Gasher Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 https://cgi.ebay.com/Dennis-Edwards-I-Didnt...1QQcmdZViewItem some more silly buggers buying things they dont know are shit Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 https://cgi.ebay.com/Dennis-Edwards-I-Didnt...1QQcmdZViewItem some more silly buggers buying things they dont know are shit Is this a boot for sure, Gasher? John Manship's boot guide says the bootleg has Black Label with silver lettering. Perhaps new boots in circulation?? What do u think? Carl Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
John Al Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Hmmmm, looks original to me - but rather too clean and I'm suspicious of seller who says he doesn't know if original or not. Maybe history of record would help. Thanks for pointing it out though - I'm looking for one and Manship's auction got a bit too steep. John Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ted Massey Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Is this a boot for sure, Gasher? John Manship's boot guide says the bootleg has Black Label with silver lettering. Perhaps new boots in circulation?? What do u think? Carl Sure these were done at the same time as Magnetics lady in green and When ium with my baby and a few others Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete Burton Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Sure these were done at the same time as Magnetics lady in green and When ium with my baby and a few others I saw this and was convinced it is a boot because I thought that the original is matrix stamped with symbol and not a number.................could be wrong though ? You have to say that the item was sold in a deliberately dubious way and who the hell pays over $1K for something like this. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest espo Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 This looks like the "lookalike boot" that came out about 5 years back-----dont know for certain ,might be wrong Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dazz Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I saw this and was convinced it is a boot because I thought that the original is matrix stamped with symbol and not a number.................could be wrong though ? You have to say that the item was sold in a deliberately dubious way and who the hell pays over $1K for something like this. Original has number T4KM-1728 not T4KM-1729 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Denbo Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Original has number T4KM-1728 not T4KM-1729 This is why some of us collect UK labels. Not exclusively, but whenever possible. Because you NEVER get this problem with UK labels. Some might get re-issued but NEVER booted. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Gasher Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 (edited) If you look at the original the typset is all wrong the dead wax is massive on both sides.. there is no definative dip in the label like the original even the credits are different layout.. its a boot....way to clean also.. the I of International has no gap between the I and the n compared to the very obvious one on the real copy The S in SoulvillE is a different shape JUST FATTER to the real one..come on guys Stevie wonder can see its a boot have a look at Manships 1594 completed auctions..TOTALLY DIFFERENT OK HIS IS A DEMO BUT CHALK AND CHEESE..AND LETS FACE IT WHO WOULD GET A REAL ISSUE FOR £600??? THINK ABOOT IT Edited March 19, 2006 by the gasher Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Gasher Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 I saw this and was convinced it is a boot because I thought that the original is matrix stamped with symbol and not a number.................could be wrong though ? You have to say that the item was sold in a deliberately dubious way and who the hell pays over $1K for something like this. IDIOTS THATS WHO Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete Burton Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 AND LETS FACE IT WHO WOULD GET A REAL ISSUE FOR £600??? THINK ABOOT IT Whereas £600 for a boot is an absolute bargain !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Dan Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 you could have a game of five a side on that dead wax Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 (edited) If you look at the original the typset is all wrong the dead wax is massive on both sides.. there is no definative dip in the label like the original even the credits are different layout.. its a boot....way to clean also.. the I of International has no gap between the I and the n compared to the very obvious one on the real copy The S in SoulvillE is a different shape JUST FATTER to the real one..come on guys Stevie wonder can see its a boot have a look at Manships 1594 completed auctions..TOTALLY DIFFERENT OK HIS IS A DEMO BUT CHALK AND CHEESE..AND LETS FACE IT WHO WOULD GET A REAL ISSUE FOR £600??? THINK ABOOT IT Totally different to the one i just auctioned https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/rarest-of-the-rare/17 The ebay offering looks like a NEW repro to me. The Elusions he's selling at the 'mo is certainly a bootleg. The other earlier Dennis Edwards bootleg is BLACK with SILVER text. This looks like something new to me, like the recent DAYBREAK deal. Nothing about it gives me confidence that it's the REAL DEAL even has the BEVELLED edge run-in..abd the deadwax is far too wide. PS original STOCK copies are BLACK with SILVER TEXT MIke H. is the only guy i know who has a copy Edited March 19, 2006 by john manship Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simsy Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Is this a boot for sure, Gasher? John Manship's boot guide says the bootleg has Black Label with silver lettering. Perhaps new boots in circulation?? What do u think? Carl The vinyl is so shiny and new looking on the ebay one, you can see the reflection of the geezers shirt in it. And he has bad nails. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Dan Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 shame the boy who bought it is a private ebayer - don't think you can email them. this is a disgrace...digusting...when will people learn...etc etc Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest martyn Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Totally different to the one i just auctioned https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/rarest-of-the-rare/17 The ebay offering looks like a NEW repro to me. The Elusions he's selling at the 'mo is certainly a bootleg. The other earlier Dennis Edwards bootleg is BLACK with SILVER text. This looks like something new to me, like the recent DAYBREAK deal. Nothing about it gives me confidence that it's the REAL DEAL even has the BEVELLED edge run-in..abd the deadwax is far too wide. PS original STOCK copies are BLACK with SILVER TEXT MIke H. is the only guy i know who has a copy Any plans to update the bootleg/pressings/re-issue book John?..... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Any plans to update the bootleg/pressings/re-issue book John?..... That Bootleg booklet is now over 7 years old and desperately needs replacing. I've been working on a new book for 3 years "Collecting Northern Soul" which will have colour scans on every bootleg and original and all the deadwax info, even including deadwax WIDTH in mm. As you can imagine it's a long job.. but should be ready in 12 months . essential with all these e-bay sellers vaguely describing 45s. A friend of mine just paid £300 for Gwen & Ray bootleg so the sooner i get it on the market the better. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Those white ones have been around for years. If they haven't, I've sold 2 originals for £6 each Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Those white ones have been around for years. If they haven't, I've sold 2 originals for £6 each Wierd, had tons of black copies, never the white one.. if you get another white copy or anyone has one: can I buy it?? So's I can documernt it correctly. Guess it's the same masterplate etc and from the same source. PS Pete call me Monday when U get a minute.. I have something 4U.. john Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simsy Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Guess it's the same masterplate etc and from the same source. Less deadwax on black one. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ted Massey Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I think those white ones did not see the light of day when they were done at least 10 years ago because there was such a fuss kicked up over here about them. i a certain very large dealer from Lancs was involved along with a well known Detroit based recording engineer aledgedly Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest martyn Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 That Bootleg booklet is now over 7 years old and desperately needs replacing. I've been working on a new book for 3 years "Collecting Northern Soul" which will have colour scans on every bootleg and original and all the deadwax info, even including deadwax WIDTH in mm. As you can imagine it's a long job.. but should be ready in 12 months . essential with all these e-bay sellers vaguely describing 45s. A friend of mine just paid £300 for Gwen & Ray bootleg so the sooner i get it on the market the better. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Bazm Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I think those white ones did not see the light of day when they were done at least 10 years ago because there was such a fuss kicked up over here about them. i a certain very large dealer from Lancs was involved along with a well known Detroit based recording engineer aledgedly Hi Ted Gotta say when I saw this on e-bay that's EXACTLY what I thought. I remember that 'Large Dealer from Lancs' having white copies about the same time as the black bootlegs surfaced Baz M Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Here`s a copy of the Boot that came out back end of the 90s Dave f.............. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Original copy Dave f................. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Wally Francis Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 The guy from the North-East got a lucky escape,feel sorry for the fool who's bought it though,just hope someone has managed to let him know the score. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ted Massey Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Here`s a copy of the Boot that came out back end of the 90s Dave f.............. I was def. the early 90's can any one remember what was also done at the same time. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) Less deadwax on black one. WHITE BOOTLEG copy. Can some send me a BOOT of the white copy so's I can take the info off it. I've only ever had the BLACK boot in stock.. Of coarse you'll get the record back with some web-site credit.. Phone me if you can supply a copy for loan. john Edited March 20, 2006 by john manship Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 WHITE BOOTLEG copy. The white boots have been around for a few years, I thought only a few had been drip fed out....there was a strong rumour at the time someone pressed 100 of them up and let a handful out passing them off as originals (and of course making a lot of money) - memory's not as good as it was, but I think that's the jist of it. That shop in Ann Arbor btw is where I got Pages and Garland Green UNI LP for next to nowt a few years ago when I was breezing through. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 The white boots have been around for a few years, I thought only a few had been drip fed out....there was a strong rumour at the time someone pressed 100 of them up and let a handful out passing them off as originals (and of course making a lot of money) - memory's not as good as it was, but I think that's the jist of it. That shop in Ann Arbor btw is where I got Pages and Garland Green UNI LP for next to nowt a few years ago when I was breezing through. steve, i've been there too, wasn't that where Dave Withers had that amazing find with The Magnetics - lady in green.. don't seem like the sorta shop to intentionally rip someone off.. john Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mace Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 The seller states he's unsure, so maybe an email from some-one to the seller including a link to this thread might ensure that the auction is cancelled and the buyer doesn't get stitched up? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ernie Andrews Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Ive been saying this for ages- With technoology as it is and being so cheap to make you can make any record you want and pass it off as an original and unless you can carbon date the plastic their are always going to be doubts. Question to Mr manship? - How do you drop a price guide of a record from £1000.00 to £200.00 without testing that all the copies found or sold are original pressings? Just interested Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Dan Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 you can't carbon date vinyl or styrene unfortunately. but nice idea and i agree completely that counterfeiting is going to get more serious...huge values on records, new technology, worldwide interest...it's inevitable. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Gasher Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) CHANGE THE RECORD ERNIE..NOBODY CARBON DATES VINYL TAKE A WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE CHECK.. HAHA LET ME SEE YOUR TEST RESULTS ON PAPER THEN WE MIGHT START TO BELIEVE YOU EVEN IF IT WAS PLAUSIBLE OR FEASABILE OR EVEN POSSIBLE WHY YOU WOULD GO AND GET IT TESTED ON A £100 RECORD IS BEYOND ME YOU ARE TOTALLY NUTS .... Edited March 20, 2006 by the gasher Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Gasher Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 THANKS DAN IVE BEEN SAYING THAT FOR MONTHS TRYING TO TELL MY MATE ERNIE ANDREWS MY MATE CHRIS GUNNACLIFFE IS THE HEAD FORENSIC SCIENTIST FOR THE GRAMPIAN POLICE BASED IN ABERDEEN AND HE ALSO CONFIRMED IT CANT BE DONE BUT MADDDDDDD DOG ECCKERS HAS TOLD US HE HAD HIS FRED HYMES TESTED AFTER HE BOUGHT IT OFF SOUL SAM..WEVE NEVER SEEN THE RESULTS ON PAPER YET.HAHAH WONDER WHY EH??? you can't carbon date vinyl or styrene unfortunately. but nice idea and i agree completely that counterfeiting is going to get more serious...huge values on records, new technology, worldwide interest...it's inevitable. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ernie Andrews Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) CHANGE THE RECORD ERNIE..NOBODY CARBON DATES VINYL TAKE A WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE CHECK.. HAHA LET ME SEE YOUR TEST RESULTS ON PAPER THEN WE MIGHT START TO BELIEVE YOU WHY YOU WOULD GO AND GET IT TESTED ON A £100 RECORD IS BEYOND ME YOU ARE TOTALLY NUTS .... Morning Richie- Haha ha Well if you dont call it carbon dating I dont know what they call it but they put a laser through the discs and told me one was older than the other by about 30 years ( They usually do it with bone) Edited March 20, 2006 by Ernie Andrews Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Dan Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Morning Richie- Haha ha Well if you dont call it carbon dating I dont know what they call it but they put a laser through the discs and told me one was older than the other by about 30 years ( They usually do it with bone) it isn't carbon dating, whatever it is. carbon dating works on carbon-based materials which took their oxygen from the air in the last few thousand years. plastic is based on oil, which is 'old carbon', coming from plants etc from millions of years ago. would be interested to know what it was, though Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Gasher Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 BULLSHIT..THATS WHAT I THINK IT IS I CAN SMEL IT A MILE OFF..ESPECIALLY WITH A NOSE THE SIZE OF MINE LASER BOLLOCKS..CAN TELL YOU ITS ABOUT 30 YEARS OLDER BY SHINING THROUGH A RECORD.. IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THEN BEWARE OF THE FLYING PIGE SHITTING ON YOUR HEAD. YOU DESERVE IT..IT WILL BE A MASS SPECTROMETER NEXT .. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Dan Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) wrong end of stick seized soz Edited March 20, 2006 by Dan Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Keithw Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 This is why some of us collect UK labels. Not exclusively, but whenever possible. Because you NEVER get this problem with UK labels. Some might get re-issued but NEVER booted. some r quite close though what about john e paul----------i wanna know paula parfett---------love is wonderful danny williams---------who,s little girl are you all booted and for a non uk buyer look pretty close copies ???????? ++++++++++cafc we need a miracle now+++++++++++++++++++ Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Gasher Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 DAN THIS IS ONE OF MY BEST MATES ECCKERS ANDREWS.... ITS ALL IN GOOD JEST..ITS A STANDING JOKE IN ABERDEEN SO DONT GET ALL DEFENSIVE ITS ONLY A WIND UP.... WERE HAVIN A GIRRAFFE PS IF IT COST MORE THAN THE RECORD WHICH IM SURE IT WOULD THEN WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT... tone it down a bit richie everyone entitled to opinion without being accused of bullshitting and talking bollocks etc while i don't think carbon dating is the right term, there are other radioactive isotopes which can be identified in a similar way (apparently) so may not be as mad as you suggest. though probably v expensive. dan Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Dan Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 DAN THIS IS ONE OF MY BEST MATES ECCKERS ANDREWS.... ITS ALL IN GOOD JEST..ITS A STANDING JOKE IN ABERDEEN SO DONT GET ALL DEFENSIVE ITS ONLY A WIND UP.... WERE HAVIN A GIRRAFFE PS IF IT COST MORE THAN THE RECORD WHICH IM SURE IT WOULD THEN WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT... ah sorry boys... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Geordiejohnson Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 you can't carbon date vinyl or styrene unfortunately. but nice idea and i agree completely that counterfeiting is going to get more serious...huge values on records, new technology, worldwide interest...it's inevitable. Hi Dan, just moving off the thread a tad....i worked for a company who worked at a macro molecular level with polymers and they did date it..they actually developed controlled lifetime plastics but in order to do this they developed systems to date polyolefines...just an add on...how technology moves on eh geoooordie Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simsy Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 The seller states he's unsure, so maybe an email from some-one to the seller including a link to this thread might ensure that the auction is cancelled and the buyer doesn't get stitched up? Auction expired last night mate. Buyer could not be contacted, we tried. Poor dumb bast*rd... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Geordiejohnson Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Simsy... poor bugger certainly.... but Dumb ..come on...thats a bit strong plenty of major collectors and delaers have been duped with records in the past i certainly wouldnt call them dumb...johnny watson its better to cry four vandals etc Geeooordie Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Dan Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Hi Dan, just moving off the thread a tad....i worked for a company who worked at a macro molecular level with polymers and they did date it..they actually developed controlled lifetime plastics but in order to do this they developed systems to date polyolefines...just an add on...how technology moves on eh geoooordie yeh i think they can do it but it's not 'carbon dating' geordie, that was my only point. it's some other method using radioactive isotopes other than carbon-14...(or so i read on the internet ) Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simsy Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Simsy... poor bugger certainly.... but Dumb ..come on...thats a bit strong plenty of major collectors and delaers have been duped with records in the past i certainly wouldnt call them dumb...johnny watson its better to cry four vandals etc Geeooordie I dunno Geordie. Over a thousand dollars for a boot? He must have known something about rare soul records to be bidding in the first place. There is a host of tell tell signs and if that wasn't enough the seller said "we're not sure if it's an original" and the guy still paid over a grand and you don't think that's dumb? Okay, I mean I feel sorry for the bloke, how's naive sound ...? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I was def. the early 90's can any one remember what was also done at the same time. Ted you could be right i should have just put 90s i know i got it sometime in the 90s i think they were around £10 at the time, i mailed both seller and buyer about this but not heard anything back yet. Dave f............. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ernie Andrews Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 ah sorry boys... Sent you a pm Dan- The Gasher is a close friend of mine- BUt God knows what my colleague did then in that lab. Maybe Ill never know. As I said he owed me one Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Wierd, had tons of black copies, never the white one.. if you get another white copy or anyone has one: can I buy it?? So's I can documernt it correctly. Guess it's the same masterplate etc and from the same source. PS Pete call me Monday when U get a minute.. I have something 4U.. john John I tried a few times last week...will ring soon as I get a sec Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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