"thinking Aloud" R4 29th March 4.00pm

[Guest dundeedavie]

they referred to a docu ? is this a radio one or one of the tv ones?

Davie

[FrankM]

they referred to a docu ? is this a radio one or one of the tv ones?

Davie

There's listen again link here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/thinkingallowed/

[Modernsoulsucks]

they referred to a docu ? is this a radio one or one of the tv ones?

Davie

I think that was a radio docu as I remember Tim's explanation for"divs" that opened the segment as previously being on Radio 2. Maybe that Stuart Marconie who piddles about on the fringes of the scene was the presenter for that.

I didn't think that Laurie Taylor had a clue really. He began by saying that he'd "missed" the NS phenomena when even some minimal research would have shown that it's still going strong.

The Media have a hard time understanding anything that they haven't packaged to sell.

ROD

[Billywhizz]

Sometimes i talk crap!!

So do I Ken talking about drugs at the casino I can remember going into the loo the 1st to or 3 kicking of at the casino syringes stuff behind the loo they knew what was going on just turned the blind eye 2 it just f***king money money. Thats your hardcore users not your sweet pill pill. Billy

[Guest]

I listened. Bit of a mish-mash as it was difficult to tell from the interview what salient points the presenter and Andy Wilson were trying to make and Stuart did kinda derail any notion that it was a drugs thing by bringing it back to the music whenever he could. Definitely not enough time allowed to do the subject justice.

Yes just caught it Brief and uncontroversial not enough time to really push andys book. Yes Stuart did move it away some what?

At the end of the day ANY club that would be opening its doors when all others closed especially with no Strict dress codes was allways going to attract Drugs and Drug users!

It wasnt NS that spawned a drug culture the culture was allready there it just came in through the door.

If hip hop was born then it would be hip hop spawning!

All night Country & Western we would have all been on Doris Days sucking the mold off Barley bails.

If people became deeply involved, again it wasnt the Souls fault or the promoters of these events, They probably would have become unstuck anyway Just the same as some do /some dont Today!

I Appreciate others may not have become involved had they not sought out a nighter or come accross it so early But would that have stopped them from becoming involved later without any connection to a soul club? probably not ?

The important thing is that the Soul was and is what its all about,The Music! There might have been a tinge in the mix but the cake came out just fine.

Its proven that Well.

Unlike Rockers who used drugs as an intrigue factor like the Stones,Doors Phsycodelia etc .

Soul Artists in the main lived clean and presented themselves so! They gave no hint as to any associations they may have had personely.

If the point is NS clubs started off drug use in a club culture thats crap, Jazz clubs in Soho was rife with gear way before Mods or NS started dancing!

If he fetches it out in paperback for under a tenner i might have a read but for £40 it can stay on the shelf ime not interested Ive moved on Souls moved on and thats fine with me. M

[Guest SteveC]

Don't forget ritually applying the Brut to a variety of body parts

Or "Essence of man" as Nick Hackett so fondly calls it (and still uses )

[Paul R]

I haven't heard the Radio 4 thing yet, the replay on the website apears to be playing another one. But reading through the general posts on this subject, there doesn't apear to have been many drug users at the Casino or the scene in general. Perhaps that's why I got paranoid so often. 2,499 people were obviously pointing at me saying "about the drug problem on the Northern scene, There he is".

Thank feck everyone has grown out of it now.

Paul

[Guest]

OK, in keeping with another SS thread "Ficticious Soul Bands", how about you sneak in a reference to a ficticious soul club. For example, "popular clubs included Wigan's Casino, Stoke's Golden Torch, Manchester's Twisted Wheel and Cirencester's Silver Spoon".

If we all hold the line, perhaps we can get a place for "The Spoon" in Northern Soul folklore. (I think we owe it to all the old "Spooners", that like myself, drove, hitched or even walked to this great little club)

I went to the Casino every week, and this doesn't sound like anything me or my mates were into during this period, Load of Bollocks and @ £40 a go, he's laughing all the way to the bank, without the DRUG side of the story it wouldn't have the appeal to the masses and therefore no commercial viability. Let's face it to get drugs back in the 70's you had to know someone who was into drugs before you came across them, now they hand them out at the school gate.

