I cant really see this scene as underground...well it is sort of i suppose, I mean the words Northern soul are a mass market these days.........can a club really be underground on todays scene.

IMO there is only one club that has that feel! and thats the 100 club...........and as a bonus its actually underground too

P.S shane if you can think of a better title alter it (i was looking for a word but couldnt think of it to go in there)

Edited March 8, 200619 yr by Baz

no worries baz

  Baz said:

I cant really see this scene as underground...well it is sort of i suppose, I mean the words Northern soul are a mass market these days.........can a club really be underground on todays scene.

Think in general NS is still an underground scene. Big difference between the chicken eating cd listeners and you and me for example.

Though those chicken zinger ringer stinger thingys are the bomb!

I think it depends where you are.

If I mention Northern Soul in London 99% of people haven't got a clue what I'm on about.

Whereas when I go back to the North West it seems like every single DJ in every little pub, 'fun bar' and 'nite spot' (or whatever they're calling them this week in a bid to sound cool and attract the more discerning clientelle in coloured socks) will play a few oldies mixed in with new chart stuff and have been doing as long as I can remember.

They may well be the Towns That Time Forgot but I doubt that's just a St Helens or Wigan thing...?

  Baz said:

IMO there is only one club that has that feel! and thats the 100 club...........and as a bonus its actually underground too

P.S shane if you can think of a better title alter it (i was looking for a word but couldnt think of it to go in there)

Marrs Bar is underground too isn't it ?

  KarenC said:

Marrs Bar is underground too isn't it ?

no

  Baz said:

I cant really see this scene as underground...well it is sort of i suppose, I mean the words Northern soul are a mass market these days.........can a club really be underground on todays scene.

IMO there is only one club that has that feel! and thats the 100 club...........and as a bonus its actually underground too

P.S shane if you can think of a better title alter it (i was looking for a word but couldnt think of it to go in there)

mass market? theres only 300 to 400 hard core nighter goers and probably only a few 1000 on any given weekend attending soul venues, hardly mass market. far more attending years ago when it was underground.

un·der·ground ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ndr-ground)

adj.

1. Situated, occurring, or operating below the surface of the earth: underground caverns; underground missile sites.
   
2. 1. 
      
   2. Hidden or concealed; clandestine: underground resistance to the tyrant.
      
   3. Of or relating to an organization involved in secret or illegal activity: underground trade in weapons.
      

   [*]Of or relating to an avant-garde movement or its films, publications, and art, usually privately produced and of special appeal and often concerned with social or artistic experiment.

   1. A clandestine, often nationalist, organization fostering or planning hostile activities against, or the overthrow of, a government in power, such as an occupying military government: "an underground of dissident intellectuals" (Kenneth L. Woodward).
      
   2. Chiefly British. A subway system.
      
   3. An avant-garde movement or publication.
      
   adv. (ndr-ground)
   1. Below the surface of the earth.
      
   2. In secret; stealthily.
      
   tr.v. un·der·ground·ed, un·der·ground·ing, un·der·grounds To situate under the ground: workers undergrounding telephone lines.

   underground

   adj 1: under the level of the ground; "belowground storage areas"; "underground caverns" [syn: belowground] 2: conducted with or marked by hidden aims or methods; "clandestine intelligence operations"; "cloak-and-dagger activities behind enemy lines"; "hole-and-corner intrigue"; "secret missions"; "a secret agent"; "secret sales of arms"; "surreptitious mobilization of troops"; "an undercover investigation"; "underground resistance" [syn: clandestine, cloak-and-dagger, hole-and-corner(a), hugger-mugger, hush-hush, on the quiet(p), secret, surreptitious, undercover] 3: used of independent armed resistance forces; "guerrilla warfare"; "partisan forces" [syn: guerrilla(a), guerilla(a), irregular] n 1: a secret group organized to overthrow a government or occupation force [syn: resistance] 2: electric underground railway [syn: metro, subway, tube] adv 1: in or into hiding or secret operation; "the organization was driven underground" 2: beneath the surface of the earth; "water flowing underground"

   

n.

  chalky said:

no

LOL after a couple of years of me thinking it was Someone help me

underground,Chiefly British. A subway system.and you can take the subway to get to the Dome but would you wanna`?

Edited March 8, 200619 yr by ken

  Baz said:

I cant really see this scene as underground...well it is sort of i suppose, I mean the words Northern soul are a mass market these days.........can a club really be underground on todays scene.

IMO there is only one club that has that feel! and thats the 100 club...........and as a bonus its actually underground too

I think everyone and their dog has heard of NS now, but this is totally different from knowing "the scene". As Chalky says, it is probably only the hardcore 300 - 400 that have their fingers on the pulse (this doesn't include me btw), and this hardcore will always be underground because if you don't put the effort in you simply ain't there.

