Dave Godin Guilty?

[Mark Bicknell]

Nail - head - hit

For me the term Northern Soul, means so much more than just the music. I dont mean 'just the music' in a derogatory way.

Northern Soul encompasses the whole concept of the scene. The camaradrie that spills out into our whole life away from clubs and record bars. The type of person even willing to endure some of the lengths we go to, to enjoy our music. The collecting Gene. The dancing Gene.

It is a suitably generic all encompassing term that doesnt narrow the concept of a scene that plays a varied style of music. (Some not remotely soul).

It was perfect for when the majority of the clubs were in the north, but timeless enough to carry 30+ years of recognition by people who dont really know anything about our music. Apart from hazy memories of schoolmates in youth clubs leaping around dancefloors to records these people didn't know, and they probably brought along themselves and badgered the DJ to play.

It says to me, meeting people in motorway services and spotting that person you have known for 20 years, and cant ask their name, because after all this time you probably had been told it once, but cant remember what the hell it was. But still greet like a long lost brother or sister.

It says talking with people where noone cares if you are a millionare, or on the dole. A school teacher or a Lorry driver or a famous singer, an actor off the TV. You are just a Northern Soul fan, and that is generally all you need to make a friend.

It says, add alcohol/drugs whatever, and still people know how to interact in the cordial way, that seems impossible in many other scenarios for the public at large.

It says sweaty clubs, empty clubs, nice venues and dives. It says here is part of my life I have never regretted.

It says every time I drive through Yate, or pass Stafford on a train, or visit aunties and cousins in Leicester, I have to go a certain way that takes me past the old venue, or crane my neck and try to glimpse the old place as the train trundles to a halt at Stafford station. It says whenever I walk down Oxford Street I HAVE to peer through the doorway. I dont know why, but it has to be done.

It says when Soft Cell or Yazz come on the radio I feel the urge to change station. but in a knowing, almost pitious way. Not quite contemptuous. Not quite.

It says mates still think I am mental 30 years later, and dismiss my bleary eyed stop off for a pint on Sunday lunch time, on my way home to bed.

It says Matt and Conway and Vince and Bob and Hippo, and a thousand others I still see regularly at Soul nights. It says Mike and Bernadette and Kevin and Andy who I see about town, but who dont go any more. It says Paul who we lost in a car accident, but think about almost everyday, and not just at Easter.

If it was just Soul, jeez no-one would have given our music more than a second thought. It sets us and our music out as different, and the term is probably IMO, more important than Wigan and Stafford, the Torch, 100 club etc etc all added up and put together.

And it even means Poo Pan is something to be sought after. How many people can say the same!!??

Mikey

(Can anyone tell I havent had internet access for a few weeks? )

Spot on........one of the best replies i've ever read on this site sums it up perfectly...brilliant.

Mark Bicknell

[Winnie :-)]

Nail - head - hit

For me the term Northern Soul, means so much more than just the music. I dont mean 'just the music' in a derogatory way.

Northern Soul encompasses the whole concept of the scene. The camaradrie that spills out into our whole life away from clubs and record bars. The type of person even willing to endure some of the lengths we go to, to enjoy our music. The collecting Gene. The dancing Gene.

It is a suitably generic all encompassing term that doesnt narrow the concept of a scene that plays a varied style of music. (Some not remotely soul).

It was perfect for when the majority of the clubs were in the north, but timeless enough to carry 30+ years of recognition by people who dont really know anything about our music. Apart from hazy memories of schoolmates in youth clubs leaping around dancefloors to records these people didn't know, and they probably brought along themselves and badgered the DJ to play.

It says to me, meeting people in motorway services and spotting that person you have known for 20 years, and cant ask their name, because after all this time you probably had been told it once, but cant remember what the hell it was. But still greet like a long lost brother or sister.

It says talking with people where noone cares if you are a millionare, or on the dole. A school teacher or a Lorry driver or a famous singer, an actor off the TV. You are just a Northern Soul fan, and that is generally all you need to make a friend.

It says, add alcohol/drugs whatever, and still people know how to interact in the cordial way, that seems impossible in many other scenarios for the public at large.

It says sweaty clubs, empty clubs, nice venues and dives. It says here is part of my life I have never regretted.

It says every time I drive through Yate, or pass Stafford on a train, or visit aunties and cousins in Leicester, I have to go a certain way that takes me past the old venue, or crane my neck and try to glimpse the old place as the train trundles to a halt at Stafford station. It says whenever I walk down Oxford Street I HAVE to peer through the doorway. I dont know why, but it has to be done.

It says when Soft Cell or Yazz come on the radio I feel the urge to change station. but in a knowing, almost pitious way. Not quite contemptuous. Not quite.

It says mates still think I am mental 30 years later, and dismiss my bleary eyed stop off for a pint on Sunday lunch time, on my way home to bed.

It says Matt and Conway and Vince and Bob and Hippo, and a thousand others I still see regularly at Soul nights. It says Mike and Bernadette and Kevin and Andy who I see about town, but who dont go any more. It says Paul who we lost in a car accident, but think about almost everyday, and not just at Easter.

If it was just Soul, jeez no-one would have given our music more than a second thought. It sets us and our music out as different, and the term is probably IMO, more important than Wigan and Stafford, the Torch, 100 club etc etc all added up and put together.

And it even means Poo Pan is something to be sought after. How many people can say the same!!??

Mikey

(Can anyone tell I havent had internet access for a few weeks? )

================

What a great post, rare you can actually feel passion through the written word, Mikey you've achieved it mate.

