Whats It All About?

[Andyj]

With reference the 'locked' post reference Blackpool Weekender I would like to make the following point(s)

I got into the scene in the mid to late seventies as a schoolboy, listeing to sounds like Bok to Bach, The Snake, Pye Disco Demand re issues etc and learned to dance at the local youth club disco's. I attended Wigan late 1978 into 1979 as 16/17 year old still at school, this opened my eyes to the amount of sounds I had never heard but still love to this day. By the time I was 19 I was married and had a family to support so buying OVO was way out of my league so used to buy the Casino Classic/Grapevine/Disco Demand re-issues or pressings etc as they were affordable. In later years I have increased my music collection by buying CD compilations.

Does the above make me an anti soul fan? I don't think so I love the music, love to dance and as I have just got back into the scene with a vist 1st to Scarborough then Blackpool I must say that my wife and me loved both events that we can't wait for the next one!

However I must say that the 'Open letter to Kev Roberts' post dismayed me as it feels as if the scene is beset by infighting over OVO vrs music and oldies vrs new/modern, come on we all love the music surely that's what it's all about, isn'it?

Edited November 13, 2012 by AndyJ

[Wiggyflat]

If you decided that the scene seems to be lacking and you put on an event and started to deejay wiith the records you have listed above....that seems to be the problem....ie too many Indians with poundland arrows.

[Andyj]

If you decided that the scene seems to be lacking and you put on an event and started to deejay wiith the records you have listed above....that seems to be the problem....ie too many Indians with poundland arrows.

I'm not saying the records I listed are my current favorites, just these are how I and I would guess many others first heard about Northern Soul. I was making the point that it's about the music, Modern or oldies it's still the same, or put another way me and many other returnee's just love the sounds, surely it's how the records sound rather than how rare it is that makes it good!

Edited November 13, 2012 by AndyJ

[TOAD]

orig 45s at that time could be bought cheaper than a nasty bootleg or reissue !

[Geeselad]

I've said it many times before, but for me and many others, OVO, is an intrinsic part of the heritage of the scene and essential, imho to its survival. Collecting and a turnover of fresh sounds be they re-activations or fresh discoveries comes from collector and collecting, has nothing to do with bootleggers or the guys who play them, sometime perfectly validly at local soulnights, where no one give a dip. No OVO, no collectors, no scene, or whats left of it, simple as that.

The scene has always been unique from other revivalist music types, rock and roll for example, Northern was always and still is, just a living breathing entity that is in constant flux and development, something more than a buch of teds dressed in bobby sock and clown trousers

[Raremusicdirect]

As I mention, 2 different scences, both happy to exist in their own way - one the majority and one the minority...........sometimes we happily co-exist ; sometimes it spills over, either way prob best to live and let live ; because I for sure havent seen any evidence of conversion and arguments being won

[Pete S]

No OVO, no collectors, no scene, or whats left of it, simple as that.

Apart from the thousands packing out weekenders, allnighters and local soul nights?

[Andyj]

I've said it many times before, but for me and many others, OVO, is an intrinsic part of the heritage of the scene and essential, imho to its survival. Collecting and a turnover of fresh sounds be they re-activations or fresh discoveries comes from collector and collecting, has nothing to do with bootleggers or the guys who play them, sometime perfectly validly at local soulnights, where no one give a dip. No OVO, no collectors, no scene, or whats left of it, simple as that.

The scene has always been unique from other revivalist music types, rock and roll for example, Northern was always and still is, just a living breathing entity that is in constant flux and development, something more than a buch of teds dressed in bobby sock and clown trousers

I don't disagree with you, without the collecters the scene would die, but the reason for my post was just that it's the music that counts

Edited November 13, 2012 by AndyJ

[Andyj]

orig 45s at that time could be bought cheaper than a nasty bootleg or reissue !

back in 1977/78 a new chart 45 would be about 60/70p pressings/imports about £1.50 when I left school in 78 and went to 6th form i got £2.50 a week pocket money (allowance my dad called it) that was for every thing so paying

more than £1.50 for originals was impossible, yes you could pick up some originals for a decent price and I did so.

[Len]

come on we all love the music surely that's what it's all about, isn'it?

…..You would think so wouldn’t you mate? But (apart from the music) the ‘elitism’ (for want of a better word) is what attracted me to the Scene. Things like, certain D.J’s playing certain records, that ‘magic’ even makes them sound better to me, which I am aware seems ridiculous to some folk. But it’s that kind of thing that made it all so special, so when any ‘Tom, Dick or Harry’ puts on an event (or D.J’s) that Magic is lost.

