Just When You Thought N S Prices Were Stabilising

[Guest Brian Ellis]

Melvin Moore "All of a Sudden" on JM's auction just sold @ £951 - Phew!!!

Brian

Edited February 22, 2006 by Brian Ellis

[Ted Massey]

Melvin Moore "All of a Sudden" on JM's auction just sold @ £951 - Phew!!!

Brian

mind you Frank Beverely takes some beating and last week Lord luther 300+ what an overprice shite record

[Guest Dan]

John's a member on here now. So come on John, not expecting a name...just let us know, does he live in Rampton or Broadmoor?

[Chalky]

didn't know prices were stabillizing? still see plenty of evidence on a regular basis to the contrary, plenty still willing to pay daft prices

[Pete S]

didn't know prices were stabillizing? still see plenty of evidence on a regular basis to the contrary, plenty still willing to pay daft prices

At venues maybe, but on the home front it's about 50% down on usual and you can ask any dealer and they'll tell you the same - I know, I've asked them!

[Guest Dan]

At venues maybe, but on the home front it's about 50% down on usual and you can ask any dealer and they'll tell you the same - I know, I've asked them!

was just going to say pete, prices are definitely coming down and a good thing too

[Mark Bicknell]

was just going to say pete, prices are definitely coming down and a good thing too

Here! Here! and say so all of us....now perhaps we can start getting some of the records we all want...lol

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Girthdevon]

Melvin Moore "All of a Sudden" on JM's auction just sold @ £951 - Phew!!!

Brian

Since when was this a NS record

Still a shocker tho' - i'd say at least double what it's worth - there's hundreds of these around in collections !!

Girf

[Guest Baz]

Dont think the 'top end' of the market will be affected, but you can just see from looking on here and trying to shift a few myself in the past it aint easy, things in the 'upto £500' bracket are getting so hard to shift, ok the current flavours of the month are always going to be over priced too many people wanting to play the same record and all that, they will fly but as you can see again what happens when the 'hype' has gone the price drops drematicly, i say stay away from them suckers, i really do hope prices contiue to fall steadly, its just getting so stupid in the last 5 years or so.

[Mark Bicknell]

Dont think the 'top end' of the market will be affected, but you can just see from looking on here and trying to shift a few myself in the past it aint easy, things in the 'upto £500' bracket are getting so hard to shift, ok the current flavours of the month are always going to be over priced too many people wanting to play the same record and all that, they will fly but as you can see again what happens when the 'hype' has gone the price drops drematicly, i say stay away from them suckers, i really do hope prices contiue to fall steadly, its just getting so stupid in the last 5 years or so.

Baz, I totally agree with you mate, i'm currently soughting out a few things to move on but i'm scared to price them to be honest, made mistakes in the past but that's part of the game i guess, i think it's on the slide as you say on certain titles, too many of them in circulation, not half as rare as people think even on some of the so called big ticket items, bit when you see records like 'Gene Woodbury' for example selling on a recent auction for over £300.00 it really makes you think, not the fault of the seller more perhaps to do with a combination of things, Ebay, price guides etc. etc. one question what are we going to do when the bottom does fall apart with this? perhaps the hardcore soul fans/collectors won't mind as the records were bought for enjoyment and love rather than an investment or ego trip....strange world this Northern Soul lark......lol

Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Baz]

Baz, I totally agree with you mate, i'm currently soughting out a few things to move on but i'm scared to price them to be honest, made mistakes in the past but that's part of the game i guess, i think it's on the slide as you say on certain titles, too many of them in circulation, not half as rare as people think even on some of the so called big ticket items, bit when you see records like 'Gene Woodbury' for example selling on a recent auction for over £300.00 it really makes you think, not the fault of the seller more perhaps to do with a combination of things, Ebay, price guides etc. etc. one question what are we going to do when the bottom does fall apart with this? perhaps the hardcore soul fans/collectors won't mind as the records were bought for enjoyment and love rather than an investment or ego trip....strange world this Northern Soul lark......lol

Mark Bicknell.