Winnie:-)

[Ady Croasdell]

I can assure you that Dave Godin never rubbed off on me!! I was quite aware of Nietzsche's work long before Mr. Godin appeared and could only marvel at how he found the time to write all those incomprehensible books whilst working with Phil Spector.

I no longer have his articles. All I remember are some pictures of punters outside the Wheel, a roll-call of attendees and the bloody Ad-Libs.

Does this spat mean that any chances of free weekend passes to your excellent promotions are now receding into the far distance?

ROD

I don't think it's a spat, I can't work out what you're talking about now. If you were aware of Nietzsche I'd have thought you'd have got something out of dave's words. I and a lot of others did and we only knew Jack Nitzche. And where does Phil Spector come into it? the reference to free weekend passes is equally oblique and nonsensicle (if that's a word).

[Guest Paul]

PERSPECTIVE is very important here.

I considered Dave Godin to be a friend; we had many things in common (other than a fascination for soul music) and I will always remember how he seemed to be so full of wisdom - especially when I was just a teenager in the mid 1970s. But let's not forget that Dave was quite a bit older than most of us (he was 21 years older than me, for example) and therefore he had experienced (and read about and thought about) so many things when we were still buying records with our school lunch money!

When I was a naive 15-year-old living in the north east, Dave was a 36-year-old man of knowledge and experience - and he was in cosmopolitan London which is where "things really happened".

When I became a little older and had experienced some real lessons in life for myself, I realised that we all become wise and we begin to see things in different ways. All of a sudden, we are in a position to give valuable advice to others - especially our younger friends who are just starting out.

So I'm afraid I don't think of Dave Godin as a saint or a pioneer but I deeply admired his musical taste, his general radicalism (he was a bit of a rebel at heart) and his bravery. He was always very candid which takes a lot of courage.

I didn't always agree with him every time, but he didn't expect everyone to agree with him every time. He respected that different people can have different opinions and neither has to be "right" or "wrong" ...just different, and that's what makes us all so interesting. Life would be so boring if everyone was gay, for example, or if everyone liked the same music or whatever.

I know some people have considered Dave to be a little too idealistic at times (sadly, we can't all afford to be idealists if we have mouths to feed etc) and perhaps even a little elitist at times (thankfully, not very often) but none of us are "right" or "wrong" all the time - including Dave Godin. But he was always valid, and that's what really counts.

The best advice he ever gave me was to experience things in life instead of "watching from the sidelines". And as life is so precious, and sometimes very short, I'd like to share that advice with everyone else: Go out and do something so you can experience how it feels. And if you enjoy it, do it again!

Paul Mooney

www.millbrand.com

Edited April 11, 2006 by Paul

[Guest mel brat]

In an idle moment at work the other night it occured to me that Dave Godin really didn,t do the soul scene any favours when he coined the phrase " Northern soul ".Was this the start of the factionalisation /tribalism so prevalent today.Surely soul is soul whatever the sub-genre you wish to file it under ?

To be fair, Dave actually proposed dropping the tag "Northern Soul" C.1975/76 I remember, by which time the whole shebang had gone completely over the top (for which I blame Wigan Casino ENTIRELY). Dave Godin could hardly have forseen this turn of events in 1970/71, when the music being played up north was still without a permanent tag (other than "rare soul") Old school "leftie" that he was, he simply HAD to champion the underdog, and we should remember that he was the only soul journalist doing so at a time of universal hostility to the fledgling movement in the Soul press - besides, the term "Northern Soul" is still the best anyone's come up with so far, isn't it? "Per-son-ally", I'm just a Soul fan.

PS. Those that "slag-off" 70's soul et.al. should have learned better by now. This discussion began before you ever came onto the scene and serves no useful purpose - and learn some new dance moves, for Christ sake!

[Ady Croasdell]

Mel, I don't think it was "rare" soul then, that seems to have come in in the past twenty years. In the late 60s it was known as "old soul" which I think was the name of Jeff King's first bootleg label.

[Pete S]

Mel, I don't think it was "rare" soul then, that seems to have come in in the past twenty years. In the late 60s it was known as "old soul" which I think was the name of Jeff King's first bootleg label.

[Guest in town Mikey]

Somebody played that at the Saracens before Xmas. I hadnt heard it for a lifetime and it sounded GREAT

[BrianB]

I've always believed that Dave's coining of the phrase had little or nothing to do with the music but was a geographic reference to the scene only i.e. "the Soul Clubs in the North". It was an appropriate enough reference at the time, but he spent many decades afterwards trying to disassociate himself from the phrase in the way that it had been contorted and often said that the 'scene' needed to ditch the description as a classification of the music itself. It was the 'scene' that 'took up' and adopted the term and I can assure you that he would have said a big Amen to your comment that "Soul Is Soul whatever sub-genre you file it under".

Let's remember that, whether you're from the North or the South of the country, Dave's contribution to the growth, acceptance and appreciation of real Soul Music in Britain is unparalleled. Those of us whose lives were enriched by his reviews and recommendations (of any tempo or sub-genre) will be forever in his debt.

Sean Hampsey

Sean,

I believe Dave's coining of the phrase had everything to do with the music. The southern clubs, the Chris Hills etc, at that time were churning out soul records that we in the north just could not listen to, could not equate to them, and we had just 1 page in B&S, 2 later on, to read about the music that ruled our lives.

The southern soul scene was for people to socialise, not to satisfy their addiction and craving for the music. Dave recognised the difference, and to me this thread has made me realise just how forward thinking the guy was.

