How Do We Define A Rare Record

[Guest Netspeaky]

Is this how we define a rare record, below is my starting point, feel free to put your own view forward.

1-5 Copies - Love nor money can't get you a copy as they are usually held by DJ or Collector

6-10 - Maybe money can get you a copy, DJ wants to move on copy for something else.

11- 50 - Sure to get a copy if you're prepared to pay, copies turn up, someone wants to sell.

51-100 - The price is right, copies turn up or come out of collections.

101 - 500 - No trouble, just bide your time.

501-1000 - When you want one, it was a regional hit.

Over a 1000 - can't give them away, it was hit.

[Mark Bicknell]

Is this how we define a rare record, below is my starting point, feel free to put your own view forward.

1-5 Copies - Love nor money can't get you a copy as they are usually held by DJ or Collector

6-10 - Maybe money can get you a copy, DJ wants to move on copy for something else.

11- 50 - Sure to get a copy if you're prepared to pay, copies turn up, someone wants to sell.

51-100 - The price is right, copies turn up or come out of collections.

101 - 500 - No trouble, just bide your time.

501-1000 - When you want one, it was a regional hit.

Over a 1000 - can't give them away, it was hit.

As long as it's a good record Mark....who cares....lol...Now where's me Jimmy Burns?...lol

Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Netspeaky]

As long as it's a good record Mark....who cares....lol...Now where's me Jimmy Burns?...lol

Mark Bicknell.

I agree Mark, I have loads of hit records, and they add up to a lot of Soul

[Mark Bicknell]

I agree Mark, I have loads of hit records, and they add up to a lot of Soul

And me Mark....lol

Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Matt Male]

Is this how we define a rare record, below is my starting point, feel free to put your own view forward.

1-5 Copies - Love nor money can't get you a copy as they are usually held by DJ or Collector

6-10 - Maybe money can get you a copy, DJ wants to move on copy for something else.

11- 50 - Sure to get a copy if you're prepared to pay, copies turn up, someone wants to sell.

51-100 - The price is right, copies turn up or come out of collections.

101 - 500 - No trouble, just bide your time.

501-1000 - When you want one, it was a regional hit.

Over a 1000 - can't give them away, it was hit.

Anyone brave enough to put price ranges next to these?

[Guest]

Anyone brave enough to put price ranges next to these?

I dont think that the price you pay equates to the rareaty imo some people on this scene have more money than sence thats wot inflates the price of the records not how rare it is

HB

[Guest Dan]

I dont think that the price you pay equates to the rareaty imo some people on this scene have more money than sence thats wot inflates the price of the records not how rare it is

HB

we've all got more money than sense if we buy original vinyl. why spend £20 on something you can listen to for nothing on a CD copied for you by your mate? once you do that, you lose the right to comment on what other people spend on anything (not you particularly nigel, all of us) because it then comes down to how much dough the individual has and how much they want the record.

a millionaire (there are some on the scene) who pays £8000 for Walter and the Ads might be said to be less 'mad' than a normal person who pays £200 for the Vontastics.

always reminds me of winston churchill at a dinner party.

conversation turns to whether the women present would have sex with a man for five million pounds.

lady so-and-so giggles and says she would.

WC: would you sleep with me for five pounds, then?

lady s&s (in disgust): why mr churchill...what on earth do you take me for?

WC: madam, we have already established what you are. now we are just haggling over the price.

[Guest Stormin Si]

I must admit, there is something really satisfying about owning a rare (sometimes not so rare) original, especially if its one of your top sounds.

[Pete S]

Is this how we define a rare record, below is my starting point, feel free to put your own view forward.

1-5 Copies - Love nor money can't get you a copy as they are usually held by DJ or Collector

6-10 - Maybe money can get you a copy, DJ wants to move on copy for something else.

11- 50 - Sure to get a copy if you're prepared to pay, copies turn up, someone wants to sell.

51-100 - The price is right, copies turn up or come out of collections.

101 - 500 - No trouble, just bide your time.

501-1000 - When you want one, it was a regional hit.

Over a 1000 - can't give them away, it was hit.

