Progressive Northern

[Winnie :-)]

Reading through Joel 90's thread, there were references to 'newly found northern' and progressive northern. Also we keep hearing about upfront northern....can anybody give a difinitive description of it? Is it brand new? I remember talking to Dave Flynn a few years ago, during the Dome's hey-day and he was pretty sure most records had been played at some time or other and rejected, because they didn't fit the scene at the time. What I'd like to know really is.....this progressive thing, is it all new discoverys, or is it the previously rejected records, how much new stuff is really coming through?

The impression I have is that there is not really much new stuff filtering through, and rather than a progressive scene, it's a reactivation thing.

Any comments??

Winnie:-)

[Guest Soultown andy]

At last someone with a bit of sense proggresive my arse,its 60 and 70s for fucks sake

[Guest Stuart T]

There are some new sounds being played, some previously unissued, some that have possibly never been played at major venues at least, also taste have moved on (RnB for instance, I know its not your bag and a lot of it isn't mine either). Its hard to provide a hard and fast category though as there will be people with 30 or more years of going to clubs who will hear a record that they have never heard whilst someone else will come out with "such and such played that years ago".

I think what "progressive" alludes to is playing less well known or less often played records, even well known pieces that just haven't been heard for years. Its not safe to claim that something has never been played, because nobody was ever at every club all the time. I think that persons who want to here these other sounds (me included) are probably a minority (albeit a vocal one) and have to accept that even if you want to be "progressive" there are few clubs (the CSC at The Dome included) where you can get away with playing back to back "new" (or records not well nown to the crowd in front of you) and you have to fit them in carefully as you can around things that people will know.

Fair dos if someone can get away with playing a set of records that nobody in that particular room knows without upsetting people, whether they've been played before or not, but you'd have to be brave to try it! Unless you're in a club set up specifically for that purpose or a room set aside for it. But reckon its healthy to get some newer, revived or less played sounds into a set. I was looking at a set list that was described as "something for everyone, some well knowns newies, some oldies and some unknowns" because I wanted to ask which records were the unknown ones but then realised that for that DJ and for the people he was DJing to perhaps they were unknown. So the person in question was probably being "progressive" and its not an objective standard.

Clear as mud eh?

[Jumpinjoan]

The term 'progressive' as regards the soul scene to me means that the scene is moving forward ... playing different sounds, new to some ... known to others, as opposed to standing still ... in the same old rut of the same old records.

That to me is just like going to the cinema every week .... and watching the same film ... every single week.

EVERY record was a NEW record the FIRST time you heard it .... every single one.

[Paul-s]

The term 'progressive' as regards the soul scene to me means that the scene is moving forward ... playing different sounds, new to some ... known to others, as opposed to standing still ... in the same old rut of the same old records.

That to me is just like going to the cinema every week .... and watching the same film ... every single week.

EVERY record was a NEW record the FIRST time you heard it .... every single one.

[Paul-s]

Great summary Joan!.......................just not hearing the same tunes over and over again, sometimes 2 or 3 times in one night. Having the sense of anticipation and excitement ,that at some point in a dj's set you will hear something that you had forgotten about. Or, even better, you will hear something for 'the first time'.....something that will grab your soul and give it a new life.!! Put a contented smile on your face....!!

paul-s

[Guest Dan]

they're all oldies, 99.9% of them have been played somewhere by someone by now. there's a few bits and pieces but basically it's just various categories of oldies:

oldies everyone has heard a million times

oldies nearly everyone has heard a million times

oldies nearly everyone has heard nearly a million times

oldies most people haven't heard for a while

oldies most people haven't heard for a long while

oldies most people haven't heard for a very long while

oldies most people can just about remember

oldies 50% of people can't remember

oldies most people can't remember

oldies played at massive venues

oldies played at small venues

and so on and so on and so on until we all die of death, basically.

the worst term, for me, is 'upfront'. whenever you see it you can almost see the smug look on the face of whoever typed it...'i'm upfront, me. what are you?'

[Dave Moore]

the worst term, for me, is 'upfront'. whenever you see it you can almost see the smug look on the face of whoever typed it...'i'm upfront, me. what are you?'

