Old Soul Tunes-new Blood

[Guest rachel]

Have to say I have recently heard the odd 'classic' thrown into sets at "across the board" venues... (see for example the Gerri Grainger thread where a few people mention they've played that at the likes of the 100 Club and Middleton). Have seen mixed reactions - groans and grins But there are some DJs working some of these tunes into their sets - it's not always going to be the particular one that you want of course!

Maybe it's just because I'm easily bored, but I think because a lot of people have heard these tunes so many times, they keep their impact only if they're played occasionally.... same with anything, not just 'oldies' (I have no desire to hear the Hamilton Movement any time in the near future either!! ).

I really think it's just a case of trying out lots of venues and finding the ones that offer what you want.. vote with your feet, as has been said many times on here before...!

Edited March 10, 2006 by rachel

[Guest]

as a bit of a newcomer to the scene i have to admit that aside from the more radio friendly motown kinda stuff one of the things i love about this scene is that on average 60% of stuff that i hear when out and about is new to me. I have heard people complaining about "played out oldies" when certain records are dropped and it raises a wry smile from me as 9 times out of 10 i have never heard the tune before. Having said that when out for other kinds of music that i know more about it can be annoying when you go out and hear the same old same old. I suppose i am lucky in that so much of this great music is fresh to my ears.

[Dave]

oldies fans cant complain imo.

there is an oldies event at the end of every street these days and most are very busy.

the more interesting events (imo) are very few and far between. its a case of travelling further, going out less and a good chance the place will be half empty.

Shane

Do these "more interesting" events not play any oldies then?

What do they play? No wonder some DJ's have difficulty posting up a playlist.

[Dave]

Have you read all the thread Dave. Bacon is the new 'oldies'

(PF tonight ?)

Doubtful for tonight Steve. Will it be "Full English" or is there a vegetarian option?

Looking forward to Sam's though

[Kev Connellan]

Honestly that is really refreshing to hear that from a younger soulie I think sometimes we forget that played out isn't played out to everyone.

Well said Karen I've only been on the soul scene since 2000 so there has to be 1000's of choons that are/were regarded by many as 'overplayed oldies' that I've yet to hear for the first time.

[caseoftyme]

as a bit of a newcomer to the scene i have to admit that aside from the more radio friendly motown kinda stuff one of the things i love about this scene is that on average 60% of stuff that i hear when out and about is new to me. I have heard people complaining about "played out oldies" when certain records are dropped and it raises a wry smile from me as 9 times out of 10 i have never heard the tune before. Having said that when out for other kinds of music that i know more about it can be annoying when you go out and hear the same old same old. I suppose i am lucky in that so much of this great music is fresh to my ears.

You're just takin' the piss aren't you

[Guest hammy]

Not 100% sure, but I think the national curriculum for under 11s requires kids to learn about how we all evolved from the primordial sludge, dinosaurs, and the like. Perhaps soon we'll see kiddies, classroom assistants and teachers going round the venues and hearing about " how it used to be when dinosaurs ruled the earth."

Let's blow the dust of those old fossils one more time.

Hammy

[Guest Dan]

Dan, do you not think its a bit selfish to say that the songs you're tired of hearing should never be played again, because these songs are all newies to me and many others.

Cast your minds back to the first time you heard these oldies. What was your reaction the first time the intro of tainted love ( as an example ) come on......... close your eyes........think back.......come on....there we are, now thats the same feeling that new ears get hearing it now.

So how anyone has the right to say that these sounds shouldn't be graced on the all nighter scene again is beyond me. Is that what this scene is about, a set of grumpy middle aged men pulling their faces at songs THEY dont think should be played because I thought that these songs belonged to everyone.

it might be selfish if i'd said that, paul, but i didn't. i said as one-off plays occasionally they were ok, in an ironic sort of way. (i also said i liked them in the right context, which i do).

as to selfishness generally, there's an argument that newcomers who get into a mature scene and expect djs to play records that they want to hear and which 95% of the rest of the people on the scene don't want to hear (i'm talking the ¼ber oldies here - ok to play tainted love, but most people wouldn't want it followed by the snake, and then stop, and then under my thumb etc etc) are the ones who are being selfish.

but it's only a discussion point - i couldn't care less really, i won't be at middleton so they could stick casino classics vols 1, 2 and 3 and leave the decks alone for all i care

as to my memories of these records and what they mean to me, scooter rallies, college discos, being 15, wearing a parka, then wearing combats, having shorter hair.

[Guest Dan]

Is that the yardtick of good taste for an oldie then? Whether or not you heard it in the 80's?

Paul and quite a few more on here weren't on the scene in the 80s.

And when you say "superceded by better things"... do you mean better, or rarer?

I've always thought Tainted Love is a great record, and I can't remember the last time I heard it played it out, whereas at a recent "upfront" event I heard Hamilton Movement and a few others played more than once in one night... alongside some records that may well be rare and covered up, but didn't have one tenth of the urgency of Tainted Love.

