Worlds Rarest Soul Record

[steve z]

EXCLUDING THE U.S.A. RELEASES IE FRANK WILSON OR THE SHRINE STUFF ETC.

So is it a copy that was put out in "0uter Mongolia" in a picture sleeve ONLY.Could it be a release from the U.K . only ATB Steve

If this has been done before apol's.

[pikeys dog]

I don't know about rarest, but I got a Jimmy Norman 'I Don't Love You No More' through the post on a Venezualan Little Star issue.

[Guest taffy]

SAM NESBIT - BLACK MOTHER GOOSE - UK 444 CERTAINLY THE MOST ELUSIVE.HAS ANYONE EVER FOUND THE COPY ADY SOLD IN THE 70'S?

[Guest taffy]

CHRIS JACKSON - SOUL CITY 120 ONLY KNOW OF ONE COPY

[Larsc]

EXCLUDING THE U.S.A. RELEASES IE FRANK WILSON OR THE SHRINE STUFF ETC.

So is it a copy that was put out in "0uter Mongolia" in a picture sleeve ONLY.Could it be a release from the U.K . only ATB Steve

If this has been done before apol's.

You must be thinking about Worlds Rarest known Soul Record

Not many collectors here know about stuff from non-western countries (and their rarity).

[steve z]

You must be thinking about Worlds Rarest known Soul Record

Not many collectors here know about stuff from non-western countries (and their rarity).

Hi Lars ,when I post a thread I do so openly,without too much guidance ,so as to not point a response to a potential replier.Thats why I did not state KNOWN.

You ,Lars ,have replied " not many collectors here know about stuff etc etc"

This answer ,to me ,implies that you do have that knowledge.Please confirm your knowledge and share it .Thanks .ATB Stevie Z

[Dave Rimmer]

You must be thinking about Worlds Rarest known Soul Record

Not many collectors here know about stuff from non-western countries (and their rarity).

That's a ridiculous statement that contradicts itself. How can a record be the world's rarest 'unknown' soul record ? By definition, someone has to know about it.

[Codfromderby]

CHRIS JACKSON - SOUL CITY 120 ONLY KNOW OF ONE COPY

is that an emidisc not a release ?

[Guest taffy]

is that an emidisc not a release ?

IT'S A WHITE LABEL HAND WRITTEN DEMO. THINK IT WAS DAVE GODINS.AS YOU STATE IT WASN'T ACTUALLY RELEASED.

Edited February 21, 2006 by taffy

[Guest Netspeaky]

Has anybody ever seen a First Choice - "This is the House Where Love Died" on UK Pye? I remember trying to order it off the new release sheet in my local record shop in Rhyl prior to them jumping to Bell with "Smarty Pants". I still have the release sheet with the Pye release number but I have never seen one or know anybody that has seen one. As it was on the release sheet sent to the shop, there must have been some pressed up somewhere.

[Rob Wigley]

444 acetate----come in julian bentley who asked me if i bought it off him when he sold his collection, answer is NO but Jim Wensiora had a 444 acetate of chris jackson "since there's no doubt" again very rare.

[soul45s]

Has anybody ever seen a First Choice - "This is the House Where Love Died" on UK Pye? I remember trying to order it off the new release sheet in my local record shop in Rhyl prior to them jumping to Bell with "Smarty Pants". I still have the release sheet with the Pye release number but I have never seen one or know anybody that has seen one. As it was on the release sheet sent to the shop, there must have been some pressed up somewhere.

I have searched for this 45 for years! It has always eluded me. I would love to have a copy as I have many other great releases on the label.

I have asked many people about this release over the past 20 odd years without success, I am so pleased you actually have the release sheet with the alocated number, I used to wonder if I had mis-heard or mis-read the info!

regards

Paul

[Simon T]

444 acetate----come in julian bentley who asked me if i bought it off him when he sold his collection, answer is NO but Jim Wensiora had a 444 acetate of chris jackson "since there's no doubt" again very rare.

