King Moses - Someone Got A Bargain

[Jim G]

So King Moses is up for sale for £5000 here: https://www.rarenorthernsoul.com/Rare-70s-80s/23902/ive-got-this-feeling/#product

This one in August went for $252 dollars, wow someone got a real bargain !!!

https://www.popsike.com/HOLYGRAIL-LOUISVILLE-RAREST-FUNK-KING-MOSES-I-FORGOT-TO-SAYPET-RECORDS/221092732241.html

[Dave Pinch]

steve jeffries..only vg but still a bargain

[John Reed]

Listening to the clip on the site, £5k is a lot of money for something which I consider to be virtually unplayable. The only part where the crackles seem to be less of an issue is during the awful guitar bit.

Never seen the point in owning a f*cked record play wise, just to say you've got a copy. It's complete madness.

Edited November 29, 2012 by John Reed

[Barry]

Listening to the clip on the site, £5k is a lot of money for something which I consider to be virtually unplayable. The only part where the crackles seem to be less of an issue is during the awful guitar bit.

Never seen the point in owning a f*cked record play wise, just to say you've got a copy. It's complete madness.

I know what you mean but people do John - watched a completely gashed - and I mean, completely unplayably GASHED - copy of Charles Johnson go for £70+

[Dave Pinch]

Listening to the clip on the site, £5k is a lot of money for something which I consider to be virtually unplayable. The only part where the crackles seem to be less of an issue is during the awful guitar bit.

Never seen the point in owning a f*cked record play wise, just to say you've got a copy. It's complete madness.

the 5k copy is clean...the £175 is beat but plays thru a big price difference john,,,,,if i`d have seen it i would have bought it it might scrub up a bit.

[Steve G]

The mint copy is a real bargain. The Steve J copy - I remember when he got it. He first played it just before I was due to go on at a Soul people event in Preston a couple of years ago (not that I was planning on playing my copy anyway). It sounded pretty "noisy".

[Ady Potts]

I think that guitarist just happened to be wandering past the studio half way through the recording, then popped his head around the corner & let rip !!

Blimey, what a noise.

[Arthur Fenn]

Funny how the G copy has gone to vg- are they not one & the same?

[Dave Pinch]

sorry my post was confusing as i never listened to the link but john reed and jim.g are correct. steve jeffries did get a bargain when he bought this for £150 but i think maybe he is pushing it a little bit at £5k in that condition

[Dave Pinch]

and its not the same copy he played before you stevie g...steve j only bought this copy on ebay a couple of monthe ago

[paultp]

That's the first time I've heard that tune, sounds a really good tune. Unfortunately it contains one of my top 5 reasons not to buy a record which is - talking at the start.

The copy for sale at 5K also has another 2 of my top 5 reasons for not buying a record - it is too expensive and it is knackered

For any pedants, my other two top 5 reasons for not buying a record are; it mentions any sort of dance craze e.g. "do the monkey" and finally if it has any sort of awful lyric (the best example I can think of off the top of my head is from For Crying Out Loud where he sings "I was so happy/So ginger and snappy" - ugh!)

[Chalky]

That's the first time I've heard that tune, sounds a really good tune. Unfortunately it contains one of my top 5 reasons not to buy a record which is - talking at the start.

The copy for sale at 5K also has another 2 of my top 5 reasons for not buying a record - it is too expensive and it is knackered

For any pedants, my other two top 5 reasons for not buying a record are; it mentions any sort of dance craze e.g. "do the monkey" and finally if it has any sort of awful lyric (the best example I can think of off the top of my head is from For Crying Out Loud where he sings "I was so happy/So ginger and snappy" - ugh!)

Have you not heard the guitar solo? That would be six reasons

[NEV]

and its not the same copy he played before you stevie g...steve j only bought this copy on ebay a couple of monthe ago

If it was the copy on eBay a few months back from the seller ..Nashville guitars out of Indiana ?

He also had the Hamiltin movement that went cheap too .

I remember the listing and the sound file of king Moses and I'm sure it had a big scratch on both sides that skipped on the sound files ?

The Hamilton movement ended up with someone I know ,who said it plays decent .