To read him eulogizing over Please Let Me In, Love Love Love, Allen Toussaint, the Ad-Libs et al, was to be immersed in words you wish you had written yourselves, but you knew inwardly you could not and never would be able to write like that. But miraculously, you read his comments and listened to the record and it sounded even better!

I think he knew what he was saying, and it has given our scene an identity that has entered mainstream life and even received belated media recognition and critical acclaim.

Thanks,

Brian

[Sean Hampsey]

Thanks Brian but I beg to differ, if only very slightly.

Dave's article in an issue of Blues & Soul in 1971, called 'The Soul Of The North' was about his first visit to the Twisted Wheel in Manchester. His observations were primarily about the 'scene' in the North (this was part of my original point) but yes, you're right, he was obviously struck by the difference in the type of Soul Music played in the North, differences that we are all well aware of.

The main point I was trying to make (obviously not well enough) was that Dave had tried to shake of the handle for some years after, as also mentioned by Mel Bratt above. Dave (like many of us) was first and foremost a Soul lover.

It's a question of interpretation I guess, pretty much like our own posts on the subject.

Many thanks

Sean

Edited April 11, 2006 by Sean Hampsey

[Modernsoulsucks]

The thing is Ady that I didn't want to enter into an argument about the relative merits of Dave's contribution to soul music in the UK. We are all well aware of the pioneering work he did with the Tamla Motown Appreciation Society and his Soul City label. I was merely questioning his involvement with the Northern Scene and the impact his B&S articles had on me at the time.

In my own clumsy way I was attempting to forestall any disagreement by mixing Nietzsche with Jack Nitzche's work as arranger with Phil Spector to add a little levity. Obviously the £24.99 I spent on the hardback edition of " The Use of Humour to Relieve Political and Social Stress" by Stan Boardman was money down the drain.

By even referring to Nietzsche I was trying to make the point that at the time his columns came across as rather Reithian in attitude with erudition for the sake of it rather than to explain and inform. We did have schools up here in the North, albeit attached to t'local cotton mill where we were taught basics of reading,rithmetic, and Media Studies so we were quite capable of independent thinking.

By the time I remember reading those columns the scene here had already developed beyond a predominantly Motown base and was fully fledged. Dave didn't put us on the map, he merely pointed out where we were for those who might be interested.

Reading back through the thread I think Dundee Davie and Consdad have both overestimated the contribution Dave Godin made to the scene. If we are handing out plaudits to to our continuing involvement and the scene's longevity then IMO look no further than John Anderson.

The term "Northern Soul" is a classic invention but let's not confuse the term with the actual scene. As Sean said earlier I thought it was merely a geographical reference to where it was mainly taking place. In Town Mikey's evocative piece could still be written if Dave had not coined that phrase and we all have contributed to those memories. Dave was a sometime peripheral observer.

Im no way denigrating Dave the guy as I never met him. I like animals. Some of them are very tasty. Im interested in film and as a part-time screen writer I did contribute the line "Im feeling very wet" to "Singing in the Rain". By coincidence they used my exact same line in "Debbie does Dallas" but in an entirely different context.

ROD

[Drew3]

Nail - head - hit

For me the term Northern Soul, means so much more than just the music. I dont mean 'just the music' in a derogatory way.

Northern Soul encompasses the whole concept of the scene. The camaradrie that spills out into our whole life away from clubs and record bars. The type of person even willing to endure some of the lengths we go to, to enjoy our music. The collecting Gene. The dancing Gene.

It is a suitably generic all encompassing term that doesnt narrow the concept of a scene that plays a varied style of music. (Some not remotely soul).

It was perfect for when the majority of the clubs were in the north, but timeless enough to carry 30+ years of recognition by people who dont really know anything about our music. Apart from hazy memories of schoolmates in youth clubs leaping around dancefloors to records these people didn't know, and they probably brought along themselves and badgered the DJ to play.

It says to me, meeting people in motorway services and spotting that person you have known for 20 years, and cant ask their name, because after all this time you probably had been told it once, but cant remember what the hell it was. But still greet like a long lost brother or sister.

It says talking with people where noone cares if you are a millionare, or on the dole. A school teacher or a Lorry driver or a famous singer, an actor off the TV. You are just a Northern Soul fan, and that is generally all you need to make a friend.

It says, add alcohol/drugs whatever, and still people know how to interact in the cordial way, that seems impossible in many other scenarios for the public at large.

It says sweaty clubs, empty clubs, nice venues and dives. It says here is part of my life I have never regretted.

It says every time I drive through Yate, or pass Stafford on a train, or visit aunties and cousins in Leicester, I have to go a certain way that takes me past the old venue, or crane my neck and try to glimpse the old place as the train trundles to a halt at Stafford station. It says whenever I walk down Oxford Street I HAVE to peer through the doorway. I dont know why, but it has to be done.

It says when Soft Cell or Yazz come on the radio I feel the urge to change station. but in a knowing, almost pitious way. Not quite contemptuous. Not quite.

It says mates still think I am mental 30 years later, and dismiss my bleary eyed stop off for a pint on Sunday lunch time, on my way home to bed.

It says Matt and Conway and Vince and Bob and Hippo, and a thousand others I still see regularly at Soul nights. It says Mike and Bernadette and Kevin and Andy who I see about town, but who dont go any more. It says Paul who we lost in a car accident, but think about almost everyday, and not just at Easter.

If it was just Soul, jeez no-one would have given our music more than a second thought. It sets us and our music out as different, and the term is probably IMO, more important than Wigan and Stafford, the Torch, 100 club etc etc all added up and put together.

