Simon M Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 (edited) Norris Vines , Pro Fas. etc ?? Cheers Simon Edited February 19, 2006 by Simon M Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest alison Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Natural Impulse Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chris Anderton Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Natural impulse has got to be there.....actual rarity is difficult to quantify, talking to some of the guys that were around the fledgling modern scene in the early days, records we consider to be rare were available at that time... Great thread Alison.....I`ll have a think...... Chris Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simon M Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 Natural impulse has got to be there.....actual rarity is difficult to quantify, talking to some of the guys that were around the fledgling modern scene in the early days, records we consider to be rare were available at that time... Great thread Alison.....I`ll have a think...... Chris Yeah I was around then . so this should be interesting for me I assume crossover is 70's though Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Didn't Simon start the thread Chris ? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Baz Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Nathan Williams - what price, has got to be right up there IMO Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Yeah I was around then . so this should be interesting for me I assume crossover is 70's though My definition of "Crossover" is that transistional period from late 1968 to '73 Well produced chuggers with soulful vocals none of the records mentioned so far fit that catagory..examples could be Na Allen - Atco, Moses Smith - Cotillion, Wilson Love etc type tunes would have been my choice.. As for Natural Impulse .. I sold it last year for an unbelievable price...its rarity is unquestionable Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Trevski Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Joseph Webster, superb Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Joseph Webster, superb Trevski tell me if I'm wrong but Joeseph Webster doesn't fit the cross-over catagory.. surely it's rare soulful dance 70s ..modern dancer check the soundclips in this area there are 100s but this is surely crossover https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/rare-soul-vin...s-over/XO/all/1 If it's not, then I got a bit of work to do to find a name for this stuff.. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest alison Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 My definition of "Crossover" is that transistional period from late 1968 to '73 Well produced chuggers with soulful vocals none of the records mentioned so far fit that catagory..examples could be Na Allen - Atco, Moses Smith - Cotillion, Wilson Love etc type tunes would have been my choice.. As for Natural Impulse .. I sold it last year for an unbelievable price...its rarity is unquestionable The meaning of Crossover - Discuss. We've had fun with this one over the years Several differing viewpoints nowadays. Some assess it by year; some by the style, sound and vibe; some judge by whether a record "crossed over" from a Modern room to a Northern room - but for me it doesn't really matter as long as it floats my boat. As much as I yearn for a copy of Natural Impulse with all my heart - when the price gets so obscene, I learn to get over it pretty quickly When something becomes financially unattainable - the fun goes out of the hunt. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 The meaning of Crossover - Discuss. We've had fun with this one over the years Several differing viewpoints nowadays. Some assess it by year; some by the style, sound and vibe; some judge by whether a record "crossed over" from a Modern room to a Northern room - but for me it doesn't really matter as long as it floats my boat. As much as I yearn for a copy of Natural Impulse with all my heart - when the price gets so obscene, I learn to get over it pretty quickly When something becomes financially unattainable - the fun goes out of the hunt. There are future "Natural Impulses" to be bought today if you dig hard enough.. more collectors are now buying £15 to £30 bracket seldom seen titles.. . 5 years time you could have a 4 figure record.. if not, you'll have lots of rare records for the right price.... most Natural Impulse owners obtained copies for realistic prices..get hunting There are future "Natural Impulses" to be bought today if you dig hard enough.. more collectors are now buying £15 to £30 bracket seldom seen titles.. . 5 years time you could have a 4 figure record.. if not, you'll have lots of rare records for the right price.... most Natural Impulse owners obtained copies for realistic prices. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simon M Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 When did crossover start coming into our Lingo .. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 There are future "Natural Impulses" to be bought today if you dig hard enough.. more collectors are now buying £15 to £30 bracket seldom seen titles.. . 5 years time you could have a 4 figure record.. if not, you'll have lots of rare records for the right price.... most Natural Impulse owners obtained copies for realistic prices..get hunting Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 When did crossover start coming into our Lingo .. First place was perhaps Thorn.. way back about 15 years ago.. common speak at Great Yarmouth Soul Essence Weekenders but by 11pm it's called "shhlloshhhh-over" Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simsy Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Norris Vines , Pro Fas. etc ?? Cheers Simon Dunno about now. But deffo Tony Galla top 10 crossover at one time. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simon M Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 (edited) Rock Mill 5238 - Let Love In Your Life"- 1991 Charisma .. Has a crossover feel to me , must be quite cheap still . but its late 80's if i remember rightly ? Edited February 19, 2006 by Simon M Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simon M Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 First place was perhaps Thorn.. way back about 15 years ago.. common speak at Great Yarmouth Soul Essence Weekenders but by 11pm it's called "shhlloshhhh-over" Ahh Steve P and co ...I see Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simsy Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 The meaning of Crossover - Discuss. Always understood 'Crossover' to be a record played on the scene that didn't fit the usual criteria of NS. Namely black soul. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Dunno about now. But deffo Tony Galla top 10 crossover at one time. If Tony Galla is crossover/ then I'm gonna watch the Villa beat Man City.. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simon M Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 If Tony Galla is crossover/ then I'm gonna watch the Villa beat Man City.. Then again if Man city get a decent Crossover Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
steve z Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 If Tony Galla is crossover/ then I'm gonna watch the Villa beat Man City.. Hi John .Played Robert Tanner a few times over the last few years to be "informed" its crossover??ATB Steve Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest alison Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 The topic of rarity getting sidetracked by the inevitable definition of crossover debate Quelle suprise. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I'd probably agree with JM's description of crossover but maybe stretch to the mid 70's. Records that aren't quite northern and not quite modern (as was). These days owt seems to go. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simsy Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 If Tony Galla is crossover/ then I'm gonna watch the Villa beat Man City.. Always rated that Angel (ang-hell) kid. TG white organ mod thing. Always remember Graham Thomas saying "if you told people Tony Galla was a soul record they'd laff at yer". So it's not crossover? Not Soul, yet played to death on NS scene - hmmm. the inevitable definition of crossover debate Quelle suprise. Kind of has a bearing on the thread though. Wouldn't you say? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Girthdevon Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 First place was perhaps Thorn.. way back about 15 years ago.. common speak at Great Yarmouth Soul Essence Weekenders but by 11pm it's called "shhlloshhhh-over" Absolutely - and Voices ran a great 'Crossover Special' article in issue 16 - i've just dug it out - some faves that I bought around that time were George Perkins - I'm So Glad Your Mine, Kent Drake - Boss Thing Together & Don Gardner - Your Love Is Driving Me Crazy. And John - in the old days at Yarmouth it was 11am, not 11pm Girf Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 (edited) Richard Marks on Tuska and Shout (although not as rare). Chuck Cockerham, & Richard Caiton. Edited February 19, 2006 by chalky Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Dan Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 as to a definition of crossover, i'd say a classic crossover sound would be something like the ascots, a few feet from the gutter - not 'modern' in the old definition of modern but not 60s soul either...wouldn't have been played on either the modern or northern scenes in their heydays (unless i'm wrong about that particular record?)...thus it crosses over both. as to when crossover originated as a term, i'd have said early 90s? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Micksmix Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 as to a definition of crossover, i'd say a classic crossover sound would be something like the ascots, a few feet from the gutter - not 'modern' in the old definition of modern but not 60s soul either...wouldn't have been played on either the modern or northern scenes in their heydays (unless i'm wrong about that particular record?)...thus it crosses over both. as to when crossover originated as a term, i'd have said early 90s? spot on Mick Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Gavin Page Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 First place was perhaps Thorn.. way back about 15 years ago.. common speak at Great Yarmouth Soul Essence Weekenders but by 11pm it's called "shhlloshhhh-over" shhlloshhhh-over. You will sell loads of it John ! Hope you are well my old friend ? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chris Anderton Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I suppose one mans crossover is another mans northern...its an over used term but to me its always meant that the record came from a period from 1969 to 1974 when musical style was changing from the more motownesque beat to a more 2-step beat......but the record is still soulful and danceable enough to get plays and be aproved of on the scene. Back to the thread, I suppose we are talking stuff like; Tony Troutman-Whats the use Earl White Jnr-Very special girl Milton Parker-Women like it harder Matt Brown-Thankyou baby etc Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I've always understood the term to mean as Chris says the period from the between the changeover from motown rhythm to the more modern rhythm. The time between the more straight forward beats of Motown and disco. Virgil Henry's/Cookie Woodson's 'I'll Be True" springs to mind. I have to say I think 'crossobers" thrown up some great records- who mentioned 'Few Feet From The Gutter' ? Absolutley superb, whatever you label it ! How about Chuck Cockerham-is it crossover? But it threw up some really tedious things too. So whats the definition of 'tent' music? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Not a top ten xover rarities list,just 45`s i`d put into the xover bracket, Contellations-I don`t know about you Dynells-call on me Fantastics-Where theres a will there`s a way Internationals-Beautiful philosphy Spartans-I don`t need another lover Chuck Cockerham-Have i the right Guitar Ray-gonna wreck my life Both Natural 4 45s on Bola Bola Eula Cooper-Try Ladellics-never gonna change my love Chuck Ray-I don`t mind Margie Joseph-One more chance Imperial Wonders-Just a dream Rotations-I can`t find her Differences-Five minutes Jive Fyve-If i had a chance to love you Norwood Long-I`d like to have you George Jackson-I don`t have the time to love you You get the jest of it else i`ll be here all night doing this Dave f......... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Awake 502 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 So whats the definition of 'tent' music? crossover/modern played in a tent cause they didn't have a proper room innit Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Richard Bergman Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 (edited) I suppose one mans crossover is another mans northern...its an over used term but to me its always meant that the record came from a period from 1969 to 1974 when musical style was changing from the more motownesque beat to a more 2-step beat......but the record is still soulful and danceable enough to get plays and be aproved of on the scene. Back to the thread, I suppose we are talking stuff like; Tony Troutman-Whats the use Earl White Jnr-Very special girl Milton Parker-Women like it harder Matt Brown-Thankyou baby etc Great shouts Chris, Milton Parker is a great example to use ...fabulous record...The Matt Brown record is great also both records seem to share similar backing oddly enough...... Edited February 20, 2006 by Richard Bergman Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Tricky Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 SHUSH, DON,T TALK ABOUT TUNES IF JOHN IS ON HERE.THEY WILL BE ON HIS AUCTION LIST BY TUESDAY.HI JOHN. TREV Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Northernguy Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 (edited) CROSSOVER Matt Brown.mp3 Edited February 20, 2006 by firefly Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Netspeaky Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Not a top ten xover rarities list,just 45`s i`d put into the xover bracket, Contellations-I don`t know about you Dynells-call on me Fantastics-Where theres a will there`s a way Internationals-Beautiful philosphy Spartans-I don`t need another lover Chuck Cockerham-Have i the right Guitar Ray-gonna wreck my life Both Natural 4 45s on Bola Bola Eula Cooper-Try Ladellics-never gonna change my love Chuck Ray-I don`t mind Margie Joseph-One more chance Imperial Wonders-Just a dream Rotations-I can`t find her Differences-Five minutes Jive Fyve-If i had a chance to love you Norwood Long-I`d like to have you George Jackson-I don`t have the time to love you You get the jest of it else i`ll be here all night doing this Dave f.........Spartans-I don`t need another lover Playing this in my spots, top tune. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Not really certain how rare F. J. Jones is on P.S., but it is without doubt one of my favourite crossover 45's, plus i've asked plenty of respected people who collect this type of sound (Chris Anderton included) and quite a few have never seen it. Ps..bought it off Mr Manship perhaps John could tell me if he's seen a few of these over the years? Brett Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mak Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 ARTIE FULLILOVE - THANK YOU , now that is top draw crossover Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Mellow Madness - Save The Youth - Mega. Perhaps not 'Crossover', but that's gotta feature if Trev is allowed Joseph Webster Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
steve z Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Not really certain how rare F. J. Jones is on P.S., but it is without doubt one of my favourite crossover 45's, plus i've asked plenty of respected people who collect this type of sound (Chris Anderton included) and quite a few have never seen it. Ps..bought it off Mr Manship perhaps John could tell me if he's seen a few of these over the years? Brett Hi Brett ,TOP tune,since you played this at SON been looking for a copy........some months now.You know I usually aim for 6ts stuff, only a few xover grab me ....this tune is one that does.Quality piece.ATB Stevie Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Mick W Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Frederick Hymes III-Time aint gonna do me no favors Bernard Smith -never gonna let you go Billy Kent -take it all this time Major Lance - without a doubt Nathan Williams - what price Matt Brown - Thankyou baby Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Johnny One Trout Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Mellow Madness - Save The Youth - Mega. Perhaps not 'Crossover', but that's gotta feature if Trev is allowed Joseph Webster Surely Jazz Funk Jamiecakes But i know what you mean Over the last few years if you were to attend a "Crossover" event you are very unlikey to hear an evening of records that strictly fall into the proverbial crossover pigeon hole. A plethora of other styles are played from either side of the divide