Funny you should mention the Gene Woodbury Mark, in my slightly less than 8 years on the scene, i have seen more Bernue Williams than Genes 'Up for grabs' so is £300 really that bad? like i say only being a young wipper snapper i've not had the experiance of looking through boxs for 20 odd years, ok they were proberly in box's every where you went years ago? just seems there is none in ciurclation any more

I mean we've all payed slightly over the top for a few things i know i have, such as the Spiedells cost me £350 BUT i've been searching high and low for one in recent times and to find one was a hard task, so is that really a bad price? i dont know? Like (and to quote Chalky) all records you pay the price and take your chance, Im pretty certain Ebay has had 75% to do with price drops, because you can pick plenty up from there at a cut price. apart from demand titles such as Pat & the blenders, cant see the logic in people paying that price for a record that seems to be in circulation.....but then the whole supply demand thing comes into play, My god i've gone off on a tangent with no reall relevance, its a complicated thing this record collecting

[Guest 50box]

perhaps the hardcore soul fans/collectors won't mind as the records were bought for enjoyment and love rather than an investment or ego trip....strange world this Northern Soul lark......lol

Mark Bicknell.

=------=-=--------=-=

Think you`re right Mark, most I know who sell up are desperate for cash. Don`t think of mine as money, though I keep an eye on it so I can say ha ha I`ve got that

[Ted Massey]

Funny you should mention the Gene Woodbury Mark, in my slightly less than 8 years on the scene, i have seen more Bernue Williams than Genes 'Up for grabs' so is £300 really that bad? like i say only being a young wipper snapper i've not had the experiance of looking through boxs for 20 odd years, ok they were proberly in box's every where you went years ago? just seems there is none in ciurclation any more

I mean we've all payed slightly over the top for a few things i know i have, such as the Spiedells cost me £350 BUT i've been searching high and low for one in recent times and to find one was a hard task, so is that really a bad price? i dont know? Like (and to quote Chalky) all records you pay the price and take your chance, Im pretty certain Ebay has had 75% to do with price drops, because you can pick plenty up from there at a cut price. apart from demand titles such as Pat & the blenders, cant see the logic in people paying that price for a record that seems to be in circulation.....but then the whole supply demand thing comes into play, My god i've gone off on a tangent with no reall relevance, its a complicated thing this record collecting

Hi Baz

think the Bernie williams has been seen more because the first one to appear in a long time fetched so much money so people were cashing in now that G W has gone for 300+ im sure a few will surface because that was only ever a £5 record wish i had kept mine now

Ted

[Mark Bicknell]

Hi Baz

think the Bernie williams has been seen more because the first one to appear in a long time fetched so much money so people were cashing in now that G W has gone for 300+ im sure a few will surface because that was only ever a £5 record wish i had kept mine now

Ted

A fiver Ted....bugger i got ripped off then as i paid £8.00 for mine off Soul Bowl....oh well like i've always said Bernie Williams for show and Gene Woodbury can sing....lol.

Mark Bicknell.

[Ted Massey]

A fiver Ted....bugger i got ripped off then as i paid £8.00 for mine off Soul Bowl....oh well like i've always said Bernie Williams for show and Gene Woodbury can sing....lol.

Mark Bicknell.

Sounds like someone has hold of his knackers

[Peter Richer]

Hi All,

It was me who bought the Gene Woodbury for £300 (well, £309 to be precise!). I paid that because I particularly wanted it in my collection and, as Baz says, it doesn't seem to come up for sale anymore and it was in beautiful condition.

I'm sure it was Pottsy who had one on E-bay a few months back but I wasn't around to bid on it. I think it went for over £200 but I could be wrong there. (Anyone know?) In the past two years I have asked at least 4 dealers if they could get hold of a GW for me, none of whom had had a copy for a while, although one did have a Bernie Williams in stock! But like Ted says there may be more come out of the woodwork now.

On a number of occasions members on here have wondered what 'lunatics' buy from John's auctions. Well I had a quick count up this morning and I have bought at least 15 items, and sold one. Many people believe I'm bonkers anyway, but on most of these records I've paid a fair price (or a little over, if I really want the record and it rarely comes up for sale). For example I had:

Dean Courtney - Love, You Just Can't Walk Away - MGM ... £250

Patrice Holloway - Stolen Hours - Capitol ... £250

Andrea Henry - I Need You Like A Baby - MGM (black issue) ... £400

Sam & Kitty - I've Got Something Good - Four Brothers (west coast demo) ... £195

Velvet Satins - Nothing Can Compare To You - General American (white demo with no red swirl) ... £330

Inspirations - Your Wish Is My Command - Midas ... £530

All in near mint condition!!

And, I know the records will arrive safely next day. And, I know I can send them back if I don't like what I get!

OK, I may have paid a little over the odds for a couple on Shrine, but how often will I get the chance to pick up a really good copy of Les Chansonettes or a decent, playable copy of the Cavaliers??

