Paul Anka... Cant Help Loving You

[BrianB]

I think Gordon might get more sympathy for his "if its not Upfront, new 60's its crap" stance if he didn't relate every post he answers to his view that almost everything that is not played at Burnley is not worth listening to.

If this record was discovered now, (and that is a good point made earlier that it might never have been dicovered) it would be massive.

I just hope none of the Upfront records being played at these better than anywhere else venues don't turn out to have white artists singing them! But as Gordon says, if Danny Wagner who is white, can be "a recognised soul singer" what indeed is Gordon's argument about white pop songs on the scene?

[Garethx]

I'm not so sure that Paul Anka would be a massive record had it lain undiscovered until 2012. The scene is so different now that I wonder if it would have much impact at all. Can you see Butch or Dyson playing it at Lifeline or the 100 Club? It's so far out of step with the flavour of what is seen as current. It could be played at Stoke but seeing as it would be a new discovery to everyone it would probably garner little floor response there for the first few monthly plays. As discussed elsewhere the idea of something taking off in the first week of being played is something that rarely happens these days, even for the most instant or obvious sounds.

I'm not knocking the record: I've gone on record before as saying it's one of the most interesting examples of the 'curveball' records from unlikely sources which in some ways sum up an important part of Northern Soul. I've also said that the 'major label pop with the right beat' phenomenon should just be an interesting curio alongside the main diet, which should be soulful, danceable music.

As an aside here is one of Searling's RCA pop discoveries which graced the lower reaches of the Hot 100: Glenn Yarbrough appearing on Hollywood-A-Go-Go in 1965.

Edited December 4, 2012 by garethx

[Goldsoul]

To confirm the doubters, here are the facts.

Soussan discovered Anka's I Can't Help Lovin You. Wigan played it first with acetates being distributed to the 3 residents at the time.

[Guest gordon russell]

I think Gordon might get more sympathy for his "if its not Upfront, new 60's its crap" stance if he didn't relate every post he answers to his view that almost everything that is not played at Burnley is not worth listening to.

If this record was discovered now, (and that is a good point made earlier that it might never have been dicovered) it would be massive.

I just hope none of the Upfront records being played at these better than anywhere else venues don't turn out to have white artists singing them! But as Gordon says, if Danny Wagner who is white, can be "a recognised soul singer" what indeed is Gordon's argument about white pop songs on the scene?

first part of your post is way off........firstly never mentioned UPFRONT.....because hey my fav club is not an upfront club...it,s rare and UNDERPLAYED....60's dance soul......my observation is that records like paul anka would not get played today because it is clearly just a 60's pop tune.....which because of the need back in the day to find a certain sound regardless of it,s soul content, fit the bill........the fullness of time along with many many tunes of the same era finds it wanting......however the commercial side of the scene (stoke,derby ect ect) embrace it ....out of nostalgia in my view. Danny wagner along with a few other white artists was a soul singer (it,s nothing to do with colour...it,s genre! )......they were not pop singers who's music was taken on by a scene just because they had the right kind of sound.......As far as would it be massive now ONLY on the commercial scene....because as i,ve said that side of the scene is happy to embrace pop records past and present.....even over good newishly discovered dance soul tunes...

Edited December 4, 2012 by gordon russell

[KevH]

To confirm the doubters, here are the facts.

Soussan discovered Anka's I Can't Help Lovin You. Wigan played it first with acetates being distributed to the 3 residents at the time.

I knew i wasn't dreaming.!!!

[Rick Cooper]

To confirm the doubters, here are the facts.

Soussan discovered Anka's I Can't Help Lovin You. Wigan played it first with acetates being distributed to the 3 residents at the time.

Spot on Kev. How could I ever doubt you?

Here's the first Casino add to list Paul Anka as Johnny Caswell "Can't Help Lovin' You" from Blues and Soul No 137 June 18th 1974.

Interesting advert as it also lists some of Soussans instrumentals that he made.Did they all get an issue for general sale? In the same issue Frank Elson writes up his interview with Simon Soussan so it must have been about the time he made his infamous visit to the Mecca and his DJ spot at the Casino.

