Dave Godin Guilty?

[Guest Black Gold of the Sun]

In an idle moment at work the other night it occured to me that Dave Godin really didn,t do the soul scene any favours when he coined the phrase " Northern soul ".Was this the start of the factionalisation /tribalism so prevalent today.Surely soul is soul whatever the sub-genre you wish to file it under ?

[Guest Stuart T]

In an idle moment at work the other night it occured to me that Dave Godin really didn,t do the soul scene any favours when he coined the phrase " Northern soul ".Was this the start of the factionalisation /tribalism so prevalent today.Surely soul is soul whatever the sub-genre you wish to file it under ?

Is that you Gavin?

[Guest Matt Male]

In an idle moment at work the other night it occured to me that Dave Godin really didn,t do the soul scene any favours when he coined the phrase " Northern soul ".Was this the start of the factionalisation /tribalism so prevalent today.Surely soul is soul whatever the sub-genre you wish to file it under ?

I think your last sentence answers your question. We have sub-genres but it's all soul. I think at the time Dave was writing there was a need to differentiate the sounds of the northern clubs as opposed to what was being played down south but obviously that difference doesn't apply anymore (or does it) but the label has come to mean something else.

Good question though.

Matt

[Billy Freemantle]

But the point is that Northern Soul is different. Or at least it was. Certainly it was when Dave Godin coined the phrase. Somewhere along the line, though, stuff got played at N.S venues that did not have the distinctive feel and sound that Dave Godin had identified. Today,we can all fall out over certain records, well probably over loads of records. But we all know what proper Northern sounds like.

[soulfulsaint]

Dave was a journalist but also a passionate believer in the rights of the under-priviledged. I think his journalistsic instincts led him to classify the scene becasue that's what journalists do. How many scenes from punk to Brit Pop have been a scenes coined by the media rather than the consumer/user/particpant media to define a culture that is complex, and so for journalism needs a simpler term.

But this was allied to something else - Dave loved the idea that soul culture was forming and shaping itself differently in the north and wanted to argue that it was more vibrant and real than the more commerical and faddish south, specifically London, where the major labels and media are based.

He had very similar attitudes to independent film and argued passionately for a non-mainstream cinema culture. He argued passionately for animal rights. He was a polemicist.

I think he was great for the scene and the factionalsim now is about people who want the luxury of finding big difference in very small things.

I'm glad he used the phrase northern soul.

[Guest dundeedavie]

i think without the term northern soul it wouldn't have become what it did and is today , so you have to thank him for giving the whole thing an identity

Davie

[Modernsoulsucks]

"He was a polemicist"

Is that something like a lapdancer. I didn't know that""

ROD

[Soulsmith]

I think its actually turned out to be quite an unhelpful tag, but you can't really blame him for that.

Although I do have a long list of other things I blame him for.....

Col.

"He was a polemicist"

Is that something like a lapdancer. I didn't know that""

ROD

No, lap dancing is like modern soul dancing....more up & down

Edited April 7, 2006 by Soulsmith

[John Al]

Although I do have a long list of other things I blame him for.....

Hoped someone would say that - well done & agreed!

John.

Edited April 7, 2006 by John Alden

[Guest Black Gold of the Sun]

i think without the term northern soul it wouldn't have become what it did and is today , so you have to thank him for giving the whole thing an identity

Davie

I think the scene proved strong enough to realise its own identity.I sometimes feel that

the "northern" thing contributed to a certain negativity and stereotyping of soul in the north an extreme example being the goodies and black pudding bertha.it definetly fuelled the southern media view of it being "grim up north"

[Guest dundeedavie]

I think the scene proved strong enough to realise its own identity.I sometimes feel that

the "northern" thing contributed to a certain negativity and stereotyping of soul in the north an extreme example being the goodies and black pudding bertha.it definetly fuelled the southern media view of it being "grim up north"

hindsight is a wonderful thing

[Keithw]

I always prefered to call it the rare soul scene

if only to keep it seperate from the mainstream pop soul

if u go a soul night you couldnt complain if someone played

lionel ritchie/kool and the gang etc

but if it says rare soul you know it wont be that sort of stuff

people not on the scene ask me what type of music i like

if i say soul they say oh michael jackson/shallimar etc

if you say northern they think footsee etc

if u say rare soul,they havnt a clue and thats how i like it

keith williams

[Guest]

i think without the term northern soul it wouldn't have become what it did and is today , so you have to thank him for giving the whole thing an identity

Davie

No way Davie !

