Uniform Record Prices?

[Simsy]

One dealer has a certain record in his box for £100. Three steps away another dealer has an identical copy for £70. Why?

I know condition comes into it and the best price he can get away with. But what's an acceptable limit - £20? £30 difference?. I bought a Roy Hamilton - You shook me up a while back for £140. I thought that was a good price. Went to a local Herts soul night couple weeks later, dealer there had same record - £200!

I know there a loads of examples of this even records that are over a hundred pounds in difference. But these boys are not fools, they know the real worth of their records. There shouldn't really be more than a twenty to thirty pound difference from dealers for the same record, should there?

[Pete S]

One word...

GREED

[Simsy]

One word...

GREED

Yeah bit fed up with that really. That couple of paces away scenario was real and chummy with the £100 sound crapped out cos I bought it for less from another dealer just across the way.

[Pete S]

I had a record on here last week (on Thelma) for £75 and in the same sales section someone else had it for £125...that's £50 in the space of one column

[Simsy]

I had a record on here last week (on Thelma) for £75 and in the same sales section someone else had it for £125...that's £50 in the space of one column

That just makes me think I'd buy from you, but avoid the other guy like the plague.

I wonder if the 'over inflaters' know the affect they have on people. Or is it just me?

[Pete S]

That just makes me think I'd buy from you, but avoid the other guy like the plague.

I wonder if the 'over inflaters' know the affect they have on people. Or is it just me?

Did you see my "Ridiculously expensive records for sale" post the other day? Don't think everyone realised it was ironic. Especially the bloke who asked for a record despite mestating that I had prices the records three times more than they were actually worth

[Simsy]

Did you see my "Ridiculously expensive records for sale" post the other day? Don't think everyone realised it was ironic. Especially the bloke who asked for a record despite mestating that I had prices the records three times more than they were actually worth

I saw that.

This prices thing is well out of whack. I've been flicking through a box before, come across a record I've been after and thought to myself "I'm having that". Easy to get carried away, especially after a couple of beers.

Thank god for mates in times like that "Simsy, eighty pounds for 'My baby likes to boogaloo' no!

[Marc Forrest]

Many collectors I spoke with agreed that todays "market" is as volatile as never ever before. A 45 can be 250 UKP on a sales list and make 675 or only 375 USD on ebay the next day...strange but true.

Marc

[Girthdevon]

I had a record on here last week (on Thelma) for £75 and in the same sales section someone else had it for £125...that's £50 in the space of one column

Same here - copy of Al Johnson on Burt for £75 while in another sales thread someone was mentioning what a great sound it is @ £120......

Admittedly there is a difference in condition of the two copies - but not THAT much.

Girf

[Martint]

Same here - copy of Al Johnson on Burt for £75 while in another sales thread someone was mentioning what a great sound it is @ £120......

Admittedly there is a difference in condition of the two copies - but not THAT much.

Girf

I ended up selling a copy of Al Johnson for 75. To be fair, with some records there is a less clearly defined 'price' for them. At the time I acquired it, I saw Al Johnson listed for 200 quid on some sites (probably still is) but when I failed to shift at ever decreasing prices I just kept reducing it until it did sell. I don't think it's necessarily greedy to ask 150 quid for a record which is listed on several 'big dealers' lists for 200 quid, especially when it also getting talked about, though you have to decide whether you want to keep it forever or start reducing it if it doesn't sell. Dreadful record IMO anyway... at the end of the day you have to pay the 'going rates' for the records you want, so you have to try and get 'the going rates' for records you sell. We all over and under pay and probably over and under price from time to time. Nobody is perfect in that regard.

Martin

[Chalky]

Saw greed mentioned but who is the greedy one? Often it's the uninformed collector with too much money lacking knowledge and experience, you can't always blame the dealer, especially in an auction situation. Some collectors will go that extra yard to get a copy these days ignoring the fact that the record is often listed one way or another on a weekly basis...they should do their homework .

When you've been round records for many years you know the value or have a good idea, demand is also another consideration and that could be local demand as much as national.

