Stylus And Cartridges Please Help

[Quinvy]

Talc should be banned. If you had to clean up after an allnighter, you wouldn't use it again. It gets everywhere, and 5 minutes after you have removed it.............another load has descended. F***ing nightmare!

[Tony A]

I used the Shure White Labels for years, and found them superb. I changed the needles every second nighter. 

 

Before I bought them I wrote to all the manufacturers asking for advice on the best cart/stylus combination to use for 60's/70's 45's. Shure were the only ones who got back to me, and gave me lots of information.

 

For Djing, I think the White Labels are the best.

 

By the way, if you are going to use the Shure White Labels, you will need to have the extra tone arm weights that screw in to the back of the tone arm. Otherwise you will struggle to balance it. These are very heavy carts compared to the Stantons etc. I think that's why you can use them with very little weight and they don't jump. 

 

Weight of the cartridges doesn't matter as you are supposed to zero them into balance with the counterbalance feature, then add your tracking weight,

[Mark R]

Weight of the cartridges doesn't matter as you are supposed to zero them into balance with the counterbalance feature, then add your tracking weight,

Yeah, but if the tracking force required is high, as it is for many DJ styli, then the result is the same! ! I have Ortofon Night Club S on my Technics 1210's in my "play" room and they are quite high tracking force (3g?). I also run with the anti-skate slightly off ideal to keep the stylus in the groove when cueing/mixing.

I tend to play rarer records on my Dual CS505-4 on my separates system in the lounge. Going by the anti-skate setting on that, which I assume is set up ideally and not for DJ'ing (I didn't set it up, it was done in the shop), then it looks like that tracks at 1.25g.

Like I say you're wasting your time worrying about it if you play your rare 7's out at gigs, unless you take your own carts/ stylii, and I can"t believe many do that........who's got the time to do that between sets? They would need setting up as there's little point just swapping them if the settings are wrong, other than knowing that the tip was at least OK, which is something I suppose.

The ONLY sound argument for CD-R's in my opinion. ......that I would respect if it were a DJ that I KNOW has the tunes.

Cheers,

Mark R

[Quinvy]

Weight of the cartridges doesn't matter as you are supposed to zero them into balance with the counterbalance feature, then add your tracking weight,

Yes it does, because you can't balance the tone arms with the Shure carts unless all the weights are attached. I'm talking about Technics 1200's now. I have never used any other turntable. Most people use light weight carts like the Ortofon and most have discarded the extra weights.

Also, I used the White Label carts with only 1.5gms tracking weight and they worked perfectly.

[Quinvy]

Yeah, but if the tracking force required is high, as it is for many DJ styli, then the result is the same! ! I have Ortofon Night Club S on my Technics 1210's in my "play" room and they are quite high tracking force (3g?). I also run with the anti-skate slightly off ideal to keep the stylus in the groove when cueing/mixing.

I tend to play rarer records on my Dual CS505-4 on my separates system in the lounge. Going by the anti-skate setting on that, which I assume is set up ideally and not for DJ'ing (I didn't set it up, it was done in the shop), then it looks like that tracks at 1.25g.

Like I say you're wasting your time worrying about it if you play your rare 7's out at gigs, unless you take your own carts/ stylii, and I can"t believe many do that........who's got the time to do that between sets? They would need setting up as there's little point just swapping them if the settings are wrong, other than knowing that the tip was at least OK, which is something I suppose.

The ONLY sound argument for CD-R's in my opinion. ......that I would respect if it were a DJ that I KNOW has the tunes.

Cheers,

Mark R

You are totally correct. You would cause more damage to your vinyl by fitting your own carts to a pair of decks at a nighter without setting up the tone arms properly first. I well remember James Trouble fitting his own carts in the decks at a Lifeline allnighter. What a disaster. Every record jumped constantly, and ruined his set.