If Dave Godin had a bit of sense & called it "BRUMMIE SOUL" it would have been universally massive !!

[Sweeney]

All Dave Godin is guilty of is exposing truly beautiful music to those who otherwise may never have found it.

He was correct at the time to call it what he did, but unfortunately it became a byword for all that we with hindsight now find embarrassing when the scene was exposed to the general public - as keithw mentioned things like "Footsee", daft trousers etc. Not the fault of Dave Godin, I hasten to add.

The entity that Dave Godin christened "Northern Soul" is a very different beast to the global rare soul scene that exists today.

I personally think "Rare Soul" is a better general term - not as romantic as "Northern Soul" and all the positive images it conjurs up for me, but more accurate.

Maybe it shouldn't have a name at all? To suggest is to create, to describe is to destroy, as they say.

Edited April 7, 2006 by sweeney

[soulfulsaint]

"He was a polemicist"

Is that something like a lapdancer. I didn't know that""

ROD

For forty years now Rod, I have tried to raise your base sensibilities above a morass of seedy cyncism. It seems I am doomed to fail.

As you well know, a polemicist is someone who likes to put forward arguments. A lapdancer is where old men from Stockport go for relief.

[Guest Martin Coleman]

For forty years now Rod, I have tried to raise your base sensibilities above a morass of seedy cyncism. It seems I am doomed to fail.

As you well know, a polemicist is someone who likes to put forward arguments. A lapdancer is where old men from Stockport go for relief.

If the old man and the dancer were debating over the going rate, who would be the polemiest?

[Modernsoulsucks]

If the old man and the dancer were debating over the going rate, who would be the polemiest?

Would that be Lech Walenza?

Was Dave Godin a true polemicist or is Soulsmith with his cunning throwawy line "Although I do have a long list of other things I blame him for....."

"Nothing worse than being alone" . does not a scene make.

ROD

[Winsford Soul]

I think your last sentence answers your question. We have sub-genres but it's all soul. I think at the time Dave was writing there was a need to differentiate the sounds of the northern clubs as opposed to what was being played down south but obviously that difference doesn't apply anymore (or does it) but the label has come to mean something else.

Good question though.

Matt

Well put that man. Exactly what Dave said at the time. what was getting played in the southern clubs was different to the Soul been payed in the clubs up north, Hence Northern Soul.

Steve

[Guest dundeedavie]

No way Davie !

If Dave Godin had a bit of sense & called it "BRUMMIE SOUL" it would have been universally massive !!

it would have died among so many silly accents .... i still think him giving it a tag gave it the 30 year longevity that it would not have had without it ...

Davie

[Winsford Soul]

No way Davie !

If Dave Godin had a bit of sense & called it "BRUMMIE SOUL" it would have been universally massive !!

Along with Birmingham bags

Steve

[jocko]

Dave was a journalist but also a passionate believer in the rights of the under-priviledged. I think his journalistsic instincts led him to classify the scene becasue that's what journalists do. How many scenes from punk to Brit Pop have been a scenes coined by the media rather than the consumer/user/particpant media to define a culture that is complex, and so for journalism needs a simpler term.

But this was allied to something else - Dave loved the idea that soul culture was forming and shaping itself differently in the north and wanted to argue that it was more vibrant and real than the more commerical and faddish south, specifically London, where the major labels and media are based.

He had very similar attitudes to independent film and argued passionately for a non-mainstream cinema culture. He argued passionately for animal rights. He was a polemicist.