[paultp]

Have you not heard the guitar solo? That would be six reasons

Listened to the whole thing now - jeeez! Can you imagine dancing to it and not knowing what comes next?

That has got to be dubbed on afterwards? The producer must have decided it needed something else and said "I know just the thing"

If that guitarist had started up doing that live in the studio during the recording surely the rest of the band would have slapped him about and started again or summat? Maybe he just told them it was the new, new thing - trust me.

Edited November 29, 2012 by paultp

[Marc Forrest]

So King Moses is up for sale for £5000 here: https://www.rarenorth...eeling/#product

This one in August went for $252 dollars, wow someone got a real bargain !!!

https://www.popsike.c...1092732241.html

you know what..I saw it and wasnt even bothered. At a guess a few felt the same way.

[NEV]

you know what..I saw it and wasnt even bothered. At a guess a few felt the same way.

Very true Marc ..this copy is that copy ,but from memory Steve did have his original copy up for sale about a yr or so back and for £6k ..and it too sounded naff.

Lars has the best copy in the world as far as i remember

[Marc Forrest]

Very true Marc ..this copy is that copy ,but from memory Steve did have his original copy up for sale about a yr or so back and for £6k ..and it too sounded naff.

Lars has the best copy in the world as far as i remember

problem is: all copies feature that awful guitar though ;)

[arnie j]

5K ??!!! thats bloody terrible,the guitar thing is horrendous (to me)even without the awful guitar and in mint condition would someone really pay 5 thousand pounds for it ? ive just received a record i paid £20 for and i wouldnt swap it for that,sorry but its just my opinion(and i know that doesnt count for much)it just proves that sometimes rarity means more than quality

jason

[Jim G]

problem is: all copies feature that awful guitar though ;)

Yep the guitar is strange. As a record it is only OK, but rarity trumps quality, so its gets played I guess.

[Dave Pinch]

i hate the lead vocal also ugh

[Simon M]

Did anyone find out who got this first? Poke or John Vincent it boiled down to from Soul Bowl

Edited November 29, 2012 by Simon M

[Arthur Fenn]

I allways figured it was a Poke record along with mark four, raj, horizon & 1 or 2 other tasty bits, all from the bowl of course

[Garethx]

The guitar solo is the only good bit.

[Andreas B]

I guess the £5 boot I have of this is OK to play out, because even if the sound quality is absolute sh*t, at least it doesn't skip?

[Guest Dave Turner]

Really, really love the deep soul flip (on Pet) "I Forgot To Say (I Love You)"

[Andreas B]

also, that boot has an edit version without the guitar solo.

but seriously, of the boots I do own, that one is the the shoddiest.

Edited November 29, 2012 by AndreasB

[Guest smudgesmith]

I allways figured it was a Poke record along with mark four, raj, horizon & 1 or 2 other tasty bits, all from the bowl of course

It was Poke Arthur!He then returned it JA because he could not get a dance floor reaction.It then was resold to JV about a million years ago LOL

[Steve G]

Lars has the best copy in the world as far as i remember

Lars got a real bargain with it too! Mines the old Soul Bowl / Poke / JV/ NCFC/ Ian Clark/ Sam copy. At least 6 previous loving owners

And BTW - LOVE the guitar break - it sums up everything those Parrliament type dudes were up to back at the end of the 70s. If you look at the youtube clip of KM he was right in that bag. Not everyone's cup of tea I know.

[NEV]

Lars got a real bargain with it too! Mines the old Soul Bowl / Poke / JV/ NCFC/ Ian Clark/ Sam copy. At least 6 previous loving owners

And BTW - LOVE the guitar break - it sums up everything those Parrliament type dudes were up to back at the end of the 70s. If you look at the youtube clip of KM he was right in that bag. Not everyone's cup of tea I know.

I've heard and got a few records that have guitar breaks in em and it doesn't affect my judgement .

Hammond organs probably irritate me more ,but that said ,some of my records feature Hammond organ ,so it's more a case of taking the whole record into consideration.