I know some of the prices John's Auctions fetch are amazing, and indeed more than a little disappointing if a couple of people go mad over a record you wanted to bid on (and it only takes two wealthy and desperate punters to send the price into orbit)! It's even more baffling when the records are clearly rubbish or pop, but there's no accounting for taste!

Yesterday I wanted to buy Frankie Beverly - Because Of My Heart, but not at over £1,900 !!!

Unfortunately there are sometimes adverse knock on effects on prices. Everybody knows the Masqueraders - How should not really be worth £1,100, but nobody will now sell me one for a sensibly high price of, say, £400 - £500. Everyone wants top auction price.

Anyway, just a perspective there from a reasonably regular JM auction buyer. Comments (and even straight-jackets) welcome!

Oh yes, and if someone wants to sell me good condition copies of the Masqueraders or Frankie Beverly at SENSIBLE prices, there's cash waiting .... !?!

Cheers,

Peter

[Harrogatesoul]

Hi All,

It was me who bought the Gene Woodbury for £300 (well, £309 to be precise!). I paid that because I particularly wanted it in my collection and, as Baz says, it doesn't seem to come up for sale anymore and it was in beautiful condition.

I'm sure it was Pottsy who had one on E-bay a few months back but I wasn't around to bid on it. I think it went for over £200 but I could be wrong there. (Anyone know?) In the past two years I have asked at least 4 dealers if they could get hold of a GW for me, none of whom had had a copy for a while, although one did have a Bernie Williams in stock! But like Ted says there may be more come out of the woodwork now.

On a number of occasions members on here have wondered what 'lunatics' buy from John's auctions. Well I had a quick count up this morning and I have bought at least 15 items, and sold one. Many people believe I'm bonkers anyway, but on most of these records I've paid a fair price (or a little over, if I really want the record and it rarely comes up for sale). For example I had:

Dean Courtney - Love, You Just Can't Walk Away - MGM ... £250

Patrice Holloway - Stolen Hours - Capitol ... £250

Andrea Henry - I Need You Like A Baby - MGM (black issue) ... £400

Sam & Kitty - I've Got Something Good - Four Brothers (west coast demo) ... £195

Velvet Satins - Nothing Can Compare To You - General American (white demo with no red swirl) ... £330

Inspirations - Your Wish Is My Command - Midas ... £530

All in near mint condition!!

And, I know the records will arrive safely next day. And, I know I can send them back if I don't like what I get!

OK, I may have paid a little over the odds for a couple on Shrine, but how often will I get the chance to pick up a really good copy of Les Chansonettes or a decent, playable copy of the Cavaliers??

I know some of the prices John's Auctions fetch are amazing, and indeed more than a little disappointing if a couple of people go mad over a record you wanted to bid on (and it only takes two wealthy and desperate punters to send the price into orbit)! It's even more baffling when the records are clearly rubbish or pop, but there's no accounting for taste!

Yesterday I wanted to buy Frankie Beverly - Because Of My Heart, but not at over £1,900 !!!

Unfortunately there are sometimes adverse knock on effects on prices. Everybody knows the Masqueraders - How should not really be worth £1,100, but nobody will now sell me one for a sensibly high price of, say, £400 - £500. Everyone wants top auction price.

Anyway, just a perspective there from a reasonably regular JM auction buyer. Comments (and even straight-jackets) welcome!

Oh yes, and if someone wants to sell me good condition copies of the Masqueraders or Frankie Beverly at SENSIBLE prices, there's cash waiting .... !?!

Cheers,

Peter

Gene Woodbury I think is a good example atr present of what ( were ) relatively comon records but are now secreted away in collections...

When I first started collecting 45s in my teens in the late 80s some of the best advice I got was from Pat Brady who told me to ' look hard at some of the cheap 45s ( £5 / 10 / 15 quid ) - great soul records... - overlooked - they'll disapear /etc etc . JM himself has pointed out the number of great 45s in the crossover thread . .

Bought a Woodbury for around a tenner / Big Daddy Rogers for a tenner / - To look at those two shows demand / prices / kept in collections have grown enourmously. How many times have we always overlooked a record due to its commom factor only to find all the copies dry up ? Hence when one comes along in an auction we go ' ooooh thats loads... ' YES a lot of 45s get over inflated but I think thats more a problem when demand is high only for it to fall back - but there seems to be a steady increase on long loved and cherished 45s -Hence Peter has to pay £300+ for a Gene Woodbury...