[Guest]

Pretatyn had underplayed stuff goin down in the redemption but no one was in there. Wonder where everyone woz that didnt wont to ear the same stuff then.

[Guest Baz]

Pretatyn had underplayed stuff goin down in the redemption but no one was in there. Wonder where everyone woz that didnt wont to ear the same stuff then.

That was on the sat afternoon wasn't it?

[Codfromderby]

Reading through Joel 90's thread, there were references to 'newly found northern' and progressive northern. Also we keep hearing about upfront northern....can anybody give a difinitive description of it? Is it brand new? I remember talking to Dave Flynn a few years ago, during the Dome's hey-day and he was pretty sure most records had been played at some time or other and rejected, because they didn't fit the scene at the time. What I'd like to know really is.....this progressive thing, is it all new discoverys, or is it the previously rejected records, how much new stuff is really coming through?

The impression I have is that there is not really much new stuff filtering through, and rather than a progressive scene, it's a reactivation thing.

Any comments??

Winnie:-)

all i can say mate is the great thing about the northern/ other type scenes is that if your like me and you first got into northern/soul/funk/ etc in the early 70,s its great that you can still hear "new" oldies either when your out, on this site, or still on occaision (for me)buying records blind, i have just recently got a copy of "the record" by ben e king on atco, i have been aware of the song for 30 years but because it was a cheapie took no notice of it, however when i heard it out it was like the first time i,d heard landslide and it blew me away footnote to this is the same dj played cut your motor off by black nasty and it then bought me back to earth as all forgotten oldies are not good (imho) and its now some 30 odd years after i first went to a soul nite, and thats not including new discoveries, unissued acetates new recordings etc

[Winnie :-)]

all i can say mate is the great thing about the northern/ other type scenes is that if your like me and you first got into northern/soul/funk/ etc in the early 70,s its great that you can still hear "new" oldies either when your out, on this site, or still on occaision (for me)buying records blind, i have just recently got a copy of "the record" by ben e king on atco, i have been aware of the song for 30 years but because it was a cheapie took no notice of it, however when i heard it out it was like the first time i,d heard landslide and it blew me away footnote to this is the same dj played cut your motor off by black nasty and it then bought me back to earth as all forgotten oldies are not good (imho) and its now some 30 odd years after i first went to a soul nite, and thats not including new discoveries, unissued acetates new recordings etc

==============

The interesting thing to me is, I hear these terms, progressive, upfront etc, but the only thing that seems to actually be new is the term itself. Most of the records have probably been played as already mentioned, so what are we actually talking about here. Someone elses take on what's quality records now??

Still haven't recieved any answers on how much is actually new material, Stu has mentioned alternate takes on existing records and of course R&B, but how much of that is brand new to everyones ears?

To me it seems the terms mentioned are much more about underplayed records than brand new discoveries, which kind of begs the question "why call it upfront, or progressive"? Why not just say we don't play any of the top 500, wouldn't that cover it?

Why create a genre of music that technically doesn't exist ie: newies when that is not really a correct description of what's being played?

Winnie:-)

[Jumpinjoan]

The top 500?

What are they ... and who decided that they were....?

[Guest Matt Male]

Stu has mentioned alternate takes on existing records and of course R&B, but how much of that is brand new to everyones ears?

I think 'new to my ears' was the best description of an vibrant scene that someone suggested a while back. It's true there's probably no such thing as 60s and 70s newies anymore (like back in the early 80s). I still enjoy hearing things new to me, but i suppose they might be a played out oldie to someone else. I reckon everyone has got their own scene in their head and pity the poor guys who know every sound and never hear anything new. A friend of mine quit the scene a few years back for exactly that reason. Maybe he was just going to the wrong places, maybe he'd been around too long, maybe he needed to wait until a few reactivated oldies cropped up again, maybe he needed a break.

I keep hearing stuff 'new to my ears' and i love it. Bit of a pain in the arse though when somone says, 'Don't you remember that from Morcambe Pier?' I've always had a crap memory for sounds so the scene stays nice and fresh for me...

[Gorgeous George]

The term 'progressive' as regards the soul scene to me means that the scene is moving forward ... playing different sounds, new to some ... known to others, as opposed to standing still ... in the same old rut of the same old records.