Trouble is, you could apply the last description to Ruby Andrews, Epitome Of Sound, Frank Beverly, John Bowie...what I mean is, those records were around in those quantities

Edited February 14, 2006 by Pete-S

[Guest Netspeaky]

Trouble is, you could apply the last description to Ruby Andrews, Epitome Of Sound, Frank Beverly, John Bowie...what I mean is, those records were around in those quantities

I know what you're saying Pete, certain records were around in quantity but have disappeared, so I guess they move up the scale. Lets face it even those in the in the 1-5 were originally pressed as 100's, we just never seen the buggers.

[Guest lifeandsoul]

I know what you're saying Pete, certain records were around in quantity but have disappeared, so I guess they move up the scale. Lets face it even those in the in the 1-5 were originally pressed as 100's, we just never seen the buggers.

Exactly when it is said there are (say) 3 known copies - who knows and how do they know.

[Winsford Soul]

Exactly when it is said there are (say) 3 known copies - who knows and how do they know.

Because JM book tells them

Steve

[Chalky]

I know what you're saying Pete, certain records were around in quantity but have disappeared, so I guess they move up the scale. Lets face it even those in the in the 1-5 were originally pressed as 100's, we just never seen the buggers.

But Ruby Andrews, Epitome of Sound, John Bowie haven't disappeared, they are for sale via one medium oir another every day practically, certainly on a weekly basis, so why are they so expensive.

Now Dan mentioned Walter & Admerations and £8000....is that so unreasonable with todays prices with a record of which only 4 copies are known? It's bloody good northern as well whioch woulod make it even more desirable.

Edited February 14, 2006 by chalky

[Chalky]

Exactly when it is said there are (say) 3 known copies - who knows and how do they know.

(take the Mello Souls for an example). thats why we say "3 known copies" and not "3 copies" because 3 are all that is known about. No one knows how many are out there but it is safe to say that not all records were presed in ntheir 100's. Many only handful pressed at corner shop recording studios where they paid there $25 etc to have a disc cut. Many only enough cuts done for the group members maybe a few extra for local promotion around local radio stations.

[Guest Baz]

Exactly when it is said there are (say) 3 known copies - who knows and how do they know.

Its there in black and white for you

exactely what it says 'known' copys if a record is that rare its not hard to find out how many there is

[Pete S]

Its there in black and white for you

exactely what it says 'known' copys if a record is that rare its not hard to find out how many there is

I have to disagree with the - sort of - back in the mid 90's I bought a copy of Court Davis (when it really was still rare) off a rock'n'roll/pop list, based in the Uk, where it was described as a Gene Pitney soundalike. The point being, nobody on earth could have imagined it would ever appear on that particular sales list. So there will definitely be records around. The copy of Will Collins I had came from a charity shop in Eastbourne. I also got Anthony & The Aqualads in Eastbourne for FREE, bloke gave it me as I also bought an LP off him

[Guest Baz]

I have to disagree with the - sort of - back in the mid 90's I bought a copy of Court Davis (when it really was still rare) off a rock'n'roll/pop list, based in the Uk, where it was described as a Gene Pitney soundalike. The point being, nobody on earth could have imagined it would ever appear on that particular sales list. So there will definitely be records around. The copy of Will Collins I had came from a charity shop in Eastbourne. I also got Anthony & The Aqualads in Eastbourne for FREE, bloke gave it me as I also bought an LP off him

What i was ment to say was....its not hard to find out hown many are in the hands of soul fans collectors/Dj's hence being a known amount.............until any more of something turn up then the known amout is good enough for me

[Headsy]

a lot of unknown collectors in the States mind. ( probably a few here as well )

[Guest Baz]

a lot of unknown collectors in the States mind. ( probably a few here as well )

True, wonder how many of the less than 10 (known to us in the UK ) copys are in collections over in the states, as with all records.....time will tell,

[Chalky]

True, wonder how many of the less than 10 (known to us in the UK ) copys are in collections over in the states, as with all records.....time will tell,

I would say not too many. Going by the daft prices these days most of the top dollar mega rarities would be offered for sale. What would you do if you had just seen a record go for £10000 that you paid cents or a few dollars for?