Nearly positive CJ never came on anything except a studio acetate. Sure Dave G pulled the release on SC due to contractual concerns. A mate (detroitsoulman, on here) had the 444 acetate (form Soul Bowl?) but retuned it because it was pretty knackered. Never heard a good recording of it from a test press or original tape – wonder what happened to the original recording?

[Platters 81]

Dave Alcock had a uk Pye test press of First Choice.....it was white label......i dont know if Tims sold it as part of his estate yet......

[Ritchieandrew]

CHRIS JACKSON - SOUL CITY 120 ONLY KNOW OF ONE COPY

Personally I've only ever seen one copy of this record, and at that time it was owned by Alf Billingham, who got it of Dave Godin. Since there's no doubt is reputed to have the same backing track as the Total Eclipses "You took a heart". The record was to be the next release on Dave's Soul City label but never came out as the label folded.

Regards Ritchie.

[Paul R]

While we are on the subject of posibly mythical releases, What about The Volumes "I just can't help myself". Did it come out on Pama?

Paul

Edited February 22, 2006 by Paul r

[Steve G]

EXCLUDING THE U.S.A. RELEASES IE FRANK WILSON OR THE SHRINE STUFF ETC.

Just to pour some oil on the flames these are not the world's rarest records anyway. Rare indeed, but not the rarest. Hype normally put about by those who possess copies......

As we've said on here before there are plenty of USA "one known copy" titles about

Agree on many of the Uk selections on here, and wonder what is the most that has ever been paid for a UK release?

[Soulsmith]

I have searched for this 45 for years! It has always eluded me. I would love to have a copy as I have many other great releases on the label.

I have asked many people about this release over the past 20 odd years without success, I am so pleased you actually have the release sheet with the alocated number, I used to wonder if I had mis-heard or mis-read the info!

regards

Paul

This is the House Where Love Died" on UK Pye

What year are we talking for release date?

Is this the track often referred to as the the first ever house record?

Col.

[Guest James Trouble]

There are thousands of 'one offs' if you are talking about acetates. But if you are talking about 'issued' records it is probably a different story.

The strongest candidate that I know of is:

The Aristocrats - Don't Go.

One known copy, it's an issue.

It's US though, sorry if that is not relevent?

Edited February 22, 2006 by James Trouble

[Gene-r]

What year are we talking for release date?

1973

[Godzilla]

Dave Alcock had a uk Pye test press of First Choice.....it was white label......i dont know if Tims sold it as part of his estate yet......

Uber-British collector Dave Stubbs from Stockport way used to have one too. In fact his was the first copy I ever heard. Something in the back of my head says yellow and black demo with red A but we're going back over 30 years here. He had an awful lot of stuff too.

Godz

[Gene-r]

Agree on many of the Uk selections on here, and wonder what is the most that has ever been paid for a UK release?

At a guess Steve, I'd say it was probably £800 for a Darrell Banks demo on London. As far as I'm aware, no UK Soul 45 has made it to the four-figures yet (unless one of the Ray Pollard 45s have sold recently!).

By the way, does anyone know if UK test pressings/stock copies exist for "Can't Turn Around" by Fork In The Road (Ember), or "Who Can I Run To" by Gerri Hall (Sue)?

Edited February 22, 2006 by Gene-R

[Larsc]

You ,Lars ,have replied " not many collectors here know about stuff etc etc"

This answer ,to me ,implies that you do have that knowledge.Please confirm your knowledge and share it .Thanks .ATB Stevie Z

All I know is where this thread goes. Whenever a topic like this comes up most people post up replies about US releases and well known "one off's" that often turn out to be no such thing. The others talk about euro and south american pressings. Then there's one or two mentions of iranian james brown 45s and maybe thai/phillipino pressings. The point is that practically nobody actually devotes their time to seriously collecting this stuff.

Or maybe I'm just being grumpy

[Larsc]

That's a ridiculous statement that contradicts itself. How can a record be the world's rarest 'unknown' soul record ? By definition, someone has to know about it.