That to me is just like going to the cinema every week .... and watching the same film ... every single week.

EVERY record was a NEW record the FIRST time you heard it .... every single one.

I agree totally the opposite of the forward movement you describe Joan, i.e. playing new stuff is stagnation!!

A festering rotting massof putrid horror!!!!!!!!!! I'll leave it there for now, point made I feel!!!!

[Guest Dan]

==============

Still haven't recieved any answers on how much is actually new material, Stu has mentioned alternate takes on existing records and of course R&B, but how much of that is brand new to everyones ears?

Winnie:-)

you have winnie

i said 99.9% was already played by someone, somewhere, which means 0.1% of the stuff being played is totally new (till it's been played of course ).

not saying i'm right in this, of course, but it's an answer. not scientific and only based on the length of time northern has been going as a scene and the number of collectors/djs/events and the law of averages.

however, if you take a random playlist and check it against other playlists on here/the internet/magazines of yore, plus manship and brown's books, there's very little that's not already about. not saying i personally know them all by the way - very far from it. i know maybe 5-10% i would say, and that's being ambitious.

[chrissie]

Reading through Joel 90's thread, there were references to 'newly found northern' and progressive northern. Also we keep hearing about upfront northern....can anybody give a difinitive description of it? Is it brand new? I remember talking to Dave Flynn a few years ago, during the Dome's hey-day and he was pretty sure most records had been played at some time or other and rejected, because they didn't fit the scene at the time. What I'd like to know really is.....this progressive thing, is it all new discoverys, or is it the previously rejected records, how much new stuff is really coming through?

The impression I have is that there is not really much new stuff filtering through, and rather than a progressive scene, it's a reactivation thing.

Any comments??

Winnie:-)

I'm glad I'm not the only one that this terminology has confused............mind you i'm easily confused. When the word progressive is used I have this sureal vision of "Black Sabbath" doing a cover of a soul track. (could be the wine of course)

Ok i'll get my coat

QoFxx

[Jumpinjoan]

I agree totally the opposite of the forward movement you describe Joan, i.e. playing new stuff is stagnation!!

A festering rotting massof putrid horror!!!!!!!!!! I'll leave it there for now, point made I feel!!!!

I'm sorry Neil old boy .... it's the blonde in me ..... you lost me somewhere around the word 'agree' ....

[Winnie :-)]

I agree totally the opposite of the forward movement you describe Joan, i.e. playing new stuff is stagnation!!

A festering rotting massof putrid horror!!!!!!!!!! I'll leave it there for now, point made I feel!!!!

==============

How is the playing of new stuff stagnation, that doesn't seem to make any sense. And festering etc, are you describing a kind of music you particularly find abhorent, if so what? Are you trying to say that oldies is the way forward? Soz, but I really don't understand the post.

Winnie:-)

[soul45s]

Pretatyn had underplayed stuff goin down in the redemption but no one was in there. Wonder where everyone woz that didnt wont to ear the same stuff then.

I was in there with some mates, some great tunes played, I know a lot of people were watching the Masqueraders who were on at the same time.

I wish Prestatyn would have a designated rare, semi known, underplayed, forgotten tunes room going all weekend, maybe next year??

[Quinvy]

I'm sorry Neil old boy .... it's the blonde in me ..... you lost me somewhere around the word 'agree' ....

Blimey, thank god for that. I've been re reading Niel's post over and over trying to decifer it. Thought I'd lost it, what the hell are you saying Neil. Aren't you a teacher?

Just to clarify an earlier point AGAIN When you are promoting an event that's trying to play "lesser known" oldies. How else can you discribe what's on offer, other than "upfront", or "real deal" and not get punters in who want to hear "VERY well known oldies". Nobody is trying to sound elitist, I don't get upset when promoters describe their events as "accross the board" or "classic oldies" On the contrary, it saves me going, and being disappointed.

I was off the scene for twenty years and judging from what I've heard since I came back, I missed the best period for new discoveries. So there's lots of stuff that's new to me. But I appreciate that it's old hat to some of you. I'm with Joan and Paul S.

