Dennis Edwards - I Dont Know How Too

[Guest blackbeesoulclub]

Anyone got any info on this? Can't find any?

Label?

Anyone got one?

Cheers

Paul Bailey

[Chalky]

It's called "I didn't have to" and it's on International Soulsville.

It's expensive as well.

[Guest blackbeesoulclub]

That's the one Chalky. Thanks pal.

£3000.00...I think I'll leave it... ;)

[Guest chorleybloke]

But you could call it a half price record because of the other side

[Guest giant]

That's the one Chalky. Thanks pal.

£3000.00...I think I'll leave it... ;)

sold one last year ex condition £2500.00 two fantastic sides' not very easy to come by.

[Pete S]

That's the one Chalky. Thanks pal.

£3000.00...I think I'll leave it... ;)

I think Chalky (the other one) sold his for half that last year

[Dave Pinch]

has been booted if you need one for home consumption......blk label international soulsville

[Guest blackbeesoulclub]

Nay to boots Dave...thanks though.

[KevH]

On Soul City as well.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DENNIS-EDWARDS-JOHNNY-ON-THE-SPOT-BRILL-N-SOUL-Soul-City-Promo-LISTEN-/300803372936?pt=UK_Records&hash=item4609473788

Edited November 22, 2012 by KevH

[Simsy]

Awesome double sider.

Here's a real one..

[Dave Pinch]

Nay to boots Dave...thanks though.

good man..just puttin the knowledge out there in case you didnt know

[Dave Rimmer]

There are also white label boots out there as well.

[Jim Ohara]

Fantastic double sider - personally i prefer the Johnny On The Spot Side as the best dancer

Incidently, the term "JOTS" came from when a group member being asked to "stand in" on a performance or recording in a role he was not all that accustomed to, i.e., being asked to take lead vocal on a track/performance - he was then called the "Johnny On The Spot"

This term is actually quoted on an old Temptations DVD - quite coincidental when you consider which group Dennis Edwards was in!!!!

Originally when this was discovered back in 1990 (if memory serves me right) by Martin Koppell from Canada, some people doubted its originality

Luckily i happened to be at the late Ron Murphy's place in Detroit at roughly the same time as it started to get plays

In my return back to the UK, i sent him a letter asking about its background etc and he sent me an excellent reply - i will scan his reply over the next day or so when i find the letter

Jim

[Chalky]

It was Martin who found it Jim, about the time you mention, maybe 1991? Shipped over to Tim and the rest is as they say history.

[Jim Ohara]

absolutely correct Chalky, Martin shipped it to Tim - it may have been 1991?

wasn't it strange how a record by such a well known artist lay undiscovered for such a long timw - hence some peoples doubts on its originality at vthe time!!

I was lucky enough to spend some time at Martin's house and he had just discovered it a few weeks previous - he actually left me in his record room to make a tape whilst ke picked his kids up from school - really nice guy

Believe it or not on the same trip i was in Ron Murphys store (with Marv Johnson unbelievably), about 10 minutes after Gilly and Tatts had been in - this was the trip when Gilly discovered who Rose Valentine was!!!!

jim

[SHEFFSOUL]

Fantastic double sider - personally i prefer the Johnny On The Spot Side as the best dancer

Incidently, the term "JOTS" came from when a group member being asked to "stand in" on a performance or recording in a role he was not all that accustomed to, i.e., being asked to take lead vocal on a track/performance - he was then called the "Johnny On The Spot"

This term is actually quoted on an old Temptations DVD - quite coincidental when you consider which group Dennis Edwards was in!!!!

Originally when this was discovered back in 1990 (if memory serves me right) by Martin Koppell from Canada, some people doubted its originality

Luckily i happened to be at the late Ron Murphy's place in Detroit at roughly the same time as it started to get plays

In my return back to the UK, i sent him a letter asking about its background etc and he sent me an excellent reply - i will scan his reply over the next day or so when i find the letter

Jim

..actually the term johnny on the spot..goes way back ..certainly WW2 and most prob even further..given to mean ''be there when needed'' for whatever reason..

[Guest giant]

Nay to boots Dave...thanks though.

good man 'i like your style 'never give money to bootleggers and people who re-issue rare records even if its legit.