Edited March 8, 200619 yr by Martin Coleman

  Martin Coleman said:

I think everyone and their dog has heard of NS know, but this is totally different from knowing "the scene". As Chalky says, it is probably only the hardcore 300 - 400 that have their fingers on the pulse (this doesn't include me btw), and this hardcore will always be underground because if you don't put the effort in you simply ain't there.

Or you`ve moved to the good ol` USA ,eh!!martin?,you ok mate?,when ya` bakc?

  chalky said:

mass market? theres only 300 to 400 hard core nighter goers and probably only a few 1000 on any given weekend attending soul venues, hardly mass market. far more attending years ago when it was underground.

Suppose mass market was a little over the top............but look at RW soul survivours 1&2 didn't they go gold or platinum?

  Baz said:

Suppose mass market was a little over the top............but look at RW soul survivours 1&2 didn't they go gold or platinum?

they may have had a wider more commercial appeal but as a dance scene it's still underground...it's hardly your saturday night clubbing scene is it?

  chalky said:

they may have had a wider more commercial appeal but as a dance scene it's still underground...it's hardly your saturday night clubbing scene is it?

Very true, Suppose for me the word underground relates to the venue too, and not because its actually below ground level When i was growing up, the words underground always realted to the underground rave scene illigal raves and such, venues were mainly in dark dingey rooms basement type buildings and that, But yes as a dance scene i would say its fairly underground

  Baz said:

Very true, Suppose for me the word underground relates to the venue too, and not because its actually below ground level When i was growing up, the words underground always realted to the underground rave scene illigal raves and such, venues were mainly in dark dingey rooms basement type buildings and that, But yes as a dance scene i would say its fairly underground

One of my mates asked me once about NS I mentioned to him about it being underground, he started to piss him self laughing...........Whats so underground about having a do in the Lanc, (local club with a nice little room upstairs)

  Baz said:

Very true, Suppose for me the word underground relates to the venue too, and not because its actually below ground level When i was growing up, the words underground always realted to the underground rave scene illigal raves and such, venues were mainly in dark dingey rooms basement type buildings and that, But yes as a dance scene i would say its fairly underground

I though most of the origianl raves were in fields, barns, quarry's...anywhere away from prying eyes

  chalky said:

I though most of the origianl raves were in fields, barns, quarry's...anywhere away from prying eyes

And warehouses.................

  chalky said:

I though most of the origianl raves were in fields, barns, quarry's...anywhere away from prying eyes

The big ones yeah Just used the word rave to discribe the whole genre of Dance music really

8 million people live within the M25 and the 100 club struggles to get 200 people thru the doors.

those figure show just how much of a minority we are.

cant get much more 'underground' than that

Shane

Not "underground" but maybe a "subculture" ?

  Quote

According to key theorists of subculture such as Dick Hebdige, members of a subculture will often signal their membership through a distinctive and symbolic use of style. Therefore, the study of subculture often consists of the study of the symbolism attached to clothing, music and other visible affectations by members of the subculture, and also the ways in which these same symbols are interpreted by members of the dominant culture.

  Quote

It may also be difficult to identify subcultures because their style (particularly clothing and music) may often be adopted by mass culture for commercial purposes, as businesses will often seek to capitalise on the subversive allure of the subculture in search of cool, which remains valuable in selling any product.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subculture

  ken said:

Or you`ve moved to the good ol` USA ,eh!!martin?,you ok mate?,when ya` bakc?

Hey ken, I'm doing good thanks. How about you? I keep seeing you terrorising the other Soul Sourcers with your "name that tunes", but it's not the same as seeing you do it live. (Have you tidied your flat up yet? ) I should be back mid-May. Can't wait to get back down the 100. I'll bring you a few white demos. What did you think of "The Riddler" by the way? Belter, eh?

I've oft wondered ... do certain people flock to underground scenes BECAUSE they are underground ... an elitism or a feeling of being special perhaps ?

Davie

  ken said:

underground,Chiefly British. A subway system.and you can take the subway to get to the Dome but would you wanna`?

still smile when rememer Dave Rimmer falling into the Boston Arms (pub under dome )after the efforts of lugging his boxes from the tube station cross the road

think once the lifts were out of order

I think the soul scene's has a misplaced sense of arrogance about how 'underground' the scene really is these days. In the 1970s and 1980s, it was probably the ultimate underground scene, but there's not much underground about it these days - certainly nothing to make it distinct from any other form of club-based music - the only people who think the the soul scene is unique are those who are on it.

Drum N' Bass, Techno, Trance etc etc - every dance scene has it's hard core and passionate elements who see it as an underground phenomenon. Perhaps if a few punters on the scene, got out to a few different kinds of clubs they would see that. Mind you, if this is your first time out since the kids grew up and left home, you could be forgiven for thinking Roni Size was a brand of trainers....