That said ,If I didn't know this and was thinking of buying it and the seller had cut the soundfile before that guitar break ..I would be disappointed after paying a four figure sum

To be fair though it sounds great played out is a dance floor winner and the guitar break doesn't stop em

[Arthur Fenn]

It was Poke Arthur!He then returned it JA because he could not get a dance floor reaction.It then was resold to JV about a million years ago LOL

It went back to John when he sold up, in fact all his 45's were supposed to go back but Rich Broughton had some bits for sale at stafford one night & i got the bros gilmore for £25, boy was J A miffed , a few weeks later Sam & i went to soul bowl & bought most of the choice bits, among them being for Sam, K Moses ( i'm sure but i'll check ), Mark Four, Horizon & for me Raj, Split Decision & others i can't recall, all tho between £50 to £100 each

[Arthur Fenn]

It went back to John when he sold up, in fact all his 45's were supposed to go back but Rich Broughton had some bits for sale at stafford one night & i got the bros gilmore for £25, boy was J A miffed , a few weeks later Sam & i went to soul bowl & bought most of the choice bits, among them being for Sam, K Moses ( i'm sure but i'll check ), Mark Four, Horizon & for me Raj, Split Decision & others i can't recall, all tho between £50 to £100 each

Lars got a real bargain with it too! Mines the old Soul Bowl / Poke / JV/ NCFC/ Ian Clark/ Sam copy. At least 6 previous loving owners

And BTW - LOVE the guitar break - it sums up everything those Parrliament type dudes were up to back at the end of the 70s. If you look at the youtube clip of KM he was right in that bag. Not everyone's cup of tea I know.

Just reading Steve's post & i know Sam had this twice ( 2nd time off clarkey's action 15ish yrs ago ), so pretty sure Sam got Poke's bout 83, jeez such a long time ago!

[Simon M]

Thanks Arthur , I always remember it that way until s-s threw some doubts up .around 2004

ps. Robin got Hugh Boyton , which I think steve has now .

Edited November 30, 2012 by Simon M

[Benji]

Arthur, am just curious. Which Horizon track?

[Simon M]

The Horizon track was "They dont make em like you" Pokes Three Way Split coverup

Edited November 30, 2012 by Simon M

[Benji]

The Horizon track was "They dont make em like you" Pokes Three Way Split coverup

Thanks. I suspected it to be that one but didn't know it was that rare/expensive back then.

[Simon M]

Thanks. I suspected it to be that one but didn't know it was that rare/expensive back then.

I must admit so many records were rare back then . Ebay/internet etc has unearthed so many . Although things like Horizon , Hugh Boynton etc got a second press by the lables

Edited November 30, 2012 by Simon M

[Arthur Fenn]

Arthur, am just curious. Which Horizon track?

Yes thats the one Benji, as Simon said things were very different in the early 80's, without the likes of the bowl you had to get on yr bike & find em yr self

[Dave Pinch]

which is the first press of the horizon 45......theres been a guy selling orange copies on ebay the last 2 years only lettin one out every couple o months.. not expensive mind

[Mike Lofthouse]

Never understand the point of sales like this - i.e sold as a OK for DJing, if it has been owned and played out by so many of the big name DJ's over the past 20 years or so surely it is a 'played out' oldie? what kudos would be gained by playing it? what pleasure would be gained by owning it and playing it on your Hi Fi at home? Think I would rather hear an underplayed Curtis Mayfield track!

Mind I do find it interesting hearing about its history on the scene - and others like it - from those who were around at the time.

Mike

[Benji]

which is the first press of the horizon 45......theres been a guy selling orange copies on ebay the last 2 years only lettin one out every couple o months.. not expensive mind

orange is 2nd as far as I know. 1st press had P/S and I think, was multi-coloured.

[Rich B]

I can definitely add that the copy Poke had was split on the run in groove, it didn't crackle like the one in the soundfile though. It 'lived' at my flat for a while when i was selling some of his records - personally I love it, always have, guitar or no guitar!

[Guest Nick Harrison]

It went back to John when he sold up, in fact all his 45's were supposed to go back but Rich Broughton had some bits for sale at stafford one night & i got the bros gilmore for £25, boy was J A miffed , a few weeks later Sam & i went to soul bowl & bought most of the choice bits, among them being for Sam, K Moses ( i'm sure but i'll check ), Mark Four, Horizon & for me Raj, Split Decision & others i can't recall, all tho between £50 to £100 each

Was Fluorescent Smog included in your above post - Arthur !! (Another ex Poke tune).