Perhaps Oldies are the new Upfront?

yardstick/80s: no, i don't think that is the yardstick. the point i'm making is that they were considered played out oldies even 20 years ago. as have said elsewhere, happy to hear them occasionally.

paul not on scene in 80s: well, no, but are you saying that if someone gets into northern soul literally today djs should play everything from any era indiscriminately for that person? surely that's what walkmans and mp3 players are for?

superseded by better things: i mean better, which may or may not be rarer. if i'd meant 'rarer' i would have said 'rarer'.

what i'm saying really is if you can imagine it being featured on a CD compilation with the word 'wigan' in the title that's being sold in a basket in woolies for £4.99, it probably isn't something that most people would want to hear regularly in venues.

but as i've said elsewhere, i don't personally care - doesn't matter to me, just like having an argument

[Guest]

We'll, I didn't get it .

I never for one minute expected you to get it Billy, where would be the fun in that, it was an in-joke between me and mates of mine Paul B and Shane H, sorry you felt left out, perhaps once in a while you should get out of that dark and lonely room and actually support an event, you know by putting a shilling into the palm of one of those hard working souls who lay on event after event for us mere punters. It's a thankless task, but I'm there week after week doing what I can, like many others on here. I get a little tired of the armchair "soulies" pontificating the rights and wrongs of what should and should not be played, when they stay rooted to their filthy chaise lounge injecting 3rd rate morphine and swilling cheap gin, get out and support your local venue, hell you may even get beyond your village border and support a "BIG VENUE"....

Edited March 11, 2006 by Brett

[Supercorsa]

I never for one minute expected you to get it Billy, where would be the fun in that, it was an in-joke between me and mates of mine Paul B and Shane H, sorry you felt left out, perhaps once in a while you should get out of that dark and lonely room and actually support an event, you know by putting a shilling into the palm of one of those hard working souls who lay on event after event for us mere punters. It's a thankless task, but I'm there week after week doing what I can, like many others on here. I get a little tired of the armchair "soulies" pontificating the rights and wrongs of what should and should not be played, when they stay rooted to their filthy chaise lounge injecting 3rd rate morphine and swilling cheap gin, get out and support your local venue, hell you may even get beyond your village border and support a "BIG VENUE"....

I'll have you know Mr Franklin, that it's the best Gold Label Barley Wine in this house or nothing at all!

See you in North Wales next weekend.

[Guest]

I'll have you know Mr Franklin, that it's the best Gold Label Barley Wine in this house or nothing at all!

See you in North Wales next weekend.

Looking forward to it Ian...........hey you know tape swapping goes both ways....

[Guest Dan]

I get a little tired of the armchair "soulies" pontificating the rights and wrongs of what should and should not be played, when they stay rooted to their filthy chaise lounge injecting 3rd rate morphine and swilling cheap gin, get out and support your local venue, hell you may even get beyond your village border and support a "BIG VENUE"....

i know what you mean brett. as a largely armchair soulie i get fed up of hearing people pontificating about varieties of chair

[Paulb]

yardstick/80s: no, i don't think that is the yardstick. the point i'm making is that they were considered played out oldies even 20 years ago. as have said elsewhere, happy to hear them occasionally.

paul not on scene in 80s: well, no, but are you saying that if someone gets into northern soul literally today djs should play everything from any era indiscriminately for that person? surely that's what walkmans and mp3 players are for?

superseded by better things: i mean better, which may or may not be rarer. if i'd meant 'rarer' i would have said 'rarer'.

what i'm saying really is if you can imagine it being featured on a CD compilation with the word 'wigan' in the title that's being sold in a basket in woolies for £4.99, it probably isn't something that most people would want to hear regularly in venues.

but as i've said elsewhere, i don't personally care - doesn't matter to me, just like having an argument

I suppose I can understand both sides of the arguement here. Wasn't having a go at you Dan and your opinions are as valid as mine. Its hard for a newcomer to get onto this scene and accept the politics that goes on sometimes. Same with the tunes. Its almost like certain songs have become a joke over the years for one reason or another and I cant see why.

But hey ho, thats the way it goes eh,

Going back to the start of the thread a couple of folk were imediately writting off certain more popular songs but these are the very songs that will get someone into this scene, like the young lad in question.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I love all these songs and I don't think its "cool" to look down our noses at them and pretend they're are nothing to do with us when these are the very foundations of the northern scene.

IMO too many people on this site pretend they are a cut above the rest and tend to laugh at others that will allow themselves to enjoy the more established songs which I think is wrong basically.

Please dont take this as a dig at anyone its just an observation I've made though the few years i've been on the board.

P.S. Brett, you are a nutter! Also, my little Ukranian friend cant wait to see you at prestatyn.

Edited March 11, 2006 by PaulB

[jasonion]

What appealed to me when i first got into rare soul was the fact that you had to 'hit the ground running'. The past was someone elses but the present was mine. I was left to discover old tunes at my own pace. And, of course, I found plenty of quality tracks. But i've never felt like they were mine. Quality oldies are great, but, for me, memories don't make memories. It's nice to hear old stuff but when i look back on a night when oldies make up a large percentage of the playlist it just blends in with the rest. Instantly forgettable. I know the arguement that the stuff being turned up isn't a patch on whats gone before and i'd probably agree if pushed, but i think the biggest threat to the scene is if it turns in on itself completely and we start digging up the past.

Mind you, i could be wrong. (again)

[Guest Dan]

I suppose I can understand both sides of the arguement here. Wasn't having a go at you Dan and your opinions are as valid as mine. Its hard for a newcomer to get onto this scene and accept the politics that goes on sometimes. Same with the tunes. Its almost like certain songs have become a joke over the years for one reason or another and I cant see why.