Can't follow you there mate, are you saying nothing is ever unknown ?

I think I was thinking that if some mongolian pressed a small quantity of soul records in the late 60's but lost all but one in a fire just before he died. If his relatives put theat record in a box somewhere and forgot about it how would you, or anyone, know ?

just theoretically of course

[Guest]

Can't follow you there mate, are you saying nothing is ever unknown ?

I think I was thinking that if some mongolian pressed a small quantity of soul records in the late 60's but lost all but one in a fire just before he died. If his relatives put theat record in a box somewhere and forgot about it how would you, or anyone, know ?

just theoretically of course

wow!! This is getting all a bit deep for me!!

cheers

paddy

[Gene-r]

In terms of US rarities, we've seen the odd copy of "Cheatin' Kind" by Don Gardner trickle out, but when did you ever see a copy of "She's Fire" by the CODs on Kellmac for sale?

Now there's a thought................

[Ged Parker]

In terms of US rarities, we've seen the odd copy of "Cheatin' Kind" by Don Gardner trickle out, but when did you ever see a copy of "She's Fire" by the CODs on Kellmac for sale?

Now there's a thought................

When Tim played "She's Fire" at Lifeline he anounced it as "the world's rarest Norther Soul record" not sure how he quantified that statement but he was steaming at the time

[Guest Dan]

Can't follow you there mate, are you saying nothing is ever unknown ?

I think I was thinking that if some mongolian pressed a small quantity of soul records in the late 60's but lost all but one in a fire just before he died. If his relatives put theat record in a box somewhere and forgot about it how would you, or anyone, know ?

just theoretically of course

hmmm...mongo soul? i like the sound of that, lars.

seriously, though, in the above scenario the relatives would still know about it...they've forgotten, sure, but what if they remember one day? does that mean it suddenly crosses over from unknown to known?

of course, if the mongolian put the record in a box, locked it and then gave it to them, that might be different - i'd have to get back to you on that one. but, in any event, that's not the scenario you're outlining.

what if he gave his sister a 10-box that you don't know about?

and anyway, if the relatives told people, who would know if they were telling the truth? would it be like the sound of a pine tree falling in an empty forest? or one hand clapping? importantly, would it get onto dave rimmer's site? would dave flynn suddenly produce a wdj copy, out of nowhere? so many questions.

even then, what about the producers, engineers, recording studio cleaners, pressing plant staff and all of their mums? are you suggesting they all got taken out in the fire as well? who started the fire, for god's sake?

no, in order for something to be truly unknown, it must be something that has never existed.

on that basis, i would say l allen's version of man oh man is probably the rarest soul record ever.

but this is open to debate.

Edited February 22, 2006 by Dan

[Guest Stuart T]

on that basis, i would say l allen's version of man oh man is probably the rarest soul record ever.

but this is open to debate.

Cue Christian to tell us "Theres been three of that up on ebay this year alone, its not that rare".

Quite surreal, is the non-existent L Allen rarer than the non-existent Big Maybelle cut of My Dear Beloved? I like this game

[Larsc]

Cue Christian to tell us "Theres been three of that up on ebay this year alone, its not that rare".

Quite surreal, is the non-existent L Allen rarer than the non-existent Big Maybelle cut of My Dear Beloved? I like this game

The rarest of two non-existent will be the one that is rarely discussed. Or maybe there is a non-existent cut that people only read about and never talk about. Now that would surely be the rarest of them all.

[Gene-r]

Good point about Larry Atkins on Romark, Steve. On that subject, what about other 1st or 2nd issues which you don't see for sale?

Len Jewell: Bettin' On Love (Teri De)

Don Varner: Tear Stained Face (Veep)

Nolan Chance: Just Like The Weather (Bunky)

Frank Beverley: Because Of My Heart (Rouser)

Ivories: Please Stay (Wand)

Any ideas on that little lot?