I think he was great for the scene and the factionalsim now is about people who want the luxury of finding big difference in very small things.

I'm glad he used the phrase northern soul.

Stuart that move away from Elgin obviously did you proud, most of the above is exactly what you would expect of a Channelf 4 exec who is really an educated wannabee football thug (copyright NOTW) and wanabee radio star!!

It is also one of the best and most on the point posts I have read on here, particularly your last line, I might not really like what people associate with Northern Soul now but I will fight (in a girly non violent sort of way) to defend what it was. Dave Godin, I think, politicised in the correct way that wonderful scene of its time and gave it a name. I would like some of his critics to be more specific on what they are criticising him for. The absurd genrification of this scene and the petty politicking of today has no relevance to him naming the scene. And I am no blind defender of Dave Godin, no doubt some of his views I disagreed with and some of his musical taste I found a bit weak (only some before Ady jumps on me). However he was an icon of the British soul scene, full stop.

i think without the term northern soul it wouldn't have become what it did and is today , so you have to thank him for giving the whole thing an identity

Davie

Dave second time I agree with you, spot on, for one so young and ugly (according to other people on the Scots scene since we have not yet met) I think that is a great observation.

At the end of the day, people like Dave Godin are easy to knock but I think he is and should be recognised as a special person, a human with flaws.

Pick up those stones those who have no flaws!!

[Robin S]

Funnily enough last week I retrieved an old tape box from the loft and have been listening to two tapes of Dave Godin on Richard's show - recorded around the time of the release of Deep Soul Treasures Vol 1. I never met Dave - and of course used to read his B & S articles in the late 70's (a lot of which probably went over my head at the time!) What struck me re-listening to the tapes are Dave's absolute love for Soul Music, his humanity and his obviously wicked sense of humour. His Kent cd's are in my opinion a magnificent testament to his memory.

[Guest franky m]

In an idle moment at work the other night it occured to me that Dave Godin really didn,t do the soul scene any favours when he coined the phrase " Northern soul ".Was this the start of the factionalisation /tribalism so prevalent today.Surely soul is soul whatever the sub-genre you wish to file it under ?

Identity: is a term that has spelled the end for most popular music genres , but the term NORTHERN SOUL - RARE SOUL means almost nothing to the general public , the roots that lead people to northern soul are many and varied,it has few qualifying factors , apart from the love of QUALITY SOUL MUSIC ?

[Guest Neil-ok]

How come i get the feeling that over the years since the closing down of wigan and other northern clubs and the rise of southern clubs(otherwise the soul is more spread and all equally northern in sound)that now we have this argument and soul has become a territorial issue? a bit like the north and south divide .

[Guest franky m]

How come i get the feeling that over the years since the closing down of wigan and other northern clubs and the rise of southern clubs(otherwise the soul is more spread and all equally northern in sound)that now we have this argument and soul has become a territorial issue? a bit like the north and south divide . well i sell northern soul on ebay , and if i had to target my customers i would put it as 50% north of watford 40% south of watford and 10% abroard , any other opinions???

[Guest Neil-ok]

Any other opinions?....plenty if you want them mate?.

[Neiljon31]

. His Kent cd's are in my opinion a magnificent testament to his memory.

[Ady Croasdell]

Soulful Saint was spot on.

Also dave's contributions to Northern Soul were really from roughly 1968-1972 when the scene was forming. This was actually a surprisingly long period as no one expected the phenomenon to go on for more than a couple of years. we had no idea how much stuff was out there. He was eventually dispirited by the commerciality and some personal feuds he ended up in and though he looked on it fondly in later years was never a part of it again.

[Winnie :-)]

Dave was a journalist but also a passionate believer in the rights of the under-priviledged. I think his journalistsic instincts led him to classify the scene becasue that's what journalists do. How many scenes from punk to Brit Pop have been a scenes coined by the media rather than the consumer/user/particpant media to define a culture that is complex, and so for journalism needs a simpler term.

