I boughta copy of 'manchesters Playboys' from some guy in the States. I got it this morning and it's been ironed, yes literally, ironed...to get a warp out. It's still massively warped, the vinyl is like a flexidisc and you can hear it bump on every rotation. So I emailed him and asked for a refund and he said..

"I'm very sorry Pete, but I don't accept returns. This is so people don't bid on my rare uncomped records just to record them, then ask for a refund."

Yeah like after collecting British, dealing in British, writing a British label fanzine and doing a British label price guide I am unlikely to have this track on tape or cd.

Surely he is obliged to give me a refund if the item isn't up to scratch?

he also says he sold it for what he paid for it. So f*cking what?

Anyway, have filed a complaint with paypal. I get more and more disillusioned with Ebay every day.

Edited March 21, 200619 yr by Pete-S

  Pete-S said:

I boughta copy of 'manchesters Playboys' from some guy in the States. I got it this morning and it's been ironed, yes literally, ironed...to get a warp out. It's still massively warped, the vinyl is like a flexidisc and you can hear it bump on every rotation. So I emailed him and asked for a refund and he said..

"I'm very sorry Pete, but I don't accept returns. This is so people don't bid on my rare uncomped records just to record them, then ask for a refund."

Yeah like after collecting British, dealing in British, writing a British label fanzine and doing a British label price guide I am unlikely to have this track on tape or cd.

Surely he is obliged to give me a refund if the item isn't up to scratch?

he also says he sold it for what he paid for it. So f*cking what?

Anyway, have filed a complaint with paypal. I get more and more disillusioned with Ebay every day.

I think you have a very good cause for complaint there Pete....sounds as though he's using a standard line there.

  Richard Bergman said:

I think you have a very good cause for complaint there Pete....sounds as though he's using a standard line there.

I reckon the case is 100% solid - being worried about someone taping your records is no excuse for selling a pile of rubbish - is it?

BUY A WINNING LOTTERY TICKET, BUY A TICKET TO THE STATES, TRACK THE GUY DOWN, ASK HIM FOR A REFUND FACE TO FACE, AND IF HE DOES NOT AGREE, GET AN IRON A TAKE THE WARP OUT OF HIS FACE THATS HE GOT FROM THE PAIN OF YOU CUTTING HIS TADS OFF.

A BIT EXTREME BUT WHEN WORD SPREADS, OTHER CHANCERS LIKE HIM WILL THINK TWICE.

ALTERNATIVELY I THINK IF YOU USE PAYPALL YOU ARE COVERED FOR £500 FOR SUCH INCIDENTS.

ED

  tomangoes said:

BUY A WINNING LOTTERY TICKET, BUY A TICKET TO THE STATES, TRACK THE GUY DOWN, ASK HIM FOR A REFUND FACE TO FACE, AND IF HE DOES NOT AGREE, GET AN IRON A TAKE THE WARP OUT OF HIS FACE THATS HE GOT FROM THE PAIN OF YOU CUTTING HIS TADS OFF.

A BIT EXTREME BUT WHEN WORD SPREADS, OTHER CHANCERS LIKE HIM WILL THINK TWICE.

ALTERNATIVELY I THINK IF YOU USE PAYPALL YOU ARE COVERED FOR £500 FOR SUCH INCIDENTS.

ED

Ed, that is a great idea but there is one snag. I don't do the lottery. :angry:

Not having the best of times Pete lately are you?

You can always use the feedback system too, to let others know - even if you get your money back thru Paypal ( And you should do by all accounts ). Spending money on poor condition 45s is a bain in buying off ebay so at the very least you will warn others. Let us know how you get on.

ATB

Rich

  Pete-S said:

Ed, that is a great idea but there is one snag. I don't do the lottery. :angry:

Is that a religous thing or dont you need the money?

Just send the dude a letter with some Ricin applied under the flap (It might be wise to get a self sealing envelope for this job) . You must be able to get an gram or two from ebay.

