"thinking Aloud" R4 29th March 4.00pm

[Guest]

This sounds very interesting..........from todays The Guide, Guardian Newspaper

" The northern soul scene of the 1970's involved a purist approach to life: complete with its own uniform, rituals, drugs, set of codes and of course music, it was something of a secret society and the Wigan Casino was it's mecca. Laurie Taylor speaks to Andy Wilson , author of Northern Soul: Drug Use, Crime And Social Identity In The 1970's about how the scene shaped the behaviour of those that adhered to it."

4 -4.30pm Radio 4 29th March

[soulfulsaint]

This sounds very interesting..........from todays The Guide, Guardian Newspaper

" The northern soul scene of the 1970's involved a purist approach to life: complete with its own uniform, rituals, drugs, set of codes and of course music, it was something of a secret society and the Wigan Casino was it's mecca. Laurie Taylor speaks to Andy Wilson , author of Northern Soul: Drug Use, Crime And Social Identity In The 1970's about how the scene shaped the behaviour of those that adhered to it."

4 -4.30pm Radio 4 29th March

Yes its based on academic writing by former York/Wigan boy Andy Wilson. I'm also in the London studio with him too. If any Soul Sourcer would like me to sneak in an obscure reference, make your suggestions below. Keep them clean and within the bounds of broadcast law.

[Mike]

sounds interesting,

can someone give us a ears up closer to date

or if got further details will add it to news/events

[Blake H]

I'm pretty sure BBC radio shows are archived for a week so all can catch it.

BH

[Guest Netspeaky]

This sounds very interesting..........from todays The Guide, Guardian Newspaper

" The northern soul scene of the 1970's involved a purist approach to life: complete with its own uniform, rituals, drugs, set of codes and of course music, it was something of a secret society and the Wigan Casino was it's mecca. Laurie Taylor speaks to Andy Wilson , author of Northern Soul: Drug Use, Crime And Social Identity In The 1970's about how the scene shaped the behaviour of those that adhered to it."

4 -4.30pm Radio 4 29th March

No doubt the DRUGS USE will be one of the main features, instead of the MUSIC, sorry but I don't hold with the media perception of what went on in Wigan. Being on the Soul scene since the early 70's I have never taken drugs in my life, and I know as many who followed this line as well, yes I know people who did and still do drugs, and that's their choice, but the northern scene is no more a drugs scene than any other scene. I went to the CASINO for one thing THE MUSIC, not fashion, culture or drugs.

[soulfulsaint]

No doubt the DRUGS USE will be one of the main features, instead of the MUSIC, sorry but I don't hold with the media perception of what went on in Wigan. Being on the Soul scene since the early 70's I have never taken drugs in my life, and I know as many who followed this line as well, yes I know people who did and still do drugs, and that's their choice, but the northern scene is no more a drugs scene than any other scene. I went to the CASINO for one thing THE MUSIC, not fashion, culture or drugs.

Don't worry that point will be forceably made promise

[Guest]

" The northern soul scene of the 1970's involved a purist approach to life: complete with its own uniform, rituals, drugs, set of codes and of course music

I dont ever remember doing any Rituals? did anyone do rituals and did they work for you?

Edited March 26, 2006 by Mr M

[Winnie :-)]

" The northern soul scene of the 1970's involved a purist approach to life: complete with its own uniform, rituals, drugs, set of codes and of course music

=============

I dont ever remember doing any Rituals? did anyone do rituals and did they work for you?

==============

Think most guys sacrificed their c**k

Soz I'll get my goat

winnie;)

[Guest martyn]

==============

Think most guys sacrificed their c**k

Soz I'll get my goat

winnie;)

............

[Guest]

............

I might ritulistickalilly get my head down for a few hours kip on a Saturday afternon But ide deffinately remember if ide done a chicken or 2

[Gasher]

Think most guys sacrificed their c**k

SEE THERE YOU GO ..THAT BLOODY AMPHETAMINE REFRENCES AGAIN..

AND TO THINK ALL THE BOYS THAT STOOD TRYING TO PISS

FOR HALF AN HOUR WITH NO LUCK.

IT WASNT THAT THEY COULDNT PISS THEY JUST COULDNT FIND THE WINKIE.

GOOD OLD PENILE SHRINKAGE..I THINK IM STILL SUFFERING FROM IT NOW..

[Guest]

............

Could you say packing your Bag for the nighter was a Ritual?