[Russ Vickers]

To me the Northern Soul scene has alway's had to be 'progessive', that is what the essence of the scene was about & is about.............enterprising DJ's & Promoters finding lesser known rare soul records & bringing them to the attention of a crowd hungry to hear the latest discoveries, whether you like it or not, that is what the original venues were doing & what the original punters wanted & what the scene was built on.

Years later this is still what excites me & keeps me going to Nighters (When I'm in the UK). I appreciate that it is becoming more & more difficult for those DJ's & promoters that have this drive to keep the Northern scene moving forward with completely new discoveries & it must be a real effort & a labour of love, but my hat goes off to these people, because they are keeping the real Northern Soul scene alive, particularly when from some of the comments I hear on SS & else where they could quite easily, play the same old same old week in & week out & a lot of people would be happy & wrongly imagine that they are part of the Northern scene, well it was the f***ing 'all' oldies nighters that nearly killed the scene first time around.

You can call me what you like & if being called smug means that I prefer to stay true to what the proper Northern Soul scene is about then crack on lofty, I dont give a toss really, I'll stop up all night in my front room if I have to & play records rather than have to go to venues that are playing shite & justify this by saying any one that prefers lesser knowns is smug.

I am not knocking oldies, if thats what you like great, fair play to you, I like them myself, but I dont want them all the time, & certainly not the same ones, mix em up, keep the night interesting, oldies, newies, rarieties, sixties, seventies, Modern, Cossover & New releases too where appropriate, if people have a bit of a moan sometimes but the vast majority are happy most of the time great, let the moaners crack on at least we know they're not dead.

I have gone off slightly on a tangent here I know but to be able to keep new discoveries coming through we have to have the venues & DJ's who are prepared to stick with the true spirit of the scene & by slagging off these people who try very hard to do this kinda thing, its not helping the long term future of Northern Soul as it was intended.

Yeah & I'm a smug bastard, cos I care about the the future of the Northern Soul scene & dont want to be ridiculed as a bunch of fat old people dancing to the same thing they were 20 - 30 yrs ago. I'm still 100% passionate about this music & fortunately there are promoters, DJ's & punters out there that are too & I salute you & more power to you, its not alway's easy to do the righ thing.

Now come on then I'm ready for the smart arses to start the slagging instead of thinking of the greater good of the scene.

Smug Russ

[Guest espo]

Spot on !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Dan]

To me the Northern Soul scene has alway's had to be 'progessive', that is what the essence of the scene was about & is about.............enterprising DJ's & Promoters finding lesser known rare soul records & bringing them to the attention of a crowd hungry to hear the latest discoveries, whether you like it or not, that is what the original venues were doing & what the original punters wanted & what the scene was built on.

Years later this is still what excites me & keeps me going to Nighters (When I'm in the UK). I appreciate that it is becoming more & more difficult for those DJ's & promoters that have this drive to keep the Northern scene moving forward with completely new discoveries & it must be a real effort & a labour of love, but my hat goes off to these people, because they are keeping the real Northern Soul scene alive, particularly when from some of the comments I hear on SS & else where they could quite easily, play the same old same old week in & week out & a lot of people would be happy & wrongly imagine that they are part of the Northern scene, well it was the f***ing 'all' oldies nighters that nearly killed the scene first time around.

You can call me what you like & if being called smug means that I prefer to stay true to what the proper Northern Soul scene is about then crack on lofty, I dont give a toss really, I'll stop up all night in my front room if I have to & play records rather than have to go to venues that are playing shite & justify this by saying any one that prefers lesser knowns is smug.

I am not knocking oldies, if thats what you like great, fair play to you, I like them myself, but I dont want them all the time, & certainly not the same ones, mix em up, keep the night interesting, oldies, newies, rarieties, sixties, seventies, Modern, Cossover & New releases too where appropriate, if people have a bit of a moan sometimes but the vast majority are happy most of the time great, let the moaners crack on at least we know they're not dead.

I have gone off slightly on a tangent here I know but to be able to keep new discoveries coming through we have to have the venues & DJ's who are prepared to stick with the true spirit of the scene & by slagging off these people who try very hard to do this kinda thing, its not helping the long term future of Northern Soul as it was intended.