Ed

Pete, e.mail him back and point out that whilst he may not accept refunds, you don't acept being sold substandard goods that weren't described as such, this is to stop you being sold shoddy cr#p that you would not otherwise have bought from people who really should provide a refund immediately and let you put the record in the bin where it belongs. The seller is obviously a complete arsewipe, tell the FBI that he offered to sell you some semtex and muttered something about Al Queda, he'll regret dicking you about when he is sat in Guantanamo Bay with some electrodes attached to his balls and a cattle prod rammed up his jacksie.

Just a sugggestion.

  Stuart T said:

Pete, e.mail him back and point out that whilst he may not accept refunds, you don't acept being sold substandard goods that weren't described as such, this is to stop you being sold shoddy cr#p that you would not otherwise have bought from people who really should provide a refund immediately and let you put the record in the bin where it belongs. The seller is obviously a complete arsewipe, tell the FBI that he offered to sell you some semtex and muttered something about Al Queda, he'll regret dicking you about when he is sat in Guantanamo Bay with some electrodes attached to his balls and a cattle prod rammed up his jacksie.

Just a sugggestion.

========

i think you should iron it out between you

and if u cant ,,,,press charges!!!

  Stuart T said:

Pete, e.mail him back and point out that whilst he may not accept refunds, you don't acept being sold substandard goods that weren't described as such, this is to stop you being sold shoddy cr#p that you would not otherwise have bought from people who really should provide a refund immediately and let you put the record in the bin where it belongs. The seller is obviously a complete arsewipe, tell the FBI that he offered to sell you some semtex and muttered something about Al Queda, he'll regret dicking you about when he is sat in Guantanamo Bay with some electrodes attached to his balls and a cattle prod rammed up his jacksie.

Just a sugggestion.

Semtex, Ricin and Al Queda ?

Methinks the FBI will have seen the thread already

  SteveM said:

Semtex, Ricin and Al Queda ?

Methinks the FBI will have seen the thread already

SEMTEX NO GOOD WITHOUT MERCURY TILT-SWITCHES...NOW WHERE DID I PUT THEM....JUST KIDDING PLOD IF YOUR MONITORING US SOUL-ACTIVISTS.

  Pete-S said:

I boughta copy of 'manchesters Playboys' from some guy in the States. I got it this morning and it's been ironed, yes literally, ironed...to get a warp out. It's still massively warped, the vinyl is like a flexidisc and you can hear it bump on every rotation. So I emailed him and asked for a refund and he said..

"I'm very sorry Pete, but I don't accept returns. This is so people don't bid on my rare uncomped records just to record them, then ask for a refund."

Yeah like after collecting British, dealing in British, writing a British label fanzine and doing a British label price guide I am unlikely to have this track on tape or cd.

Surely he is obliged to give me a refund if the item isn't up to scratch?

he also says he sold it for what he paid for it. So f*cking what?

Join the club!

I sold a 45 on Ebay to a guy in the States. He didn't want to pay postal insurance, paid through Paypal including standard airmail. Leaves me posotive feedback when the 45 arrives then procedes with a complaint through paypal saying the 45 did not arrive. Paypal ask me for proof of delivery (not posting) which obviously can't provide so they refund his money leaving me down £80.00 plus short a 45. And when they ask me for my thoughts on how the "Matter" was delt with they ask for my opinion within one sentence.

Disillusioned, totaly!

Edited March 21, 200619 yr by philbeckwith

  SteveM said:

Semtex, Ricin and Al Queda ?

Methinks the FBI will have seen the thread already

Do you think so? Oh dear, ah well, in for a penny in for a pound as they say in Merrie Old England.

George Bush is an alcoholic fairy

Apple pie was invented in England

God doesn't exist

Red Indians are not necessarily communists

  philbeckwith said:

Join the club!

I sold a 45 on Ebay to a guy in the States. He didn't want to pay postal insurance, paid through Paypal including standard airmail. Leaves me posotive feedback when the 45 arrives then procedes with a complaint through paypal saying the 45 did not arrive. Paypal ask me for proof of delivery (not posting) which obviously can't provide so they refund his money leaving me down £80.00 plus short a 45. And when they ask me for my thoughts on how the "Matter" was delt with they ask for my opinion within one sentence.