Or having to Get your thumb and hitch it if there was no lift to save money for records!

Or the ritulistic wait at Victoria for the train to Wigan?

I wouldnt have ever considered no sex before a nighter like a boxer but maybe a few did abstain?

Ritual Baffling

[Guest Martin Coleman]

Yes its based on academic writing by former York/Wigan boy Andy Wilson. I'm also in the London studio with him too. If any Soul Sourcer would like me to sneak in an obscure reference, make your suggestions below. Keep them clean and within the bounds of broadcast law.

OK, in keeping with another SS thread "Ficticious Soul Bands", how about you sneak in a reference to a ficticious soul club. For example, "popular clubs included Wigan's Casino, Stoke's Golden Torch, Manchester's Twisted Wheel and Cirencester's Silver Spoon".

If we all hold the line, perhaps we can get a place for "The Spoon" in Northern Soul folklore. (I think we owe it to all the old "Spooners", that like myself, drove, hitched or even walked to this great little club)

[Guest Baz]

Yes its based on academic writing by former York/Wigan boy Andy Wilson. I'm also in the London studio with him too. If any Soul Sourcer would like me to sneak in an obscure reference, make your suggestions below. Keep them clean and within the bounds of broadcast law.

Hows about a mention of the current scene, somthing that goes completely untouched in the media world

[Guest]

OK, in keeping with another SS thread "Ficticious Soul Bands", how about you sneak in a reference to a ficticious soul club. For example, "popular clubs included Wigan's Casino, Stoke's Golden Torch, Manchester's Twisted Wheel and Cirencester's Silver Spoon".

If we all hold the line, perhaps we can get a place for "The Spoon" in Northern Soul folklore. (I think we owe it to all the old "Spooners", that like myself, drove, hitched or even walked to this great little club)

It was the only way of getting there being right on the Fringes of Cirencester

You had another 11 mile bus journey from the railway , last bus was at 9.15!! (bit early)

and no one stopped for you on that road unless you had a goat with you?

Luckly there were enough fellow soulies willing to stop and give you a lift,They'de know your Bag!

Knew you was in the pocket and where you was at Cheers to all the guys who gave me a lift ,

Solid soulies ,Solid Cirencester Silver Spoon!

[Guest]

Hows about a mention of the current scene, somthing that goes completely untouched in the media world

Do you mean the -you can leave your Fags ,Drinks,Mobile ,Credit cards,and wallet on the table while you go and have a dance and they will still be there when you get back Scene or-

Ive never seen a fight or heard of anybody getting there drinks spiked at a soul night Scene.

Anyone trying to peddal drugs would last about 30 seconds !

(personally never ever have i been offered or had anyone try to push drugs my way at a soul night)

But loads of that goes on in pubs and clubs allover the country every night and more so at weekends.

Yes it passed over from the mod scene uppers Amphet etc the later sixties was Acid and pot

Amphetamine being an obvious candidate for keeping you up!

But hey hold on a minute just how many women were prescribed these types for weight loss,lethargy etc!

Many ordinary everyday women and men up and down the country became hooked on them.

Valiums Barbs Etc! Screwed up loads of people!

Yes using words like Ritual and drugs to suggest a darker side is a bit of a misnomer to pull you in

to a shady link which is not really reflective of the Scene especially today!

[Guest Martin Coleman]

It was the only way of getting there being right on the Fringes of Cirencester

You had another 11 mile bus journey from the railway , last bus was at 9.15!! (bit early)

and no one stopped for you on that road unless you had a goat with you?

Luckly there were enough fellow soulies willing to stop and give you a lift,They'de know your Bag!

Knew you was in the pocket and where you was at Cheers to all the guys who gave me a lift ,

Solid soulies ,Solid Cirencester Silver Spoon!

Ah, the memories eh, Mr M?

CSSSC - Keep the Spoon Shining!

[Guest]

Ah, the memories eh, Mr M?

CSSSC - Keep the Spoon Shining!

No Spooning for me i forgot it was mothering sunday! again,

Hopeless on remembering what day it is ?

a result of a misspent youth?

Truth is its Bliss being Blissfully unaware but i do miss the Spooning as a result

[Guest biggles]

Well we had a "ritual" which was get in the hillman imp sharpish or be stuck in the three wheeler.......honest we almost got blown off the bloody motorway in it one night......

[soulfulsaint]

....unless there are late great entries then The Silver Spoon in Cirencester wins it will be mentioned on Radio 4 tomorrow...what a legendary club.