[Kris Holmes]

been using White Labels exclusively for a while now, hands down the best cart I've ever had for 45s, no troubles with fragility & no troubles with tonearm weight whatsoever...... would recommend without question

[Philt]

been using White Labels exclusively for a while now, hands down the best cart I've ever had for 45s, no troubles with fragility & no troubles with tonearm weight whatsoever...... would recommend without question

Same here. I change stylus every 3 sessions (only once a year in our case) and have just bought a spare Shure cart as back-up; got several others but no comparison. Never had anything but quality from them thus far and would recommend them without hesitation.

[Guest enchantedrythm]

It's time to replace my Stanton 500 AL II

I'm really really embaraced to ask for advice as i don't know anything about the subject :/ first the terminology - stylus is needle right? cartridge is the body which holds the needle, right? and there is shell... cartidge is going on the shell?

https://www.juno.co.uk/products/stanton-500-al-ii-twin-cartridge/106565-01/

so this is cartridge without stylus? and it needs the shell to be placed on right? i have Technics shells, which were on the almost brand new decks, when i bought them a while ago.

i'm looking at Ortofon cartridges and i don't see the need for the shell for them? there's a sale topic with one Ortofon Concorde DJ S and there's a mention of used cart and new stylus.. cart would be cartridge, right?

After someone explains what is what please advise which would be some of the best buys.. playing funk,soul and disco 45s.. taking them for gigs. Also playing Jazz.. and a lot of electronic music as well. mixing, no scratching.

Would like to order from Juno as i'm already ordering Magma bag through a friend who has DHL discount + no custom fees.

any advice much appreciated!

dont ever use stanton unless its the 680 or 681eee the rest are vinyl destroyers

go to richer sounds and buy something more gentle on your vinyl

unless your in a hall of 500 dancing feet-where the need for tracking is great (never pay your originals in these circumstances always use a boot and prove later)

ive records that you can see through due to bad stylus and inadequate turntables etc etc

the two above stanton models are not still availablle, but can be sourced on line

there are better options!

dont be DISCO about this and use a seperate stylus for L.p's as the two groove profiles differ enormously

need more info let me know on a time line here

chris

[steephill]

Slightly off topic perhaps,but which cartridge do you recommend playing those abused g+/vg- 45s making them sound good without picking up all the clicks and pops too much? And anything that will make those badly produced/pressed 45s like the Significants-I'm loving too hard sound good? Not looking for anything hi-fi sounding,just something which will make them sound louder and not do lo-fi...

[Quinvy]

Slightly off topic perhaps,but which cartridge do you recommend playing those abused g+/vg- 45s making them sound good without picking up all the clicks and pops too much? And anything that will make those badly produced/pressed 45s like the Significants-I'm loving too hard sound good? Not looking for anything hi-fi sounding,just something which will make them sound louder and not do lo-fi...

Ha ha! If only there were such a cart. As far as I'm aware, the only way to achieve your goal is to purchase one of those laser players. Trouble is they cost a fortune.

[steephill]

Realise there is no such thing as a miracle needle of course,but some has to be better than others surely?

[Psamsara]

good to see this topic alive, as i do have more questions  

 

i got myself white labels, and switching from stanton, change was enormous!  sound was so much better, and clearer, especially in high end. even VG records sounded great!   i believe i did all good with putting advised weight on it + anti skating, but i do find them EXTREMELY sensitive.  not that i had in mind using them for mixing electroinic music, hard backcueing etc.  but i sometimes have problem just cueing 7"s - with a slight touch they tend to skip. tonearm should be set right but i can't be 100% sure...  i tried different weights on it and combinations and even with the max weight it's unstable.  also - when i touch the shell when putting a needle on the record there's noise.. that "pshh pshh" noise you know what i mean -  i've been told that maybe it could be not grounded well? but i have no problems with that as it's not affecting the play, but maybe implies that something isn't right? while i'm writing this just hit me that maybe i should mention that i've pulled out that thick rubber that is going on the platter and i only have slipmat on it... was that a mistake? i know that's a usual drill for electronic music and since i did it when i got them i never paid any attention to it, but now when i think of it it's definetely taking effect on the angle from which needle touches the record, as with that rubber record would be like 1cm higher... or did i get it all wrong?

