and white bit showing at the edge of the centre of the label. Being a punter/dancer without much cash at the time it was not funny.

I got caught with one of those too Steve when I was a kid from some tosser in Wolverhampton. I asked for confirmation of a stamped original and he sent me the dodgy stamped 2nd press. We only had mail then, no email and no mobiles and he never answered me after that.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Steve G

[Jaco]

I'd rather not say how many records I have. I've never counted them in any case. But I collect Old R&B, Blues, Jazz, Gospel, and early-mid '60s Soul (mainly 1946-1967). Someone looking for NS would find it interspersed among all the other genres. I live in four different countries each year, and have records in all of them and records in storage as well. So a NS-oriented burglar wouldn't find much of what he would be looking for. Even given THAT, given some of my previous experience, I don't think I'd want it known on this forum, the locations of my various domiciles. I think that most of you will understand that.

I've kept most of my collection intact, trading off mostly only duplicates. But, I have traded off a handful of big NS records for rare Detroit Soul items. I specialise in Detroit and Chicago.

Appreciate what you are saying Robb.

[Pete S]

Those were the days eh Ian?

I got caught with one of those too Steve when I was a kid from some tosser in Wolverhampton. I asked for confirmation of a stamped original and he sent me the dodgy stamped 2nd press. We only had mail then, no email and no mobiles and he never answered me after that.

Before anyone says anything - it wasn't me!

[Steve G]

Yes I can confirm it was NOT Pete.

[Mick Holdsworth]

So the box I saw was no more than 500 - all the big titles - wonder who had the rest? It was broked as "Soussan's collection".

]

Steve, I seem to remember Iain Stewart had SS's records for sale in the early/mid eighties. Apparently when he either listed them or just priced them up, the prices were all to cock, lots of ridiculous bargains went out (Stanley Mitchell for £5 stuck in my mind, but there would have been loads more). I don't know the quantity of records involved, I never saw them, only heard about a week after everyone else had. It may have been SS's complete collection, or just a small portion.

Also,.this may have been at a later time than the 500 box you saw, so I may be talking about a completely seperate occasion. Best I can remember, it would be about 82/83. Can't be more than a year either side though.

Cheers

Mick

[Guest Dave Turner]

Soussan's infamous header page from 1976.

I remember either seeing this or reading about it at the time, especially the bottom half of the page.

Unfortunately I don't have scans of the 45s list, just this page.

[Patto]

Soussan's infamous header page from 1976.

I remember either seeing this or reading about it at the time, especially the bottom half of the page.

Unfortunately I don't have scans of the 45s list, just this page.

Thats the first time i've seen that incredible reading.The scene must have been in real turmoil at the time.Thanks for posting Dave

[Rick Cooper]

I have a few old Simon Soussan lists and this is one of the best examples of his style. It's from June 1973 so could be just before he got into bootlegging big time but when he had started going off into the realms of fantasy.

Award yourself points if you can identify all the fictitious titles listed .

The claim at the end of the list that he ran a northern soul club in L A where 700 people attended sounds dubious. I couldn't imagine young kids in 73 wanting to hear 60s soul music.

To get back to the original question of this thread I think it's strange that Simon never re-appeared 15 or so years ago trying to flog his bootlegs, dodgy instrumentals or even write his memoirs (file under fiction).

If he had died he was enough of a bit player in the US record business that it would have been reported or at least someone like Ian D would have heard something.

Maybe he is a repentant sinner and lives a simple life in a log cabin in the Arizona desert, but this seems unlikely .

However until someone finds out where he is , like it or not, the speculation will go on. Like a lot of villains, of all types, they seem to hold a fascination with the public.

Rick

[Robbk]

I have a few old Simon Soussan lists and this is one of the best examples of his style. It's from June 1973 so could be just before he got into bootlegging big time but when he had started going off into the realms of fantasy.

Award yourself points if you can identify all the fictitious titles listed .

The claim at the end of the list that he ran a northern soul club in L A where 700 people attended sounds dubious. I couldn't imagine young kids in 73 wanting to hear 60s soul music.

To get back to the original question of this thread I think it's strange that Simon never re-appeared 15 or so years ago trying to flog his bootlegs, dodgy instrumentals or even write his memoirs (file under fiction).

If he had died he was enough of a bit player in the US record business that it would have been reported or at least someone like Ian D would have heard something.

Maybe he is a repentant sinner and lives a simple life in a log cabin in the Arizona desert, BUT THIS SEEMS UNLIKELY .

However until someone finds out where he is , like it or not, the speculation will go on. Like a lot of villains, of all types, they seem to hold a fascination with the public.

Rick

I'll say! There are no synagogues nor kosher butcher shops in The Arizona Desert, and certainly not enough religious Jews to form a minion!