[Dysonsoul]

absolutely correct Chalky, Martin shipped it to Tim - it may have been 1991?

wasn't it strange how a record by such a well known artist lay undiscovered for such a long timw - hence some peoples doubts on its originality at vthe time!!

I was lucky enough to spend some time at Martin's house and he had just discovered it a few weeks previous - he actually left me in his record room to make a tape whilst ke picked his kids up from school - really nice guy

Believe it or not on the same trip i was in Ron Murphys store (with Marv Johnson unbelievably), about 10 minutes after Gilly and Tatts had been in - this was the trip when Gilly discovered who Rose Valentine was!!!!

jim

Now then Jim,it's been a while mate! Quite right re people questioning the authenticity of the record ... Martin did get one of the first copies of it but the first copy came in a consignement of around 2,000 - 45's that craig moerer sent to Browny when i was working there ,Craig put together the randomly pulled 45's from his stock (the lot would most probablyhave been brokered by Martin at the time) those were busy times at anglo and it was a few days before the boxes got opened .Anyways part way into sifting through Browny says "mmm dya know Dennis Edwards on Int... ? " of course at the time my answer was no he stuck both sides on and it knocked us sideways! It got played quite a few times in the warehouse that day during which time Browny shouting another T.B discovery..(at least he thinks he's discovered a soul record ah ) after listening and roughly dating the record our assumption was Edwards had to be with Motown at the time so rather a odd release.Other things in the lot were the Lonnie Lesters ,paramounts-magnum all in small quantities amongst others a nice little lot,infact i remember Browny calling Craig and being honest enough to mention the inclusion of the D.E letting him know it was a bit of something (maybe after he'd asked if he'd got anymore of it).Then Martin was sent the details and found it ,think it was on those Detroit tapes he did.There is quite a lot more to the story though i have included it in the record digging book.It is some years ago though Jim you got me questioning me memory... either way one of the best double siders to come along so late in the day and criminally one of the best double siders to never really take off.

[Guest chorleybloke]

Now then Jim,it's been a while mate! Quite right re people questioning the authenticity of the record ... Martin did get one of the first copies of it but the first copy came in a consignement of around 2,000 - 45's that craig moerer sent to Browny when i was working there ,Craig put together the randomly pulled 45's from his stock (the lot would most probablyhave been brokered by Martin at the time) those were busy times at anglo and it was a few days before the boxes got opened .Anyways part way into sifting through Browny says "mmm dya know Dennis Edwards on Int... ? " of course at the time my answer was no he stuck both sides on and it knocked us sideways! It got played quite a few times in the warehouse that day during which time Browny shouting another T.B discovery..(at least he thinks he's discovered a soul record ah ) after listening and roughly dating the record our assumption was Edwards had to be with Motown at the time so rather a odd release.Other things in the lot were the Lonnie Lesters ,paramounts-magnum all in small quantities amongst others a nice little lot,infact i remember Browny calling Craig and being honest enough to mention the inclusion of the D.E letting him know it was a bit of something (maybe after he'd asked if he'd got anymore of it).Then Martin was sent the details and found it ,think it was on those Detroit tapes he did.There is quite a lot more to the story though i have included it in the record digging book.It is some years ago though Jim you got me questioning me memory... either way one of the best double siders to come along so late in the day and criminally one of the best double siders to never really take off.

So Andy is there any consensus view on how many have been discovered since 1991? I have a white demo and to my knowledge its the only one in Australia.. and I think I've only ever seen a solitary light brown issue listed. Any info appreciated.

Cheers

Pete

[Dave Pinch]

could be the old memory fading but did soul sam play JOTS quite a bit in the very early 90`s.........i think his copy came from tim. didnt really hear IDHT til probably mid 90`s when pete lowrie played it a lot

[Jim Ohara]

Hey Andy

great to hear from you mate and i hope you are well?