But hey ho, thats the way it goes eh,

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I love all these songs and I don't think its "cool" to look down our noses at them and pretend they're are nothing to do with us when these are the very foundations of the northern scene.

IMO too many people on this site pretend they are a cut above the rest and tend to laugh at others that will allow themselves to enjoy the more established songs which I think is wrong basically.

hi paul

didn't think you were having a go, no worries. like i say, just chewing the fat really, sitting here with the cricket on trying to avoid doing any chores and checking soul source when a wicket falls (tendulkar just gone for not many ).

you're absolutely right re these songs being the foundation of northern, certainly part of it.

insofar as my opinion is worth more than diddlysquat, i just personally don't want to go anywhere to hear out and out oldies but there's nothing wrong with people who do, and i can quite understand it if, like you, they're younger folks who maybe haven't heard them that often before. the reason they're big oldies is cos they've been played loads...cos they're great records.

interesting question re when did certain songs become a joke: just a theory but i reckon it's pretty much those tracks which were picked up by the scooter scene in the 80s (which was my scene early on). once they'd been played on the scooter scene, that was it - 'proper' soulies looked down on kids who would be wrecking to king kurt one minute and dancing to interplay the next, and by entension the tracks became almost unplayable on the northern scene. just a theory though

also, not saying you meant me particularly but i would like to say here and now i certainly don't think i'm a cut above anyone...that would be seriously laughable

dan

[Paulb]

hi paul

didn't think you were having a go, no worries. like i say, just chewing the fat really, sitting here with the cricket on trying to avoid doing any chores and checking soul source when a wicket falls (tendulkar just gone for not many ).

you're absolutely right re these songs being the foundation of northern, certainly part of it.

insofar as my opinion is worth more than diddlysquat, i just personally don't want to go anywhere to hear out and out oldies but there's nothing wrong with people who do, and i can quite understand it if, like you, they're younger folks who maybe haven't heard them that often before. the reason they're big oldies is cos they've been played loads...cos they're great records.

interesting question re when did certain songs become a joke: just a theory but i reckon it's pretty much those tracks which were picked up by the scooter scene in the 80s (which was my scene early on). once they'd been played on the scooter scene, that was it - 'proper' soulies looked down on kids who would be wrecking to king kurt one minute and dancing to interplay the next, and by entension the tracks became almost unplayable on the northern scene. just a theory though

also, not saying you meant me particularly but i would like to say here and now i certainly don't think i'm a cut above anyone...that would be seriously laughable

dan

Wasn't aiming it at you mate or anyone in particular, it just seems to me that if it isn't rare then its no good, sometimes.

[Guest Dan]

also, not saying you meant me particularly but i would like to say here and now i certainly don't think i'm a cut above anyone...that would be seriously laughable

dan

in fact thinking about this, would go further and say i'm a cut below most. am not and never have been an uncoverer of amazing newies, owner of hundreds of super rare sounds, or fanatical die-hard anything. find those people who constantly describe themselves as 'up front' a bit odd. i'm middle of the road, through and through as most people probably are...like a few 'newies' (not that there really are any anymore), a few underplayed oldies, a few hammered oldies, a it of 70s, a bit of r&b, a bit of 'crossover', the odd beat ballad etc etc

[Guest Dan]

Wasn't aiming it at you mate or anyone in particular, it just seems to me that if it isn't rare then its no good, sometimes.

not sure that many people really think this though paul . i spose there are some but personally wouldn't give house room to 'she's fire' or 'black sodding wings have my angel' or lots of others.

i do think the holy grail of northern soul is good and rare but if it's a choice it has to be good first, for me anyway

[Paulb]

not sure that many people really think this though paul . i spose there are some but personally wouldn't give house room to 'she's fire' or 'black sodding wings have my angel' or lots of others.

i do think the holy grail of northern soul is good and rare but if it's a choice it has to be good first, for me anyway

You're dead right mate. Dont want this thread to turn into something else so ill shut up now.

[Guest the soulster]

well i seem to have opened a can of worms here. i'm as guilty as most of going to soul nites all-niters and not wanting to hear played out records as iv'e been into northern since 76. the point i was trying to make was to see my son enjoying a record that he hasn't heard before without labelling it as an oldie etc and he enjoys them for being good soulful records which he can dance to. i think he will stick to northern as he gets older as he plays it more than his other music even when his mates come round and he takes a lot of interest in my collection asking about the labels, writers, originals/ pressings etc. by his age i had made my mind up as well and soul has become one of my major loves in life after my family.

Edited March 11, 2006 by the soulster

[Guest rachel]

Brenda Holloway - Stolen hours...

Patrice..

[Guest dundeedavie]

What appealed to me when i first got into rare soul was the fact that you had to 'hit the ground running'.

surely with the tempo that is in vogue at the moment if anyone gets into the scene they will hit the ground at a walking pace

Davie

[Supercorsa]

interesting question re when did certain songs become a joke: just a theory but i reckon it's pretty much those tracks which were picked up by the scooter scene in the 80s (which was my scene early on). once they'd been played on the scooter scene, that was it - 'proper' soulies looked down on kids who would be wrecking to king kurt one minute and dancing to interplay the next, and by entension the tracks became almost unplayable on the northern scene. just a theory though

dan

Followed by The Meteors - Wrecking Crew, then Matt Parsons Orchestra - Boogaloo Investigator (on the brink or whatever it is really). Dan, was it really 20 years ago, where does the time go to?