[Veedub]

Ive just been reading all these stories, fascinating stuff !! All scenes and hobbies have "loveable rogues" characters good and bad. , but then again, the world would be a dull place if we were all the same

As its that time of year again....

if you're still out there and reading this post Mr Soussan....

Merry Xmas , and a Happy New Year to you..

[Steve G]

Soussan's infamous header page from 1976.

I remember either seeing this or reading about it at the time, especially the bottom half of the page.

Unfortunately I don't have scans of the 45s list, just this page.

Strewth, having read that tirade it is obvious that he was completely mad as well as being a thief and rip off merchant. What a sad individual he really was.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Steve G

[Rick Cooper]

I'll say! There are no synagogues nor kosher butcher shops in The Arizona Desert, and certainly not enough religious Jews to form a minion!

Oops,,, Sorry Robb.

I wasn't seriously saying Simon lives in the desert , it was just an example of somewhere away from mainstream society with no internet, google , facebook, twitter and soul source . I could have said a beach hut in Norfolk but that would have been asking for trouble,

Rick

[Guest rasfoz]

Oops,,, Sorry Robb.

I wasn't seriously saying Simon lives in the desert , it was just an example of somewhere away from mainstream society with no internet, google , facebook, twitter and soul source . I could have said a beach hut in Norfolk but that would have been asking for trouble,

Rick

Indeed sir Norfolk is a splendid place

[Robbk]

Oops,,, Sorry Robb.

I wasn't seriously saying Simon lives in the desert , it was just an example of somewhere away from mainstream society with no internet, google , facebook, twitter and soul source . I could have said a beach hut in Norfolk but that would have been asking for trouble,

Rick

I knew you were kidding. I just wanted to get my deadpan joke in. I have resisted using smilies most of my Internet career. But, I see, now, that I'm going to have to use them almost all the time. ARRRGH!

[Peter99]

. I have resisted using smilies most of my Internet career. But, I see, now, that I'm going to have to use them almost all the time. ARRRGH!

Emoticons old chap, emoticons! I would have thought a man who moves in your circles would have know that.

LOL

Peter

[MrsWoodsrules]

Got to say, some rose tinted specs on this thread & very interesting reading too, for people like Ian D who know him & can relate & that's fine & right (even though he ripped them off too), but for me, he was nothing but a merchant & for the most part responsible for the demise of the quality of soul music via Russ at the Casino, I know dozens of guys I could write books about, so what? His legacy was bad for the music IMO, for me, he is bad news.

Aid.

[KevH]

The trouble is Aid,bad news sells.

[MrsWoodsrules]

The trouble is Aid,bad news sells.

Fair comment Kev, just he going down into legend as some kind of Northern Soul Keyser Soza (Spelling??)

It's like saying.....yeah, The Krays, they were such nice boys & only ever murdered there own kind.....boll*cks.........

He would have sold his own mother, end of, what exactly is good about a person like that, prey tell?

Aid.

[KevH]

Fair comment Kev, just he going down into legend as some kind of Northern Soul Keyser Soza (Spelling??)

It's like saying.....yeah, The Krays, they were such nice boys & only ever murdered there own kind.....boll*cks.........

He would have sold his own mother, end of, what exactly is good about a person like that, prey tell?

Aid.

I agree with you.

[Jaco]

Fair comment Kev, just he going down into legend as some kind of Northern Soul Keyser Soza (Spelling??)

It's like saying.....yeah, The Krays, they were such nice boys & only ever murdered there own kind.....boll*cks.........

He would have sold his own mother, end of, what exactly is good about a person like that, prey tell?

Aid.

I don't disagree Aid, I was on the wrong end of some of his dealings but........

He definitely shaped part of the Northern Soul landscape and is therefore worthy of reflective assessment, good or bad.

[MrsWoodsrules]

I don't disagree Aid, I was on the wrong end of some of his dealings but........

He definitely shaped part of the Northern Soul landscape and is therefore worthy of reflective assessment, good or bad.

True Jacko, I understand that, but it's fair to say it was under his sponsorship that a lot of the crap spewing out of the speakers late Wigan was directly down to this tool.

Aid.

[Peter99]

Keyser Soza (Spelling??)

Aid.

Bloody cheek Aid! That was one of my finest SS moments of 2012 - and you've bastardised it. Anyway, you spelt it wrong - it's Keyser Soze!

Peter

[MrsWoodsrules]

Bloody cheek Aid! That was one of my finest SS moments of 2012 - and you've bastardised it. Anyway, you spelt it wrong - it's Keyser Soze!

Peter

Yeah, soz Peter, I knew I'd seen it somewhere, sorry to plagiarise, but it is apt.

Anyways, my favourite Christmas film of all time is on C5 now, check it out, Christmas With The Kranks, check it out bud.