And it even means Poo Pan is something to be sought after. How many people can say the same!!??

Mikey

(Can anyone tell I havent had internet access for a few weeks? )

This is the best thing said throughout this whole debate, certainly the only post that meant anything to me.

Brilliant.

PS

Sorry for being dim but what is Poo Pan? Is it a label?

KTF.

Drew.

[Ady Croasdell]

The thing is Ady that I didn't want to enter into an argument about the relative merits of Dave's contribution to soul music in the UK. We are all well aware of the pioneering work he did with the Tamla Motown Appreciation Society and his Soul City label. I was merely questioning his involvement with the Northern Scene and the impact his B&S articles had on me at the time.

In my own clumsy way I was attempting to forestall any disagreement by mixing Nietzsche with Jack Nitzche's work as arranger with Phil Spector to add a little levity. Obviously the £24.99 I spent on the hardback edition of " The Use of Humour to Relieve Political and Social Stress" by Stan Boardman was money down the drain.

By even referring to Nietzsche I was trying to make the point that at the time his columns came across as rather Reithian in attitude with erudition for the sake of it rather than to explain and inform. We did have schools up here in the North, albeit attached to t'local cotton mill where we were taught basics of reading,rithmetic, and Media Studies so we were quite capable of independent thinking.

By the time I remember reading those columns the scene here had already developed beyond a predominantly Motown base and was fully fledged. Dave didn't put us on the map, he merely pointed out where we were for those who might be interested.

Reading back through the thread I think Dundee Davie and Consdad have both overestimated the contribution Dave Godin made to the scene. If we are handing out plaudits to to our continuing involvement and the scene's longevity then IMO look no further than John Anderson.

The term "Northern Soul" is a classic invention but let's not confuse the term with the actual scene. As Sean said earlier I thought it was merely a geographical reference to where it was mainly taking place. In Town Mikey's evocative piece could still be written if Dave had not coined that phrase and we all have contributed to those memories. Dave was a sometime peripheral observer.

Im no way denigrating Dave the guy as I never met him. I like animals. Some of them are very tasty. Im interested in film and as a part-time screen writer I did contribute the line "Im feeling very wet" to "Singing in the Rain". By coincidence they used my exact same line in "Debbie does Dallas" but in an entirely different context.

ROD

Sorry Phil Spector was one lateral thinking step too many for my brain.

Well we'll agree to differ but I don't think John Anderson's a very good example. He's a smashing bloke but he doesn't think that much of Northern musically and is famous for being great at finding records rather than being a soul music critic or even connoisseur. I think Deep and UK covers are more his collecting bag.

When Northern was establishing itself, Dave's columns were a huge inspiration and encouragement to thousands of young soul fans and its debatable if the scene would have grown so rapidly and healthily without his involvement. Obviously he didn't inspire you, but I would have thought you'd have noticed his influence. Don't forget DJs weren't icons then (thank God) and it was good to have someone with knowledge\and experience (and possibly most importantly, some ideals) to look up to.

[jocko]

Nail - head - hit

For me the term Northern Soul, means so much more than just the music. I dont mean 'just the music' in a derogatory way.

Northern Soul encompasses the whole concept of the scene. The camaradrie that spills out into our whole life away from clubs and record bars. The type of person even willing to endure some of the lengths we go to, to enjoy our music. The collecting Gene. The dancing Gene.

It is a suitably generic all encompassing term that doesnt narrow the concept of a scene that plays a varied style of music. (Some not remotely soul).

It was perfect for when the majority of the clubs were in the north, but timeless enough to carry 30+ years of recognition by people who dont really know anything about our music. Apart from hazy memories of schoolmates in youth clubs leaping around dancefloors to records these people didn't know, and they probably brought along themselves and badgered the DJ to play.

It says to me, meeting people in motorway services and spotting that person you have known for 20 years, and cant ask their name, because after all this time you probably had been told it once, but cant remember what the hell it was. But still greet like a long lost brother or sister.

It says talking with people where noone cares if you are a millionare, or on the dole. A school teacher or a Lorry driver or a famous singer, an actor off the TV. You are just a Northern Soul fan, and that is generally all you need to make a friend.

It says, add alcohol/drugs whatever, and still people know how to interact in the cordial way, that seems impossible in many other scenarios for the public at large.

It says sweaty clubs, empty clubs, nice venues and dives. It says here is part of my life I have never regretted.

It says every time I drive through Yate, or pass Stafford on a train, or visit aunties and cousins in Leicester, I have to go a certain way that takes me past the old venue, or crane my neck and try to glimpse the old place as the train trundles to a halt at Stafford station. It says whenever I walk down Oxford Street I HAVE to peer through the doorway. I dont know why, but it has to be done.

It says when Soft Cell or Yazz come on the radio I feel the urge to change station. but in a knowing, almost pitious way. Not quite contemptuous. Not quite.

It says mates still think I am mental 30 years later, and dismiss my bleary eyed stop off for a pint on Sunday lunch time, on my way home to bed.

It says Matt and Conway and Vince and Bob and Hippo, and a thousand others I still see regularly at Soul nights. It says Mike and Bernadette and Kevin and Andy who I see about town, but who dont go any more. It says Paul who we lost in a car accident, but think about almost everyday, and not just at Easter.

If it was just Soul, jeez no-one would have given our music more than a second thought. It sets us and our music out as different, and the term is probably IMO, more important than Wigan and Stafford, the Torch, 100 club etc etc all added up and put together.

And it even means Poo Pan is something to be sought after. How many people can say the same!!??