Rick

[AlanB]

Here's the first Casino add to list Paul Anka as Johnny Caswell "Can't Help Lovin' You" from Blues and Soul No 137 June 18th 1974.

I see Connie Stevens is also named in the advert. Was that for Tick Tock? Was it ever popular at that time?

Alan

[Agentsmith]

i'll have to add that it was also played at the catacombs by blue max, who, i believe also had a soussan acetate labelled johnny caswell

[Agentsmith]

Played at the Catacombs, late 1973, credited to Johnny Caswell, probably because "You don't love me anymore" was big around the same time. Pep played it off an Emidisc.

well, i went to the cats, feb-july 74 ) its not improbable ian had it as well on an acetate, though i dont personally remember him playing it, whereas i do max.

[Pete S]

People saying that Paul Anka - Can't Help Loving You might not make it if discovered today, yet his other "Northern" single, the extremely poppy When We get There, is in the country's top 10 play out records

Can't Help is good enough to have made it at any point of the scene's history.

[Jim G]

i love Cant Help Loving You and detest When we Get There. Same singer completely different type of songs.

[Davetay]

i love Cant Help Loving You and detest When we Get There. Same singer completely different type of songs.

Snap.

[Godzilla]

i love Cant Help Loving You and detest When we Get There. Same singer completely different type of songs.

Snap.

Double snap!

[Jaco]

Double snap!

Go on then, let's make it a treble.

[Pete S]

I doubt if anyone is going to come on and say they prefer When We Get There to Can't Help Loving You!

[Steve L]

I prefer When We get There to I Cant Help Loving You

[Pete S]

I prefer When We get There to I Cant Help Loving You

[Guest Torch55]

well, i went to the cats, feb-july 74 ) its not improbable ian had it as well on an acetate, though i dont personally remember him playing it, whereas i do max.

When did the orange re-issue come out, or for that matter the English issue? I don't recall a black RCA "Nipper" issue ever being played at the Catacombs, so it's reasonable to assume that until then acetates were used by both Max and Pep, though I can't be definitive about that. At some point in 1974 I parted with 50p for the re-issue from the Northern Soul stall in the Oasis in Manchester. Dave Evison served me, if I remember correctly.

The reason I remember Pep's acetate is that,firstly, they were rare items, and, secondly, he would go to some trouble to lay out the artist and title with some care; he had quite distinctive, angular handwriting which gave the disc's presentation an almost professional feel. In the summer of 1973 he had a demo of Lynne Randell's "Stranger in my arms" on CBS but moved it on, replacing it with an Emidisc that he obviously had prepared. He even went to the lengths of inscribing a big demo-style "A" encompassing the record's credits. I won't say It looked as good as his original but it was certainly a more than acceptable alternative. His supposed Johnny Caswell offering had also had some thought given to its presentation.

Another reason for remembering him playing it was it stood out in terms of dance floor popularity and, despite its current status as one of those records that some would rather forget, I would reiterate the comments of others that acknowledge a strangely-sourced, but archetypal example of what makes Northern Soul.

[Wiggyflat]

I played out Cant Help Loving You on Boxing day.....rammed dancefloor.A dj before me played a red Ootp boot of When We Get There...is the red Ootp a seventies boot or a recent boot.Heard Bob Sinclair twice at rwo different venues....massive with the handbaggers.

[Pete S]

I played out Cant Help Loving You on Boxing day.....rammed dancefloor.A dj before me played a red Ootp boot of When We Get There...is the red Ootp a seventies boot or a recent boot.Heard Bob Sinclair twice at rwo different venues....massive with the handbaggers.

The OOTP is about 2 years old.

[Wiggyflat]

So someone has re activated the old Ootp bootleg label then..wonder if theres a sequential number on it.There was a big dancefloor reaction to it.Its funny how a record can suddenly be big all over the country.I was deejaying after Ginger at The Dome and he spun WWGT..Rca Demo Uk.Is it Ginger who reactivated or have a few jocks been pushing it.

