Tiaras On Barry

[The Milk Man]

Here is a Canadian pressing of the Tiaras on Barry - Where Does All The Time Go / All I Ever Need Is You

Interested in finding more information about this 45? Sweet soul backed with a dancer. I've had a word with a few people about this 45 and doesn't seem to be that well known. Recently compiled on a Sitting In The Park mix.

Where Does All The Time Go: https://www.divshare.com/download/21380053-6bb

All I Ever Need Is You: https://www.divshare.com/download/21380063-54f

Edited December 8, 2012 by The Milk Man

[Dave Pinch]

is the same tiara`s that did the rare op-art 45 shame its not as good

[Roburt]

These have to be the people involved with that 45 (which appears to be totally Canadian in origin) .....

..... Toronto group the Tiaras and Toronto based writer / arranger / producer Al Rain ......

[Roburt]

What Tim Brown had to say ..................

Pat Hervey is a white Canadian artist (still alive to this day) often likened to Brenda Lee but who occasionally veered towards black music (apparently she recorded a version of Mitty Collier’s ‘Pain’ that I’ve yet to hear). By the later 60s, she was signed to Stan Klees’ Red Leaf label (which has a Northern sound by the Charmaines on it). Nothing came of her time with the label and this Toronto artist moved to Vancouver in 1969. Before doing this, she did a moonlight session as part of a one-off girl group THE TIARAS with a release on Op-Art which sank out of sight immediately. That Hervey was signed to another label hardly helped matters. And that was that until my one-time apprentice Andy Dyson turned a copy of the Op-Art single up about 8 or 9 years ago, duly reporting to my office with said vinyl for sale. The record was entitled ‘Surprise’ and was coupled with ‘Foolish Girl’. To be honest on the day the tracks seemed a little lightweight and I refused the offer of the disc. Since that time brother Dyson came up 4 more copies — all from the same source and as it happened, a source known to Martin Koppel. No more copies have been located and the record’s Canadian origins will surely ensure that it will remain very rare indeed.

[The Milk Man]

Thanks for the information lads, very informative! In terms of value, would anyone have a suggestion? Found a couple of auction prices but no sign of a private sale

[Pete S]

Pat Hervey is a white Canadian artist (still alive to this day) often likened to Brenda Lee but who occasionally veered towards black music

Had a very obscure single issued here on President circa 1968. Think it's called "Can't get you out of my head".

[The Milk Man]

These have to be the people involved with that 45 (which appears to be totally Canadian in origin) .....

..... Toronto group the Tiaras and Toronto based writer / arranger / producer Al Rain ......

Cheers Roburt, where did you come across this info? Interesting read

[Roburt]

Cheers Roburt, where did you come across this info? Interesting read

Both pieces are out of Billboard (the foreign music section).

[Roburt]

Another member of the group was Brenda Russell ............

..... Brenda Russell was born to musical parents,(her father Gus was a one-time member of The Ink Spots. She spent her early years in Canada after moving to Hamilton, Ontario, age 12. As a teenager she began performing in local bands. Brenda was recruited to sing in a Toronto-based girl group called The Tiaras along with Jackie Richardson. The group's ONE single (WRONG), "Where Does All The Time Go" was released on Barry Records in 1968 and sunk without a trace in to obscurity. In her late teens she joined the Toronto production of Hair, during which time she had begun to play the piano.

[Roburt]

On the net it states that ...............

.... The Tiaras members were Jackie Richardson, Brenda Russell, Colina Phillips and Arlene Trotman .....

............ here's a picture of them that dates back to when their Barry 45 was released in 1968 ....

... all black & no Pat Hervey listed (though she could have sung on the Op-Art 45 as a 'guest' member).

Seems that they appeared on a Canadian CTV show "A Go Go '66" (later renamed "It's Happening)"

Gigi & the Charmaines were based in Toronto at the same time, so the two outfits probably knew each other.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Seems that they had a 3rd 45 release ...............

[Pete S]

Another member of the group was Brenda Russell ............

..... during which time she had begun to play the piano.

In the dark?

[Roburt]

In the dark?

No Pete, she only learnt to play the piano in the dark much later on.

[Dazz]

Had a very obscure single issued here on President circa 1968. Think it's called "Can't get you out of my head".