Disillusioned, totaly!

Phil - I've posted on exactly the same subject as this after I was done 3 times, same method, people saying they hadn't received the goods after paying via paypal. What I do now, if they won't pay for registered post, they don't win the item, simple as that.

  Pete-S said:

Phil - I've posted on exactly the same subject as this after I was done 3 times, same method, people saying they hadn't received the goods after paying via paypal. What I do now, if they won't pay for registered post, they don't win the item, simple as that.

Thanks for the LPs Pete

  Stuart T said:

Do you think so? Oh dear, ah well, in for a penny in for a pound as they say in Merrie Old England.

George Bush is an alcoholic fairy

Apple pie was invented in England

God doesn't exist

Red Indians are not necessarily communists

I THINK THEY DEFINITELY MONITOR THIS THREAD..TWO GUYS IN BLACK HAVE JUST CRASHED THROUGH THE PATIO DOORS........'OOOOIIII DO YOU MIND I'VE JUST HOOVERED THERE !!!!' ....IT'S OK THOUGH THEY'VE APOLOGISED ...WRONG HOUSE APPARENTLY !!!

  Pete-S said:

Phil - I've posted on exactly the same subject as this after I was done 3 times, same method, people saying they hadn't received the goods after paying via paypal. What I do now, if they won't pay for registered post, they don't win the item, simple as that.

I think I'll do the same in future.

Phil.

E-Bay is becoming like a real Wild West Frontier town. There's too many conmen and charlatans. I had some surreal experiences when putting some things up for sale, and recently (last 18 months or so) the records I've been getting from the states have tended to be been seriously over-graded. Probably because more civilians are selling their dad's old records and don't understand grading properly.

This isn't helped by the fact that there's no real universally agreed upon grading system. Maybe E-bay need to impose a system on sellers that leaves no doubt about condition? Obviously it wouldn't be foolproof, but it should cut out a lot of quibbling. Not sure how you'd resolve the "I tried to iron it flat" category.

Add that to the general idiots who don't understand the concept of an auction, and the fact that both buyers and sellers are increasingly pissed off by Ebay's bizarre customer services and Paypal's ridiculously fascist and arbitrary policies.

On top of ALL that - the last couple of things I've bought from the States have been jumped on by Customs - the only two occasions this has happened in 8 or so years - making it a less attractive proposition anyway.

Bah Humbug!

  Pete-S said:

I boughta copy of 'manchesters Playboys' from some guy in the States. I got it this morning and it's been ironed, yes literally, ironed...to get a warp out. It's still massively warped, the vinyl is like a flexidisc and you can hear it bump on every rotation. So I emailed him and asked for a refund and he said..

"I'm very sorry Pete, but I don't accept returns. This is so people don't bid on my rare uncomped records just to record them, then ask for a refund."

Yeah like after collecting British, dealing in British, writing a British label fanzine and doing a British label price guide I am unlikely to have this track on tape or cd.

Surely he is obliged to give me a refund if the item isn't up to scratch?

he also says he sold it for what he paid for it. So f*cking what?

Anyway, have filed a complaint with paypal. I get more and more disillusioned with Ebay every day.

Bought a wayne fontana, 'give me a little more time' philips demo, same thing it looked like an iron had been used, I returned and asked for a refund, nothing back, no refund, no record.I was going to persue via ebay but just did not have the time to go through the system, i did give bad feedback, but the impression i got from the seller, who cares.

SHEEP

  Stuart T said:

Thanks for the LPs Pete

Thanks for buying 'em mate...the proceeds went towards the 38 (!!!) island singles I bought last week

  Pete-S said:

Thanks for buying 'em mate...the proceeds went towards the 38 (!!!) island singles I bought last week

38 is a nice number

  Stuart T said:

38 is a nice number

It is when it includes Teenage Ska, Man In The Street, Bend Down Low, The Jerk, Greenfield Ska, Lucky Seven, Jonestown Special, Cry Tough etc etc etc ... laverly

  Pete-S said:

It is when it includes Teenage Ska, Man In The Street, Bend Down Low, The Jerk, Greenfield Ska, Lucky Seven, Jonestown Special, Cry Tough etc etc etc ... laverly

Some nice bits there then! Teenage Ska is going up and up, haven't got Renegade by The Zodiacs have you? Got a James Bond recently, mint, never had that before. Jonestwon Ska must be very rare.