Laughing all the way to the bank - that had me laughing my ass off!!! I'm a fucking academic we get f*ck all for writing books - the publishers charge big prices and we get ... actually I did get a Royalty check once....

Load of bollocks? How can you say that about something you haven't even read? If you were at the Casino every week you walked around with your eyes closed or you were a complete divvie... The book is based ont he lives of others who clearly had a different experience to yours - just because it was different doesn't make it wrong - 'or a pile of boll*cks'.

As for fictitious clubs - as if I would fall for that! Jesus.

Edited June 4, 2012 by chalky
swearing edited and insult removed

[Chalky]

Laughing all the way to the bank - that had me laughing my ass off!!! I'm a fucking academic we get f*ck all for writing books - the publishers charge big prices and we get ... actually I did get a Royalty check once....

Load of bollocks? How can you say that about something you haven't even read? If you were at the Casino every week you walked around with your eyes closed or you were a complete divvie... The book is based ont he lives of others who clearly had a different experience to yours - just because it was different doesn't make it wrong - 'or a pile of boll*cks'.

As for fictitious clubs - as if I would fall for that! Jesus.

I've edited your swearing and removed the insult. Anymore like that and action will be taken and post removed. If you can't debate rationally without the insults then don't bother.

[Guest]

I've edited your swearing and removed the insult. Anymore like that and action will be taken and post removed. If you can't debate rationally without the insults then don't bother.

I agree - came back to edit. But the insult he made 'pile of bollocks' was on the site without comment for six years! His comments were well short of rational debate.

[Guest]

Don't worry that point will be forceably made promise

I always wondered where it came from... shame we couldn't have got a reference in to backstabbers.

[Guest manusf3a]

Having taken and completed a psychology honours degree as a mature(?)student some fiteen years ago and ended up with a two one,I know the price of academic books can be ridiculously high,thats why most people use the library rather than buy every book referenced in their course,you do though buy the main ones you will need and they are not cheap,dont know why they are so dear thats just how it is.There is a growing interest in the field of parapsychology,perhaps the attacker of Mr Wilson who went to wigan every week might like to present himself at one of the universities where research is being conducted as he has the ability to read and analyse a book without ever seeing it or hearing its contents read out for him on one of the mediums such as radio,recorded disc etc.Such abilities as I understand it (though this might just be hearsay )are extremely useful to those in business and even in national defence.

Having not read the book myself but being familiar with social psychological theories and a bit of overlap among the social sciences,as well my own personal background involving criminality,northern soul,allnighters ,chemist burglary and opiate use I would more than likely buy the book myself but it wouldnt be just because its a book about northern soul and all nighters like some on the market thats just me,howeverI dont think there was any intention for this book to", appeal to the masses.Andy Wilson I can fully understand your anger and empathisewith you as I can guess at the amount of work that went into that as I know what I had to get through at degree level and tried to get funding for a phd into a similar subject but got nowhere(but in the process realised how much work it would take).Three years I guess for the phd thats a long time.Also well done for getting there I have experienced the prejudice first hand when folk find out about your past and all of a sudden come to the conclusion you might not be the "best",employee they want regardless of qualification.

About the opiate use at all nighters it went on underwraps with our circle so it must have done among other circles round the country ,I know a few groups personaly where it did,dikes and smack etc for the mornings and secret habits but still doing amphetamines at nighters.I didnt know of barbs in boxes till well into the end of the eighties but when they did put them in certain folk close would leave them in there,I have always hated barbs as they turn people into the worst piss head behaviour types out they also kill..Anyway atb ps I think I have been around long enough now and over the years up till now am pretty much aware of what goes on but as your"debater?",said "Theyre handing it out at the schoolgates now",I personaly have never seen or known this ?although for many years I walked to school with the kids"

Edited June 9, 2012 by manusf3a

[Blake H]

Intresting how many of the original posters are now no longer active.