Hi Pete

It's called 'Can't get you out of my mind' my copy is on Canadian President but it was also issued on Canadian AME

Trust you are well BTW

[George G]

Seems that they had a 3rd 45 release ...............

Is this confirmed or just speculation? I have this record, its female funk, sounds 1970-ish. Another record I've had for probably 30 years.

[Chalky]

The Pat Hervey President 45 has the Tiaras on the credits.

"Can't Get You Out Of My Mind" b/w "Givin In" by Pat Hervey With The Tiaras & Art Snider. Written by Al Rain who also wrote the Op Art and Barry 45's. Same publisher as well, Traika Music.

Not so sure the Tiaras on New Sound is the same group? Apart from the name there is no other connection which is odd when all the other discs have a connection.

[Guest Owen Conway]

nothing to do with Rita is it?

[Chalky]

nothing to do with Rita is it?

nope

[Roburt]

Because of their involvement with other Canadian acts, much of the Tiaras work is well documented in Canadian music circles ....

..... A popular Canadian group in the early '60's was EG Smith & the Express. On January 1st, 1967; rival R & B/soul act Eddie Spencer & The Power (who had formed around 3 months earlier) decided to ditch their frontman Eddie Spencer and guitarist Les Morris and chose the Express's Grant Smith (vocals) and Jim Pauley to replace them. Effectively, members were dropped from each group, just one ‘new’ outfit rising from the ashes. As EG Smith & the Power (soon to become Grant Smith & the Power), the new band quickly established themselves as one of the top R & B acts on Toronto's club circuit. On June 16^th, 1967 they played Whitby Arena (Whitby, Ontario) in conjunction with James & Bobby Purify plus Shawne Jackson. They then secured two months live work in the US (summer 1967), but their line-up continued to evolve. Whilst in the US, the band was offered a record deal with MGM (via Tony Orlando). They were soon topping the charts with their only hit -- a remake of the Spencer Davis song "Keep On Running" (released January 1968 - Boo Records in Canada). Their 2nd single featured the Al Rain penned songs "Thinkin' 'Bout You / You Got What I Want". These tracks were recorded in Art Snider's Toronto studio with backing vocals by the Tiaras (Jackie Richardson, Brenda Russell, Colina Phillips and Arlene Trotman). Both songs featured the contributions of guest saxophonist Steve Kennedy.

More personnel changes took place but Grant Smith & the Power were soon opening shows in Toronto for the likes of the Hollies and Spanky & Our Gang. They returned to the US to support Janis Joplin, Rare Earth and Traffic but members continued to quit and be replaced. After their return to Canada (summer 1968), Steve Kennedy was asked to formally join them (he walked out on Eric Mercury & the Soul Searchers to do so). The new line-up recorded the tracks that were to form the group’s only album in November 1968 (their earlier singles also making the LP).

Canadian web sites state that the Tiaras 3rd Canadian single ("Right On") is by the same group.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Roburt

[Jez Jones]

..always liked this one from Pat Hervey....dont think the Tiaras are credited on the label. This recorded in New York by all accounts

Edited December 5, 2012 by jez jones

[Chalky]

Canadian web sites state that the Tiaras 3rd Canadian single ("Right On") is by the same group.

Which websites John? Do they have any other info?

[boba]

The internet is 100% true in Canada.

The New Sound 45 is a Benton Harbor, MI record. It's about twice as far from Detroit to Toronto. I guess it's possible with more evidence than "a canadian website".

The Op Art group do have another single on the New Music label.

[Roburt]

Grant Smith & the Powers MGM 45 cut "Thinkin About You" is quite a decent blue-eyed soul track (with a bit of a 'Foundations' feel to it at the start) .....

........ the track was written & (is credited on the label as being) produced by Al Rain ..........

Al Rain who still lives in Toronto said this about the cut ..... The tracks were done here at Sound Canada, produced by John Irvine (great guy). John ,Brian Ayer & I went to N.Y. to meet Tony Orlando who was A&R man at MGM. They loved the record & offered me a contract which was shortlived because of finances, I'm told.

....... and the Tiaras add backing vocals to good effect ........

"You Got What I Want" is more messy but still has a very R&B feel to it.