There's tons of great SOUL 45s out there - 5 quid to whatever - you never know..one day that cheapie you bought might rocket..... ignore good soul 45s at your peril!!!!

ATB

Rich

[Headsy]

sensible, always said it......a good record is always gonna be a good record !!!buy a good record for under ,say £50, and you are never gonna lose out because eventually these records will go up in price.LOTS of records that go for silly money now are not rare,just currently popular as people catch on to them.a £20 record in a box now is maybe rarer than a £500 current monster ( Curley Moore anyone ? ) just that nobody is looking for it or nobody is playing it ( Bill Bush anyone ? )all you can do is get as many lists as you can and watch how often things come up for sale, going to venues is fine but how many trawl through boxes at 2-3 or even 4 venues a week now to see whats for sale.?? thats why this scene keeps on re-inventing itself .

[Guest Dan]

i do think 309 is a lot to pay for gene woodbury, though i think it's better than bernie williams, and always have; i think 100 is about the right price but i could be miles out .

but as have always said - despite my rampton gag - there's no m.r.r.p. on these things, just a question of how bad you want it, whether you're prepared to wait and how deep your pockets are.

[Headsy]

Since when was this a NS record

Still a shocker tho' - i'd say at least double what it's worth - there's hundreds of these around in collections !!

Girf

thats another point,at what time do you sell a record that you know you can get a lot of money for,especially if you bought it for £5, say 20 years ago ?some people just dont want to sell them.,some do and they want the top price.

[Guest]

especially if you bought it for £5, say 20 years ago ?some people just dont want to sell them.

Thats me. I couldn't bear to part with records I bought when I was a youngster, memories tied up in every one

[Garethx]

A lot of very good points made by everybody who's contributed to this thread. I appreciate Peter Richer for coming on here and presenting his rationale as a regular John Manship auction bidder. The best advice is surely to simply buy what you want, at a price you think is reasonable. Those who express consternation at some of the auction prices would probably pay over the odds (whatever that means in the current climate) for a particular 45 that hasn't shown up in the desired condition via other avenues.

There have been numerous recent examples of 45s that were once thought of as 'collection fillers' such as The Delegates of Soul, Gene Woodbury, Larry Atkins on Highland, The Ringleaders and so on fetching prices far in advance of what they once sold for. We must remember that in the past importers such as Soul Bowl held pretty much the entire remaining stocks of records like these. They were treated in the same way any vendor would treat a commodity that was in reasonably plentiful stock in their inventory and were priced to sell: I can remember all the 45s mentioned above being on certain lists for what seemed like years at a time for under ten quid (along with things like Steve Mancha on Wheelsville), but once they were all gone from that particular source, what then?

The common denominator of all these 45s is that they are good records, and a good record will always be worth buying even if there are seemingly loads about, because in the final analysis the stocks of all these items are essentially finite. A good record will eventually have a re-sale value, even if, as in the case of Gene Woodbury, that market appears to have taken some twenty five years to form.

Sounds which have lost their value over time have done so because they aren't in the main 'good' records. Collectors who have concentrated on flavour-of-the-month rarities of questionable musical merit will inevitably sit back and scratch their heads at a £300 price tag for Gene Woodbury while a copy of something like Artus Satterfield sits perenially unsold in their box for half that figure.

Edited February 23, 2006 by garethx

[Mark Bicknell]

sensible, always said it......a good record is always gonna be a good record !!!buy a good record for under ,say £50, and you are never gonna lose out because eventually these records will go up in price.LOTS of records that go for silly money now are not rare,just currently popular as people catch on to them.a £20 record in a box now is maybe rarer than a £500 current monster ( Curley Moore anyone ? ) just that nobody is looking for it or nobody is playing it ( Bill Bush anyone ? )all you can do is get as many lists as you can and watch how often things come up for sale, going to venues is fine but how many trawl through boxes at 2-3 or even 4 venues a week now to see whats for sale.?? thats why this scene keeps on re-inventing itself .

And who got behind Curly Moore first then???? superb point here mate, cost me £8.00 from Glen Brierley at Tony's Blackburn a good few years ago now, funny how you can remember when,where and how much you paid for records yet sometimes i can't even remember my name...lol got behind this record played it out a few times then well it went mental, same for Reggie Alexander for me way back at Keele etc. Basically we have to accept how things are now or you may as well sell up tomorow, dig hard buy what floats your own personal boat and all should be well.

Mark Bicknell.