Mikey

(Can anyone tell I havent had internet access for a few weeks? )

Okay this is now my favorite post on here!

Eloquent but emotional words, just like some of the greatest soul songs!!

Cheers

Jock

Edited April 11, 2006 by jocko

[Guest in town Mikey]

Thanks for all the great comments guys. I think I got all over emotional at having internet again. It was a kind of Sunny D ASBO sugar rush for grown ups. Glad it made sense as my fingers cannot keep up with my thoughts 99% of the time.

Drew, yep PooPan is a record label. BTW Are you the 100 club Drew lady person?

Edited April 12, 2006 by in town Mikey

[Guest]

Thanks for all the great comments guys. I think I got all over emotional at having internet again. It was a kind of Sunny D ASBO sugar rush for grown ups. Glad it made sense as my fingers cannot keep up with my thoughts 99% of the time.

Drew, yep PooPan is a record label. BTW Are you the 100 club Drew lady person?

Mikey it really is a fantastic post and sums up what most of us feel I would imagine, I loved reading it

[Dennisoul]

Nail - head - hit

For me the term Northern Soul, means so much more than just the music. I dont mean 'just the music' in a derogatory way.

Northern Soul encompasses the whole concept of the scene. The camaradrie that spills out into our whole life away from clubs and record bars. The type of person even willing to endure some of the lengths we go to, to enjoy our music. The collecting Gene. The dancing Gene.

It is a suitably generic all encompassing term that doesnt narrow the concept of a scene that plays a varied style of music. (Some not remotely soul).

It was perfect for when the majority of the clubs were in the north, but timeless enough to carry 30+ years of recognition by people who dont really know anything about our music. Apart from hazy memories of schoolmates in youth clubs leaping around dancefloors to records these people didn't know, and they probably brought along themselves and badgered the DJ to play.

It says to me, meeting people in motorway services and spotting that person you have known for 20 years, and cant ask their name, because after all this time you probably had been told it once, but cant remember what the hell it was. But still greet like a long lost brother or sister.

It says talking with people where noone cares if you are a millionare, or on the dole. A school teacher or a Lorry driver or a famous singer, an actor off the TV. You are just a Northern Soul fan, and that is generally all you need to make a friend.

It says, add alcohol/drugs whatever, and still people know how to interact in the cordial way, that seems impossible in many other scenarios for the public at large.

It says sweaty clubs, empty clubs, nice venues and dives. It says here is part of my life I have never regretted.

It says every time I drive through Yate, or pass Stafford on a train, or visit aunties and cousins in Leicester, I have to go a certain way that takes me past the old venue, or crane my neck and try to glimpse the old place as the train trundles to a halt at Stafford station. It says whenever I walk down Oxford Street I HAVE to peer through the doorway. I dont know why, but it has to be done.

It says when Soft Cell or Yazz come on the radio I feel the urge to change station. but in a knowing, almost pitious way. Not quite contemptuous. Not quite.

It says mates still think I am mental 30 years later, and dismiss my bleary eyed stop off for a pint on Sunday lunch time, on my way home to bed.

It says Matt and Conway and Vince and Bob and Hippo, and a thousand others I still see regularly at Soul nights. It says Mike and Bernadette and Kevin and Andy who I see about town, but who dont go any more. It says Paul who we lost in a car accident, but think about almost everyday, and not just at Easter.

If it was just Soul, jeez no-one would have given our music more than a second thought. It sets us and our music out as different, and the term is probably IMO, more important than Wigan and Stafford, the Torch, 100 club etc etc all added up and put together.

And it even means Poo Pan is something to be sought after. How many people can say the same!!??

Mikey

(Can anyone tell I havent had internet access for a few weeks? )

I`m gonna print this off ,frame it,and hang it above the record deck in my house,as a reminder of what it`s really all about,beautifully put Mikey.

[Guest]

Along with Birmingham bags

Steve

Something else the bloody North nicked !!! Added a couple of inches & re-packedged them as Spencers !!!!

[Guest]

Nail - head - hit

For me the term Northern Soul, means so much more than just the music. I dont mean 'just the music' in a derogatory way.

Northern Soul encompasses the whole concept of the scene. The camaradrie that spills out into our whole life away from clubs and record bars. The type of person even willing to endure some of the lengths we go to, to enjoy our music. The collecting Gene. The dancing Gene.

It is a suitably generic all encompassing term that doesnt narrow the concept of a scene that plays a varied style of music. (Some not remotely soul).

It was perfect for when the majority of the clubs were in the north, but timeless enough to carry 30+ years of recognition by people who dont really know anything about our music. Apart from hazy memories of schoolmates in youth clubs leaping around dancefloors to records these people didn't know, and they probably brought along themselves and badgered the DJ to play.

It says to me, meeting people in motorway services and spotting that person you have known for 20 years, and cant ask their name, because after all this time you probably had been told it once, but cant remember what the hell it was. But still greet like a long lost brother or sister.

It says talking with people where noone cares if you are a millionare, or on the dole. A school teacher or a Lorry driver or a famous singer, an actor off the TV. You are just a Northern Soul fan, and that is generally all you need to make a friend.

It says, add alcohol/drugs whatever, and still people know how to interact in the cordial way, that seems impossible in many other scenarios for the public at large.

It says sweaty clubs, empty clubs, nice venues and dives. It says here is part of my life I have never regretted.