 

thanks for the advices Chris...  i understand what you mean. unfortunately i can't afford that kind of treatment for my records. at least i can have different stylus for electronic and mixing, but to have extra one for changing from LPs to 45s is no can do... + it would be a bugger to do it as i often go back & forth and play what i wanna hear at that moment, so it would take time and probably enjoyment which i get on the flow.

 

and final question - how frequently needles should be changed?

[Val (Chunky)]

The following is based on a Technics SL1200 Deck.

 

When you set up your cartridge for the first time you need to make sure that the deck is level first.

 

The stylus point needs to be in the correct position in the head shell too.

 

When you have the new cartridge fitted place it on a stationary record and check that the tone arm is parallel to it. (You can adjust the height of the tone arm via the large adjusting ring at the pivot point)

 

Take the anti skate completely off and balance the tone arm. Then add the required weight.

 

Set the anti skate to the same as the weight you previously added. The way I set my anti skate is to put a blank sided record on the deck, place the needle on it and adjust the anti skate until it tracks true on the record.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Val (Chunky)

[Val (Chunky)]

There's some useful info' here: https://www.mds975.co.uk/Content/vinyl02.html

[Quinvy]

If you are cueing records up you should turn the anti skate to "0" (off) it is also imperative that you set the level of the tone arm to the record surface. If you add or remove turntable mats you will alter the angle.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Quinvy

[Len]

 I well remember James Trouble fitting his own carts in the decks at a Lifeline allnighter. What a disaster. Every record jumped constantly, and ruined his set.

 

 ‘Bring ya own’ personal cartridges? / £15,000.00 records? - That ain’t f*ckin' ‘Northern Soul’......

 

 …….I was having a record session at my house with Gary Holyman one evening (ok, morning!) and we’re going through my shelves of records. We had a pile of about 20 picked out, which we had ‘perched’ on the corner of the shelf, when one of us (I actually can’t remember who) knocked em, and the whole pile fell to the floor after doing a summersault (like a ‘Stunt record’), they ‘crashed’ to the ground completely flat, landing on all four corners (like a Cat)……..

 

 …...At almost that exact moment, Nina (The wife) popped her head round the door - Gary and I must have looked like a couple of naughty kids because she recognised ‘something was a foot’ straight away….”Do any of you two want another cup of Tea? What the hell’s up with you too?”…….We looked at each other; I turned to Nina, then looked at the pile of records on the floor, and just said…..”Nothing to see here Dear, tea would be lovely thanks”……and off she went (after rolling her eyes at us)…Gary and I ‘pushed’ on, I then said……"Gary, where’s ‘so and so’ record gone?”……Gary’s ‘deadpan’ reply just killed me, he looks at me in all seriousness, points to the floor at this pile of records that had crashed to the ground, and says….”It’s down there with that lot”......and with ‘not a peep’, we left them on the floor and carried on looking through the shelves….It was priceless...My point being -THAT IS F*CKIN' ‘NORTHERN SOUL!’…….  

 

 …….To me anyway  

 

All the best,

 

Len  

 

P.s - I just despair when people are ‘oh so precious’ that’s all, some of my records ain’t even got sleeves!  

Edited September 3, 2013 by LEN

[Cover-up]

 ‘Bring ya own’ personal cartridges? / £15,000.00 records? - That ain’t f*ckin' ‘Northern Soul’......

 

Oh well, I guess I just aren't very northern soul, then... Since when was wrecking your prized possessions while out deejaying with a couple of rusty old nails, which just happened to be on the decks at the time, considered to be 'Northern Soul'??!! I played at a mod do one night which had one of those vintage twin deck things. Every styrene single I played got the worst cue burn I've ever heard. Spending £100 on a pair of carts sounds VERY northern soul to me.

The other thing I don't understand is playing carvers of CD tracks with the "most venues don't have CD players" argument. A carver costs £15 - a CD Walkman costs £15. Just buy a CD player instead and play the ORIGINAL not a pretend single!!!