[Naughty Boy]

Right I've had my little say and I've fallen out with you all. If anyone wants me at prestatyn ill be locked in my chalet listening to Right Track and bloody enjoying it!

[Guest]

Should be fun, looking forward to going back to the atavistic ways of old, sure there are a few that i'll be taking ears off.....

[Billy Freemantle]

I never for one minute expected you to get it Billy, where would be the fun in that, it was an in-joke between me and mates of mine Paul B and Shane H, sorry you felt left out, perhaps once in a while you should get out of that dark and lonely room and actually support an event, you know by putting a shilling into the palm of one of those hard working souls who lay on event after event for us mere punters. It's a thankless task, but I'm there week after week doing what I can, like many others on here. I get a little tired of the armchair "soulies" pontificating the rights and wrongs of what should and should not be played, when they stay rooted to their filthy chaise lounge injecting 3rd rate morphine and swilling cheap gin, get out and support your local venue, hell you may even get beyond your village border and support a "BIG VENUE"....

I wasn't saying I wanted to get it, Brett. Just querying with disinterested objectivity the usage of a phrase. Sorry that you seem to have taken it personally.

[Guest]

I wasn't saying I wanted to get it, Brett. Just querying with disinterested objectivity the usage of a phrase. Sorry that you seem to have taken it personally.

Nah Bill, not personally, to busy leading my life mate, the whole forum is just a bit of fun to me, never take it serious, much prefer the third dimensional world of reality....ie. meeting transient beings who i can relate to, and which i do on a regular weekly basis.

Take Care........Brett

[Guest]

Dan, do you not think its a bit selfish to say that the songs you're tired of hearing should never be played again, because these songs are all newies to me and many others.

Here here. I've not been on this message board for long but I've certainly managed to weed out those that are a bit snobby in my opinion.

Music is about a love for the sound. A record I truely hold close to my heart will not falter throughout my life, and hasn't.

Some people are swayed too much by bullies if you ask me.

[Dave]

Here here. I've not been on this message board for long but I've certainly managed to weed out those that are a bit snobby in my opinion.

Music is about a love for the sound. A record I truely hold close to my heart will not falter throughout my life, and hasn't.

Some people are swayed too much by bullies if you ask me.

Well said mate!

[Supercorsa]

Here here. I've not been on this message board for long but I've certainly managed to weed out those that are a bit snobby in my opinion.

Music is about a love for the sound. A record I truely hold close to my heart will not falter throughout my life, and hasn't.

I am not going to try and defend anyone on this board, but can I just say this.

Quite a lot of the people who post on this board are alot more knowledgeable (artists,labels, writers,producers, etc.,) about Soul records than me. Quite a lot of them can have a way with words and can be very opinionated about stuff, things we don't always agree on, but when you meet them the majority of them are completely different to how you'd imagine (all of them except Lagerlout ).

As for the bullying/snobby impression, I've learnt to not take all comments to heart. Because most of the time they're made tongue in cheek IMO. The problem with the written word is you can't always tell in which tone it was meant to be taken.

As for the records that you love, I agree with what you said. Just take a peek at my top 5 sounds on the other topic.

Edited March 12, 2006 by Supercorsa

[Guest]

Being knowledgeable doesn't make you the leader of the pack so to speak. Saying that a particular tune is ''crap'' (which I have seen a lot here) is particularly snobby. From the hundreds of genres of music out there, those that we think are pretty dire in fact do very well, so who are we to criticise? One man's bane is another man's brawn.

If the ''soul scene'' continues to belittle ''any'' song you have already created a monster. I'm not religious in the slightest but didn't it say somewhere that tolerance was the key?

It was said elsewhere that this scene was underground in one sentence then complained that it was dying. Are we killing it ourselves?

[Guest]

As for the bullying/snobby impression, I've learnt to not take all comments to heart. Because most of the time they're made tongue in cheek IMO. The problem with the written word is you can't always tell in which tone it was meant to be taken.

That's a really really good point In my short time on the forum i think i have managed to upset a few people when just trying to be jovial . At the end of the day we are all on here because we like the same genre of music, & we love a chin wag. & in amongst all the piss taking there really is a mountain of great information on the subject to be picked up from people much more knowledgeable than i will ever be !! Love It !!

P.s If i have upset you or i do so at anytime in the future please accept my appologies, this is not my intent & my heart is generally in the right place .

Yours Sincerly.

Bogue "Totaly Paronoid" Smith

[Guest Dan]

Here here. I've not been on this message board for long but I've certainly managed to weed out those that are a bit snobby in my opinion.

Music is about a love for the sound. A record I truely hold close to my heart will not falter throughout my life, and hasn't.