But this was allied to something else - Dave loved the idea that soul culture was forming and shaping itself differently in the north and wanted to argue that it was more vibrant and real than the more commerical and faddish south, specifically London, where the major labels and media are based.

He had very similar attitudes to independent film and argued passionately for a non-mainstream cinema culture. He argued passionately for animal rights. He was a polemicist.

I think he was great for the scene and the factionalsim now is about people who want the luxury of finding big difference in very small things.

I'm glad he used the phrase northern soul.

============

Totally agree with the above

Winnie:-)

[Guest Black Gold of the Sun]

Stuart that move away from Elgin obviously did you proud, most of the above is exactly what you would expect of a Channelf 4 exec who is really an educated wannabee football thug (copyright NOTW) and wanabee radio star!!

It is also one of the best and most on the point posts I have read on here, particularly your last line, I might not really like what people associate with Northern Soul now but I will fight (in a girly non violent sort of way) to defend what it was. Dave Godin, I think, politicised in the correct way that wonderful scene of its time and gave it a name. I would like some of his critics to be more specific on what they are criticising him for. The absurd genrification of this scene and the petty politicking of today has no relevance to him naming the scene. And I am no blind defender of Dave Godin, no doubt some of his views I disagreed with and some of his musical taste I found a bit weak (only some before Ady jumps on me). However he was an icon of the British soul scene, full stop.

Dave second time I agree with you, spot on, for one so young and ugly (according to other people on the Scots scene since we have not yet met) I think that is a great observation.

At the end of the day, people like Dave Godin are easy to knock but I think he is and should be recognised as a special person, a human with flaws.

Pick up those stones those who have no flaws!!

My original post was not meant to critiisce Dave Godin in any way,it was more concerned with trying to put a finger on the root of a lot of the politics etc, which affect soul music now and in the past.As a writer on soul,film and any subject he chose to inform us on he was without peer.

[Guest Black Gold of the Sun]

hindsight is a wonderful thing

Yes it is because it helps us to learn from our mistakes

[Modernsoulsucks]

Soulful Saint was spot on.

Also dave's contributions to Northern Soul were really from roughly 1968-1972 when the scene was forming. This was actually a surprisingly long period as no one expected the phenomenon to go on for more than a couple of years. we had no idea how much stuff was out there. He was eventually dispirited by the commerciality and some personal feuds he ended up in and though he looked on it fondly in later years was never a part of it again.

Is this a case of rose-tinted spectacles?

I remember eagerly purchasing my copy of Blues&Soul and opening it at Dave's column and beginning to read and then having to flip back to the front cover to make sure I'd not picked up Nietzsche's "Towards a Genealogy of Morals" by mistake. Sometimes he could go a whole sentence without mentioning Alf Billingham or "Nothing's bloody worse than being alone".

Living in London at the end of '72 Im surprised he neglected to cover what was going on there too. At the "Wheatsheaf" pub run by Terry from Record Corner the music ethos was just as pronounced and maybe more so in that "across the board" was the policy long before advent of 70's Northern and crossover. Ady would know more than me about the "Bird's Nest" in West Hampstead [was it?] but those bloody cockneys like Mick Smith were just as dedicated as those up North. Whatever happened to him then? Bloody flash in the pan!! Too facking right!!

On a lighter note I would like to point out that despite Soulful Saint's libel I have only attented a Lapdancing club the once. My "hostess" smelt of reindeer and suffered from severe frostbite. I much preferred the Eskimoleaping Parlour next door although the beer was watered down and I spent much of my time in the ig Loo.

ROD

PS If Dave Godin had written an article argueing the case for Santa Claus, would he have been a North Pole-micist?

[Soulsmith]

For forty years now Rod, I have tried to raise your base sensibilities above a morass of seedy cyncism.

Seedy cyncism is often under rated.

At the other end of the scales you have blind obedenice, dutiful & submissive behaviour.

I like to think the two balance each other out.

Col.

[Modernsoulsucks]

At the other end of the scales you have blind obedenice, dutiful & submissive behaviour.

Col.

You're confusing lapdancing with S&M!!