Thanks for the clarification, great when all the information comes together isn't it

Totally agree, the disc never really made the impact that it possibly deserved - a pity when i see some of the ordinary stuff getting played of late

Anyway, look forward to catching up soon and keep those stories coming

best

jim

[jocko]

_{So Andy, are you saying it is real? Or do I have to wait for the book to know? I have always been on the doubting side due to its sound, the complete polished sound, i.e. its not just a demo he knocked up and someone release it, and the fact they did it in his own name ignoring one of the most allegedly toughest companies to go up against owning that name. It has always felt too unbelievable. However if you are saying its real that is good enough for me, my doubting cap is gone.}

_{As for that Jim O lad, never trust a salesman!}

[Jim Ohara]

Now then Jocko, i've been telling you since 1990 that it was real - you should trust us salesmen - especially me!!!

i will post Ron Murphys confirmation letter - just in case there may still be a little seed of doubt roling around in that mature (if somewhat pickled) head-

i know how you hate to be proved wrong mate, but this time........................

[jocko]

Yes Mr O. We have been debating this for some time. I think Andy has the casting vote here, definitely.

[Jim Ohara]

OMG, i don't believe it Mr Jocko - would one be admitting defeat?????

[jocko]

No just a repositioning of opinion and a shift in perception.

As you know I am never wrong.

[Jim Ohara]

ah! i have you know Mr Jocko

Apologies and much grovelling for even considering that you may have been wrong!!!!!

[Tony Smith]

could be the old memory fading but did soul sam play JOTS quite a bit in the very early 90`s.........i think his copy came from tim. didnt really hear IDHT til probably mid 90`s when pete lowrie played it a lot

Didn't Sam pay in the region of 1500 for it?, caused a bit of a stir at the time and was the record that got Sam playing 60's again.

[Jim Ohara]

Tony, i think you may be right there as i seem to remember him playing it at the Ritz

[Dysonsoul]

So Andy is there any consensus view on how many have been discovered since 1991? I have a white demo and to my knowledge its the only one in Australia.. and I think I've only ever seen a solitary light brown issue listed. Any info appreciated.

Cheers

Pete

Pete it's always hit and miss accurately defining quantity, but at a guess maybe 25 ,i've only had one spare probably 3 or so copies through Kp[[ell the odd ones here and there private collectors under the radar have ,few through the bay.. never the less it's pretty rare !

[Dave Pinch]

and usually white demo`s too..the stock must be imposible, he wrote the celebrities on boss also... 1965..when did he join the contours?

[Dave Pinch]

Pete it's always hit and miss accurately defining quantity, but at a guess maybe 25 ,i've only had one spare probably 3 or so copies through Kp[[ell the odd ones here and there private collectors under the radar have ,few through the bay.. never the less it's pretty rare !

half a dozen thru the bay..all white uns

[MrsWoodsrules]

Two great sides, but exactly what does 'Johnny On The Spot' mean?

I wonder every time I hear it but forget to ask.

Aid.

[Dave Pinch]

Two great sides, but exactly what does 'Johnny On The Spot' mean?

I wonder every time I hear it but forget to ask.

Aid.

see post 16

[MrsWoodsrules]

see post 16

Ahh, cheers Dave........must pay more attention, my teachers were right

Aid.

[Premium Stuff]

This is one explanation of the origin of 'Johnny on the Spot' I have seen before that I thought was interesting

https://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-joh3.htm

Cheers

Richard

[MrsWoodsrules]

This is one explanation of the origin of 'Johnny on the Spot' I have seen before that I thought was interesting

https://www.worldwide.../qa/qa-joh3.htm

Cheers

Richard

Interesting that Rich.

Jesus, I know its OT, but I've only just realised Virgin Henry is a man, always sounded like Gladys Knight-ish on You Ain't Saying Nothing New & penny just dropped when playing I'll Be True. doh...... we live & learn.

Aid.

Edited November 23, 2012 by MrsWoodsrules

[Dave Pinch]

Interesting that Rich.

Jesus, I know its OT, but I've only just realised Virgin Henry is a man, always sounded like Gladys Knight-ish on You Ain't Saying Nothing New & penny just dropped when playing I'll Be True. doh...... we live & learn.

Aid.

and gil blanding on ready is the same....er,,fella

[Kev Cane]

It was Martin who found it Jim, about the time you mention, maybe 1991? Shipped over to Tim and the rest is as they say history.