[Pete S]

Saw greed mentioned but who is the greedy one? Often it's the uninformed collector with too much money lacking knowledge and experience, you can't always blame the dealer, especially in an auction situation. Some collectors will go that extra yard to get a copy these days ignoring the fact that the record is often listed one way or another on a weekly basis...they should do their homework .

When you've been round records for many years you know the value or have a good idea, demand is also another consideration and that could be local demand as much as national.

The greedy one is the person asking a lot more than the record is worth, it's pretty simple mate.

[Simsy]

I don't think dealers ripping off punters because they can is on really. Doesn't sit well with scene etiquette.

[Chalky]

The greedy one is the person asking a lot more than the record is worth, it's pretty simple mate.

no one has to pay the price though if it's too expensive? no one forces them.

Collectors are still paying a three figure sum on ebay for a record like Ruby Andrews and others...you would think the buyers would have wised up by now. So who can blame the dealer for asking say £120 on a list or in a box for a record which in reality is worth a fraction of that???

I do agree with you basically though

[Chalky]

I don't think dealers ripping off punters because they can is on really. Doesn't sit well with scene etiquette.

You mention a record for £70 and £100 yards away from each other, what was the record? For all we know the £100 could be thye right price and the £70 one a bargain?? Same as the Roy Hamilton you mention, yes reasonable price I would agree but I've seen it go for more.

There is enough information in the market place, enough places to find out information to put a stop to the so called greed but do the collectors care? no they would sooner pay over the odds to secure a copy rather than bide their time until another one at a reasonable price comes along.

Edited January 24, 2006 by chalky

[Pete S]

no one has to pay the price though if it's too expensive? no one forces them.

Collectors are still paying a three figure sum on ebay for a record like Ruby Andrews and others...you would think the buyers would have wised up by now. So who can blame the dealer for asking say £120 on a list or in a box for a record which in reality is worth a fraction of that???

I do agree with you basically though

Do you remember the other week when Martha Reeves - No one there was being discussed, it had sold for some ridculous 3 figure sum, I said it was only worth 70 or 80 quid tops...lo and behold, I get a copy the next week, stuck it on the list at (I think) 75 because thats what I think it IS worth - cue about 15 people after the same record, people emailing me saying I should have stuck 150 quid on it, etc etc. The honest truth is that I KNOW I should have stuck at least 125 on it because it would have sold easy - but that would have made me a hypocrite of the highest order.

You mention a record for £70 and £100 yards away from each other, what was the record? For all we know the £100 could be thye right price and the £70 one a bargain??

Don't lead me on - emanuel laskey - near mint thelma.

Now after listing it at £75, I put it on Ebay at buy it now £75 and it still didn't sell, so how can it possibly be worth more than that???

[Chalky]

Do you remember the other week when Martha Reeves - No one there was being discussed, it had sold for some ridculous 3 figure sum, I said it was only worth 70 or 80 quid tops...lo and behold, I get a copy the next week, stuck it on the list at (I think) 75 because thats what I think it IS worth - cue about 15 people after the same record, people emailing me saying I should have stuck 150 quid on it, etc etc. The honest truth is that I KNOW I should have stuck at least 125 on it because it would have sold easy - but that would have made me a hypocrite of the highest order.

Don't lead me on - emanuel laskey - near mint thelma.

Now after listing it at £75, I put it on Ebay at buy it now £75 and it still didn't sell, so how can it possibly be worth more than that???

I meant the one Ian mentioned in the original post Pete???

[Simsy]

You mention a record for £70 and £100 yards away from each other, what was the record? For all we know the £100 could be thye right price and the £70 one a bargain?? Same as the Roy Hamilton you mention, yes reasonable price I would agree but I've seen it go for more.

There is enough information in the market place, enough places to find out information to put a stop to the so called greed but do the collectors care? no they would sooner pay over the odds to secure a copy rather than bide their time until another one at a reasonable price comes along.

Lonnie Lester for £100. I bought mine for £80. £100 is too much for that I think looking at what half a dozen or so have sold for in the recent past.

I bought Roy Hamilton from your mate Andy Dyson for £140 - good price. £200 - bad price.