BH

[Mike]

Intresting how many of the original posters are now no longer active.

BH

always interesting looking back,

guess depends on what call active

just had a quick mental add up - using the hover card last logged in

would say maybe 5 or 6 of posters no longer active after 6 years ?

[Dave Rimmer]

Just out of interest, here's the review I did of the book in question when it was first published.

Andrew Wilson - Northern Soul - Music, drugs, and subcultural identity - Willian Publishing - ISBN 978184322087

Originally written as a thesis for his PhD, Andrew Wilson, with this historical ethnography (And I had to look it up in the dictionary what a historical ethnography is !) has certainly covered his subject well. This is a heavyweight book ! Although the subject matter is related to the Northern Soul scene throughout because that's where Andrew drew his research from, this isn't a book about the Northern Soul scene, or even Soul music for that matter. It's a serious piece of research into the why's and wherefores of how and when , and what consequences, drugs have had on the cultural groupings of people who were into Northern in the Seventies. In all honesty, if you have been around the Northern scene for any length of time, you will recognise some of the scenarios discussed, perhaps not from personal experience, but you'll have heard of someone in those situations..There are light moments of humour as well, in particular, I love the quote where the author is interviewing a friend from the Seventies and asked him "When did you first take drugs ?", and the reply was "When you gave me some !". Classic ! Because this is really an academic piece of work it isn't cheap, and if you buy it through the Publisher it will cost you £40. However, if you email Andrew on a8drewson@googlemail.com, I'm sure he can come to some arrangement with you that will be a little bit less.

[Mike]

Just out of interest, here's the review I did of the book in question when it was first published.

Andrew Wilson - Northern Soul - Music, drugs, and subcultural identity - Willian Publishing - ISBN 978184322087

Originally written as a thesis for his PhD, Andrew Wilson, with this historical ethnography (And I had to look it up in the dictionary what a historical ethnography is !) has certainly covered his subject well. This is a heavyweight book ! Although the subject matter is related to the Northern Soul scene throughout because that's where Andrew drew his research from, this isn't a book about the Northern Soul scene, or even Soul music for that matter. It's a serious piece of research into the why's and wherefores of how and when , and what consequences, drugs have had on the cultural groupings of people who were into Northern in the Seventies. In all honesty, if you have been around the Northern scene for any length of time, you will recognise some of the scenarios discussed, perhaps not from personal experience, but you'll have heard of someone in those situations..There are light moments of humour as well, in particular, I love the quote where the author is interviewing a friend from the Seventies and asked him "When did you first take drugs ?", and the reply was "When you gave me some !". Classic ! Because this is really an academic piece of work it isn't cheap, and if you buy it through the Publisher it will cost you £40. However, if you email Andrew on a8drewson@googlemail.com, I'm sure he can come to some arrangement with you that will be a little bit less.

is it still available ? kindle?

think I may have seen a preview via google books more recently?

andrew

did you see the post from the researcher for a upcoming c4 programme

may be of interest, its in the news article section if not

[Chalky]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Northern-Soul-Subcultural-Identity-Ethnography/dp/1843922088/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339261979&sr=1-1

From £21

No kindle unfortunately.

[Guest]

is it still available ? kindle?

think I may have seen a preview via google books more recently?

andrew

did you see the post from the researcher for a upcoming c4 programme

may be of interest, its in the news article section if not

Sorry all, I didn't receive notice that my comment had received a follow up. Thanks to manusf3a.

The book is still available but it was not released as an electronic version because I refused to agree to the rights (because the publisher planned to charge the same high price). I fell out with the publisher over the pricing (when Willan were bought out by Routledge they pushed the price of the series up to £70-80 (yet I note on my recent Royalty statement £0 that they treat the book price as £16 - I am supposed to get 10% of that but the few showing on the statement is rounded down to zero for some reason.