It says every time I drive through Yate, or pass Stafford on a train, or visit aunties and cousins in Leicester, I have to go a certain way that takes me past the old venue, or crane my neck and try to glimpse the old place as the train trundles to a halt at Stafford station. It says whenever I walk down Oxford Street I HAVE to peer through the doorway. I dont know why, but it has to be done.

It says when Soft Cell or Yazz come on the radio I feel the urge to change station. but in a knowing, almost pitious way. Not quite contemptuous. Not quite.

It says mates still think I am mental 30 years later, and dismiss my bleary eyed stop off for a pint on Sunday lunch time, on my way home to bed.

It says Matt and Conway and Vince and Bob and Hippo, and a thousand others I still see regularly at Soul nights. It says Mike and Bernadette and Kevin and Andy who I see about town, but who dont go any more. It says Paul who we lost in a car accident, but think about almost everyday, and not just at Easter.

If it was just Soul, jeez no-one would have given our music more than a second thought. It sets us and our music out as different, and the term is probably IMO, more important than Wigan and Stafford, the Torch, 100 club etc etc all added up and put together.

And it even means Poo Pan is something to be sought after. How many people can say the same!!??

Mikey

(Can anyone tell I havent had internet access for a few weeks? )

Sick - Bucket - Pass

Would have still been the same even if it was called "Our Soul" !!

Edited April 13, 2006 by B-side-B

[Guest]

By the way, who is this 'Jack Nitzche' ?? was he the bloke in 'Nightmare before Christmas' ?

[Pete S]

By the way, who is this 'Jack Nitzche' ?? was he the bloke in 'Nightmare before Christmas' ?

No that was Jack Skellington.

What a great film that is.

Got it on dvd but have never been able to watch it as it reminds me of my daughter so much - not that she looks like one of the characters, we used to watch it together all the time. In fact I doubt if I'll ever be able to watch that, or Thomas The tank Engine ever again

[Guest]

it would have died among so many silly accents .... i still think him giving it a tag gave it the 30 year longevity that it would not have had without it ...

Davie

I missed that one Davie Bloody hell ! even 'Birmingham Urdhu' is more comprehansable than 'Jockweagen'

[Guest]

No that was Jack Skellington.

What a great film that is.

Got it on dvd but have never been able to watch it as it reminds me of my daughter so much - not that she looks like one of the characters, we used to watch it together all the time. In fact I doubt if I'll ever be able to watch that, or Thomas The tank Engine ever again

I thought it was brill too Pete.

Really sorry if i have caused any heartache

[Pete S]

I thought it was brill too Pete.

Really sorry if i have caused any heartache

No mate, it's just things set it off, must happen to loads of people, you hear a song or see something and it reminds you of something else.

Tell you what, was in the Co-op in Sedgley today getting some dog food and they had this display of like bog-standard mens products like Lynx and Old Spice, and I saw a bottle of Brut, so I thought, shall I have a sniff. So I opened the top and had a quick sniff of this Brut and no word of a lie, it transported me right back to 1972-73. At that time Brut really was the bees knees and it was expensive as well - 50p for a tiny bottle - and we used to go to Wolverhampton baths on a saturday morning then go into beatties afterwards just to get a spray from the Brut tester bottle. This went on for months until one day when someone - Dave Webb actually - sprayed me in the eye with brut and I staggered into the display, knocking everything flying, and had to be taken to the eye hospital!

So I guess for most people, the smell of Brut reminds them of opening the double doors to the main room at Wigan, but that was brut mixed with sweat so it doesn't really count as the pure Brut experience. Splash it on all over.

[Billy Freemantle]

I saw a bottle of Brut, so I thought, shall I have a sniff. So I opened the top and had a quick sniff of this Brut and no word of a lie, it transported me right back to 1972-73. At that time Brut really was the bees knees and it was expensive as well - 50p for a tiny bottle

Didn't they dumb down the formula though once it moved from tiny expensive bottles that needed just a dab ( and smelt especially great on the girls) to big bottles that Barry Sheen and Henry Cooper spashed on all over?

[Guest]

No mate, it's just things set it off, must happen to loads of people, you hear a song or see something and it reminds you of something else.

Tell you what, was in the Co-op in Sedgley today getting some dog food and they had this display of like bog-standard mens products like Lynx and Old Spice, and I saw a bottle of Brut, so I thought, shall I have a sniff. So I opened the top and had a quick sniff of this Brut and no word of a lie, it transported me right back to 1972-73. At that time Brut really was the bees knees and it was expensive as well - 50p for a tiny bottle - and we used to go to Wolverhampton baths on a saturday morning then go into beatties afterwards just to get a spray from the Brut tester bottle. This went on for months until one day when someone - Dave Webb actually - sprayed me in the eye with brut and I staggered into the display, knocking everything flying, and had to be taken to the eye hospital!

So I guess for most people, the smell of Brut reminds them of opening the double doors to the main room at Wigan, but that was brut mixed with sweat so it doesn't really count as the pure Brut experience. Splash it on all over.

Brilliant. I thought they had stopped making it after Gazza totally ruined it's credibillity. God i would love to smell it again ! Must have used gallons of the stuff !

I reckon the reason we all used it was not just because of the smell & Our Henry etc, i reckon it was because it was the only aftershave that came in a plastic bottle & so would not get smashed in the bag .

[Pete S]

Didn't they dumb down the formula though once it moved from tiny expensive bottles that needed just a dab ( and smelt especially great on the girls) to big bottles that Barry Sheen and Henry Cooper spashed on all over?

Yeah I reckon you're right because it really was expensive back then. I remember this girl I was going out with when I was 14, she bought me some after shave (like I'd started shaving!) and it was Old Spice, I was gutted.