More about Grant Smith & the Power ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_Smith_%26_The_Power

Edited December 5, 2012 by Roburt

[Russ Vickers]

Anyone with a copy of this for sale please get in touch, I have been looking for this 45, so would make a great Xmas gift to me, depending on price.

Thank you

Russ

[Guest Dr Pickles]

I've got a copy of Love's Made A Connection on Seton by a group called the Tiaras.

Same group?

Cheers

Doc

[The Milk Man]

Russ, which 45 are you after? I currently have the Tiaras on Barry up for sale. Cheers

[boba]

I've got a copy of Love's Made A Connection on Seton by a group called the Tiaras.

Same group?

Cheers

Doc

different group, that group is the LA group that also recorded on Dore. There also is an unrelated group that recorded two records on Valiant, and a detroit group produced by Dale Warren called the Tiares on Leona.

[boba]

Recently compiled on a Sitting In The Park mix.

I've heard those are really good

[boba]

I bought the Pat Hervey 45 on ebay (kind of weak in my opinion) and the (Canadian) seller said the Tiaras were backing. I asked how he knew and he said he was working with them on some project or something.

[Chalky]

I've got a copy of Love's Made A Connection on Seton by a group called the Tiaras.

Same group?

Cheers

Doc

different group, that group is the LA group that also recorded on Dore.

They are the Tiaras that sang with Rita in answer to a previous question.

[Guest Dr Pickles]

They are the Tiaras that sang with Rita in answer to a previous question.

Chalky / Boba - many thanks for the info.

Doc

[Roburt]

Pat Hervey ........ doesn't look very funky IMO ........

[Chalky]

The internet is 100% true in Canada.

The New Sound 45 is a Benton Harbor, MI record. It's about twice as far from Detroit to Toronto. I guess it's possible with more evidence than "a canadian website".

The Op Art group do have another single on the New Music label.

I agree Bob it cold be possible but like you I would need more than a Canadian website said so.

[Dysonsoul]

The guy who originally found the op-art 45 for me sent a couple of copies of the Barry 45 also (have played it out the odd time) when the op-art 45 started to get some play i got onto my mate to try find another (he pointed out that it had to be rare it was the first copy he'd had in some thirty odd years of digging in canada)eventually he sourced the odd few copies which on the whole came from long time canadian label collectors who wanted decent money for them.I think maybe 7 copies or so came along, but none for some years now apart from the odd one here and there.When i showed interest in other copies my mate did lots of research and found Al Rains who was successful in another line of work - also it turns out a nice guy and still sharp.He sent a full history and listings in connection with the Tiaras,which i #m struggling to find (need it for the book) but remember that the song was written for a lollipop advert at the time -there is a promo leaflet too which is with the other literature (imagine how rare one of the lollies would be ha) There was also another 45 by the Tiaras which he sent which is undocumented that i play covered sometimes (Barry) The Right On 45 was also sent over too,maybe 3 or 4 of those and am sure they are all connected but can't confirm till i find the paperwork.Incidently Browny did buy the op-art 45 when i got another spare and after being relieved of a fair few grand a classic Timmy comment was "really it's like a weak mary wells record!)

[boba]

I'm an idiot, in soul harmony singles we have a listing for a benton harbor record on "the new sound of revere music" and then have the exact same record under the canada (Toronto) group under "new music". I think the Toronto group listing came from some canada webpage, the same one people googled to uncover the cover-up.

On the positive side for me, I have the "right on" record so all I need now is the Op-art record. One less record to collect...

[Roburt]

When chasing down info on 45's to try to establish where they were cut / released (city of origin, etc), you are often stymied by the guys involved having names such as Smith, Jones or Brown. Such names make finding out which part of the US (Canada) these guys worked from almost impossible.

However, with the tuva side of the "Right On" 45 we have a Jerry Joung heavily involved.

With a name like his, it shouldn't be too hard to determine where he usually worked .... but till now, I've failed to find where he was based.

Can you search for composers / song titles with SOCAN ??

Edited December 6, 2012 by Roburt

[Pete S]

When chasing down info on 45's to try to establish where they were cut / released (city of origin, etc), you are often stymied by the guys involved having names such as Smith, Jones or Brown. Such names make finding out which part of the US (Canada) these guys worked from almost impossible.

However, with the tuva side of the "Right On" 45 we have a Jerry Joung heavily involved.