[Guest]

Well we had a "ritual" which was get in the hillman imp sharpish or be stuck in the three wheeler.......honest we almost got blown off the bloody motorway in it one night......

Yes they were ok those Robin Reliants,

A guy in my close has had one for the last 30 odd years still hasnt passed his test!

No Rot fibreglass bodied simple to fix and cheap to maintain motors.

Think apart from Sinclair C5s which didnt keep you dry? has been the only motor you could drive on your own on an L plate? Although illegal to drive up a windy motorway on a plate most would risk it and take it off!

Theres no equivalent for it even today!

But they were well dodgy to drive especially if you had anymore than 9 soulies in one on a night out!

Truth is though they would get you there on a teaspoon of fuel!

Great little motor!

[tone5446]

Don't forget ritually applying the Brut to a variety of body parts

[Guest]

Now Brut! that was a ritual and mandatory everywhere especially up the Cirencester!

[Winnie :-)]

Hows about a mention of the current scene, somthing that goes completely untouched in the media world

==============

I've often said this, but maybe it's because today's scene doesn't have the glamour/infamy associated with the 7Ts, and might not make good reading?

Winnie:-)

[Guest]

Don't forget ritually applying the Brut to a variety of body parts

Now Brut! that was a ritual and mandatory everywhere especially up the Cirencester!

Even now if I see Brut for sale I just have to have a sniff

[Winnie :-)]

....unless there are late great entries then The Silver Spoon in Cirencester wins it will be mentioned on Radio 4 tomorrow...what a legendary club.

=============

Has everyone forgotten 'the wounded gnu' in Kent, a little known nighter in the early 7Ts, characterised by the badge with the guy sitting in a tree playing the banjo?

Winnie;)

Thanks to Neil Marsh

Even now if I see Brut for sale I just have to have a sniff

==========

My Mum still bought me soap on a rope, f**k knows where she got it from

winnie;-)

[Guest]

Even now if I see Brut for sale I just have to have a sniff

Yeah how many of us did get off on it! It was everywhere

definately loads of pushers pushing that brew

[Mandy]

Even now if I see Brut for sale I just have to have a sniff

I always wondered why you followed men around the halls with your nose out in front of you Karen

Angela and I used to have a little ritual of always going to the Wimpy Patio in Stafford for a spicy bean burger on a saturday afternoon before heading off to wherever on the evening .... yummy only bit of food we had for the weekend

[Guest]

Has everyone forgotten 'the wounded gnu' in Kent, a little known nighter in the early 7Ts, characterised by the badge with the guy sitting in a tree playing the banjo?

Winnie;)

Thanks to Neil Marsh

Had A gnu as a pet once,It wrecked me house!! Very nervous creatures.

[Jason S]

From the publisher's site:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

843922087

(hardback) £40.00 / US $69.95

Northern Soul

Drug use, crime and social identity

in the 1970s northern soul scene

Andy Wilson

(University of Sheffield)

Crime Ethnography Series

Series editors: Dick Hobbs (LSE)

and Geoffrey Pearson (Goldsmiths College)

This book provides a vivid historical

ethnography of the 1970s Northern Soul

scene, drawing on the author's personal

involvement in this as well extensive

research. The book examines how cultural

patterns and normative standards are

established through individual practices and

group interaction, and aims to show how

participants in the scene became converted

to actions that they once thought

unacceptable - for a substantial majority this

was amphetamine use, and for a minority,

opiate use and burglary.

The book shows how early social

background experiences influenced how

quickly participants started using

amphetamines and whether they

subsequently became involved in criminal

activities such as the burglary of

pharmacies, and suggests a link between

burglary of chemist shops, opiate use and

fatalities from drugs overdose. Such highrisk

behaviour is associated with previous

delinquency and early social background,

rather than the nature of involvement in the

subculture. The book shows how early life

influences have a powerful impact on

shaping social identity, attachment to the

subculture, and involvement in crime.

How and why individuals become

involved in the subculture, and the impact it

had on identity, are central themes to the

study. The findings suggest that while

involvement in the Northern Soul scene

provided valued memories and friendships, it

did not impede movement to the

conventional roles and responsibilities of

adulthood. The book concludes with a

summary of its implications for the sociology

of adolescence, subcultural theories and

deviant careers.