Actually this is in the wrong topic because this is about dave Godin, a man who obviously had no use for aftershave going by his photo in B & S, but back in the 90's when I lived in Hastings, there was this dotty old couple underneath my flat, their flat always stunk of cooked sprouts for some reason...anyway one Xmas she gave me a bottle of after shave and I swear she must have had it for 20 years because it was HAI KARATE. And you know what, it smelt gorgeous!!

[Guest]

Hey Pete i reckon you have hit on a great business idea there , mix Brut with Sweat & sell it.

Jean Paul Gaultier - "Wigan"

Edited April 12, 2006 by B-side-B

[Pete S]

Hey Pete i reckon you have hit on a great business idea there , mix Brut with Sweat & sell it.

Jean Paul Gaultier - "Wigan"

[Billy Freemantle]

...anyway one Xmas she gave me a bottle of after shave and I swear she must have had it for 20 years because it was HAI KARATE. And you know what, it smelt gorgeous!!

Hai Karate came out in about 1970. It was made by Unicliffe and it smelt very much like the small bottle Brut. There was a comedy advert that involved some skinny guy in swimming trunks fending off gorgeous babes using karate chops. Nobody wanted to be a skinny guy in bathing trunks and nobody bought it. Unicliffe jobbed it out to the big wholesalers who got rid of it over the next 10 or more years along with other failed British aftershaves like Censored at a quid a bottle on market stalls. I bet there's still some of it about.

[Madmandy]

Nail - head - hit

For me the term Northern Soul, means so much more than just the music. I dont mean 'just the music' in a derogatory way.

Northern Soul encompasses the whole concept of the scene. The camaradrie that spills out into our whole life away from clubs and record bars. The type of person even willing to endure some of the lengths we go to, to enjoy our music. The collecting Gene. The dancing Gene.

It is a suitably generic all encompassing term that doesnt narrow the concept of a scene that plays a varied style of music. (Some not remotely soul).

It was perfect for when the majority of the clubs were in the north, but timeless enough to carry 30+ years of recognition by people who dont really know anything about our music. Apart from hazy memories of schoolmates in youth clubs leaping around dancefloors to records these people didn't know, and they probably brought along themselves and badgered the DJ to play.

It says to me, meeting people in motorway services and spotting that person you have known for 20 years, and cant ask their name, because after all this time you probably had been told it once, but cant remember what the hell it was. But still greet like a long lost brother or sister.

It says talking with people where noone cares if you are a millionare, or on the dole. A school teacher or a Lorry driver or a famous singer, an actor off the TV. You are just a Northern Soul fan, and that is generally all you need to make a friend.

It says, add alcohol/drugs whatever, and still people know how to interact in the cordial way, that seems impossible in many other scenarios for the public at large.

It says sweaty clubs, empty clubs, nice venues and dives. It says here is part of my life I have never regretted.

It says every time I drive through Yate, or pass Stafford on a train, or visit aunties and cousins in Leicester, I have to go a certain way that takes me past the old venue, or crane my neck and try to glimpse the old place as the train trundles to a halt at Stafford station. It says whenever I walk down Oxford Street I HAVE to peer through the doorway. I dont know why, but it has to be done.

It says when Soft Cell or Yazz come on the radio I feel the urge to change station. but in a knowing, almost pitious way. Not quite contemptuous. Not quite.

It says mates still think I am mental 30 years later, and dismiss my bleary eyed stop off for a pint on Sunday lunch time, on my way home to bed.

It says Matt and Conway and Vince and Bob and Hippo, and a thousand others I still see regularly at Soul nights. It says Mike and Bernadette and Kevin and Andy who I see about town, but who dont go any more. It says Paul who we lost in a car accident, but think about almost everyday, and not just at Easter.

If it was just Soul, jeez no-one would have given our music more than a second thought. It sets us and our music out as different, and the term is probably IMO, more important than Wigan and Stafford, the Torch, 100 club etc etc all added up and put together.

And it even means Poo Pan is something to be sought after. How many people can say the same!!??

Mikey

(Can anyone tell I havent had internet access for a few weeks? )

I can relate to this post very much

Mr Godin was a journalist

His intelligence would have been astounding and writing skills would have been off the chart

He could probably put into words everything we were thinking that Northern Soul meant to us

but in an extremely intelligent way

If Mr Godin was reading the post above now he would probably say it was the man in the streets version of what he was saying back then

I'm mainly going by what people have said in thier posts and I've followed these posts closely.

I too pay homage to Notts palais when I'm in town beacause a part of my young life was touched by those four walls I was part of something and I was proud of the whole thing,the music the dress code the dancing

the queueing everything

That hasn't changed

He is guilty ......Of giving us an identity ....which evolved form the sounds he heard in clubs being played in the north

And I thank him for it ( wish I had met him and shook his hand )

My life has been blessed with NORTHERN SOUL

Mand ( in a soulful mood )

[Drew3]

Thanks for all the great comments guys. I think I got all over emotional at having internet again. It was a kind of Sunny D ASBO sugar rush for grown ups. Glad it made sense as my fingers cannot keep up with my thoughts 99% of the time.

Drew, yep PooPan is a record label. BTW Are you the 100 club Drew lady person?

Hello ITM.

No I'm not the person you are referring to.

Bloke last time I looked !

Been into the music since the 70s with the not unusual detour into other things and back on the scene in the last few years.

Thanks for the answer re Poo Pan. I'm not a collector or DJ so the label is new to me. Just seen it on an auction site. Quite rare I gather.