Edited January 24, 2006 by Simsy

[Ted Massey]

Do you remember the other week when Martha Reeves - No one there was being discussed, it had sold for some ridculous 3 figure sum, I said it was only worth 70 or 80 quid tops...lo and behold, I get a copy the next week, stuck it on the list at (I think) 75 because thats what I think it IS worth - cue about 15 people after the same record, people emailing me saying I should have stuck 150 quid on it, etc etc. The honest truth is that I KNOW I should have stuck at least 125 on it because it would have sold easy - but that would have made me a hypocrite of the highest order.

Don't lead me on - emanuel laskey - near mint thelma.

Now after listing it at £75, I put it on Ebay at buy it now £75 and it still didn't sell, so how can it possibly be worth more than that???

Pete I think you like underpricing cause you get loads of calls to keep you busy and they might just ask if you have another record they are after, i think some dealers have in the past advertised a record they dont have just to get a response or am i giving dealers too much credit for having the intelligence

[Chalky]

Butch had Lonnie Lester for £100. I bought mine from Dave Rimmer for £80. £100 is too much for that I think looking at what half a dozen or so have sold for in the recent past.

I bought Roy Hamilton from your mate Andy Dyson for £140 - good price. Sean Chapman £200 - bad price.

Have seen plenty of Lonnie Lester's for around the £100 mark don't think too unfair on that one, maybe tad over priced yeah but there's enough selling it over priced. Last two on ebay (on popsike) £97 and £100.

Remember the Roy Hamilton now.

[Simsy]

Last two on ebay (on popsike) £97 and £100.

If you'd have said the last three on there, the third one went for £62. Just thought I'd mention it

[Simsy]

In some respects it's a shame that a uniformed price guide is not feasible. There would be more clarity, less confusion and anyone deviating from the set price guide would be nicked by the soul police and thrown in soul nick where they play Dire Straits 24hrs a day!

[Pete S]

Pete I think you like underpricing cause you get loads of calls to keep you busy and they might just ask if you have another record they are after, i think some dealers have in the past advertised a record they dont have just to get a response or am i giving dealers too much credit for having the intelligence

Thats bollocks Ted. It's hard going at the moment. I take any sales I can get but I like to think I do it fairly. Everyone's feeling the pinch!

[Ted Massey]

Thats bollocks Ted. It's hard going at the moment. I take any sales I can get but I like to think I do it fairly. Everyone's feeling the pinch!

Never thought you was unfair Pete think you are doing it in the right way. they are no good sittting in your box only costing you money , no insult intended but some dealers have done what i said and even multi sold one copy, a certain LP springs to mind

[Chalky]

If you'd have said the last three on there, the third one went for £62. Just thought I'd mention it

so far then thats two copies cheap and three at what appears to be the going rate

[Pete S]

Never thought you was unfair Pete think you are doing it in the right way. they are no good sittting in your box only costing you money , no insult intended but some dealers have done what i said and even multi sold one copy, a certain LP springs to mind

No I know what you mean and undoubtedly people list things they haven't got, but I sell records 'cheap' literally so I can sell them! 10 quid profit is better than no profit. Although I think I've made more money from not drinking and smoking since baby was born than I have from selling records lately

[Simsy]

so far then thats two copies cheap and three at what appears to be the going rate

Three? Do you mean the £88 one? That was a while ago.

LONNIE LESTER ~ RARE UNPLAYD NORTHERN SOUL 45 2003-07-14 118 USD

NORTHERN SOUL ! LONNIE LESTER - YOU CAN'T GO. ORIG.45 2004-07-19 151 USD

NORTHERN SOUL.LONNIE LESTER - YOU CAN'T GO. ORIGINAL 45 2004-10-18 131 USD

NORTHERN SOUL-LONNIE LESTER-MONSTER 2004-10-31 88 GBP

LONNIE LESTER 45 Nu-Tone YOU CHOOSE Northern Soul 2004-12-27 109 USD

LONNIE LESTER - YOU CAN'T GO - NUTONE1211 2005-01-13 62 GBP

northen soul monster lonnie lester you cant go 2005-04-15 100 GBP

Northern soul Lonnie Lester You can't go NU-TONE 2005-05-25 97 GBP

Edited January 24, 2006 by Simsy

[Guest Dan]

Should start by saying I think your prices are often very good Pete. But I presume you price them at a price to move them on - in other words, to increase your turnover and, therefore, your profit (which is fair enough).