  Stuart T said:

Some nice bits there then! Teenage Ska is going up and up, haven't got Renegade by The Zodiacs have you? Got a James Bond recently, mint, never had that before. Jonestwon Ska must be very rare.

I've never had renegade though I'd buy it for Duck Soup on the other side; had a mint James Bond, sold it in the collection before last...won't pay for it now though...I picked up a jackie Edwards I Feel So Bad for £15 the other day, unbelievable, especially as it was off Mick Smith was G+ no centre writing on label but plays EX-

  Pete-S said:

It is when it includes Teenage Ska, Man In The Street, Bend Down Low, The Jerk, Greenfield Ska, Lucky Seven, Jonestown Special, Cry Tough etc etc etc ... laverly

Oooh Pete, stop it NOW.....

You're making me go moist.....got The Jerk and James Bond but any white Island ska makes me go weak at the knees.......as for the guy in the States - bad karma will descend upon him. Trust me

Jo

  Pete-S said:

I've never had renegade though I'd buy it for Duck Soup on the other side; had a mint James Bond, sold it in the collection before last...won't pay for it now though...I picked up a jackie Edwards I Feel So Bad for £15 the other day, unbelievable, especially as it was off Mick Smith was G+ no centre writing on label but plays EX-

Never so keen on Duck Soup. Still can't beat The Sensations Love Not To Brag but think that was only on the Jamaican Treasure Isle. B side of Thunderball.

Do you think we've thrown the FBI off our trail yet or will they think we're speaking in code?

  Pete-S said:

I've never had renegade though I'd buy it for Duck Soup on the other side; had a mint James Bond, sold it in the collection before last...won't pay for it now though...I picked up a jackie Edwards I Feel So Bad for £15 the other day, unbelievable, especially as it was off Mick Smith was G+ no centre writing on label but plays EX-

On the subject I picked up a copy of Wilfred 'jackie' Edwards " do you want me again" black swan recently fairly cheap...

  Richard Bergman said:

On the subject I picked up a copy of Wilfred 'jackie' Edwards " do you want me again" black swan recently fairly cheap...

Presumably this is the one that Tim Brown reckons is worth £400 or something daft like that. message to Tim: no Black Swan record is worth more than £30. Or at least they aren't until some nutcase tells people they are worth £400.

this is my opinion:

when you buy or sell something on e-bay a contract is formed between the buyer and seller

the contract is "completed" when an an offer to sell is accepted by a prospective purchaser (ie: you win an auction or accept a buy it now price)

the terms of the contract could include registered or recorded delivery as part of the offer of sale, and the condition described by the seller is another element of the contract

if any such terms are not met by either the vendor or purchaser there is a breach of contract actionable in the courts (ie: a claim for damages)

however, it isn't realistic for a UK resident to sue in the US courts - so e-bay should sort it out, and the aggrieved party should pursue a complaint with e-bay and they should enforce the terms of the contract unfortunately, their ultimate sanction probably is to close the seller's account if they don't cough up - which is futile given that anyone could buy another PC and easily open a new account in a different name, or re-code their existing PC if they are a "hairsucker" (computer nerd) who knows how

it would be simple to bring a small claims action in the County Court (england & wales - i dont know about scotchland) if the seller lived within the courts' juristiction - you wouldn't need a lawyer to do this, but you'd need to have an address for service of the summons

certain methods of payment offer free or inclusive insurance (eg: most credit cards) - and this is a well known and frequently used method of fraud (ie: you "buy" a broken copy of a valuable record from a mate and then put in a claim when it arrives stating that it got broken in transit, your mate gives you your money back, and you split the compensation money)

if anyone wants to engage me to recover monies paid on records which weren't in the condition described i charge £100 per hour for legal advice/representation - or i will work for free for "sexual favours"

.................but not from pete smith!!!!

  woolie mark said:

or i will work for free for "sexual favours"

.................but not from pete smith!!!!