[Guest Stuart T]

The rarest of two non-existent will be the one that is rarely discussed. Or maybe there is a non-existent cut that people only read about and never talk about. Now that would surely be the rarest of them all.

Can a non-existent record be rare if nobody has yet speculated as to its existence? Isn't it a void? We're back to whether a tree falling in a deserted wood makes a sound. In space nobody can hear you scream...

[Guest Dan]

Can a non-existent record be rare if nobody has yet speculated as to its existence?

surely then it would be an unknown stuart?

thus if you speculate that ray pollard did a cover of 'these arms of mine' (though he changed the lyrics slightly, obviously), it becomes an ultra rare but known record.

if you don't speculate that he covered it, it is nothing more than a rumour started here, now, by me (though as you indicate christian will have seen an acetate go for $350 on ebay and will say it's shite, anyway. where is christian, by the way?).

i'm not sure whether we're going off topic or not.

[Chalky]

In terms of US rarities, we've seen the odd copy of "Cheatin' Kind" by Don Gardner trickle out, but when did you ever see a copy of "She's Fire" by the CODs on Kellmac for sale?

Now there's a thought................

Odd copy of Don Gardner...and the rest Only know of the one COD's, Tim Brown has it. Plenty of other one off's too

[Ted Massey]

When Tim played "She's Fire" at Lifeline he anounced it as "the world's rarest Norther Soul record" not sure how he quantified that statement but he was steaming at the time

Every body else would have been steaming as well trying to dance to the 200mph track

[Guest taffy]

While we are on the subject of posibly mythical releases, What about The Volumes "I just can't help myself". Did it come out on Pama?

Paul

NOBODY TO MY KNOWLEDGE HAS EVER FOUND ONE BUT IT DID GET A RELEASE NUMBER ON UK PAMA

[Ted Massey]

NOBODY TO MY KNOWLEDGE HAS EVER FOUND ONE BUT IT DID GET A RELEASE NUMBER ON UK PAMA

Someone did a fake photo of one think it was shown in Shades of Soul

[Guest]

444 acetate----come in julian bentley who asked me if i bought it off him when he sold his collection, answer is NO but Jim Wensiora had a 444 acetate of chris jackson "since there's no doubt" again very rare.

I sold Jimmy that 444 Chris Jackson in the late 70s. It wasn't a white label, it was a most attractive Orange, brown and Yellow if i remember right..and I've never seen it since..Soussan got hold of it at one stage, and it re-entered the country in the same shipment when he sold his "collection".. who has it now??

On the other question first Choice Pye acetate..I think Ian Clark has it..it certainly exists. Volumes one-one has ever seen. But if we are talking seriously rare, I just sold Mick H. a GIRL group =version of The C.O.Ds - Coming Back Girl - that was recorded in the same session as the CODs and it's a real vinyl Chicago label 45. As far as we know it's the only known copy. One other that springs to mind, is The Changing Times FANTASTIC version of the Parliaments - A New Day Begins..I think that's a ONE only copy. I think there a few ONE ONLY great Northern 45s..Stanley Evans is another..anyone got anymore?

[Ted Massey]

I sold Jimmy that 444 Chris Jackson in the late 70s. It wasn't a white label, it was a most attractive Orange, brown and Yellow if i remember right..and I've never seen it since..Soussan got hold of it at one stage, and it re-entered the country in the same shipment when he sold his "collection".. who has it now??

On the other question first Choice Pye acetate..I think Ian Clark has it..it certainly exists. Volumes one-one has ever seen. But if we are talking seriously rare, I just sold Mick H. a GIRL group =version of The C.O.Ds - Coming Back Girl - that was recorded in the same session as the CODs and it's a real vinyl Chicago label 45. As far as we know it's the only known copy. One other that springs to mind, is The Changing Times FANTASTIC version of the Parliaments - A New Day Begins..I think that's a ONE only copy. I think there a few ONE ONLY great Northern 45s..Stanley Evans is another..anyone got anymore?

Hasnt John Pugh got that Chris Jackson?