Aid.

[billysbag]

Bloody cheek Aid! That was one of my finest SS moments of 2012 - and you've bastardised it. Anyway, you spelt it wrong - it's Keyser Soze!

Peter

kaiser soze

[Jim Ohara]

SS may have been a bit of a crook etc. but let's face it the scene has been littered with these type of characters for many years

Ok they may not be as infamous as SS, but I'm sure we have all came across some well dodgy characters over the years

Personally it's all part of the scene

To me it's been a good thread so far and I really enjoy hearing stories about characters like SS

[Jaco]

True Jacko, I understand that, but it's fair to say it was under his sponsorship that a lot of the crap spewing out of the speakers late Wigan was directly down to this tool.

Aid.

Aid, I get that too but sometimes you have to appreciate the less obvious things that certain people have done and I think he contributed at least as much good stuff as bad.

Just an even handed view, that's all.

[MrsWoodsrules]

Aid, I get that too but sometimes you have to appreciate the less obvious things that certain people have done and I think he contributed at least as much good stuff as bad.

Just an even handed view, that's all.

Of course that's fair enough Jaco, my opinion is just one opinion too.

I know lots of people I like that, let's say..........flaunt the establishment, that's life.

My main gripe here is that his influenced the degration of soul music at that time, that's all.

It's not the end of the world, (phew! With that Mayan stuff)

It's just my opinion for what it's worth.

No worries & who really cares anyway.

Aid.

[Steve G]

Look the guy was one of the first people to be allowed into the chocolate factory. So obvious then that he'd find lots of chocolate lying around.

Stop being such a bunch of sentimental fools about this horrid specimen.....Bah Humbug!

[MrsWoodsrules]

Bit dramatic without charachters like him the scene would have dissapeared up its own a--e,thats a fact. When you think about when he started to send stuff over here and what was amongst it,really you should be grateful,

ok we all know about the pressings and dodgy instrumentals etc,so what ?anyone who had the same opportunity would have jumped at the chance to make the money(or are we thinking English gentlemen here?) the scene was there to be milked at the time and it certainly was,just so happened that Soussans name was right up there,,what about all the other people that sold his stuff? forgotten all their names? .............or have we?

Steve

Maybe thats another topic.................How long would the Northern scene have lasted without charachters/or who thinks the scene is dishonest

Am not gonna bang on here being anti-SS, but that's not right, also the scene, when its was thriving at its absolute pinnacle in the later half of the 70's, spiralled right down in it's quality of soul music, exactly because of people like him. It's people like Anderson, Dickie S & Soul Sam to name a few, but certainly not SS, he contributed zilch, except a dearth of cr*p on the turntable.

That's the last i'm gonna say on the subject as I've already contributed too much about it.

Aid.

[Ian Dewhirst]

That's just not right Aid. He probably discovered more records than anyone between 70-73 and we benefited because he was distributing them via a handful of UK dealers. As Steve pointed out, he was in a chocolate factory finding loads of chocolate but, as a result, we got loads of great records just as the scene was demanding them and his taste was usually spot on. So he supplied a demand. He wasn't a nice person in my opinion but he sure knew tunes. I'd say that the majority of new discoveries between 70-75 came either directly or indirectly through him without a doubt, including a lot of cheapies on various people's lists. That's where "Cool Off", "Rosemary What Happened", "Ain't Nothing You Can Do", Your Loves Too Strong", "Love On A Rampage" and numerous others came from.

But, apart from that, the guy's got hardly any redeeming features.....

Ian D

Edited December 24, 2012 by Ian Dewhirst

[KevH]

Please Ian....not Donna Coleman!! Ruined my Chrimbo you have.

[MrsWoodsrules]

That's just not right Aid. He probably discovered more records than anyone between 70-73 and we benefited because he was distributing them via a handful of UK dealers. As Steve pointed out, he was in a chocolate factory finding loads of chocolate but, as a result, we got loads of great records just as the scene was demanding them and his taste was usually spot on. So he supplied a demand. He wasn't a nice person in my opinion but he sure knew tunes. I'd say that the majority of new discoveries between 70-75 came either directly or indirectly through him without a doubt, including a lot of cheapies on various people's lists. That's where "Cool Off", "Rosemary What Happened", "Ain't Nothing You Can Do", Your Loves Too Strong", "Love On A Rampage" and numerous others came from.

But, apart from that, the guy's got hardly any redeeming features.....

Ian D

Okay Ian & I certainly bow to your better experience & knowledge.

I did say I wouldn't comment further, but what I would say, you can't just cherry pick, because Winstanley was also plying some drivel sponsored by this man and that material was very influential on the scene at that time & the general quality was absolute dross, this was the halcyon day of Northern Soul.