I started a campaign against the publisher for pricing students out of the market, refusing to add books published by Routledge to my course reading list, not reviewing their publications etc. The upshot of that, after asking if I could buy back the rights to my book, is that they have given me back the rights. I was going to publish it through Amazon, perhaps linking up the Literacy Trust (a charity that promotes reading in disadvantaged neighbourhoods) but other than that just publishing at cost. That idea is on hold with news that Amazon have been publishing right wing crap and any other lunatic ideas... I'm not sure whether to publish as it is or to revise the book - I know there is too much of the thesis in their (too many unnecessary references). And I had to cut a chapter that maybe could go back - though this will not make it any easier to negotiate the need to make it readable while retaining its academic credentials (our output is periodically assessed so the book could be useful - so far it hasn't been much use!). As ever finding time to do the writing is the big problem - the book is behind another on violence and four research articles. Maybe I should just edit out the poor phrasing and typos!

If anyone has read it and has suggestions for what I should get rid of or add I'd be pleased to hear.

[Guest]

is it still available ? kindle?

think I may have seen a preview via google books more recently?

andrew

did you see the post from the researcher for a upcoming c4 programme

may be of interest, its in the news article section if not

Thanks for the review Dave - spotted it at the time.

Yes, the researcher for the programme contacted me a while ago but I couldn't help. I mentioned it to a couple of people I know who are still in the old routine - but I was half-hearted in the asking because I couldn't see any advantage to from opening yourself up to something that is out of your control (that kind of thing can really mess your head up so best avoided).

[Guest]

Having taken and completed a psychology honours degree as a mature(?)student some fiteen years ago and ended up with a two one,I know the price of academic books can be ridiculously high,thats why most people use the library rather than buy every book referenced in their course,you do though buy the main ones you will need and they are not cheap,dont know why they are so dear thats just how it is.There is a growing interest in the field of parapsychology,perhaps the attacker of Mr Wilson who went to wigan every week might like to present himself at one of the universities where research is being conducted as he has the ability to read and analyse a book without ever seeing it or hearing its contents read out for him on one of the mediums such as radio,recorded disc etc.Such abilities as I understand it (though this might just be hearsay )are extremely useful to those in business and even in national defence.

Having not read the book myself but being familiar with social psychological theories and a bit of overlap among the social sciences,as well my own personal background involving criminality,northern soul,allnighters ,chemist burglary and opiate use I would more than likely buy the book myself but it wouldnt be just because its a book about northern soul and all nighters like some on the market thats just me,howeverI dont think there was any intention for this book to", appeal to the masses.Andy Wilson I can fully understand your anger and empathisewith you as I can guess at the amount of work that went into that as I know what I had to get through at degree level and tried to get funding for a phd into a similar subject but got nowhere(but in the process realised how much work it would take).Three years I guess for the phd thats a long time.Also well done for getting there I have experienced the prejudice first hand when folk find out about your past and all of a sudden come to the conclusion you might not be the "best",employee they want regardless of qualification.

About the opiate use at all nighters it went on underwraps with our circle so it must have done among other circles round the country ,I know a few groups personaly where it did,dikes and smack etc for the mornings and secret habits but still doing amphetamines at nighters.I didnt know of barbs in boxes till well into the end of the eighties but when they did put them in certain folk close would leave them in there,I have always hated barbs as they turn people into the worst piss head behaviour types out they also kill..Anyway atb ps I think I have been around long enough now and over the years up till now am pretty much aware of what goes on but as your"debater?",said "Theyre handing it out at the schoolgates now",I personaly have never seen or known this ?although for many years I walked to school with the kids"

Thanks!

You may be on to something with the parapsychology - you wouldn't believe how many people have this ability when it comes to the book: perhaps the book is the power source?

[Guest manusf3a]

Thanks!

You may be on to something with the parapsychology - you wouldn't believe how many people have this ability when it comes to the book: perhaps the book is the power source?

Could be ,it seems to have sparked off this ability in a large number of people?atb manus.