With a name like his, it shouldn't be too hard to determine where he usually worked .... but till now, I've failed to find where he was based.

Can you search for composers / song titles with SOCAN ??

Might be e typo - Joung / Young?

[boba]

Andy Dyson already said above that someone involved with the record sent him all 3 45s (Barry, Op-art, new sound)

[Guest]

There also is an unrelated group that recorded two records on Valiant...

...of which one of the releases also came out in Canada on WB

'Hey Senor' had a few spins at the 100 Club many moons ago...haunting organ work and a filthy sax break!!

[Guest]

Grant Smith & the Powers MGM 45 cut "Thinkin About You"

Always liked this one...fantastic bouncy organ work all the way through...almost like a Carolinas recording...you gotta love thise chimes as well!

Was a minor Casino spin (not sure of year) and seems to be on (at least) three MGM label designs:

black stock = Canadian press

blue/gold stock = US press

yellow demo = US West Coast (Monarch)

...any more...was there an East Coast/Mid-West US vinyl press, or a Canadian demo?

[Guest]

...tracks were recorded in Art Snider's Toronto studio with backing vocals by the Tiaras (Jackie Richardson, Brenda Russell, Colina Phillips and Arlene Trotman). Both songs featured the contributions of guest saxophonist Steve Kennedy.

More personnel changes took place but Grant Smith & the Power were soon opening shows in Toronto for the likes of the Hollies and Spanky & Our Gang. They returned to the US to support Janis Joplin, Rare Earth and Traffic but members continued to quit and be replaced. After their return to Canada (summer 1968), Steve Kennedy was asked to formally join them (he walked out on Eric Mercury & the Soul Searchers to do so).

So, I wonder if Steve Kennedy was the sax player blowing hard on Eric Mercury's, 'Lonely Girl'? This disc has been rumoured to be a Canadian recording and/or press for a long time. Anyone know for sure the truth behind the SAC label...off on a tangent, I appreciate.

[Guest Rocketstail]

On the net it states that ...............

.... The Tiaras members were Jackie Richardson, Brenda Russell, Colina Phillips and Arlene Trotman .....

............ here's a picture of them that dates back to when their Barry 45 was released in 1968 ....

... all black & no Pat Hervey listed (though she could have sung on the Op-Art 45 as a 'guest' member).

Seems that they appeared on a Canadian CTV show "A Go Go '66" (later renamed "It's Happening)"

Gigi & the Charmaines were based in Toronto at the same time, so the two outfits probably knew each other.

That's the promo photo I got from a booking agency back in about 1968. It is a pretty rare promo as far as I know. So how many 45's of The Tiaras have you guys found now? 

[Guest penny]

Pat herveys version of mitty collier is great, its on that lp with the un-funky cover.

Sure I've got or had a tiaras 45 called mr wise guy on 3d

Edited October 14, 2013 by penny

[Guest Rocketstail]

Pat herveys version of mitty collier is great, its on that lp with the un-funky cover.

Sure I've got or had a tiaras 45 called mr wise guy on 3d

This is probably a NYC area Tiaras and that record is listed as being from 1959. There are other Tiaras 45s from 1963 (2) but this group is Canadian. We are discussing this on a Toronto facebook page now with those that knew the group back when they were together.

[Calvinlee]

I've got a copy of Love's Made A Connection on Seton by a group called the Tiaras.

Same group?

Cheers

Doc

was wondering about that, trying to think about when I had a conversation with ginger about his copy

[Tony Smith]

was wondering about that, trying to think about when I had a conversation with ginger about his copy

No, that IS Tiaras as in Rita & .... from the west coast.

[Gold Band]

What does the start of Mr Wise Guy remind you of? cause its buggin the life out of me. First 25 secs below.

[Sebastian]

On 10/19/2013 at 19:24, Gold Band said:

What does the start of Mr Wise Guy remind you of? cause its buggin the life out of me. First 25 secs below

 

"Tequila" by The Champs, and a hundred other tunes.

[Gold Band]

"Tequila" by The Champs, and a hundred other tunes.

 

Thanks Sebastian, At first it was the Papa OOOhh that was throwing me & I had it in my head its was one of the something "walks" dance tracks but at least you've put me out of my misery