But really don't want to get into a barney with thee as I'll never win......also, I'm a tad drunk at the moment.

Respect to thee though.

Aid.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Okay Ian & I certainly bow to your better experience & knowledge.

I did say I wouldn't comment further, but what I would say, you can't just cherry pick, because Winstanley was also plying some drivel sponsored by this man and that material was very influential on the scene at that time & the general quality was absolute dross, this was the halcyon day of Northern Soul.

But really don't want to get into a barney with thee as I'll never win......also, I'm a tad drunk at the moment.

Respect to thee though.

Aid.

Why thankyou Aid and compliments of the season to you too sir.

I certainly think Soussan did a lot to harm the scene from around '75 when he was pimping all the tailor-mades around, so I can absolutely see where you're coming from but that should also be balanced with the stuff he came up with earlier on, which generally was first-rate.

Anyway, Merry Christmas!

Ian D

[slimharpo]

I've mentioned this before, butI was the first to see his collection of forgeries when he met me in the YMCA in LA after a copy of Broadway Sissy. He offered me several copies of the lookalikes that were all prisitine and when I checked they were obviously boots, so I wasn't interested. I had 5 copies of Broadway Sissy though (I forgot to tell him that) so I think he gave me a good handful of all the titles once he realised he hadn't been fooled. The point of re-telling this is that I told a UK collector to put the word about that they were boots but people still bought them as they were cheap and they wanted to believe they were real. When they arrived everybody was pissed off but they were buying of Soussain and had been warned so not many grounds for complaint really.

This thread reminded me (aka John Evans) of the time myself and Detroit Soul Legend Bob Foster, no not that one the real one from Llandudno who Ady knows well, having found Johnny Maestro in Bob's coal shed one time, jointly funded a trip to New York in Feb '72 to buy records. Sorry if this wanders off thread a little, but you might find it interesting. I 'interviewed' Bob this week over a pint, a pork pie and a roaring log fire at his favourite pub (the only way to guarantee getting him out).

I'd answered an ad in record Mirror in 1971 for a 100 record Soul pack for $9 from an address in Trenton, New Jersey. The records arrived and they were a great selection. You have to bear in mind that neither mine nor Bob's awreness of 'rarity' was particularly developed at that time. I sent for another pack which never arrived and so we decided Bob should go and track him down, as you do. I couldn't go as I was married and only had 2 weeks holiday a year then which I was expected to spend with my wife in Ibiza

Bob got the plane and asked the bus driver to recommend him a hotel, the recommendation was perfect as it was very near Colony Records in N.Y. On his first visit there he bumped into Simon Soussan who was already sending out lists in the U.K. Bob remembers buying Larry Atkins- Lighten Up for 75p. Bob met S.S. again at Greenwich Oldies a few days later. They never 'teamed up' buying competition being the priority Bob went out to the Trenton, N.J. address and was shown a garage full of records in 50 record boxes, Okeh Demos etc. Bob filled 2 hold alls at 3 cents a record because of what the guy owed us. Bob admits to just grabbing handfuls as many titles meant little to him at the time. While he was there, 2 guys from Selecta Disc arrived and Bob thinks they probably bought the lot.

When Bob got back we put lists out and I got most all my money for the trip back, Bob took records in lieu for what was left. Bob gave me a copy of one of the lists which I will post on here sometime, some very rare stuff on it. Jimmy Ruffin on Miracle was on there for a £1 but we couldn't shift it at that price nor 75p so Bob kept it. We made most money on Mamie galore- It Aint Necessary which was huge then and Swinging Camels - Detroit Road Runners!

Bob also went to The Apollo on his own and saw Joe Simon, Betty Wright, Jimmy Briscoe etc. he also went to Earl Wright's record shop on 125th St although he is not sure if it was That Earl Wright.

Perhaps I should start a Bob Foster thread as he was a noted collector of Detroit Soul in particular and he told me the story of his copy of Lady In Red - The Magnetics which he bought in '72 and how he sold it to Martin Barnfather (Soul Sam) who I introduced him to and his second visit to The States in '76 where he met up with Martin Koppel in Detroit and his visit to Ron Motown Murphy.

By the way Ady, I have persuaded Bob to go to Prestatyn in March so hopefully we can meet up again if you have the time.

[Mark Malvern]

At one of the recent “Mecca Memories” events at Teddington (2019), Ian Levine told me that he is in touch with Simon Soussan who is “living in Israel , I think ; he’s on Facebook!” 

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, Mark Malvern said:

At one of the recent “Mecca Memories” events at Teddington (2019), Ian Levine told me that he is in touch with Simon Soussan who is “living in Israel , I think ; he’s on Facebook!” 

Common knowledge his whereabouts and that he is on facebook, or so I thought. He doesn’t get involved and has no interest in the scene.