[Steve G]

Nick, Sam had Fluorescent Smogg first. It was after Poke mid 80s, I was there at The Bowl in the barn - it was in Sam's play pile of things that John had selected and when he played it I thought "What the hell - you can't be serious?" etc. I couldn't square it with what was going down and I don't think John did either, since it was a fiver or ten quid - i.e. cheap.

Sam could see it, and eventually I "got what that record was about". Took me many years to get a copy. Today I still love both sides.

.....

Thing is for those knocking King Moses (and we might as well do F.Smogg as well before the "it's average" crowd pile in with their usual comments), and I appreciate some people simply don't get it, but...... back then these were the holy grail records for people into rare modern, along with Mark IV, Larom Baker etc. You can scoff all you like about "mediocre" and I'll disagree all day - but at least appreciate these records in the context of the era. Interesting that many of the knockers were not on the scene then or were "taking a break"

Edited November 30, 2012 by Steve G

[NEV]

Nick, Sam had Fluorescent Smogg first. It was after Poke mid 80s, I was there at The Bowl in the barn - it was in Sam's play pile of things that John had selected and when he played it I thought "What the hell - you can't be serious?" etc. I couldn't square it with what was going down and I don't think John did either, since it was a fiver or ten quid - i.e. cheap.

Sam could see it, and eventually I "got what that record was about". Took me many years to get a copy. Today I still love both sides.

.....

Thing is for those knocking King Moses (and we might as well do F.Smogg as well before the "it's average" crowd pile in with their usual comments), and I appreciate some people simply don't get it, but...... back then these were the holy grail records for people into rare modern, along with Mark IV, Larom Baker etc. You can scoff all you like about "mediocre" and I'll disagree all day - but at least appreciate these records in the context of the era. Interesting that many of the knockers were not on the scene then or were "taking a break"

Steve ,would that be the context of the era the records first turned up on the scene ,or at the time they were conceived ?

I would actually prefer to have been in the USA in the early 70's rubbing shoulders with band members who were performing these tunes live .

I'm with Mike when he says how interesting it is hearing the stories about how the records were broke and by whome .

But people are entitled to dissect a record and give an opinion ,as long as its constructive opposed to "it's shite " comments !

[Guest Dave Turner]

As a memory jogger I've just dug out a cassette (one of many, mainly deep soul) Poke sent me in the 80s

Horizon - Don't Make 'em Like You

Cindie Harris - Dance me, Swing Me

Al McCall - Hard Times

Four Tops - Let Me Set You Free

Bill Harris - Am I Cold, Am I Hot

Earl White Jr - Very Special Girl

Sidney Joe Qualls - I Don't Do This

Geater - Breath Taking Girl

Vernon Burch - Never Can Find A Way

Young Devines - Ain't That Sharp (inst)

Greg Diamond - Bring Back Your Love

Chosen Few Band - What It Takes To Live

Winston Hewitt - I'm Feeling Good

Paul Thompson - Special Kind Of Woman

Brothers Gilmore - I Feel A Song

Raj - Something Inside

Mark IV - If You Can't Tell Me Something Good

King Moses - I've Got This Feeling

Split Decision - Watching Out

Hugh Boynton - We're Gonna Make It

Mind & matter - I'm Under Your Spell

Flight - Playing Your Games

Maurice Jackson - True Love Is You ........................................... (flip it over WOW)

Colors - Am I Gonna Be The One

Marvin Ruffin - This Thing Called Love

[Steve G]

Steve ,would that be the context of the era the records first turned up on the scene ,or at the time they were conceived ?

I would actually prefer to have been in the USA in the early 70's rubbing shoulders with band members who were performing these tunes live .

I'm with Mike when he says how interesting it is hearing the stories about how the records were broke and by whome .

But people are entitled to dissect a record and give an opinion ,as long as its constructive opposed to "it's shite " comments !

I was referring to the context of the scene when these records were getting discovered and we were all trying to find them after the first copy / copies had been found. It made travelling to Sheffield, Warrington, or Snaith essential to hear the latest discoveries, much the same as the northern scene.