Contents

Introduction

1 Understanding the context

2 The Northern Soul scene

3 The people

4 Drug use - the context

5 Getting involved with drugs

6 Responding to the criminalization of drug

use

7 High-risk behaviour

8 Conclusions - a longer perspective

Bibliography

September 2006 249pp (234 x 156mm)

ISBN-10 1843922088 / ISBN-13 9781843922087

(hardback) £40.00 / US $69.95

--------------------------------------------

[Guest]

looks like a good read but a bit steep at £40!

[Winnie :-)]

From the publisher's site:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

843922087

(hardback) £40.00 / US $69.95

Northern Soul

Contents

Introduction

1 Understanding the context

2 The Northern Soul scene

3 The people

4 Drug use - the context

5 Getting involved with drugs

6 Responding to the criminalization of drug

use

7 High-risk behaviour

8 Conclusions - a longer perspective

Bibliography

September 2006 249pp (234 x 156mm)

ISBN-10 1843922088 / ISBN-13 9781843922087

(hardback) £40.00 / US $69.95

--------------------------------------------

=============

Looks really interesting

Winnie:-)

[Jason S]

looks like a good read but a bit steep at £40!

Yeah, maybe we should break into Borders in the middle of the night and nab them in keeping with the subject matter...keep the faith and all that

[Guest Netspeaky]

I went to the Casino every week, and this doesn't sound like anything me or my mates were into during this period, Load of Bollocks and @ £40 a go, he's laughing all the way to the bank, without the DRUG side of the story it wouldn't have the appeal to the masses and therefore no commercial viability. Let's face it to get drugs back in the 70's you had to know someone who was into drugs before you came across them, now they hand them out at the school gate.

Edited March 28, 2006 by Netspeaky

[Guest]

Yeah, maybe we should break into Borders in the middle of the night and nab them in keeping with the subject matter...keep the faith and all that

we would soon shift em at the nighters

[Winnie :-)]

I went to the Casino every week, and this doesn't sound like anything me or my mates were into during this period, Load of Bollocks and @ £40 a go, he's laughing all the way to the bank, without the DRUG side of the story it wouldn't have the appeal to the masses and therefore no commercial viability. Let's face it to get drugs back in the 70's you had to know someone who was into drugs before you came across them, now they hand them out at the school gate.

==========

Bit difficult to do a review on headings and a blurb. Maybe the references to burglary were more from the twisted wheel era? Won't know til the book comes out will we?

Drugs and the soul scene are synonomous IMO, so obviously it's going to be included, why sanitise it? If you buy a horror book you expect to find some horror in it, if you buy a book on N/S you'd expect to find some drug references. Looking at the blurb, it also discusses social issues, and the fact that most of us are normal outside of the nighter scene....still looks interesting to me. I'll buy it and you can borrow it when I've read it

Winnie:-)

[Jason S]

Reading the brief, I don't think the author has written (or has pretended to write) a book about the Northern soul scene per se, but rather he's written a book about the drug/criminal aspect of the Northern Soul scene from a sociological point of view as a model on which to hang his argument (which looks like it's actually a wider study than just the NS scene). I suppose he's using the NS scene as a model because that was his most telling experience of the subject he's writing about. In short, it doesn't look like 'yet another' book on NS, but a book about social behaviour, crime, subculture and group mentality etc with the author using the NS scene as the model on which he's basing his study, seeing as that's what he knows. It could just as well be written using any music subculture as the model really. And by the looks of it, this is more for academic use than mass public consumption. Does look fascinating but I'm sure the magnifying glasses will be out scrutinizing every 'definitive statement' made throughout the book.

Edited March 28, 2006 by J-Brew

[Winnie :-)]

Reading the brief, I don't think the author has written (or has pretended to write) a book about the Northern soul scene per se, but rather he's written a book about the drug/criminal aspect of the Northern Soul scene from a sociological point of view as a model on which to hang his argument (which looks like it's actually a wider study than just the NS scene). I suppose he's using the NS scene as a model because that was his most telling experience of the subject he's writing about. In short, it doesn't look like 'yet another' book on NS, but a book about social behaviour, crime, subculture and group mentality etc with the author using the NS scene as the model on which he's basing his study, seeing as that's what he knows. It could just as well be written using any music subculture as the model really. And by the looks of it, this is more for academic use than mass public consumption. Does look fascinating but I'm sure the magnifying glasses will be out scrutinizing every 'definitive statement' made throughout the book.

==============

Wonder if it will open up with...

'put the kettle on Hilda, and chuck us me gear.....'