[Guest Soultown andy]

So someone has re activated the old Ootp bootleg label then..wonder if theres a sequential number on it.There was a big dancefloor reaction to it.Its funny how a record can suddenly be big all over the country.I was deejaying after Ginger at The Dome and he spun WWGT..Rca Demo Uk.Is it Ginger who reactivated or have a few jocks been pushing it.

played out to death in all the nw oldies venues over the last 2 yrs.

[Benji]

Just played When we get there on Youtube to remind myself what it sounds like. Personally I think it leans on the wrong side of Poppy Northern if you know what I mean. But it certainly has charm and appeal. There are certainly tunes played that are worse and by black artists.

[Guest micky p]

Thats just it..........it ain,t soul it,s 60's popular music.........northern pop if ya like

you will be trying to convince us lot that elvis did not sing rock and roll next ! lol soul from a white man eh ! who would have thought it ? -ktf, micky p in the toon

[Guest gordon russell]

. . . in your opinion. Absolute class Northern Soul to me.

definition of norman soul....dave godin.... the SOUL music up NORTH is different to that played down south.....hence the term NORMAN SOUL.....the clue is in the word soul...........a few dj,s at the time decided it was a certain sound regardless of the soul content.........it,s a few on here that bastardised the term NS to suit themselves because all the pop stuff which includes paul anka....they like....nowt wrong with liking these poop tunes.....just don,t kid yourselves they're soul even in the context of DAVE GODINS original observation....time for a cuppa

Edited February 23, 2013 by gordon russell

[Guest micky p]

ur all wrong ! i done the vocals and elvis found me in a shed while camping in the lakes ! honest ! lol i found a canadian demo in mint condition in an old smelly shop in whitley bay in 1979 i think it was ! i seem to remember a belgian demo too ! am i right ? you tell me ? ktf-micky p in the toon

[Ian Parker]

Can't help lovin you - wonderful, soulful and recorded especially for us *

I'd take that over the "other" spin of his any day

* probably not 100% true

[Guest micky p]

Can't help lovin you - wonderful, soulful and recorded especially for us *

I'd take that over the "other" spin of his any day

dont you mean "Can't help lovin you - wonderful, soulful and recorded especially for me *

* probably not 100% true but close ! lol pop or soul its a belter of a tune mate ktf

[Guest]

This was another Levine M O N S T E R. He played it before anyone and it was "that" Mecca sound. Massive instantly. And quite rightly so ! (at that time). Just overstayed it's welcome,dragging on and on untill everyone was sick of it.

[SHEFFSOUL]

Thats just it..........it ain,t soul it,s 60's popular music.........northern pop if ya like

its neither...ITS TRUE CLASSIC NORTHERN SOUL!

[Grayman45]

definition of norman soul....dave godin.... the SOUL music up NORTH is different to that played down south.....hence the term NORMAN SOUL.....the clue is in the word soul...........a few dj,s at the time decided it was a certain sound regardless of the soul content.........it,s a few on here that barstadised the term NS to suit themselves because all the pop stuff which includes paul anka....they like....nowt wrong with liking these poop tunes.....just don,t kid yourselves they're soul even in the context of DAVE GODINS original observation....time for a cuppa

Interesting statement my friend. I suppose it comes down to how and possibly when one embraced the scene. Compared to many, such as yourself, I suppose I only ever touched upon it. Although it was my life at the time, circumstances prevented me from becoming involved as much as some.

[Guest gordon russell]

if mel torme, idle few and shane martin ain't soul, then neither is paul anka......but they are all great tracks that have kept me dancing to 'em for 40 years. I really must be missing something!!!

mel tormme............god give me strength.......when butch,andy or anyone else come up with great unknown (to a lot) dancing soul tunes and l mean dance soul the very people who rave over this pop stuff poo poo the newer things.........can,t get me ead round it

Edited February 22, 2013 by gordon russell

[Steve G]

I played out Cant Help Loving You on Boxing day.....rammed dancefloor.A dj before me played a red Ootp boot of When We Get There...is the red Ootp a seventies boot or a recent boot.Heard Bob Sinclair twice at rwo different venues....massive with the handbaggers.