[Len]

Oh well, I guess I just aren't very northern soul, then... Since when was wrecking your prized possessions while out deejaying with a couple of rusty old nails, which just happened to be on the decks at the time, considered to be 'Northern Soul'??!! I played at a mod do one night which had one of those vintage twin deck things. Every styrene single I played got the worst cue burn I've ever heard. Spending £100 on a pair of carts sounds VERY northern soul to me.

The other thing I don't understand is playing carvers of CD tracks with the "most venues don't have CD players" argument. A carver costs £15 - a CD Walkman costs £15. Just buy a CD player instead and play the ORIGINAL not a pretend single!!!

 

He he, I knew I shouldn't have said all that - Just 'keepin' it real' in my own little way   You are correct of course (these things do cost us a lot of money), but honestly my records have been chucked all over the show, and they're fine - Records are pretty robust......I suppose I was metaphorically speaking - gawd knows, I confuse myself sometimes.

 

I know what you mean ref C.D's when the original release, and I don't see a problem playing the track out off the said C.D. Personally I would prefer the carver simply because I would find it easier to D.J with, because I've never D.Jed with C.D's - Just practical on my part - Nowt wrong with either.

 

Thanks for you reply - It could have been worse!  

 

All the best,

 

Len  

 

P.s - Don't put yourself down - I'm sure you are nearly as 'Northern Soul' as me    

Edited September 3, 2013 by LEN

[Greg Belson]

I've decided to sell my Shure white label shells as the carts/needles are just too fragile for my liking....I tried out one last set just recently and one needle bent in half during my set, rendering it useless. Maybe I've had a bad run with my last few needles, but I'm no turntablist and I do treat my records with care and attention.

 

If anyone is interested in buying these, (2 x shells only with cases, brush & screwdriver in great condition), then please drop me a line and we'll work out a price.

 

Personally, I've converted to using Technics shells with M44-7 cartridges and they've been a revelation.....can't recommend them enough.

[Len]

If you are cueing records up you should turn the anti skate to "0" (off) it is also imperative that you set the level of the tone arm to the record surface. If you add or remove turntable mats you will alter the angle.

 

...Contradicting myself even more now - That is one thing I do worry about, I always turn the deck backwards when cueing, and I should check that.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

[Len]

Thinking about it, I've always presumed that whoever is running an event is 'obviously' doing it properly, and providing the correct equipment. It simply has never crossed my mind that promoters wouldn't do this - Times have changed I suppose.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

[Psamsara]

There's some useful info' here: https://www.mds975.co.uk/Content/vinyl02.html

 

great source of information Val.  thanks a lot!

took me a while to go through this...  i don't have these tools to measure all this 

[Aret]

Apologies if this has been covered already.

Since Shure stopped manufacturing stylus for vinyl enthusiasts / Collectors / DJ's,  What's a good replacement?. I hear the Japanese replacements (the glow in the dark ones) for M44-7 are not that great. I'm all ears. Thanks

Aret

[Guest Shufflin]

DJ City (Mojax guy) loves the new Ortofon Concorde Digital ones for spinning his vinyl 45's, so I got a pair of them for mixing with on SL1210's (not DJ'ing out), dialled the tracking force back a bit, they sound great (high output, so high mixer gain not needed, plus low vinyl wear). The Club version are a bit more expensive and elliptical and I wouldn't use them on rare records.

If Concorde aren't your thing this may help:

 

 

[Cover-up]

On 26/02/2020 at 13:16, Aret said:

Apologies if this has been covered already.

Since Shure stopped manufacturing stylus for vinyl enthusiasts / Collectors / DJ's,  What's a good replacement?. I hear the Japanese replacements (the glow in the dark ones) for M44-7 are not that great. I'm all ears. Thanks

Aret

A Japanese company called Jico has recently announced a replacement for the Shure WhiteLabel - you could previously get them from a (Dutch?) company called Tonar (they sounded pretty good, but mine seemed to deteriorate pretty quickly...).

You need to order direct from Japan and you'll get hit with import tax.

www.jico-stylus.com/product-category/shure/