Some people are swayed too much by bullies if you ask me.

i dunno whether you're having a go at me specifically but in your original post you quoted paul b asking if i didn't think i was being selfish so i'll assume you are.

i've kind of answered paul's point, i think (the answer's no).

i don't think i'm a musical snob, personally. my philosophy can be summed up as follows:

quality's more important than cost or rarity, all records (99.99%) are pretty much oldies nowadays anyway, lots of oldies are great, some aren't, i don't particularly want to hear oldies that were regarded as hammered to death 20 years when i was on the scooter scene (but if someone else wants to, that's up to them, and if a dj wants to play them, that's up to him or her, too), each to his own, i'm not trying to be some sort of arbiter of taste, i'm a total nonentity who 99% of people on here would never even have heard of if not for this forum etc etc etc ad bloody nauseam.

if that's being a 'snob', haul me away and write me up in burke's peerage.

as for 'bullying', frankly, what are you on about? this is a discussion forum. this is a discussion. are you saying that anyone who disagrees with you (or indeed anyone) is 'bullying' them? once upon a time, this country produced people who ruled the world...now we're a nation that can't deal with disagreements about oldies and newies on the internet without dissolving into tears

bullying is about the abuse of power by the strong over the weak. there's no strong and weak on here and no power to be abused - we're all equal, it's a perfect democracy. if you disagree with my views, fine - i fully expect people to disagree with me. that's what living in a free country is all about.

Edited March 12, 2006 by Dan

[Billy Freemantle]

much prefer the third dimensional world of reality....ie. meeting transient beings who i can relate to, and which i do on a regular weekly basis.

Take Care........Brett

Crikey! If those are the people you run with, Brett, I'd better shut up. I've met some really scary pikeys.

Take care.

[sister dawn]

Are we entering a war zone again???? Chill out Soul people

Edited March 12, 2006 by Sister Dawn

[Billy Freemantle]

Are we entering a war zone again???? Chill out Soul people

No war zone, Sister. Just a bit playful of leg-pulling at Brett's muddling of transient with, presumably, sentient which produced an image of unsconscious absurdity, from the perspective of my rather comfy armchair : albeit one sadly lacking in dramatic irony in an Aristotlean sense.

[Guest ShaneH]

dan, well put mate.

too many on here taking offence at the moment in my opinion. you have every right to say something is 'crap' as well as praising it. considering the massive amount soul records we are bound to love some and hate others.

this is what discussion is about.

if anyone feels like they are being told what to like then i suggest you have a look at yourselves. there aren't no bullies. fight back with your opinions why you disagree rather than spitting the dummy out.

lighten up folks

Shane

[Guest]

quote name='Supercorsa' date='Mar 12 2006, 02:06 AM' post='263108']

As for the bullying/snobby impression, I've learnt to not take all comments to heart. Because most of the time they're made tongue in cheek IMO. The problem with the written word is you can't always tell in which tone it was meant to be taken.

That's a really really good point In my short time on the forum i think i have managed to upset a few people when just trying to be jovial . At the end of the day we are all on here because we like the same genre of music, & we love a chin wag. & in amongst all the piss taking there really is a mountain of great information on the subject to be picked up from people much more knowledgeable than i will ever be !! Love It !!

P.s If i have upset you or i do so at anytime in the future please accept my appologies, this is not my intent & my heart is generally in the right place .

Yours Sincerly.

Bogue "Totaly Paronoid" Smith

Totally blew that calm reflection out of the water today didn't I !!!

[Guest hammy]

surely with the tempo that is in vogue at the moment if anyone gets into the scene they will hit the ground at a walking pace

Davie

The tempo that is in vogue at the moment ?

I find the attitude of some to midtempo records most curious. Even more curious is the suggestion that playlists up and down the land are dominated by midtempo records, or the inference that there's no place for them. There certainly seems to be a place for them at your night Davie - Buddy Ace's - True Love Money Just Can't Buy, Tommy Navarro's - I Cried My Live Away are two off the top of my head that were played last time I was there !

I challenge you to name 10 of these " in vogue " mid-tempo records, where they are played and by whom, and why you'd remove them from the scene, then ten assorted " Jungle Book Anthems" you'd replace them with.

Hammy

Edited March 12, 2006 by hammy

[Guest dundeedavie]

The tempo that is in vogue at the moment ?

I find the attitude of some to midtempo records most curious. Even more curious is the suggestion that playlists up and down the land are dominated by midtempo records, or the inference that there's no place for them. There certainly seems to be a place for them at your night Davie - Buddy Ace's - True Love Money Just Can't Buy, Tommy Navarro's - I Cried My Live Away are two off the top of my head that were played last time I was there !

I challenge you to name 10 of these " in vogue " mid-tempo records, where they are played and by whom, and why you'd remove them from the scene, then ten assorted " Jungle Book Anthems" you'd replace them with.

Hammy

now you know i'm not likely to have a go at other venues now don't you?

it's well known that i believe there is too much midtempo and slower played on the soul scene , it is also well known that i believe there isn't enough r'n'b played as i'm not shy in saying so .also while i'm at it i don't believe in playin rare for the sake of it and some underplayed tunes are underplayed because they are shite .

yeah i play true love money can't buy at BASICS , there is room for anything we believe in at BASICS as long as it fits in with the era and the principles we are trying to promote , you ran a 60's policy club yourself once remember ?

for me to name venues would be easy , and to name dj's would also be easy but i won't , they have their beliefs and i have mine and i respect them for it , but i don't have to like their taste in music as i'm sure you don't like mine ....

btw what "jungle book anthems" did you have in mind , something played at BASICS?

Davie

[Guest hammy]

Davie

I simply don't agree that the soul scene in general is saturated with mid tempo records. That's the point I'm trying to make. There is no evidence of that - and I invite you to offer some. I admire what your doing at Basics - I'm just curious what principles lead you to attacking midtempo records, then playing them at your night. That's all.