ROD

[Soulsmith]

Very good Rod PMSL

Would quite happily debate issue further, but appreciate maybe going a little off topic.....

Col

[Ady Croasdell]

Is this a case of rose-tinted spectacles?

I remember eagerly purchasing my copy of Blues&Soul and opening it at Dave's column and beginning to read and then having to flip back to the front cover to make sure I'd not picked up Nietzsche's "Towards a Genealogy of Morals" by mistake. Sometimes he could go a whole sentence without mentioning Alf Billingham or "Nothing's bloody worse than being alone".

Living in London at the end of '72 Im surprised he neglected to cover what was going on there too. At the "Wheatsheaf" pub run by Terry from Record Corner the music ethos was just as pronounced and maybe more so in that "across the board" was the policy long before advent of 70's Northern and crossover. Ady would know more than me about the "Bird's Nest" in West Hampstead [was it?] but those bloody cockneys like Mick Smith were just as dedicated as those up North. Whatever happened to him then? Bloody flash in the pan!! Too facking right!!

No i don't see any rose coloured specs here. Your criticism of him seems to be that he was too wordy and off topic and that he didn't go to some London soul dances. You can quote a Nietzsche book title now, so perhaps some of his erudition rubbed off on you and Mick, Terry and the rest of the crowd never had any problems with Dave not attending certain venues. He was never a part of the scene more a welcome observer and contributor. You don't have to attend continually to be a Northern fan, there's other stuff going on in the world too.

[Guest]

In an idle moment at work the other night it occured to me that Dave Godin really didn,t do the soul scene any favours when he coined the phrase " Northern soul ".Was this the start of the factionalisation /tribalism so prevalent today.Surely soul is soul whatever the sub-genre you wish to file it under ?

I think that's the point Dave was making, when he coined the phrase "Northern Soul" because it wasn't exclusively "Soul": never has been and never will be. It's just good music you want to move to: no matter who sings or produces it. Surely that's the great thing about Northern Soul ..that in does encompass all genres, and mostly the BEST of all genres. We should be proud that the scene discovers so many great recordings.. ..hidden away on b-sides, wierd labels and sensational records by Artists who are not associated with soul. Paul Anka, Johnny Caswell, Eartha Kitt, Elvis Presley, Dolly Parton, the list is endless...

[Modernsoulsucks]

No i don't see any rose coloured specs here. Your criticism of him seems to be that he was too wordy and off topic and that he didn't go to some London soul dances. You can quote a Nietzsche book title now, so perhaps some of his erudition rubbed off on you and Mick, Terry and the rest of the crowd never had any problems with Dave not attending certain venues. He was never a part of the scene more a welcome observer and contributor. You don't have to attend continually to be a Northern fan, there's other stuff going on in the world too.

I can assure you that Dave Godin never rubbed off on me!! I was quite aware of Nietzsche's work long before Mr. Godin appeared and could only marvel at how he found the time to write all those incomprehensible books whilst working with Phil Spector.

I no longer have his articles. All I remember are some pictures of punters outside the Wheel, a roll-call of attendees and the bloody Ad-Libs.

Does this spat mean that any chances of free weekend passes to your excellent promotions are now receding into the far distance?

ROD

Very good Rod PMSL

Would quite happily debate issue further, but appreciate maybe going a little off topic.....

Col

Ok Col. Im a little tied up at the moment anyway.

ROD

[Guest]

what's in a name, a rose smells as sweet under any name, if people have to identify it with a label, let it be so, if people can't see past the label and into the substance then hey, they ain't really into the substance and just the label (badge)

[Guest dundeedavie]

what's in a name, a rose smells as sweet under any name, if people have to identify it with a label, let it be so, if people can't see past the label and into the substance then hey, they ain't really into the substance and just the label (badge)

but like advertising any product or even talking about it with friends ... give it a name , makes life easier than "soul music kinda like motown but on lesser known labels and lesser known artists where we go out and dance all night in a certain way " .... rolls off the tongue doesn't it . .... in my opinion the term "northern soul " was a stroke of genius and who knows how many people it brought in, maybe not all of them stayed in the scene and if even 20% did it was worth it , wasn't it ?