I am a very clean person

  Pete-S said:

Presumably this is the one that Tim Brown reckons is worth £400 or something daft like that. message to Tim: no Black Swan record is worth more than £30. Or at least they aren't until some nutcase tells people they are worth £400.

If Tim wants to give me £400 for it he can be my guest.....

  woolie mark said:

this is my opinion:

when you buy or sell something on e-bay a contract is formed between the buyer and seller

the contract is "completed" when an an offer to sell is accepted by a prospective purchaser (ie: you win an auction or accept a buy it now price)

the terms of the contract could include registered or recorded delivery as part of the offer of sale, and the condition described by the seller is another element of the contract

if any such terms are not met by either the vendor or purchaser there is a breach of contract actionable in the courts (ie: a claim for damages)

however, it isn't realistic for a UK resident to sue in the US courts - so e-bay should sort it out, and the aggrieved party should pursue a complaint with e-bay and they should enforce the terms of the contract unfortunately, their ultimate sanction probably is to close the seller's account if they don't cough up - which is futile given that anyone could buy another PC and easily open a new account in a different name, or re-code their existing PC if they are a "hairsucker" (computer nerd) who knows how

it would be simple to bring a small claims action in the County Court (england & wales - i dont know about scotchland) if the seller lived within the courts' juristiction - you wouldn't need a lawyer to do this, but you'd need to have an address for service of the summons

certain methods of payment offer free or inclusive insurance (eg: most credit cards) - and this is a well known and frequently used method of fraud (ie: you "buy" a broken copy of a valuable record from a mate and then put in a claim when it arrives stating that it got broken in transit, your mate gives you your money back, and you split the compensation money)

if anyone wants to engage me to recover monies paid on records which weren't in the condition described i charge £100 per hour for legal advice/representation - or i will work for free for "sexual favours"

.................but not from pete smith!!!!

Woolie Mark,

As far as I am aware, Registered or Recorded Delivery, are of no use if being used to send items of value abroad as the tracking system used to otherwise determine final delivery, ends at the shores of the UK.

Pete Smith,

According to eBay and PayPal, if the item when it arrives is not as described, then you have a valid claim.

Did the seller display the following?

See below;

When you pay with PayPal for an item covered by PayPal Buyer Protection, you may receive coverage up to $1,000 at no additional cost. To see if an item is covered by PayPal Buyer Protection, look for the following in the "seller information" section of the seller's listing.

Transactions Covered by PayPal Buyer Protection

PayPal Buyer Protection helps you in the event you do not receive your item or the item is significantly different from its description in the seller's listing. An item is covered by PayPal Buyer Protection if it meets the following eligibility requirements.

• The "Free PayPal Buyer Protection" message is displayed in the seller listing information.
• You purchase your item on eBay.
• You must use PayPal to pay for the item, and use the seller's email address associated with the listing. To make sure of this, use the gray Pay Now button when the eBay listing ends.
• The seller's eBay listing is for a physical item. Services and intangible items are not covered.
• You may only file one claim per PayPal payment. You are limited to three PayPal Buyer Protection refunds per calendar year.
  
• Claims must be filed within 45 days of the PayPal payment.
  

There may be other requirements that apply to your item. Learn more about PayPal Buyer Protection.

How PayPal Buyer Protection and eBay Standard Purchase Protection Program work together

• For most items not covered by PayPal Buyer Protection, eBay offers a standard purchase protection program which provides coverage up to $200 (less a $25 service fee).
• Both the eBay and PayPal purchase protection program offer coverage when you pay for an item that you don't receive or when you receive an item that is significantly different from the item that was described in the listing.
  
• If you pay with PayPal on listings that are not covered by PayPal Buyer Protection, and file your complaint with PayPal, PayPal will provide the protection outlined by the eBay Standard Purchase Protection Program.
  