No one was rubbing shoulders with these singers that's why the records were so rare. I mean John A had got to Wil Garrison's WG set up in the late 70s with 7th Wonder and imported loads of copies. But F Smogg didn't turn up at all til the mid 80s, about 8 years later, although it's a late 70s record. Of course we'd all have liked to have been in the studio when these artists were laying em down, that goes without saying, and apart from John who was going every six weeks or so, people like Arthur went to the States to meet the producers / artists / get records etc. So were others John M, Dave Raistrick, Dave Withers, were all regulars and a few others I've forgotten.

On the comments, yes of course constructive criticism is fine...but some of the ones we see I can write for the posters.

[NEV]

I was referring to the context of the scene when these records were getting discovered and we were all trying to find them after the first copy / copies had been found. It made travelling to Sheffield, Warrington, or Snaith essential to hear the latest discoveries, much the same as the northern scene.

No one was rubbing shoulders with these singers that's why the records were so rare. I mean John A had got to Wil Garrison's WG set up in the late 70s with 7th Wonder and imported loads of copies. But F Smogg didn't turn up at all til the mid 80s, about 8 years later, although it's a late 70s record. Of course we'd all have liked to have been in the studio when these artists were laying em down, that goes without saying, and apart from John who was going every six weeks or so, people like Arthur went to the States to meet the producers / artists / get records etc. So were others John M, Dave Raistrick, Dave Withers, were all regulars and a few others I've forgotten.

On the comments, yes of course constructive criticism is fine...but some of the ones we see I can write for the posters.

We've all grew up with lads who were or are in local bands ..and i'll put money on that these guys were gigging back in the day ,but locally ,hence giving records to their mates to promote themselves ...and its probably the reason why the King Moses copies are trashed .... they've definitely had a lot of needle wear .

If theyd all turned up in a box ,mint unplayed and found in a record studio owners garage ,or old radio station stock etc ,yes ,but a lot of big rare 45's ,are often trashed ..Jason's copy and the recent ebay copies of the United sounds ,two fo 5 copies that i know of obviously had play .

Often youtube links lay reference from friends who grew up with artists ,who remember listening to them at local gigs etc ...

Soul incorporated on coconut groove in look at your box .. the band played ,but had never been in a studio before that record .

Look at the sleeve notes of the O'l Viriginia cd and theres pictures of the bands and plenty of references to back it up .

But you answered my initial question Steve

[Guest OSCARP]

A bit off original topic but F. smogg is just one great record , lots of things happening, lovely production and vocals. Things that make you go mmmmmmmmmm

[Steve G]

We've all grew up with lads who were or are in local bands ..and i'll put money on that these guys were gigging back in the day ,but locally ,hence giving records to their mates to promote themselves ...and its probably the reason why the King Moses copies are trashed .... they've definitely had a lot of needle wear .

If theyd all turned up in a box ,mint unplayed and found in a record studio owners garage ,or old radio station stock etc ,yes ,but a lot of big rare 45's ,are often trashed ..Jason's copy and the recent ebay copies of the United sounds ,two fo 5 copies that i know of obviously had play .

Often youtube links lay reference from friends who grew up with artists ,who remember listening to them at local gigs etc ...

Soul incorporated on coconut groove in look at your box .. the band played ,but had never been in a studio before that record .

Look at the sleeve notes of the O'l Viriginia cd and theres pictures of the bands and plenty of references to back it up .

But you answered my initial question Steve

All true but by "no one" I meant us lot here, not the friends of the bands and singers who obviously had access to the singers they knew, but at the same time wouldn't know who was making records in the next town 10 miles away.

[Robin S]

I can definitely add that the copy Poke had was split on the run in groove, it didn't crackle like the one in the soundfile though. It 'lived' at my flat for a while when i was selling some of his records - personally I love it, always have, guitar or no guitar!

Hi Richard, trust you're keeping well... Yes, remember calling around your flat in Nottingham with Ozzie one Monday night in '86 and getting Hugh Boynton for £80, Charisma Band for a fiver or less, and Young Devines "Ain't That Sharp". A most enjoyable evening!