Once again brilliant post that prompted me to post for the first time myself on what is sometimes quite a daunting, expert laden (not an insult) site for we mere mortals!

Will try to join in more now I've made the step.

KTF.

DREW.

[Pete S]

I can relate to this post very much

Mr Godin was a journalist

His intelligence would have been astounding and writing skills would have been off the chart

He could probably put into words everything we were thinking that Northern Soul meant to us

but in an extremely intelligent way

And I still wouldn't understand what he was on about.

[Guest Black Gold of the Sun]

First of all thanks to everyone who took the trouble to comment on this topic.As usual on this sight the replies revealed the diversity of opinion held on just about any subject you care to name.I,m sure Mr Godin would have approved.I never met him but his writing in Blues and Soul was responsible for drawing my attention to this thing we are all part of.

One memory I do have of him is being at the Mecca one night when he turned up and got Ian Levine to play The Crow and thinking to myself if they can get away with playing this then they can play anything.

[tone5446]

Godin's coining of the phrase Northern Soul (or any other name that identified a scene that was patently different) was necessary at the time as the North and South's idea of what was soulful had diverged. Southern soul fans had gone funky for the most part apart from a small band folk who used to travel Up North. But a scene still needs a name or else its not a scene, granted Rare Soul sounds better, but then you get rare deep soul, rare sweet soul etc, so its not so exact. Whatever you call it, outsiders aren't going to understand what its all about anyway, especially nowadays. Once you could say to someone "you know the beat of I can't help myself, well its like that" and that would sum it up, but with changes in the beat, speed (both types) and styles of music it's harder.

But in a way we don't really need a name for the scene anymore we know what we're here for and thats enough, you don't need to state in flyers and other ads that its northern soul, we know...which leads me to my final point and thats a moan about certain djs who feel the need to tell us during their spots that we're listening to some fantastic northern soul, matey, we know why we're here.....!

[Soulsmith]

And I still wouldn't understand what he was on about.

Dave Godin's columns weren't always wordy & pretentious. Sometimes they were just plain dull.

"Had a super time as guest of RCA at the Daryl Hall & John Oates concert.............After the show Daryl & John were full of life at their reception, and were highly complimentary about the article I'd written about them last summer, and had some highly complimentary things to say about B&S in general."

Blues & Soul Feb '77

Quite frankly thats just not good journalism.

Col.

[Pete S]

Dave Godin's columns weren't always wordy & pretentious. Sometimes they were just plain dull.

Col.

It's not just that - he'd write one line about a record then another 500 lines on how the artists and all black people were being repressed...sorry, just never enjoyed reading his babble I'm afraid.

[Soulsmith]

It's not just that - he'd write one line about a record then another 500 lines on how the artists and all black people were being repressed...sorry, just never enjoyed reading his babble I'm afraid.

That in general is also my recollection.

I have only 2 old B&S copies (which I have just re-read) & both columns were not at all controversial, just bland. Which is surprsing because in the 70s I found him annoying for other reasons.

[Simsy]

...sorry, just never enjoyed reading his babble I'm afraid.

How many people could that apply to on here I wonder? Me included!

I wasn't at an age to care when DG was penning his columns. Though I know people are gauged by their overall contribution. I admire him for coining the phrase. I admire him for forming the UK Tamla Motown Appreciation Society. And I admired him for things like meetings with Berry Gordy that Diana Ross wasn't privy to.

A flowery yawn-worthy writer, but a leg end all the same? And Esperanto! What the fcuk's that all about?

[manus]

Bit surprised by some of the negative comments about Dave Godin's articles in BS/BM. But the old saying"different strokes for different folks" springs to mind and everyones entitled to be inspired/bored or whatever. For me Godin made the connection between poverty and repression and the abilty to sing like someone's tearing at your heart. Soul records weren't an abstract entity for Godin he saw the singer behind the song and the ghetto that many of our heroes and heroines came from ( and sadly for many that's where they would stay) and I believe he tried to give the reader an insight into this life. He certainly did this for me

and for that I'll always be thankful.

All the best

Manus

[uni ted]

endearing memory for me about dave godin ,was when he introduced barbara lynn at fleetwood,i swear the man was almost crying,very touching memory of the man .

[Winnie :-)]

That in general is also my recollection.

I have only 2 old B&S copies (which I have just re-read) & both columns were not at all controversial, just bland. Which is surprsing because in the 70s I found him annoying for other reasons.

===========

Ok, you've got me on the line, time to reel me in ......... what other reasons?

Winnie:-)

[Guest]

===========

Ok, you've got me on the line, time to reel me in ......... what other reasons?

Winnie:-)

[Guest]

It started with a small cardboard box under the counter in the shop he and David Nathan had,marked "northern" because nobody in the area was interested in these old fashioned recordings.If you only knew what he said about the people who DID want those records you'd all sh*t yourselves!

He was nontheless a beautiful,funny,loveable, viscious old tart and a person who sometimes had appalling taste in music and films and people (and donkeys) often talking complete b*ll*cks about all kinds of subjects.He couldn't harm a flea,yet would have happily stabbed some humans to death with a rusty blade.

Perhaps you should read B&S 236,when he declared northern soul was dead!

I will love him till I die.

We will never see his like again.

[Billy Freemantle]

It started with a small cardboard box under the counter in the shop he and David Nathan had,marked "northern" because nobody in the area was interested in these old fashioned recordings.If you only knew what he said about the people who DID want those records you'd all sh*t yourselves!

Well go on, tell what he did say about the northern football fans that called into his shop after a London match.