Davie

[Billy Freemantle]

Being a little bit tangential , but not off topic, does anyone remember who coined the phrase amphetasoul? I became aware of this phrase in about 1970. At that time I had no idea that the music we were dancing to was Northern Soul.

[Guest ShaneH]

Being a little bit tangential , but not off topic, does anyone remember who coined the phrase amphetasoul? I became aware of this phrase in about 1970. At that time I had no idea that the music we were dancing to was Northern Soul.

think its best we avoid drug related subjects on here.

already got the tabloids watching us regarding other subjects

cheers

Shane

[Guest 50box]

I think that's the point Dave was making, when he coined the phrase "Northern Soul" because it wasn't exclusively "Soul": never has been and never will be. It's just good music you want to move to: no matter who sings or produces it. Surely that's the great thing about Northern Soul ..that in does encompass all genres, and mostly the BEST of all genres. We should be proud that the scene discovers so many great recordings.. ..hidden away on b-sides, wierd labels and sensational records by Artists who are not associated with soul. Paul Anka, Johnny Caswell, Eartha Kitt, Elvis Presley, Dolly Parton, the list is endless...

Don`t think I`ve read anything by DG that gave merit to any music that wasn`t exclusively black & american.

I prefer the NS used as a box catagory in the shop theory

[BrianB]

Dave was a journalist but also a passionate believer in the rights of the under-priviledged. I think his journalistsic instincts led him to classify the scene becasue that's what journalists do. How many scenes from punk to Brit Pop have been a scenes coined by the media rather than the consumer/user/particpant media to define a culture that is complex, and so for journalism needs a simpler term.

But this was allied to something else - Dave loved the idea that soul culture was forming and shaping itself differently in the north and wanted to argue that it was more vibrant and real than the more commerical and faddish south, specifically London, where the major labels and media are based.

He had very similar attitudes to independent film and argued passionately for a non-mainstream cinema culture. He argued passionately for animal rights. He was a polemicist.

I think he was great for the scene and the factionalsim now is about people who want the luxury of finding big difference in very small things.

I'm glad he used the phrase northern soul.

What a great reply and I agree the last sentence sums up my feelings in a simple way. I would have rambled on for ever and not expressed myself in such an eloquent way.

[Rob Wigley]

God bless Dave Godin, without him I don't think 99% of us would have been where we are today, like most things in life people do try and put a label on it. Northern Soul did exactly what it said on the tin at the time.

[Guest in town Mikey]

But this was allied to something else - Dave loved the idea that soul culture was forming and shaping itself differently in the north and wanted to argue that it was more vibrant and real than the more commerical and faddish south, specifically London, where the major labels and media are based.

I'm glad he used the phrase northern soul.

Nail - head - hit

For me the term Northern Soul, means so much more than just the music. I dont mean 'just the music' in a derogatory way.

Northern Soul encompasses the whole concept of the scene. The camaradrie that spills out into our whole life away from clubs and record bars. The type of person even willing to endure some of the lengths we go to, to enjoy our music. The collecting Gene. The dancing Gene.

It is a suitably generic all encompassing term that doesnt narrow the concept of a scene that plays a varied style of music. (Some not remotely soul).

It was perfect for when the majority of the clubs were in the north, but timeless enough to carry 30+ years of recognition by people who dont really know anything about our music. Apart from hazy memories of schoolmates in youth clubs leaping around dancefloors to records these people didn't know, and they probably brought along themselves and badgered the DJ to play.

It says to me, meeting people in motorway services and spotting that person you have known for 20 years, and cant ask their name, because after all this time you probably had been told it once, but cant remember what the hell it was. But still greet like a long lost brother or sister.

It says talking with people where noone cares if you are a millionare, or on the dole. A school teacher or a Lorry driver or a famous singer, an actor off the TV. You are just a Northern Soul fan, and that is generally all you need to make a friend.