Receive full buyer protection with PayPal Buyer Credit

• When you use PayPal Buyer Credit to pay for merchandise on eBay, your transactions are eligible for full buyer protection at no additional cost.
• Buyer Protection from PayPal is in addition to any rights you have to dispute charges to your credit line with the credit issuer.
  
• You can receive full buyer protection if you pay for an item and never receive it or if you receive an item that you purchased on eBay and it is significantly different from the item that was described in the listing.
  

  sweeney said:

E-Bay is becoming like a real Wild West Frontier town. It's always been this way, nothing new here mate.There's too many conmen and charlatans. They have been on ebay since it's creation. I had some surreal experiences when putting some things up for sale, and recently (last 18 months or so) the records I've been getting from the states have tended to be been seriously over-graded. Probably because more civilians are selling their dad's old records and don't understand grading properly.Read feedback, if they ain't got any don't deal with them or if you take the chance don't been suprised when things go wrong.

This isn't helped by the fact that there's no real universally agreed upon grading system. Even if there was people would still have a different view. Maybe E-bay need to impose a system on sellers that leaves no doubt about condition? It does 99.9% of people don't read the TOC's. Obviously it wouldn't be foolproof, but it should cut out a lot of quibbling. Not sure how you'd resolve the "I tried to iron it flat" category.

Add that to the general idiots who don't understand the concept of an auction, and the fact that both buyers and sellers are increasingly pissed off by Ebay's bizarre customer services and Paypal's ridiculously fascist and arbitrary policies.

On top of ALL that - the last couple of things I've bought from the States have been jumped on by Customs - the only two occasions this has happened in 8 or so years - making it a less attractive proposition anyway. When something gets BIG the authorities always want there share.

Bah Humbug!

Pete

think i tracked down that sellers workplace, apparently a big find off the west coast, maybe you can collar him

did he iron the sleeve while he was at it, hope you didnt lose your shirt

danny

As for being busted for customs, that idiot Brown has put up our import allowances. Other than that his budget was the usual crap, lies and misrepresentations.

Mark, doesn't a US court accepted a liquidated claim from a UK court under the relevant convention? Unfortunately the bigger issue is how to obtain consent to service out of the jurisdiction, not sure how this works post Woolf or via Claims Online.

  Pete-S said:

I boughta copy of 'manchesters Playboys' from some guy in the States. I got it this morning and it's been ironed, yes literally, ironed...to get a warp out. It's still massively warped, the vinyl is like a flexidisc and you can hear it bump on every rotation. So I emailed him and asked for a refund and he said..

"I'm very sorry Pete, but I don't accept returns. This is so people don't bid on my rare uncomped records just to record them, then ask for a refund."

Yeah like after collecting British, dealing in British, writing a British label fanzine and doing a British label price guide I am unlikely to have this track on tape or cd.

Surely he is obliged to give me a refund if the item isn't up to scratch?

he also says he sold it for what he paid for it. So f*cking what?

Anyway, have filed a complaint with paypal. I get more and more disillusioned with Ebay every day.

Hi Pete , thanks for the mailer info , i,m shure that at some time or other all of us e-bay chancers have copped an outrageous stitch up from a US seller , like one large US dealer who demands you send him $20 for him to CONSIDER a refund on a knackered 45 and another one who sellsA VERY RARE RECORD and you receive a $8.99 reissue lp ......ect. It would be very useful to set up a rogues gallery to name and warn others about these so they dont end up with our hard earned. frank m

  bearsoul said:

I THINK THEY DEFINITELY MONITOR THIS THREAD..TWO GUYS IN BLACK HAVE JUST CRASHED THROUGH THE PATIO DOORS........'OOOOIIII DO YOU MIND I'VE JUST HOOVERED THERE !!!!' ....IT'S OK THOUGH THEY'VE APOLOGISED ...WRONG HOUSE APPARENTLY !!!

This is fook in great

Can't stop fookin laughing

Pete

Shame he is not over hear we could go round and give him a GOOD DIG ! Had a quality issue with him over a Marva Whitney record. Exact same response allmost word for word !

Edited March 23, 200619 yr by Gavin Page

He agreed to refund half the money and I keep the record so that's not too bad I suppose.