Cor blimey Wiggy. When's the next date of this venue please???, We can't wait to get along.....2 x Paul (W)Ankas....OOTP bootlegs.....Bob Nohair, all on the same night? Right in the groove man, Right on now!

Edited February 22, 2013 by Steve G

[Grayman45]

I played out Cant Help Loving You on Boxing day.....rammed dancefloor.A dj before me played a red Ootp boot of When We Get There...is the red Ootp a seventies boot or a recent boot.Heard Bob Sinclair twice at rwo different venues....massive with the handbaggers.

"Blue eyed soul" on a boot! I can see a lynch mob gathering as we speak

Edited February 23, 2013 by Grayman45

[Guest Brooky]

No scientific words of wisdom except........Love it..........!!!!!!

[Pete S]

definition of norman soul....dave godin.... the SOUL music up NORTH is different to that played down south.....hence the term NORMAN SOUL.....the clue is in the word soul...........a few dj,s at the time decided it was a certain sound regardless of the soul content.........it,s a few on here that barstadised the term NS to suit themselves because all the pop stuff which includes paul anka....they like....nowt wrong with liking these poop tunes.....just don,t kid yourselves they're soul even in the context of DAVE GODINS original observation....time for a cuppa

Nobodys saying they are soul - they are Northern Soul - you should know this.

Show me where anyone has said Paul Anka is a soul record.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Pete S

[Jaco]

Nobodys saying they are soul - they are Northern Soul - you should know this.

Show me where anyone has said Paul Anka is a soul record.

Surely it's only connection to it being a pop record is by virtue of the artist.

Everything else about it - production, arrangement, backing vocals, instrumentation, beat and rhythm - puts it firmly into the category of Northern Soul. Maybe not todays Northern Soul, or whatever description is used, but certainly representative of the scene as a whole.

Would we so dismissive of it if it had it been a black vocalist? I think not.

[Pete S]

Surely it's only connection to it being a pop record is by virtue of the artist.

Everything else about it - production, arrangement, backing vocals, instrumentation, beat and rhythm - puts it firmly into the category of Northern Soul. Maybe not todays Northern Soul, or whatever description is used, but certainly representative of the scene as a whole.

Would we so dismissive of it if it had it been a black vocalist? I think not.

Spot on.

If we didn't 'know' who the artist was and it was a one off blank label, I bet nobody would ever guess that the singer was Paul Anka.

I hate this snobbishness and there's just no need for it. This is one of the best Northern Soul records discovered in the 70's, nothing can change that fact.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Surely it's only connection to it being a pop record is by virtue of the artist.

Everything else about it - production, arrangement, backing vocals, instrumentation, beat and rhythm - puts it firmly into the category of Northern Soul. Maybe not todays Northern Soul, or whatever description is used, but certainly representative of the scene as a whole.

Would we so dismissive of it if it had it been a black vocalist? I think not.

Bang on. It's one of the greatest Northern Soul productions ever - the arrangement is incredible - one of the best I've ever heard. I don't even mind his vocals to be honest. If this had been the Invitations it'd be right up there with the other greats.

Ian D

[Grayman45]

No scientific words of wisdom except........Love it..........!!!!!!

It's rubbish pop. You should send me that copy and I will dispose of it for you

[Ric-tic]

interestingly [for me] last year in france i was going to my neighbours house to play and talk records, hes black and heavily into soul and funk. when i got there he was in a haze of smoke and playing a paul anka c.d, he asked me if i liked him before i had a chance to reply he said i like paul anka he sings like a f*ckin black man! he didnt know CHLY ill take it to him next mont i know he will flip out

[Guest gordon russell]

Nobodys saying they are soul - they are Northern Soul - you should know this.

Show me where anyone has said Paul Anka is a soul record.

they're not as you call it northern soul........l refer you to my post regarding Dave Godins original observation.......which was the soul up north is different to the soul down south hence northern soul.....he wern,t talking about pop music...it is yourself and others who have taken his original observation/term.......and off of your own backs invented a complete new meaning for the term northern soul.....To mean basically any ole 60's mixed in with soul of a particular beat.....You,ve all invented a whole new musical genre and sho horned it into Godins term.......the rest of us have stuck with his original thoughts.....soul music played up north and now down south......