Can't understand how it can be 'greedy' to take the other option, though - ie sell fewer records but make more on each one? It's six and two threes, basically.

I don't blame anyone asking whatever they can and sorry Ian, just can't get myself worked up over it.

Certain dealers (we all know who they are) are expensive but that's their call. If I see a record which is priced higher than I want to pay, I move on. As Chalky says, it's a market; no-one's arm is twisted.

I only sell a few bits but if it's something I've got several of, or know where there are more, I price low and if it's something I don't want to sell that much but which is in demand and might get me a too-good-to-miss deal, I go high. Then if I don't sell it, I'm still happy, if you know what I mean.

Other side of the coin is Joe Dunlop; Joe was cheap for years IMO (though he's more market rates now) and fair enough, he knew what he was doing; people, including me, were more than happy take advantage of his prices by buying stuff off him but no-one came on accusing purchasers of being greedy for keeping more money in their pockets!

It's a market, we're all adults, what's the problem?

[Pete S]

Anyone wanting a copy of Lonnie Lester should ask Tim Ash, he had about 50 copies last time I saw him...

[Simsy]

Anyone wanting a copy of Lonnie Lester should ask Tim Ash, he had about 50 copies last time I saw him...

Wonder what he was asking for each of those?

[Chalky]

Three? Do you mean the £88 one? That was a while ago.

No I mean the one you saw in a box for a £100

[Simsy]

No I mean the one you saw in a box for a £100

Of course. What'll you bet me this Tim Ash geezer is knocking them out at £65 - £70 ???

[Pete S]

Wonder what he was asking for each of those?

100 each I think. Then again, it was 2 Prestatyns ago

[Simsy]

100 each I think. Then again, it was 2 Prestatyns ago

Strewth and he had 50 copies !!??

[Pete S]

Strewth and he had 50 copies !!??

At least 50...hey but good luck to him, in the general scheme of things Tim's a good guy, one of the most honest

[Martyn Pitt]

Strewth and he had 50 copies !!??

Not suprised common enough record a few years back, gave Butch £7 for mine.

Lonnie Lester - Aint That a Shame - Nu Tone probably still cheap at the moment and a much better dancer, worth looking out for.

Martyn

[Simsy]

Not suprised common enough record a few years back, gave Butch £7 for mine.

Few years forward and £93 on the price. NS record buying eh? I arx yer

[Larsc]

While looking for one of my recent wants I found copies listed on two old lists. Both lists from well known dealer/collector/djs. One copy £10, other copy £100

[Dave Rimmer]

Lonnie Lester for £100. I bought mine for £80. £100 is too much for that I think looking at what half a dozen or so have sold for in the recent past.

I bought Roy Hamilton from your mate Andy Dyson for £140 - good price. £200 - bad price.

Well you could have actually said who sold you the Lonnie Lester

[Simsy]

Well you could have actually said who sold you the Lonnie Lester

I did old son Look at one of Chalky's posts (above) where he replied to me. I was being a bit vague so I named names. Then edited as the 'names' were/are a bit brutal.

QUOTE(Simsy @ Jan 24 2006, 01:52 PM)

Butch had Lonnie Lester for £100. I bought mine from Dave Rimmer for £80. £100 is too much for that I think looking at what half a dozen or so have sold for in the recent past.

I bought Roy Hamilton from your mate Andy Dyson for £140 - good price. Sean Chapman £200 - bad price.

Edited January 24, 2006 by Simsy

[Simsy]

Incidentally anyone know what's a fair price for Joe Jama these days?

Saw one of those that night. Now there's a prime record for 'full overs'.

[Guest]

Well you could have actually said who sold you the Lonnie Lester

?

[Guest]

I bought Roy Hamilton from your mate Andy Dyson for £140 - good price. Sean Chapman £200 - bad price.

Sean sells loads of £20-30stuff for fiver`s,i`ve had loads of good one`s,so there

Edited January 24, 2006 by ken

[Simsy]

Incidentally anyone know what's a fair price for Joe Jama these days?

Saw one of those that night. Now there's a prime record for 'full overs'.