as well. What with the tendency for today's UK Modern Soul Scene to rely almost exclusively on new releases (and rightly so how can a 30+ year old record be modern?) the only place to hear these rare soul records is it seems at a crossover event and for me personally the lines between what were classed as modern records (late 70's early 80's) and your more traditional crossover sounds are blurring to such an extent that the term crossover is used to describe the records played at a crossover event ..........if you get my drift Of course some out and out crossover records are more Northern nowadays take Ace Spectrum, Ruby Andrews, Vanguards, Hamilton Movement etc etc All IMVFHO of course Trouty Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Jamie Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Surely Jazz Funk Jamiecakes But i know what you mean Over the last few years if you were to attend a "Crossover" event you are very unlikey to hear an evening of records that strictly fall into the proverbial crossover pigeon hole. A plethora of other styles are played from either side of the divide as well. What with the tendency for today's UK Modern Soul Scene to rely almost exclusively on new releases (and rightly so how can a 30+ year old record be modern?) the only place to hear these rare soul records is it seems at a crossover event and for me personally the lines between what were classed as modern records (late 70's early 80's) and your more traditional crossover sounds are blurring to such an extent that the term crossover is used to describe the records played at a crossover event ..........if you get my drift Of course some out and out crossover records are more Northern nowadays take Ace Spectrum, Ruby Andrews, Vanguards, Hamilton Movement etc etc All IMVFHO of course Trouty On the money there, Uncle Johnners. Totally agree with what you say about a true 'Crossover' event; you get the full spectrum, from mid/late 60's to a current new release. That's how I like to take my medicine anyhoo Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Bazm Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 and your more traditional crossover sounds are blurring to such an extent that the term crossover is used to describe the records played at a crossover event ..........if you get my drift Quite right Mr Trout, Hear, Hear.........maybe it's time to keep crossover 'Crossover', Hear's my ten honoury 'Pure Crossover' selections for tonight....... Keep On Strivin' Moses Smith Tears and Misery Sonny Till Magic Corner Belita Woods It's The Real Thing Monica Higgins What Can I Do Jean Shy Where Is That Rainbow Dee Dee Warwick I Get My Groove From You Bobby Shannon My World of Extacy Reggie Soul Let Me In Eboney Essence Such A Wonderful Feeling Johnny Moore Having said that we'll be 'Mixing It Up styleee' at this little get together.................. THE ORWELL - FRIDAY 24th FEBRUARY Wigan Pier, Wigan Soul Sam, Flanny, Steve Connor, Barry Maleady, Steve Plumb With Special Guest DJ GLYN THORNHILL 8.30 pm - 2.30 am (with a 2 am bar!) 70's Modern & Crossover Soul with a smattering of quality Northern Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
DtheD Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Not really certain how rare F. J. Jones is on P.S., but it is without doubt one of my favourite crossover 45's, plus i've asked plenty of respected people who collect this type of sound (Chris Anderton included) and quite a few have never seen it. Ps..bought it off Mr Manship perhaps John could tell me if he's seen a few of these over the years? Brett Great record but beware two different mixes! I have it on a plain yellow P.S and our kid's is on a fancy yellow and red P.S . His fortunately is a much poorer mix with the backing track being well down if I remember correctly. Dave Ripolles Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Norris Vines , Pro Fas. etc ?? Cheers Simon I'll attest to the Vines' rarity. K in Toronto. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Great record but beware two different mixes! I have it on a plain yellow P.S and our kid's is on a fancy yellow and red P.S . His fortunately is a much poorer mix with the backing track being well down if I remember correctly. Dave Ripolles Hi David, yeah interesting i was asking Andy Whitmore about this 45' and he said he had it on a coloured label, i just thought the usual different pressing plant practices, but i'm glad to say i have the plain yellow single. Agreed though the 45' is staggeringly good for people who appreciate this genre of rare soul. Brett Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I agree with John M, Chalky and others definitions of crossover. Although it has all got a bit mixed up in todays scene, those guys have articulated the term in the way I understand it. Same with Girth mentioning the old "Voices" article. I'd therefore say that some of the bongo beat deep funk rejects we hear these days are most definately not crossover, albeit they get spun at venues, and some of them are pretty damn good. Crossover to me has an earthy chugging beat, and was a style caught between the Motown / Chi Sound uptempo style and the funk of James Brown and the like. Definately cast in time between the late 60s and early 70s. Anything beyond that to me is either "modern" in the northern sense (i.e. 30 years old modern), deep funk (Joseph Webster, Jerry Washington) or harmony soul (Nat Impulse, Fluorsecent Smogg etc). The one term that has been forgotten in all this is "70s" - to describe uptempo dancers from the period 73-77 - mainly with a doff of the cap to Philly or NY influences, stuff like Pinch of Perfection, Life "Tell me why" etc- and what great music that was! Cheers Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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