[Mark Bicknell]

Sounds like someone has hold of his knackers

It's all the shouting on BW, all the 'Huuhs's' that spoil it for me Ted, perhaps BW had no knackers mate...lol

Mark Bicknell.

[Headsy]

The common denominator of all these 45s is that they are good records, and a good record will always be worth buying even if there are seemingly loads about, because in the final analysis the stocks of all these items are essentially finite. A good record will eventually have a re-sale value, even if, as in the case of Gene Woodbury, that market appears to have taken some twenty five years to form.

Sounds which have lost their value over time have done so because they aren't in the main 'good' records. Collectors who have concentrated on flavour-of-the-month rarities of questionable musical merit will inevitably sit back and scratch their heads at a £300 price tag for Gene Woodbury while a copy of something like Artus Sattlefield sits perenially unsold in their box for half that figure.

same sorta thing as I said take Artus Satterfield for example, how many people actually know it ?saw it on a list last week for £10 which was VERY cheap IMO and rang a mate to tell him to buy it, played my copy down the phone to him and he said '' just get it for me,I like that '' cos IMO its a good record and could well be massive in the future, I bet you cannot get £50 for Bill Bush in 5 years time .

[Guest]

I remember seeing Masqueraders-How on a Pat Bady list for £75!!, around 1993. The list had just been delivered by the postman, and i rushed to the phone in antipation, but Pat said it had just gone!!!!!!!!

Since then, i have searched high and low for it, and eventually got hold of a copy that cost me, not twice as much, not three, four..........e.t.c......anyway, a bloody lot more than £75!!!!!!!!!! Possibly madness, i know, but it's a 45 i'd wanted for soooo long that i was willing to pay an extortionate amount for it! However, it made my day! and i will never sell it 'cos it IS one of my favourite songs!!!!!!!!! At the end of the day, isn't that why most of us pay extra??!!

Carl

[Pete S]

i do think 309 is a lot to pay for gene woodbury, though i think it's better than bernie williams, and always have;

Deaf ****

[Guest ShaneH]

ace spectrum - about £40 now?

what was that at its peak a few years back - £150?

[Chalky]

ace spectrum - about £40 now?

what was that at its peak a few years back - £150?

seen at £25 recently and thats over priced IMO

[Steve G]

A lot of very good points made by everybody who's contributed to this thread.

.

Agreed and Peter certainly doesn't have to justify himself or feel guilty in any way.....what he chooses to pay for a record is his business.

[Guest the dukester]

seen at £25 recently and thats over priced IMO

EXAMPLE- Baby I need Your Loving - Gayle Adams, didnt it top £200 on jm's list?? now isnt there one on here for $18

As always, its the same old same old....I bought it years ago for £6 sold it on ebay £90 last year,

Is it supply and demand? the need to have it cos dj's are playing it, (if you dj). The record means that much to you and you will stop at nothing to secure it? I too have bought from Johns Auction and see no wrong in doing so, as stated by the guy who bought GW, you know you will get it in good cond the next day!!! Not get ripped off by some scumbag from the states (I better also put UK) WHO DONT EVEN HAVE THE RECORD THEY ADVERTISE!!!!

Mr Heads is correct in saying good records will always be good records, Jackie taylor - Walkin Back so damn good and bought for pennies

[Guest Stuart T]

Deaf ****

I agree 100% with Dan.

The saving grace of the Bernie Williams is a fairly pleasant b side, but again not as good as the Gene W. And he was never in Kojak.

[Guest micksmith]

I agree 100% with Dan.

The saving grace of the Bernie Williams is a fairly pleasant b side, but again not as good as the Gene W. And he was never in Kojak.

BERNIE WILLIAMS IS THE BEST-I'VE GOT TO SAY THAT I PAID £20 FOR IT. VALUE OF GENE WOODBERRY £175- SOLD ONE A FEW LISTS AGO.

[Guest Stuart T]

BERNIE WILLIAMS IS THE BEST-I'VE GOT TO SAY THAT I PAID £20 FOR IT. VALUE OF GENE WOODBERRY £175- SOLD ONE A FEW LISTS AGO.

That much for the GW eh? I took ages getting a copy, was hard to track down and corner one, but glad I did when it was still cheaper. Doesn't seem to be around much at all. Sorry, can't get into the BW version, not sure why.

Someone told me you shaved off your moustache, is it true?

[Modernsoulsucks]

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...me=STRK:MEWA:IT

Prices stabilising my arse!!

ROD