Edited February 23, 2013 by gordon russell

[Soulsider]

Decades on and we are still arguing about what Northern Soul is or isn't.

Dave Goodin - look what you did

[Grayman45]

Interestingly, the people at the very forefront of the Northern Soul scene at that time, chose to play it. I wonder what their thoughts were then and now.

[Back Street Blue]

definition of norman soul....dave godin.... the SOUL music up NORTH is different to that played down south.....hence the term NORMAN SOUL.....the clue is in the word soul...........a few dj,s at the time decided it was a certain sound regardless of the soul content.........it,s a few on here that bastardised the term NS to suit themselves because all the pop stuff which includes paul anka....they like....nowt wrong with liking these poop tunes.....just don,t kid yourselves they're soul even in the context of DAVE GODINS original observation....time for a cuppa

Definition of the underground soul snob....."Nobby Zerdovitt"

................someone who pooh-pooh's the bedrock tunes that set the basis of the whole "scene" , slags off anyone who likes retro fashions and simply goes to soul nights for a good night out and to dance to the high tempo dance music of his choice

................and yet raves about stuff of the likes of Mike & Ray's - if only you knew and The Sandpipers - lonely too long.........now that's 60's pop music that really should stay underground!!!!

(no offence to the guys who unearthed those tracks, just my opinion as a punter)

Edited February 24, 2013 by back street blue

[Mike]

Definition of the underground soul snob....."Nobby Zerdovitt"

................someone who pooh-pooh's the bedrock tunes that set the basis of the whole "scene" , slags off anyone who likes retro fashions and simply goes to soul nights for a good night out and to dance to the high tempo dance music of his choice

................and yet raves about dog sh*t of the likes of Mike & Ray's - if only you knew and The Sandpipers - lonely too long.........now that's 60's pants pop music that really should stay underground!!!!

anymore of this childish crap and will close the thread

[Back Street Blue]

anymore of this childish crap and will close the thread

Okeh Dokey.................sorry 'bout that.

[Garethx]

Terry's right. Surely at the very heart of everything this is a SOUL scene. To say anything else is revisionism. The people at the Wheel were captivated with SOUL music: the live acts which stuck out and defined the thing were the black American ones. There was an other-worldly cool about them which marked them out as different from the bulk of their UK imitators. It was that coolness, hipness (call it what you will) which made the Northern scene go in its particular direction. The Wheel boys and girls were soul fans who identified with black US culture very strongly: look at the iconography. They were not Pop fans. If anything defined them it was that.

Yes of course the odd pop record with the right feel was always there going back to Round Robin on Domain and maybe even before (even that features The Blossoms very heavily and is basically an attempt to make a 'hip' club sound) but the true defining classics are all first and foremost SOUL records: Richard Temple, Edwin Starr, The Salvadors, Tomangoes etc. Maybe Barbara Mills has a lot to answer for: one of the first wave of monster sounds where the ethnic identity of the artist was secondary.

The Paul Anka 45 is a very good one and Anka is a skilled vocalist who can pretty much sing in any given style, not a one-off no-hoper. Callello was a great arranger who could make real R&B music and was doing so at the same time (Shirley Scott etc.) but without underground Soul records the scene would not have started, flourished or survived.

[Wiggyflat]

Cor blimey Wiggy. When's the next date of this venue please???, We can't wait to get along.....2 x Paul (W)Ankas....OOTP bootlegs.....Bob Nohair, all on the same night? Right in the groove man, Right on now!

Yeah and wouldnt i have liked to go on and played Limitations,Carlettes,IThought that you were mine Boola Boola,a few unreleased things,Backyard Construction,

etc etc to a full floor..........it aint gonna happen.Keep the faith brothers....Right On Now.In Germany at the moment after hearing 25 year olds play out in Cologne all on originals...its a bit like being a passenger in a rolls Royce and then being a passenger in a knackered white metro back in the uk at some places.