Yeah & I'm a smug bastard, cos I care about the the future of the Northern Soul scene & dont want to be ridiculed as a bunch of fat old people dancing to the same thing they were 20 - 30 yrs ago. I'm still 100% passionate about this music & fortunately there are promoters, DJ's & punters out there that are too & I salute you & more power to you, its not alway's easy to do the righ thing.

Now come on then I'm ready for the smart arses to start the slagging instead of thinking of the greater good of the scene.

Smug Russ

hi russ

calm down . if you're talking about my post saying people who describe themselves as upfront as smug, that's what i meant - it's just that description that kind of grates. (as does 'real deal', to my ears anyway). as for played out oldies/wanting to hear something new i've always been that way (when i was young i ran an all nighter for a couple of years and the djs were people like butch, guy hennigan, kitch, pablo, ady croasdell, val palmer, who were hardly russ winstanley...even the 'oldies' djs tended to be guys like pep, danny everard etc) and i still am. I just think that realistically they're almost all oldies now and thus it just becomes a game of one upmanship - my oldies are better than yours. which is inevitable, i guess.

phil - if you're looking for another description, how about the one you use yourself - 'lesser known oldies'?

no big deal either way, anyway - just an observation.

cheers

dan

Edited March 23, 2006 by Dan

[Guest in town Mikey]

Dan I question you statistics. As I would.

I take it you are referring to 60s and 70s material. Some clubs are playing stuf recorded in 2006! Alright i think its pretty horrible most of the time, but it is New.

I'm with the Queen on this. I remeber the Perfections coming out on Cream. Cream were prog werent they??

Another aside. When I were a lad, I used to get annoyed when i would comment ona record being popular at the Top of the World, and some vest wearing mullet would pipe up 'it got one play at t'Casino by richard'. Now I am older and have less angst I look at it like, they had the chance to hear these great sounds and preferred to listen to the Salvadores for the thousanth time. it was the Stafford, 100 club, Imber crowd that saw the quality.

So if IMO the greatest 'progressive' club was churning out reactivated records at its height, then 20 years later the 'progressive' clubs of today have even less opportunity of finding an absolute new sound from the 60s 70s or even 80s.

[Guest Dan]

some vest wearing mullet would pipe up 'it got one play at t'Casino by richard'.

So if IMO the greatest 'progressive' club was churning out reactivated records at its height, then 20 years later the 'progressive' clubs of today have even less opportunity of finding an absolute new sound from the 60s 70s or even 80s.

have to change my avatar to that for a while

agree with the rest of your post, as (almost) always mike (we seem to be agreeing even you you doubt my stats )

dan

[Guest in town Mikey]

I'm a poet and dont even know it.

I am talking to some of the Arizona boys about the war in Iraq. We dont agree. One said hail, you probably dont even like Margaret Thatcher. the UKs greatest ever Prime Minister. I have stuck him on ignore ;-)

I've not done that to you yet matey boy.

[Supercorsa]

it was the Stafford, 100 club, Imber crowd that saw the quality.

Were the Imber crowd Upfront or In-Bred?

[Guest Dan]

I'm a poet and dont even know it.

I am talking to some of the Arizona boys about the war in Iraq. We dont agree. One said hail, you probably dont even like Margaret Thatcher. the UKs greatest ever Prime Minister. I have stuck him on ignore ;-)

I've not done that to you yet matey boy.

sorry, i'm ignoring that

(can you PM me the email address of the arizonan, he sounds like my kind of boy )

[Winnie :-)]

hi russ

calm down . if you're talking about my post saying people who describe themselves as upfront as smug, that's what i meant - it's just that description that kind of grates. (as does 'real deal', to my ears anyway). as for played out oldies/wanting to hear something new i've always been that way (when i was young i ran an all nighter for a couple of years and the djs were people like butch, guy hennigan, kitch, pablo, ady croasdell, val palmer, who were hardly russ winstanley...even the 'oldies' djs tended to be guys like pep, danny everard etc) and i still am. I just think that realistically they're almost all oldies now and thus it just becomes a game of one upmanship - my oldies are better than yours. which is inevitable, i guess.

phil - if you're looking for another description, how about the one you use yourself - 'lesser known oldies'?

no big deal either way, anyway - just an observation.

cheers

dan

===============

I'm in agreement with Dan on a lot of what he says, the terms used are what annoy me more than anything. It's almost like some people are trying to create a new Wigan/Mecca/Torch where ever, so that in 10/15 years time they have their own club/clubs to site as leading the way forward.