[Guest]

How rare then is the Combinations "Like I Never Did Before" on Kellmac 1011 ?, i don't know, but seeing as we have some top collectors on this thread, can you throw any light on that one for me.

Brett

[Guest HiTtHeBoNgO]

At a guess Steve, I'd say it was probably £800 for a Darrell Banks demo on London. As far as I'm aware, no UK Soul 45 has made it to the four-figures yet (unless one of the Ray Pollard 45s have sold recently!).

By the way, does anyone know if UK test pressings/stock copies exist for "Can't Turn Around" by Fork In The Road (Ember), or "Who Can I Run To" by Gerri Hall (Sue)?

will be intereting to see what one of the (supposed) only 6 copies of the instro what about the music makes on kama sutra , ones being auctioned now and i know theres one in the pipeline to be auctioned in the future as well ...got to be most expensive uk i would have thought ..

[Guest]

Plus the Antellects on Flodavieur.........seems another huge big ticket item.....

[Guest]

Another one that bothers me is The Dreams on Kellmac 1006 "Young Man", was this ever released ?

[steve z]

EXCLUDING THE U.S.A. RELEASES IE FRANK WILSON OR THE SHRINE STUFF ETC.

So is it a copy that was put out in "0uter Mongolia" in a picture sleeve ONLY.Could it be a release from the U.K . only ATB Steve

If this has been done before apol's.

Hi all you soulies who have responded A big thankyou

Hows about the Male version of "I just dropped in to see what my condition was in"?ATB Steve Z

[Dave Abbott]

but when did you ever see a copy of "She's Fire" by the CODs on Kellmac for sale?

Now there's a thought................

one known copy for, tim also played at lifeline a record that sent me straight to the decks, via the toilet cos i was dying for a pee - to find annother one only known - the Intensions on USA.

Therefore with 'one known' copies there cant be THE rarest soul record but a handfull, if you know what i mean..

[Chalky]

IBut if we are talking seriously rare, I just sold Mick H. a GIRL group =version of The C.O.Ds - Coming Back Girl - that was recorded in the same session as the CODs and it's a real vinyl Chicago label 45. As far as we know it's the only known copy.

Mick's currently spinning it covered up as Anita Humes

[Dave Abbott]

Mick's currently spinning it covered up as Anita Humes

...begs the question - and i dont want to take this off on a tangent and i am sure its be 'covered' (LOL) loads of time before; but if a record has some provenance i.e. in this case only one known as JM says - why cover it up?

Edit to say - or is it not knownas a 'one off'..yet?

Edited February 22, 2006 by Dave Abbott

[Geordiejohnson]

...begs the question - and i dont want to take this off on a tangent and i am sure its be 'covered' (LOL) loads of time before; but if a record has some provenance i.e. in this case only one known as JM says - why cover it up?

Edit to say - or is it not knownas a 'one off'..yet?

Great point Dave

Id also like to say what a great thread and great to see John Manship and others sharing his thoughts and knowledge instead of some of the usual "speculation" that sometimes gets aired, im not a soul encyclopedia type, so its great to read interesting comments from those with years of experience top thread

Geeoooordie

[Steve G]

...begs the question - and i dont want to take this off on a tangent and i am sure its be 'covered' (LOL) loads of time before; but if a record has some provenance i.e. in this case only one known as JM says - why cover it up?

Edit to say - or is it not knownas a 'one off'..yet?

.....One man's "one off" may be another man's shelf filler and no one has a difinitive knowledge of everything - that's what makes it all fun But agree let's not drift into cover ups on here, as I will bore you all senseless - do agree though a great thread.

When I collected Arctic the only one I haven't got is "Chains of love" - I think that may be another one off to add to the list. "Just Like the Weather" on Bunky, I off? Also there's a dog rare thing on Philly Groove, so rare that I don't even know who sang it - missing number thing that does apparantly exist ....I'll get me coat!

[Headsy]

Mick's currently spinning it covered up as Anita Humes

no point now