Hammy

there other factors that determine the 'underground' tag imo.

i consider the soul scene to be underground because very little money can be made for the many corporate companies.

there is no money to be made from northern soul....if there was we would have Richard Branson on here regular

the 'dance' scene in all its guises eventually goes 'overground'. The men in suits are like vultures sniffing round underground scenes.

Look at Gatecrasher for example (sheffield based super-club playing music a lot of your own children listen to ) They were 2 local sheffield lads that started a monthly night in a run down club on the outskirts of the city. within a few years they were a multi-million pound company. They own several of the smartest clubs/bars, huge cd sales and other merchandise. this is a night that started as an underground event but you can hardly call it that now. its become a household brand.

the soul scene will always remain underground to me.

Shane

  ShaneH said:

there is no money to be made from northern soul....if there was we would have Richard Branson on here regular

We have our own in house Richard Branson..........KRL, no offence Kev.

Tim Brown, John Manship ect ect bet they dont scrap around the pot for a penny

Bet Ady makes a fair wack from Kent, bet them bootleggers aint poor either.......Plenty of dosh there

All your other points though Shane

  hammy said:

you could be forgiven for thinking Roni Size was a brand of trainers....

Hammy

You there not

HB

  Baz said:

We have our own in house Richard Branson..........KRL, no offence Kev.

Tim Brown, John Manship ect ect bet they dont scrap around the pot for a penny

Bet Ady makes a fair wack from Kent, bet them bootleggers aint poor either.......Plenty of dosh there

All your other points though Shane

i am talking serious money baz. these people have less than half a dozen on the payroll.

  Baz said:

We have our own in house Richard Branson..........KRL, no offence Kev.

Tim Brown, John Manship ect ect bet they dont scrap around the pot for a penny

Bet Ady makes a fair wack from Kent, bet them bootleggers aint poor either.......Plenty of dosh there

All your other points though Shane

Plus every Tom, Dick and Harry bringing out CDs..............KFC the must have thought there was money to be made from it they used it in a multi million pound** advertising campain

** just a guess at mulit million pound befor any one gets all there figures out

  Baz said:

Plus every Tom, Dick and Harry bringing out CDs..............KFC the must have thought there was money to be made from it they used it in a multi million pound** advertising campain

** just a guess at mulit million pound befor any one gets all there figures out

its still tiny compared to other so called 'underground' scenes.

look at the ibiza phenomenon for example.

  ShaneH said:

i am talking serious money baz. these people have less than half a dozen on the payroll.

Fair enough

Though if it was all of a sudden a big smash with the kid's, Then it would be exploited as Gatecrasher was, just in the NS heyday it wasn't happening then, Think i explained that right

  ShaneH said:

8 million people live within the M25 and the 100 club struggles to get 200 people thru the doors.

those figure show just how much of a minority we are.

cant get much more 'underground' than that

Shane

Eh?,struggles?never................like the last one,thought it was gonna` be emty,how wrong could i have been ,struggling indeed.................you "toss pot" you,but i love ya`

  ken said:

Eh?,struggles?never................like the last one,thought it was gonna` be emty,how wrong could i have been ,struggling indeed.................you "toss pot" you,but i love ya`

its not meant to be negative ken ya tosspot

my point highlighted that only 200 people or so are up for a rare-soul nighter in a city so huge and heavily populated.

its not a criticism.

see you in wales

Edited March 8, 200619 yr by ShaneH

  hammy said:

I think the soul scene's has a misplaced sense of arrogance about how 'underground' the scene really is these days. In the 1970s and 1980s, it was probably the ultimate underground scene,

If underground means less widely known then it's more underground today than in the 70s and 80s. When i was growing up (70s and 80s) everyone in every school in Nuneaton new what Northern Soul was and it was played at every school and youth club disco, now most kids have never heard of it and if they have it's only cos their parents (or grandparents) are lapsed soulies.

Definately less widely known round our way amongst the civilians, but recently there was a local soul night and it was packed to the rafters with every old soulie in Nuneaton, a disproportionately high number for the size of the town. They always turn out occasionally and many still travel.

Matt

  Baz said:

I cant really see this scene as underground...well it is sort of i suppose, I mean the words Northern soul are a mass market these days.........can a club really be underground on todays scene.

IMO there is only one club that has that feel! and thats the 100 club...........and as a bonus its actually underground too

P.S shane if you can think of a better title alter it (i was looking for a word but couldnt think of it to go in there)

==========

I still think it's underground

Bilbo ;-)

  Winnie :-) said:

Bilbo ;-)

.........Baggins

  Baz said:

.........Baggins

===============

Not sure if this falls within the topic's boundaries, but supposedly we all love northern soul. Do we not want EVERYBODY to love it as well, and enjoy it the way we do, or would we prefer to keep it underground?