As for my taste in music, I've never said that R&B doesn't have a place on the scene. If I thought that, then I wouldn't have a) gone to your club or booked DJs in the post with a repulation for playing it.. Rare/northern is a broad church, as far as I am concerned. My attitude during promoting was always to provide exposure to DJs who would deviate from the norm and offer something different, but to leave the direction of that in their own hands.

I'm begining to agree with some that there's too many on here get very prickly/defensive when challenged on anything they post.

Hammy

[Guest dundeedavie]

Davie

I simply don't agree that the soul scene in general is saturated with mid tempo records. That's the point I'm trying to make. There is no evidence of that - and I invite you to offer some. I admire what your doing at Basics - I'm just curious what principles lead you to attacking midtempo records, then playing them at your night. That's all.

As for my taste in music, I've never said that R&B doesn't have a place on the scene. If I thought that, then I wouldn't have a) gone to your club or booked DJs in the post with a repulation for playing it.. Rare/northern is a broad church, as far as I am concerned. My attitude during promoting was always to provide exposure to DJs who would deviate from the norm and offer something different, but to leave the direction of that in their own hands.

I'm begining to agree with some that there's too many on here get very prickly/defensive when challenged on anything they post.

Hammy

not prickly at all mate , but as i say i could easliy mention venues and dj's but i'm personal friends with a lot of them lolol ...

one record i do hate is johnnie mae matthews - i have no choice ...waaaaaaaaaaay too slow

ruby andrews - just loving you is another ,jimmy ricks - oh what a feeling is too slow to be played out also in my opinion , i have it on my mp3 and love it BUT not at a venue

also anything described as a beat ballad is too slow for me , love a lot of them but to play out is just background music for me ...

i've done gigs in venues and apart from me playing upper tempo the rest of the night was rare mid tempo and beat ballads which for me is torture ...

[BrianB]

I love Soul Source. I read it every morning before I start work, I read it every lunch time, and every night after work. Love the debates, and how nobody really takes offence at whatever is said. All opinions are valid and everyone gets their say.

However, I am always suprised at the way history is re-written on here. Great records such as Tainted Love were not "Youth Club Records". Tainted Love was possibly the biggest record at the Torch in 72, (maybe next to Love You Baby by Eddie), was massive at Wigan, and was massive at the Mecca. It beggars belief that some of our correspondents do not know the history of records such as these.

Just because someone first heard it at a youth club type event, or a scooter rally doesn't mean they can assume it was only ever played there, was once great, now its old, and has "been superceded by "better records" .

The truth is the scene needs people like Paul and his mates to turn up. They don't want lecturing, they don't want to listen to oldies all night, they don't want to listen to newies all night. They don't want to be told to go to Woolies for the £4.99 bin CDs, they want to hear good Northern Soul records. It is not their fault they are young. Its not my fault I'm 51 and love oldies, newies, beat ballads, Detroit, Chicago, Philly, the Brill building sounds. I love the artistry of the west coast musicians and artistes who had to try to replicate or out do the eastern type/Motown sounds. I love Motown. Is Love is like an itching in my heart a better Northern record by Timothy Wilson? I think not, but I haven't got a problem with anyone saying it is.

In short, I love Northern Soul, but sometimes fail to see where Cotton Hayes fits in, or some of the 70ts and 80ts stuff that is played. Do I have a problem with people liking it, dancing to it, buying it? No I don't, its all part of the scene. If this is the case, why the big superior downer on classics or "records older than 3 months"?

The scene is loved by all of us. Do you want it to die with us, or do we want it to survive? Are we afraid of younger people with opinions and wanting to hear what they like?

Why pigeonhole them and tell them to go to Oldies nights, when in reality their approach is fresher than some of the Luddites on the scene, and I think we ignore them at the scene's peril. Maybe we are a little bit afraid that they may change things? I don't know, but Paul, you keep on with it son. Keep telling me about the new sounds you are hearing, please don't be afraid to ask about oldies, and stop bloody sending me text messages at 3.00am about a record you have just heard for the first time.

Actually, don't stop doing that. Keep your fresh approach, keep enthusing about all aspects of the scene, and enjoy your game of footy at the weekend.

[Guest BOO BOO]

WHAT YOU ALL FORGET WE ALL HAVE THE CHIOCE , AND IF DJn, IF THE DANCE FLOOR IS EMPTY THEN CHANGE TO ANOTHER BEAT AND SOUND TILL YOU GET THEM DANCING, BACK IN THE 80s 2 BUSES USED TO LEAVE EDINBURGH 1 FOR STAFFORD AND THE OTHER WOULD GO TO MORCAMBE PIER, WARRINTON PARR HALL, HINKLEY LESURE CENTRE, LEICESTER NOTTS ODD FELLOWS , BECAUSE WE HAD THE CHOICE.

I HATED THE LATIN STUFF AND HATE THE R& B STUFF ALSO THE PROBLEM TODAY IS THE NEW BLOOD THAT CAME IN THE 90s READ TO MUCH. I THINK DJ IT SHOULD BE A REAL RECORD ON FIRST LABEL AND ALL THE RECORDS THAT YOU TRAVELED TO HEAR WAS BECAUSE ONLY A HAND FULL OF DJs OWNED THEN BUT TODAY EBAY, WEB CITES, AND CD HAVE KILLED THE OBSCURITY.