[Guest NASHEE]

I have to disagree with the - sort of - back in the mid 90's I bought a copy of Court Davis (when it really was still rare) off a rock'n'roll/pop list, based in the Uk, where it was described as a Gene Pitney soundalike. The point being, nobody on earth could have imagined it would ever appear on that particular sales list. So there will definitely be records around. The copy of Will Collins I had came from a charity shop in Eastbourne. I also got Anthony & The Aqualads in Eastbourne for FREE, bloke gave it me as I also bought an LP off him

Best bit of advice I was ever given.

Jimmy Eddleston told me.... If you want a real bargain...never look for soul records on a soul list...check out the r/r, rockabilly & doo wop dealers first.

Oh yes...he said .look in skips too...but I always found the sides too high

[Guest Dan]

I would say not too many. Going by the daft prices these days most of the top dollar mega rarities would be offered for sale. What would you do if you had just seen a record go for £10000 that you paid cents or a few dollars for?

i think chalky's right about this. i think there are more records out there than the 'known' ones simply because if you're off the scene but still collecting, you don't dj and you keep yourself to yourself, who knows what you've got?

BUT not many people with a margaret little in their collections who are either

i) not djs

ii) not mad

or

iii) not rich

would hang on to it having seen it on ebay surely?

and only a redneck backwoodsman sister-shagger living like the unabomber wouldn't know about ebay and soul records, and not many of them are into soul in the first place.

i think ebay is the best way there's ever been of proving rarity, hate it though i do.

guy emailed me last week asking me if i wanted to buy bernie williams on bell (i didn't). second mint copy he had. not a common record for sure, now two minters are in circulation.

even better example - that clara hardy thing. if you look at whichever tim brown millionaires comp it's on, i think he talks about 1 known copy (from memory)? turns out he missed a couple of noughts off (though to be fair he didn't have a crystal ball).

thus, the more days go by the more sure i am that, for whatever weird reason, records such as walter and the ads, marget little and others really are that rare.

but we can all always be proven wrong

[Chalky]

even better example - that clara hardy thing. if you look at whichever tim brown millionaires comp it's on, i think he talks about 1 known copy (from memory)? turns out he missed a couple of noughts off (though to be fair he didn't have a crystal ball).

to be fair to Tim he was right at the time, i known copy or whatever figure he quoted at the time. The Clara Hardy just goes to prove you don't know exactly what is ouit theree or when it will turn up.

It can be said that Margaret Little is good example of a record that goes big, one turns up, fetches big money then another suddenly appears...not bad for an unknown record few years ago.

[Guest Dan]

to be fair to Tim he was right at the time, i known copy or whatever figure he quoted at the time. The Clara Hardy just goes to prove you don't know exactly what is ouit theree or when it will turn up.

It can be said that Margaret Little is good example of a record that goes big, one turns up, fetches big money then another suddenly appears...not bad for an unknown record few years ago.

no quite right chalky, that's the point i was trying to make in a clumsy way

what's 'known' may be massively different from what's 'rare' but ebay means the two are coming closer together every day (though there will always be the potential for surprises...someone could find 100 walter and ads tomorrow in theory)

[Chalky]

If I found a Margaret Little it would be on e-bay in no time, for one it's getting plenty of exposure, it may be great Northern but it ain't a great record, far better ten/twenty quidders out there (IMHO)

[Guest Netspeaky]

to be fair to Tim he was right at the time, i known copy or whatever figure he quoted at the time. The Clara Hardy just goes to prove you don't know exactly what is ouit theree or when it will turn up.

It can be said that Margaret Little is good example of a record that goes big, one turns up, fetches big money then another suddenly appears...not bad for an unknown record few years ago.

My copy of Margaret Little and Mick H's came from the same guy. MH's came from someone who walked into the dealer shop with a bag of 45's, dealer got big bucks on ebay, so put adds everywhere in his locality to see if he could get others, someone answer the ad with a copy, which is my copy.

Sam copy is Vg

Mick H's copy is Vg+

My Copy is Ex.

Had all 3 copies in hand to check condition, so none are STOCK copies, so I suppose there could be a 25 box of MINT ones somewhere, you can only hope.

[Guest barnsey]

its a record thats not been overdone . oh no sorry thats steak