Winnie:-)

  Winnie :-) said:

===============

Not sure if this falls within the topic's boundaries, but supposedly we all love northern soul. Do we not want EVERYBODY to love it as well, and enjoy it the way we do, or would we prefer to keep it underground?

Winnie:-)

Nah Winnie... Stuff em...... as a farmer round these parts once said "always keep yer tatoes in the dark, never tell em anything"

  Sister Dawn said:

Nah Winnie... Stuff em...... as a farmer round these parts once said "always keep yer tatoes in the dark, never tell em anything"

I thought that was mushrooms

  KarenC said:

I thought that was mushrooms

they are the ones Karen that are kept in the dark constantly and fed on Bullshite..... whereas the tatoes are just nosey and they don't really appreciate northern

  hammy said:

I think the soul scene's has a misplaced sense of arrogance about how 'underground' the scene really is these days. In the 1970s and 1980s, it was probably the ultimate underground scene, but there's not much underground about it these days - certainly nothing to make it distinct from any other form of club-based music - the only people who think the the soul scene is unique are those who are on it.

Drum N' Bass, Techno, Trance etc etc - every dance scene has it's hard core and passionate elements who see it as an underground phenomenon. Perhaps if a few punters on the scene, got out to a few different kinds of clubs they would see that. Mind you, if this is your first time out since the kids grew up and left home, you could be forgiven for thinking Roni Size was a brand of trainers....

Hammy

I agree with every word here Hammy - The Techno scene (which I'd bet is a lot different to what most would think fits the Techno tag) has Clubs like Club 69 in Paisley - driven by pasionate DJs

The club is held in a cellar underneath an Indian Restaurant, with the Cream of Detroit artists and DJs playing. In a lot of cases for FREE.Capacity 150 tops!

This is at leaste as underground as any element of the soul scene. If the soul scene is underground it's not alone in holding that status anymore.

Has it ever been on its own 'underground'? There are other 'youth cults' that have fallen from the public eye but are still out there attracting new blood.

I would imagine that every 'youth cult' has people who stay with it through life to some extent. Look at the 65 year old rockers in your local with their greased back quiffs?

  Baz said:

I cant really see this scene as underground...well it is sort of i suppose, I mean the words Northern soul are a mass market these days.........can a club really be underground on todays scene.

IMO there is only one club that has that feel! and thats the 100 club...........and as a bonus its actually underground too

P.S shane if you can think of a better title alter it (i was looking for a word but couldnt think of it to go in there)

Sorry to contradict you mate, of course it's underground. Purely for the fact that it's not commercial and not advertised. You get the same people at the same events week in week out. How is that not underground?

The 100 club has the feel for definate.. the feel of an awful floor! Having said that it's got a great atmosphere so I've heard.

I'm toying with the idea of a weekender myself this year and heard that prestatyn might be the place.. any recommendations?

  Stapler said:

Sorry to contradict you mate, of course it's underground. Purely for the fact that it's not commercial and not advertised. You get the same people at the same events week in week out. How is that not underground?

The 100 club has the feel for definate.. the feel of an awful floor! Having said that it's got a great atmosphere so I've heard.

I'm toying with the idea of a weekender myself this year and heard that prestatyn might be the place.. any recommendations?

No need to be sorry Mr Stapler, its a open forum for disscution and thats what we do discuss

When i first came onto the scene i did think it is the ultimate underground, it was just a thought that popped into my head, after telling 'non soul mates' about this underground scene they kind of laughed in my face really, the whole N/S movement IS underground but we hold our underground movement in all manner of venues, to me them venues dont feel 'underground' except for places like the 100 club if you can see my point, (I dont even think i do now )

Get yourself down/up the 100club the floor is awful but when your there its easy to see why its been running for 25 years And 75% of this forum will be at prestatyn so get yourself along there too

I will go to prestatyn I've read the website so it looks like I'll be in the London pub gig and the main room most of the weekend.

I'm going to attend Cleethorpes too - I hear they have a great r&b room.

Tell you what.. this 9 year old girl will put all you so called good spinners to shame https://halloffamedance.com/halloffame/view...onal.aspx?id=71

  Stapler said:

Tell you what.. this 9 year old girl will put all you so called good spinners to shame https://halloffamedance.com/halloffame/view...onal.aspx?id=71

Just watched the videos and all I can say is "where's me cod liver oil and phyllosan" she was brilliant

  Baz said:

Suppose mass market was a little over the top............but look at RW soul survivours 1&2 didn't they go gold or platinum?

Were they Northern Soul .

Russ