I agree with Russ on a few things too, yes its important to keep things fresh, and for me the best way is to do across the board nights including new releases where appropriate. That's progressive IMO. Reactivating becomes a question of personal choice and how long before something reactivated becomes overplayed?

The question has to be asked, are underplayed oldies better than the top 500 on quality, or the fact that they're not played very often.

Winnie:-)

[Winnie :-)]

Yeah & I'm a smug bastard, cos I care about the the future of the Northern Soul scene & dont want to be ridiculed as a bunch of fat old people dancing to the same thing they were 20 - 30 yrs ago. I'm still 100% passionate about this music & fortunately there are promoters, DJ's & punters out there that are too & I salute you & more power to you, its not alway's easy to do the righ thing.

Now come on then I'm ready for the smart arses to start the slagging instead of thinking of the greater good of the scene.

Smug Russ

[Guest Netspeaky]

I'm suprised and also happy with the number of younger kids who were buying records over the weekend at Prestatyn, got to be good for the scene, and they don't come with the baggage that us oldies have, progress.

[Winnie :-)]

I'm suprised and also happy with the number of younger kids who were buying records over the weekend at Prestatyn, got to be good for the scene, and they don't come with the baggage that us oldies have, progress.

============

What were they buying in general though, oldies or underplayed?

[Guest Baz]

===============

I'm in agreement with Dan on a lot of what he says, the terms used are what annoy me more than anything. It's almost like some people are trying to create a new Wigan/Mecca/Torch where ever, so that in 10/15 years time they have their own club/clubs to site as leading the way forward.

Winnie:-)

Is that such a bad thing? Every generation of soulie needs a venue to call there 'church' in the 70's you had wigan, 80's had stafford and so on, there is no real major venues around any more with this out look, ok you've got your lifelines ect, but not on a very big scale, hell i would love to say in 10/15 years time i was part of a movement that was helping keep the scene fresh and exciting and would hope i can still do that in 10/15 years time

I went in the Queen Vic a number of times over the weekend, and there was a younger crowd in there in general, but they weren't dancing, isn't that the essence of appreciation Russ. I'm all for keeping the scene vibrant, but is not dancing the way forward?

Winnie:-)

That was in the pub though a much more relaxed enviroment, lights were on all the time, not exatelly a place for a good dance

You only had to go in the main room abielt past say 1ish there was plenty of the younger generation dancing and tell you what two of them IMO were the best dancers out of 3500 souls.

[Winnie :-)]

Is that such a bad thing? Every generation of soulie needs a venue to call there 'church' in the 70's you had wigan, 80's had stafford and so on, there is no real major venues around any more with this out look, ok you've got your lifelines ect, but not on a very big scale, hell i would love to say in 10/15 years time i was part of a movement that was helping keep the scene fresh and exciting and would hope i can still do that in 10/15 years time

=======================

Not a bad thing at all, but the problem that normally comes with it is a blinkered loyalty, which in my opinion leads to the demise of progression. Seen plenty of posts on here pro this era/venue and seen plenty of replies saying, stop living in the past. The self same thing will happen with the 'upfront' movement, in fact it's already happening. Claims of the best music policy, and this is the way forward are always to be found within these pages. IMO that is not a progressive view, that is people looking to create their own niche. A progressive policy to me, is what 'dodger' said in the Kings Hall thread, or what Russ said in this one. Todays underplayed oldies are tomorrows overplayed ones

================

That was in the pub though a much more relaxed enviroment, lights were on all the time, not exatelly a place for a good dance

You only had to go in the main room abielt past say 1ish there was plenty of the younger generation dancing and tell you what two of them IMO were the best dancers out of 3500 souls.

=============

I never said the younger generation wasn't dancing Baz and I never said they weren't any good I just said that in the place where predominately lesser known tracks were being played, nobody was dancing. So what if it's a bit light, if you like a record dance to it, dancing tells the DJ he's got it right. Otherwise we're only a hop and a skip away from politely applauding, and shouting bravo

[Guest Dan]

===============

The question has to be asked, are underplayed oldies better than the top 500 on quality, or the fact that they're not played very often.