It says, add alcohol/drugs whatever, and still people know how to interact in the cordial way, that seems impossible in many other scenarios for the public at large.

It says sweaty clubs, empty clubs, nice venues and dives. It says here is part of my life I have never regretted.

It says every time I drive through Yate, or pass Stafford on a train, or visit aunties and cousins in Leicester, I have to go a certain way that takes me past the old venue, or crane my neck and try to glimpse the old place as the train trundles to a halt at Stafford station. It says whenever I walk down Oxford Street I HAVE to peer through the doorway. I dont know why, but it has to be done.

It says when Soft Cell or Yazz come on the radio I feel the urge to change station. but in a knowing, almost pitious way. Not quite contemptuous. Not quite.

It says mates still think I am mental 30 years later, and dismiss my bleary eyed stop off for a pint on Sunday lunch time, on my way home to bed.

It says Matt and Conway and Vince and Bob and Hippo, and a thousand others I still see regularly at Soul nights. It says Mike and Bernadette and Kevin and Andy who I see about town, but who dont go any more. It says Paul who we lost in a car accident, but think about almost everyday, and not just at Easter.

If it was just Soul, jeez no-one would have given our music more than a second thought. It sets us and our music out as different, and the term is probably IMO, more important than Wigan and Stafford, the Torch, 100 club etc etc all added up and put together.

And it even means Poo Pan is something to be sought after. How many people can say the same!!??

Mikey

(Can anyone tell I havent had internet access for a few weeks? )

Edited April 10, 2006 by in town Mikey

[BrianB]

Nail - head - hit

For me the term Northern Soul, means so much more than just the music. I dont mean 'just the music' in a derogatory way.

Northern Soul encompasses the whole concept of the scene. The camaradrie that spills out into our whole life away from clubs and record bars. The type of person even willing to endure some of the lengths we go to, to enjoy our music. The collecting Gene. The dancing Gene.

It is a suitably generic all encompassing term that doesnt narrow the concept of a scene that plays a varied style of music. (Some not remotely soul).

It was perfect for when the majority of the clubs were in the north, but timeless enough to carry 30+ years of recognition by people who dont really know anything about our music. Apart from hazy memories of schoolmates in youth clubs leaping around dancefloors to records these people didn't know, and they probably brought along themselves and badgered the DJ to play.

It says to me, meeting people in motorway services and spotting that person you have known for 20 years, and cant ask their name, because after all this time you probably had been told it once, but cant remember what the hell it was. But still greet like a long lost brother or sister.

It says talking with people where noone cares if you are a millionare, or on the dole. A school teacher or a Lorry driver or a famous singer, an actor off the TV. You are just a Northern Soul fan, and that is generally all you need to make a friend.

It says, add alcohol/drugs whatever, and still people know how to interact in the cordial way, that seems impossible in many other scenarios for the public at large.

It says sweaty clubs, empty clubs, nice venues and dives. It says here is part of my life I have never regretted.

It says every time I drive through Yate, or pass Stafford on a train, or visit aunties and cousins in Leicester, I have to go a certain way that takes me past the old venue, or crane my neck and try to glimpse the old place as the train trundles to a halt at Stafford station. It says whenever I walk down Oxford Street I HAVE to peer through the doorway. I dont know why, but it has to be done.

It says when Soft Cell or Yazz come on the radio I feel the urge to change station. but in a knowing, almost pitious way. Not quite contemptuous. Not quite.

It says mates still think I am mental 30 years later, and dismiss my bleary eyed stop off for a pint on Sunday lunch time, on my way home to bed.

It says Matt and Conway and Vince and Bob and Hippo, and a thousand others I still see regularly at Soul nights. It says Mike and Bernadette and Kevin and Andy who I see about town, but who dont go any more. It says Paul who we lost in a car accident, but think about almost everyday, and not just at Easter.