Hi Chalky, myself and Gaz Simon visited Martin in 1989 and he played us it then so I think maybes it was discovered well before 1991

Regards

Kev

[Chalky]

Hi Kev, I meant turned up over here 1991. As Andy mentioned the first o e over here came via Craig Moerer. Fantastic double sider but never really taken off for some reason. Don't think any DJ has got behind it for long enough really.

[Pete S]

Just to reiterate, Chalky sold his last year, it was a browny coloured issue not a white demo, think he might have sold it to Ted, he bought it on a trip to Detroit.

[Jumpinjoan]

Hi Kev, I meant turned up over here 1991. As Andy mentioned the first o e over here came via Craig Moerer. Fantastic double sider but never really taken off for some reason. Don't think any DJ has got behind it for long enough really.

Really? I think it has. Or do you mean in the mainstream sense? I agree about no particular DJ though but that's because a lot have it hence it being played by many

Stunning record!

[Chalky]

Really? I think it has. Or do you mean in the mainstream sense? I agree about no particular DJ though but that's because a lot have it hence it being played by many

Stunning record!

I mean across the scene. I agree it is a fabulous double sider but it simply, to me, doesn't seem to have caught on like it should have. Plenty of DJ's seem to have a copy but seem reluctant to play it with any regularity.

[Jumpinjoan]

I mean across the scene. I agree it is a fabulous double sider but it simply, to me, doesn't seem to have caught on like it should have. Plenty of DJ's seem to have a copy but seem reluctant to play it with any regularity.

We'll have to agree to disagree but agree

[Dysonsoul]

_{So Andy, are you saying it is real? Or do I have to wait for the book to know? I have always been on the doubting side due to its sound, the complete polished sound, i.e. its not just a demo he knocked up and someone release it, and the fact they did it in his own name ignoring one of the most allegedly toughest companies to go up against owning that name. It has always felt too unbelievable. However if you are saying its real that is good enough for me, my doubting cap is gone.}

_{As for that Jim O lad, never trust a salesman!}

Aye Jock it's bona fida a real release the vinyl ,label certainly generic... also the fact that Craig had been sitting on the stock for some time before sending them over here.One can presume Craig had seen plenty of D.E 45's and maybe at the time was just another record by him? Like you say the two sides are well produced and technically a finnished project and could well have been recorded at Motown..pretty much the full run of the stock copies reside in the same place give or take a short stroll they've been in since pressed - with zilch chance of them ever being available..

[Dave Pinch]

is there not a chance he recorded this before he joined motown.....he was in he contours 66 to 68 ,, he wrote the celebrities on boss (ydttt) in 1965.. i know we all seem to go for this `moonlighting` but is it not possible he made it independently before he joined berry gordy

[Garethx]

The RCA matrix tells us this was mastered between January and June 1966.

[Chalky]

"Just a little Misunderstanding" was completed in March 1966. Joe Stubbs left after this and Edwards joined, is this right? So going by the RCA matrix Gareth mentions he more than likely recorded this before joining Motown and the Contours? Maybe Berry Gordy got wind of this recording and not wanting it to interfere with what he was now doing with the Contours made sure it never got released?

[Dave Thorley]

Spoke to Dennis some years ago an he remembers recording it. He said the guy that cut the record never paid him on it and didn't tell him he had put it out, it wasn't until many years later that he realised it had been released.

It does turn up from time to time in Detroit in black neighborhoods, so clearly did sell a few copies.

[Dave Pinch]

"Just a little Misunderstanding" was completed in March 1966. Joe Stubbs left after this and Edwards joined, is this right? So going by the RCA matrix Gareth mentions he more than likely recorded this before joining Motown and the Contours? Maybe Berry Gordy got wind of this recording and not wanting it to interfere with what he was now doing with the Contours made sure it never got released?

very possible chalky,,,but i think maybe he cut this independently very end of 65 poss early 66 tying in with gareth`s post ( and got mugged by the sound of things) ....but then litterally months later motown came knocking and he joined the contours sometime between apr /june66, he doent seem to be on any contours recordings before this only the ones recorded in a 15 month period (june66 to sept 67) after which they were dropped by motown and split...then he had another stroke of luck