Winnie:-)

yes and no, winnie, one man's meat etc etc IMO.

like i said above, there's a spectrum of sounds from those pretty much everyone has heard pretty much enough times to those you can hardly remember or don't even know (but plenty of other people do).

loads of records in the top 500 (or the 'everyone's heard loads of times' category are BRILLIANT records but you either have heard them enough times or you want to hear them less often to avoid spoiling them, is what i would say.

[Winnie :-)]

yes and no, winnie, one man's meat etc etc IMO.

like i said above, there's a spectrum of sounds from those pretty much everyone has heard pretty much enough times to those you can hardly remember or don't even know (but plenty of other people do).

loads of records in the top 500 (or the 'everyone's heard loads of times' category are BRILLIANT records but you either have heard them enough times or you want to hear them less often to avoid spoiling them, is what i would say.

============

Who decides what's underplayed Dan, is it the average soulie without the photographic memory, or the soulie who listens to everything and has perfect recollection. It could become more of a 'led' scene than ever before??

Winnie:-)

[Jumpinjoan]

===============

The question has to be asked, are underplayed oldies better than the top 500 on quality, or the fact that they're not played very often.

Can i ask again ..... What are the 'Top 500' you keep going on about ..... and who decided they were?

[Guest Jamie]

the worst term, for me, is 'upfront'. whenever you see it you can almost see the smug look on the face of whoever typed it...'i'm upfront, me. what are you?'

I'll drink to that

I'll admit that I don't know my arse from my elbow, but some people who use the term 'upfront' generally mean 'expensive price tag'. I've seen playlists claiming to be to be the former, but in reality are very much the latter.

Just because it's rare doesn't necessarily equate 'upfrontness' (Yum Yums, Billy Arnell, John & Weirdest et all)

I'm just happy stumbling about in the 'hopeless drunk' pigeon hole

Jamie

[Guest Stuart T]

Can i ask again ..... What are the 'Top 500' you keep going on about ..... and who decided they were?

Mr Kevin Roberts of Sheffield wrote them down in a book and published it.

[uni ted]

i am in agreement here also,who decided the top 500,when it should have read the top 500 in my head only,same as the price guide thing,all that was self promotion and f*****d us unconnected folk with yank dealers,thanks for that.

[SteveM]

Mr Kevin Roberts of Sheffield wrote them down in a book and published it.

Kev is NOT from Sheffield Stuart. He is a Derbyshire woollyback who no doubt attached himself to Sheffield W*dn*sd*y when they were a , ahem, "big club'. (ie when they got to a cup final. And lost 3-2. God bless

Temple Trebilcock and of course, Gerry Young. Happy days.)

[Guest Stuart T]

Kev is NOT from Sheffield Stuart. He is a Derbyshire woollyback who no doubt attached himself to Sheffield W*dn*sd*y when they were a , ahem, "big club'. (ie when they got to a cup final. And lost 3-2. God bless

Temple Trebilcock and of course, Gerry Young. Happy days.)

Sorry Steve, I didn't realise that. Beyond Farringdon Tube Station I'm a bit at sea. I did hear yesterday that Sheffield is being marketed as "the jewel of Yorkshire" or something, which is nice, my friend has spent almost two years commuting up there to help build something or other and says that they sell some very nice beer, but I ignore his opinion as he is in fact Welsh, although he denies it.

Are the Sheffield W-word the ones who wear the same shirts as Southampton?

[Guest Jamie]

I have gone off slightly on a tangent here I know but to be able to keep new discoveries coming through we have to have the venues & DJ's who are prepared to stick with the true spirit of the scene & by slagging off these people who try very hard to do this kinda thing, its not helping the long term future of Northern Soul as it was intended.

Yeah & I'm a smug bastard, cos I care about the the future of the Northern Soul scene & dont want to be ridiculed as a bunch of fat old people dancing to the same thing they were 20 - 30 yrs ago. I'm still 100% passionate about this music & fortunately there are promoters, DJ's & punters out there that are too & I salute you & more power to you, its not alway's easy to do the righ thing.