If it was just Soul, jeez no-one would have given our music more than a second thought. It sets us and our music out as different, and the term is probably IMO, more important than Wigan and Stafford, the Torch, 100 club etc etc all added up and put together.

And it even means Poo Pan is something to be sought after. How many people can say the same!!??

Mikey

(Can anyone tell I havent had internet access for a few weeks? )

Mikey,

Brilliant reply, absolutely brilliant!!!!

[Guest Gavin Page]

Is that you Gavin?

No mate, but should have been

I was in Yarmuff at the time

[Guest]

Nail - head - hit

For me the term Northern Soul, means so much more than just the music. I dont mean 'just the music' in a derogatory way.

Northern Soul encompasses the whole concept of the scene. The camaradrie that spills out into our whole life away from clubs and record bars. The type of person even willing to endure some of the lengths we go to, to enjoy our music. The collecting Gene. The dancing Gene.

It is a suitably generic all encompassing term that doesnt narrow the concept of a scene that plays a varied style of music. (Some not remotely soul).

It was perfect for when the majority of the clubs were in the north, but timeless enough to carry 30+ years of recognition by people who dont really know anything about our music. Apart from hazy memories of schoolmates in youth clubs leaping around dancefloors to records these people didn't know, and they probably brought along themselves and badgered the DJ to play.

It says to me, meeting people in motorway services and spotting that person you have known for 20 years, and cant ask their name, because after all this time you probably had been told it once, but cant remember what the hell it was. But still greet like a long lost brother or sister.

It says talking with people where noone cares if you are a millionare, or on the dole. A school teacher or a Lorry driver or a famous singer, an actor off the TV. You are just a Northern Soul fan, and that is generally all you need to make a friend.

It says, add alcohol/drugs whatever, and still people know how to interact in the cordial way, that seems impossible in many other scenarios for the public at large.

It says sweaty clubs, empty clubs, nice venues and dives. It says here is part of my life I have never regretted.

It says every time I drive through Yate, or pass Stafford on a train, or visit aunties and cousins in Leicester, I have to go a certain way that takes me past the old venue, or crane my neck and try to glimpse the old place as the train trundles to a halt at Stafford station. It says whenever I walk down Oxford Street I HAVE to peer through the doorway. I dont know why, but it has to be done.

It says when Soft Cell or Yazz come on the radio I feel the urge to change station. but in a knowing, almost pitious way. Not quite contemptuous. Not quite.

It says mates still think I am mental 30 years later, and dismiss my bleary eyed stop off for a pint on Sunday lunch time, on my way home to bed.

It says Matt and Conway and Vince and Bob and Hippo, and a thousand others I still see regularly at Soul nights. It says Mike and Bernadette and Kevin and Andy who I see about town, but who dont go any more. It says Paul who we lost in a car accident, but think about almost everyday, and not just at Easter.

If it was just Soul, jeez no-one would have given our music more than a second thought. It sets us and our music out as different, and the term is probably IMO, more important than Wigan and Stafford, the Torch, 100 club etc etc all added up and put together.

And it even means Poo Pan is something to be sought after. How many people can say the same!!??

Mikey

(Can anyone tell I havent had internet access for a few weeks? )

Nice one Mikey

Dave

[Sean Hampsey]

I've always believed that Dave's coining of the phrase had little or nothing to do with the music but was a geographic reference to the scene only i.e. "the Soul Clubs in the North". It was an appropriate enough reference at the time, but he spent many decades afterwards trying to disassociate himself from the phrase in the way that it had been contorted and often said that the 'scene' needed to ditch the description as a classification of the music itself. It was the 'scene' that 'took up' and adopted the term and I can assure you that he would have said a big Amen to your comment that "Soul Is Soul whatever sub-genre you file it under".

Let's remember that, whether you're from the North or the South of the country, Dave's contribution to the growth, acceptance and appreciation of real Soul Music in Britain is unparalleled. Those of us whose lives were enriched by his reviews and recommendations (of any tempo or sub-genre) will be forever in his debt.

Sean Hampsey

Edited April 10, 2006 by Sean Hampsey