27 Opptimum Joe Jama My life VG £500

Above is from Shifty's list Dec 05. The one I saw may have been mint but it was ... (drum roll) ... £1300 !

Was only released on one label wasn't it?

[Simsy]

Sean sells loads of £20-30stuff for fiver`s,i`ve had loads of good one`s,so there

This is why naming names is probably best kept short.

I've bought quite a few sounds from him also. However his rates for in demand sounds can be quite spectacular.

[Dave Rimmer]

I did old son Look at one of Chalky's posts (above) where he replied to me. I was being a bit vague so I named names. Then edited as the 'names' were/are a bit brutal.

QUOTE(Simsy @ Jan 24 2006, 01:52 PM)

Butch had Lonnie Lester for £100. I bought mine from Dave Rimmer for £80. £100 is too much for that I think looking at what half a dozen or so have sold for in the recent past.

I bought Roy Hamilton from your mate Andy Dyson for £140 - good price. Sean Chapman £200 - bad price.

So you did. Mised it in Chalky's reply. Ta.

[Girthdevon]

I ended up selling a copy of Al Johnson for 75. To be fair, with some records there is a less clearly defined 'price' for them. At the time I acquired it, I saw Al Johnson listed for 200 quid on some sites (probably still is) but when I failed to shift at ever decreasing prices I just kept reducing it until it did sell. I don't think it's necessarily greedy to ask 150 quid for a record which is listed on several 'big dealers' lists for 200 quid, especially when it also getting talked about, though you have to decide whether you want to keep it forever or start reducing it if it doesn't sell. Dreadful record IMO anyway... at the end of the day you have to pay the 'going rates' for the records you want, so you have to try and get 'the going rates' for records you sell. We all over and under pay and probably over and under price from time to time. Nobody is perfect in that regard.

Martin

Martin - I should have added that I thought your price was reasonable too cos I had seen this listed @ £200. I gauged my price on recent Ebay prices, and taking condition into account came up with £75. And I thought it was dreadful too . Still got it as well Ha !!!

Girf

[Sebastian]

I don't get it. What is so dreadful about the Al Johnson 45 on Burt? Sure, the "Sittin' Around" side is pretty bland... but "Soul Time" is so jam packed with punch, energy and overall grittyness that I find it hard not to love it. It hasn't got that "northern" tempo but that has never mattered to me. I love it. Not at £125 though...

[Codfromderby]

One dealer has a certain record in his box for £100. Three steps away another dealer has an identical copy for £70. Why?

I know condition comes into it and the best price he can get away with. But what's an acceptable limit - £20? £30 difference?. I bought a Roy Hamilton - You shook me up a while back for £140. I thought that was a good price. Went to a local Herts soul night couple weeks later, dealer there had same record - £200!

I know there a loads of examples of this even records that are over a hundred pounds in difference. But these boys are not fools, they know the real worth of their records. There shouldn't really be more than a twenty to thirty pound difference from dealers for the same record, should there?

has anybody thought about the psychology of buying, lots of records go for massive prices on well known auctions, but would they sell for that amount if sold by joe public ?, lots of records are priced at 100+ on dealers lists but are also available on every other dealers lists therefore easily available (if wanted)

the kudos of spending a large amount on a 45 from a big name is MASSIVE, the bad bit is finding out that what you have bought may be plentifull

p.s for sale the startones on billie fran

[Sweeney]

There will never be 'uniform' prices - there's probably never BEEN uniform prices. There are too many variables to take into account.

The fundamental problem is this - we as members of the Rare Soul scene are perfectly happy to pay ridiculous amounts of money for records. The more inflated the better. You could argue that people see it as a badge of honour. What does £50 get you? or even £100? in most cases it would seem not that much. People outside of the scene must think we're all eccentric millionaires!

Do dealers reflect demand? do they create (sometimes artificial) demand? How rare are the so-called rare records? Are dealers of the opinion that there's a finite amount of time left for the scene, and they wish to maximise profits while they still can? Who knows.

There's a real lack of perspective, I'm afraid. People mostly chase after the same in-demand records, and as a result prices become inflated and volatile. As a result there can be no quantifiable measure of market value.