Now come on then I'm ready for the smart arses to start the slagging instead of thinking of the greater good of the scene.

Smug Russ

The problem is Russ, no fcuker turns up to support the venues that are trying to be different, that's the cold reality.

I, on a personal level, am very much with you on the ethos of what the way forward is musically, but time and time again the 'keyboard commandos' moan about it on forums, but don't get off their ass and pay money at the door.

We're just swimming against the tide......

Jamie

[Winnie :-)]

I'll drink to that

I'll admit that I don't know my arse from my elbow, but some people who use the term 'upfront' generally mean 'expensive price tag'. I've seen playlists claiming to be to be the former, but in reality are very much the latter.

Just because it's rare doesn't necessarily equate 'upfrontness' (Yum Yums, Billy Arnell, John & Weirdest et all)

I'm just happy stumbling about in the 'hopeless drunk' pigeon hole

Jamie

=============

I think we've established upfront is in fact underplayed oldies, so why aren't the likes of Pay your dues, Touch the rainchild, one wonderful moment played. Hardly played anywhere in 25 years, can they be classed as upfront? Or are we looking for more mid-tempo stafford kind of records that were/are underplayed? We'll get to the bottom of this unfront conundrum yet

[SteveM]

Sorry Steve, I didn't realise that. Beyond Farringdon Tube Station I'm a bit at sea. I did hear yesterday that Sheffield is being marketed as "the jewel of Yorkshire" or something, which is nice, my friend has spent almost two years commuting up there to help build something or other and says that they sell some very nice beer, but I ignore his opinion as he is in fact Welsh, although he denies it.

Are the Sheffield W-word the ones who wear the same shirts as Southampton?

No. Thats the mighty Blades. If you've never been Stuart, its a bit like New Cross or Deptford, you know, classy.

[uni ted]

the pennys dropped ,your having a laugh,one wonderful moment ehh,

[Guest Jamie]

=============

I think we've established upfront is in fact underplayed oldies, so why aren't the likes of Pay your dues, Touch the rainchild, one wonderful moment played. Hardly played anywhere in 25 years, can they be classed as upfront? Or are we looking for more mid-tempo stafford kind of records that were/are underplayed? We'll get to the bottom of this unfront conundrum yet

Yep, I'm in agreement with the handle 'upfront' and what it infers. My point was that some that have claimed to be just that have infact just played 'rare' records, irrespective of genre.

Can't really comment on your examples as I don't attend a wide spectrum of events, just the ones that appeal to me. Though I would have thought your last choice would have plenty of plays in the main rooms at Oldies events?

Perhaps the reason they don't get played is they're just shit?

Jamie

[Guest Baz]

Not a bad thing at all, but the problem that normally comes with it is a blinkered loyalty, which in my opinion leads to the demise of progression. Seen plenty of posts on here pro this era/venue and seen plenty of replies saying, stop living in the past. The self same thing will happen with the 'upfront' movement, in fact it's already happening. Claims of the best music policy, and this is the way forward are always to be found within these pages. IMO that is not a progressive view, that is people looking to create their own niche. A progressive policy to me, is what 'dodger' said in the Kings Hall thread, or what Russ said in this one. Todays underplayed oldies are tomorrows overplayed ones

I can see where your coming from there

Cant really see the point in discussing 'progression' its a natural thing and it will happen, Russ summed it up prefectly for me.............The northern soul scene IS about progression, the whole of its structure is based upon collectors seeking out rare (im using the word rare as to discribe rarely herd by any one in the 60's/70's on a public scale) soul records, and in term like minded souls gather week in week out to hear and dance to these 'rare' sounds. every thing else is just a attachment to that scene Im sure there are thousands of people who claim to be into Northern Soul, but are they actually out there making a differnce

[Guest Stuart T]

No. Thats the mighty Blades. If you've never been Stuart, its a bit like New Cross or Deptford, you know, classy.

What, full of people pretending its Greenwich? That really is pushing SE10 a bit far. I really didn't think that fried chicken and dodgy Evangelical Churches would be that popular in Yorkshire, you live and learn. I spent a bit of time at Sheffield Station one Sunday but never ventured out, there was football on and it all looked a bit hairy.