BUT I READ SOME THREADS ON HERE AND LOVE THE RECORDS AND THE MUSIC SOME I HATE BUT OVER ALL I LOVE NORTHERN / RARE SOUL AND HAVE DONE FOR 28 YEARS FROM THE FIRST NIGHT I HEARD AND SAW PEOPLE DANCE AT THE KIRK IN THE INCH IN EDINBURGH, AND AT ALL THE ALLNIGHTERS LISTED ABOVEAND MANY MORE WHETHER IT BE 60s STOMPER MID TEMPO 2 STEP CROSSOVER 70s or 80s AND IF I DID NOT LIKE THE RECORD MY FEET WOULD CARRY ME OF THE DANCE FLOOR BUT MOST LIKLY I WOULD RETURN TO THE NEXT RECORD ,

But in the 80s i sat out a lot longer to the latin stuff and the r&b stuff played over the last few years so stop reading and who cares who the tea laby was for the label or who swept the floor of the studio if the record is good play it if they dont dance then try if again some other time if yoiu t but after all these records all speeds were played well before you came and most likly after you have left.

[Guest dundeedavie]

WHAT YOU ALL FORGET WE ALL HAVE THE CHIOCE , AND IF DJn, IF THE DANCE FLOOR IS EMPTY THEN CHANGE TO ANOTHER BEAT AND SOUND TILL YOU GET THEM DANCING, BACK IN THE 80s 2 BUSES USED TO LEAVE EDINBURGH 1 FOR STAFFORD AND THE OTHER WOULD GO TO MORCAMBE PIER, WARRINTON PARR HALL, HINKLEY LESURE CENTRE, LEICESTER NOTTS ODD FELLOWS , BECAUSE WE HAD THE CHOICE.

I HATED THE LATIN STUFF AND HATE THE R& B STUFF ALSO THE PROBLEM TODAY IS THE NEW BLOOD THAT CAME IN THE 90s READ TO MUCH. I THINK DJ IT SHOULD BE A REAL RECORD ON FIRST LABEL AND ALL THE RECORDS THAT YOU TRAVELED TO HEAR WAS BECAUSE ONLY A HAND FULL OF DJs OWNED THEN BUT TODAY EBAY, WEB CITES, AND CD HAVE KILLED THE OBSCURITY.

BUT I READ SOME THREADS ON HERE AND LOVE THE RECORDS AND THE MUSIC SOME I HATE BUT OVER ALL I LOVE NORTHERN / RARE SOUL AND HAVE DONE FOR 28 YEARS FROM THE FIRST NIGHT I HEARD AND SAW PEOPLE DANCE AT THE KIRK IN THE INCH IN EDINBURGH, AND AT ALL THE ALLNIGHTERS LISTED ABOVEAND MANY MORE WHETHER IT BE 60s STOMPER MID TEMPO 2 STEP CROSSOVER 70s or 80s AND IF I DID NOT LIKE THE RECORD MY FEET WOULD CARRY ME OF THE DANCE FLOOR BUT MOST LIKLY I WOULD RETURN TO THE NEXT RECORD ,

But in the 80s i sat out a lot longer to the latin stuff and the r&b stuff played over the last few years so stop reading and who cares who the tea laby was for the label or who swept the floor of the studio if the record is good play it if they dont dance then try if again some other time if yoiu t but after all these records all speeds were played well before you came and most likly after you have left.

hey we all have individual taste and we express it , nothing wrong in that nor will there ever be ..we vote with our feet , support the venues we like and in some cases run the venues with policies we like , as it should be .

and the reason why the likes of prestatyn had at least 4 rooms ..diversity in taste is what drives it along

Davie

[Guest Dan]

I love Soul Source. I read it every morning before I start work, I read it every lunch time, and every night after work. Love the debates, and how nobody really takes offence at whatever is said. All opinions are valid and everyone gets their say.

However, I am always suprised at the way history is re-written on here. Great records such as Tainted Love were not "Youth Club Records". Tainted Love was possibly the biggest record at the Torch in 72, (maybe next to Love You Baby by Eddie), was massive at Wigan, and was massive at the Mecca. It beggars belief that some of our correspondents do not know the history of records such as these.

Just because someone first heard it at a youth club type event, or a scooter rally doesn't mean they can assume it was only ever played there, was once great, now its old, and has "been superceded by "better records" .

The truth is the scene needs people like Paul and his mates to turn up. They don't want lecturing, they don't want to listen to oldies all night, they don't want to listen to newies all night. They don't want to be told to go to Woolies for the £4.99 bin CDs, they want to hear good Northern Soul records. It is not their fault they are young. Its not my fault I'm 51 and love oldies, newies, beat ballads, Detroit, Chicago, Philly, the Brill building sounds. I love the artistry of the west coast musicians and artistes who had to try to replicate or out do the eastern type/Motown sounds. I love Motown. Is Love is like an itching in my heart a better Northern record by Timothy Wilson? I think not, but I haven't got a problem with anyone saying it is.

In short, I love Northern Soul, but sometimes fail to see where Cotton Hayes fits in, or some of the 70ts and 80ts stuff that is played. Do I have a problem with people liking it, dancing to it, buying it? No I don't, its all part of the scene. If this is the case, why the big superior downer on classics or "records older than 3 months"?

The scene is loved by all of us. Do you want it to die with us, or do we want it to survive? Are we afraid of younger people with opinions and wanting to hear what they like?