[Guest]

and aims to show how participants in the scene became converted

to actions that they once thought unacceptable - for a substantial majority this was amphetamine use, and for a minority,

opiate use and burglary.

Pharmicies are still being turned over today but back then chemists and surgeries were done regularily with ease.

And that had been going on for years in the 60s 70s 80s need you say more

But Heroin or opiates was pretty rare to see in stark contrast to todays society.

I certainly never saw any needles and yes there may have been some smack heads in a nighter but i never saw it or them.

Thing was back then it was not the norm to dance through the night at a club!

And then to actually be travelling Miles from your home town of course parents got worried about what you were up to!

As they found out more about where you were going ,Drugs was an association that was whispered to be involved with a nighter and there was no getting away from that suggestion.

But there was never a hint that you wasnt safe at a nighter!

You would for the most part be playing your soul in the bedroom through the week parents would hear your bag and often liked the sounds!

If you took Speed at the nighter that would be it until the next one unlike

All those middle aged overweight men & women that had it prescribed by the doc only to have them coming back after a week of 3 a day complaining of insomnia! to then be given barbs as a double wammy!

Cant sleep doc or find anyone to talk to in the middle of the night! Here try some Temazapan and a couple of Mogodons youll be allright in a week or two!

Loads was on this regime for years suffering palpatations Agrophobia and severe withdrawl if stopped ! So the Docs just kept them on the stuff!

No connection to NS with those people!

Edited March 28, 2006 by Mr M

[Guest]

Even now if I see Brut for sale I just have to have a sniff

Never taken drugs but the smell of Brut used to send me crazy

[Modernsoulsucks]

Had A gnu as a pet once,It wrecked me house!! Very nervous creatures.

[Guest Martin Coleman]

=============

Has everyone forgotten 'the wounded gnu' in Kent, a little known nighter in the early 7Ts, characterised by the badge with the guy sitting in a tree playing the banjo?

Winnie;)

If I remember correctly, The Gnu always clashed with The Spoon with both being held on the first Friday of every month. Being solid CSSSC, I never went. However, the couple of killer banjo instrumentals that were always played at the start of any Gnu allniter ("the 2 after 12") will go down in NS history. When was the last time anyone heard them out anywhere, though?

[Guest]

I always wondered why you followed men around the halls with your nose out in front of you Karen

Angela and I used to have a little ritual of always going to the Wimpy Patio in Stafford for a spicy bean burger on a saturday afternoon before heading off to wherever on the evening .... yummy only bit of food we had for the weekend

Its not my nose they got to watch for, it's what my hands are doing

[Guest]

Sometimes i talk crap!!

Edited March 28, 2006 by ken

[Guest]

("the 2 after 12") will go down in NS history. When was the last time anyone heard them out anywhere, though?

Heres the lyrics of one of them Ken!

https://www.poppyfields.net/poppy/songs/gnu.html

Edited March 28, 2006 by Mr M

[Guest]

("the 2 after 12") will go down in NS history. When was the last time anyone heard them out anywhere, though?

Heres the lyrics of one of them Ken!

https://www.poppyfields.net/poppy/songs/gnu.html

.

[Guest rachel]

On now... (although not onto the NS bit yet)

[Guest Martin Coleman]

Just listened to the programme, and thought that Andy and Stuart came over very well. Emphasised that NS was a current scene, downplayed the drugs and showed a real passion for the music. It was just a shame that the interview was so short. Big thumbs up from me. What did everyone else think?

[Modernsoulsucks]

I listened. Bit of a mish-mash as it was difficult to tell from the interview what salient points the presenter and Andy Wilson were trying to make and Stuart did kinda derail any notion that it was a drugs thing by bringing it back to the music whenever he could. Definitely not enough time allowed to do the subject justice.

It would have been interesting to maybe explore our attitudes to recreational drugs as the media would have us believe that it's a "problem" with youth culture to a large extent. We ain't been part of that for a long time.

I know when my wife and I found out that her daughter was smoking pot we were concerned but only because she was turning into a bloody hippie.!!

[Guest Matt Male]

I was driving home and suddenly Rufus Lumley comes out of nowhere, anyway i swerved to avoid him and switched on R4's Thinking Aloud...

I thought it was pretty good. Laurie Taylor seemed genuinely interested and couldn't get over the fact that he'd never come across northern before. Stuart was particularly good but it was a bit rushed with everybody trying to have his say and could have done with a half hour slot.