Why pigeonhole them and tell them to go to Oldies nights, when in reality their approach is fresher than some of the Luddites on the scene, and I think we ignore them at the scene's peril. Maybe we are a little bit afraid that they may change things? I don't know, but Paul, you keep on with it son. Keep telling me about the new sounds you are hearing, please don't be afraid to ask about oldies, and stop bloody sending me text messages at 3.00am about a record you have just heard for the first time.

Actually, don't stop doing that. Keep your fresh approach, keep enthusing about all aspects of the scene, and enjoy your game of footy at the weekend.

if you read my posts you'll see i agree with a lot of what you say brian. if you check historically you'll see i'm often to be found banging on about 'new blood' myself.

but after that we part company. largely you seem to be wilfully distorting or ignoring those parts of posts above which don't suit your argument.

a classic example is where you write: Just because someone first heard it at a youth club type event, or a scooter rally doesn't mean they can assume it was only ever played there, was once great, now its old, and has "been superceded by "better records" .

that's obviously a reference to me and tainted love. yes, i said it was a scooter rally record but i never 'assumed it was only ever played there' at all. that's bollocks, frankly. read my posts: i know its history very well. i said it was a played out oldie in the 80s (i also said it was a good record, which it is, though many others of that vintage aren't IMO).

equally, no-one (well not me, anyway) is rewriting history, pigeonholing anyone, telling anyone to go to oldies nights, lecturing anyone or telling people to buy CDs for £4.99 at woolies.

i frankly - literally - couldn't care less what other people listen to, it's their call. you can stick tainted love on a 10 hour loop tape and play it to yourself in your sleep if it makes you happy.

[Guest ScooterNik]

Firstly, as one of those scooter rally/party DJs in question I think it fair to point out that generally I, and most other DJs i know, try and avoid playing stuff like The Snake, OOTF etc BUT if I get asked for them more than a couple of times I'll play them. Its my job to keep the dance floor full, not to show off my musical knowledge. I could play unknowns (on the rally scene anyway) all night but won't as I like getting asked back!

Secondly, where this thread seems to have gone off track is that the original post was about 'good' records, not about their position/relevence to the soul scene? IMHO a record doesn't stop being 'good' because its old, it merely becomes 'oh ffs not again?'. How many are there out there that have had their moment but remain a good, dancable record? It must run into thousands by now?

You don't have to play the done to death stuff, just oldies that you can dance to?

[BrianB]

if you read my posts you'll see i agree with a lot of what you say brian. if you check historically you'll see i'm often to be found banging on about 'new blood' myself.

but after that we part company. largely you seem to be wilfully distorting or ignoring those parts of posts above which don't suit your argument.

a classic example is where you write: Just because someone first heard it at a youth club type event, or a scooter rally doesn't mean they can assume it was only ever played there, was once great, now its old, and has "been superceded by "better records" .

that's obviously a reference to me and tainted love. yes, i said it was a scooter rally record but i never 'assumed it was only ever played there' at all. that's bollocks, frankly. read my posts: i know its history very well. i said it was a played out oldie in the 80s (i also said it was a good record, which it is, though many others of that vintage aren't IMO).

equally, no-one (well not me, anyway) is rewriting history, pigeonholing anyone, telling anyone to go to oldies nights, lecturing anyone or telling people to buy CDs for £4.99 at woolies.

i frankly - literally - couldn't care less what other people listen to, it's their call. you can stick tainted love on a 10 hour loop tape and play it to yourself in your sleep if it makes you happy.

Hi Dan,

This is my point exactly. When did I get agressive in my post? Your reply is agressive because you don't like what I say. I've better things to do than listen to any record for 10 hours. If you can't care less what other people listen to, then do you see a scene in the future if everyone had that type of attitude?

Again, this is why I like Soul Source, 'cos we don't have to agree. I may not agree with your comments above Dan, but as the saying goes, I'll defend your right to make them, cos thats what the scene is all about. But don't tell the new blood what to listen to, or not what to listen to, or they'll go somewhere where they are made more welcome than is sometimes the case on our scene.

In Burnley, my home town, I have seen people not let in to soul nights solely because they were young. Paul has had to personally vouch for them A friendly scene, or a narrow misguided scene that cannot see past next weeks do's?

[Guest Dan]

Hi Dan,

This is my point exactly. When did I get agressive in my post? Your reply is agressive because you don't like what I say. I've better things to do than listen to any record for 10 hours. If you can't care less what other people listen to, then do you see a scene in the future if everyone had that type of attitude?

Again, this is why I like Soul Source, 'cos we don't have to agree. I may not agree with your comments above Dan, but as the saying goes, I'll defend your right to make them, cos thats what the scene is all about. But don't tell the new blood what to listen to, or not what to listen to, or they'll go somewhere where they are made more welcome than is sometimes the case on our scene.

In Burnley, my home town, I have seen people not let in to soul nights solely because they were young. Paul has had to personally vouch for them A friendly scene, or a narrow misguided scene that cannot see past next weeks do's?

i wasn't being aggressive brian - vaguely sarcastic, maybe. i just felt you were putting words and views into my mouth, something you actually seem to be doing it again in this post unless i'm reading it wrong ('But don't tell the new blood what to listen to, or not what to listen to'...i'm not, am i? ). thus, i felt it was a good idea to set the record straight vis a vis what i said and what i think, as though anyone cares or will even read this far .