I know lots of people don’t share my views and I respect that, I would never look down on them for one moment like some people seem to, by using terms such as ‘Hand Baggers’ - This kind of thing makes the ‘elitism’ bit seem 'unfriendly and exclusive’, whereas it really needs to be seen as 'welcoming and inclusive’

As far as I’m concerned, Mr Kev Roberts can do exactly what he pleases and good luck to him. He is very good at what he does and although I don’t know him personally, I am pretty damn sure he genuinely loves the music. He was ‘there’ in the early days, he understands the Scene and to be perfectly honest I smile because I get the impression he laughs his head off at all us lot bickering like children

The people who are at the top of their game are normally the nicest, most unassuming people you could meet, they are not the ones that go around criticising other people or events.

….With the right attitude from both sides, things can only get better.

All the best,

Len

Edited November 13, 2012 by LEN

[Andyj]

….With the right attitude from both sides, things can only get better.

I tried to click like to your post but it seems I've used up my likes for the day!

[viphitman]

I hope in years to come I can still ....eat cheddar made in Sommerset, drive a german car made in Germany, have a bottle of champagne from France ..... go to a gallery and admire real works of art, go to a shop and buy the real McCoy…

The issue with ovo is always whether djs should play ovo at allnighters and nighters or not …!!!! Whether a punter decides to buy whatever format is not the bone of contention for most !!!!

While late 80’s/ early 90’s the ovo wasn’t really an issue as the scene was small, exciting and dedicated and not every dick & tom and famous dj wanted to dj for their own ego !!!

…sorry to say that but the soul scene is slowly watered down by the just want to have fun & don't care about this or that brigade within the last 12 years or so and will end up the same as any other inner city disco.... there is not even respect for certain aspects like original vinyl, diverse playlists, date clashes and so on just constant arguments and excuses from dick & tom...

in comparrison it appears in europe and funny enough in the usa as well things seem to have developed quite nicely with a lot of respect and alltough maybe not always a house full of hard core soulies but at least promoters, djs, collectors and hard core soul punters spreading the faith and keeping it special !!!!! newies to the scene always get that little tingle once they get hooked because of ALL the rather snobby aspects of the soul scene....like the dancing, the ovo & collecting madness, the traveling, the friendlyness, dedication and so on....

[Pete S]

I hope in years to come I can still ....eat cheddar made in Sommerset, drive a german car made in Germany, have a bottle of champagne from France ..... go to a gallery and admire real works of art, go to a shop and buy the real McCoy…

The issue with ovo is always whether djs should play ovo at allnighters and nighters or not …!!!! Whether a punter decides to buy whatever format is not the bone of contention for most !!!!

While late 80’s/ early 90’s the ovo wasn’t really an issue as the scene was small, exciting and dedicated and not every dick & tom and famous dj wanted to dj for their own ego !!!

…sorry to say that but the soul scene is slowly watered down by the just want to have fun & don't care about this or that brigade within the last 12 years or so and will end up the same as any other inner city disco.... there is not even respect for certain aspects like original vinyl, diverse playlists, date clashes and so on just constant arguments and excuses from dick & tom...

in comparrison it appears in europe and funny enough in the usa as well things seem to have developed quite nicely with a lot of respect and alltough maybe not always a house full of hard core soulies but at least promoters, djs, collectors and hard core soul punters spreading the faith and keeping it special !!!!! newies to the scene always get that little tingle once they get hooked because of ALL the rather snobby aspects of the soul scene....like the dancing, the ovo & collecting madness, the traveling, the friendlyness, dedication and so on....

The thing you European chaps never take into account is just how old most of the people on the scene in the UK are. When we were your age we were all as enthusiastic about originals and travelling etc. like you are now. The majority of us are between 45 and 65 years old now. Nowadays I'm more enthusiastic about getting a good nights kip and a decent bacon sandwich on a sunday morning.

[Barry]

The thing you European chaps never take into account is just how old most of the people on the scene in the UK are. When we were your age we were all as enthusiastic about originals and travelling etc. like you are now. The majority of us are between 45 and 65 years old now. Nowadays I'm more enthusiastic about getting a good nights kip and a decent bacon sandwich on a sunday morning.

Agreed.

Back int theighties, we used to thumb it to venues if train fare wasn't available....none of this having a car luxury and cushty hotel malarky....just before we cracked thice ont pond wi' our Grans falsies.

...and as for air fare haha

Edited November 13, 2012 by Barry

[Geeselad]

Apart from the thousands packing out weekenders, allnighters and local soul nights?

there certainly not on or into any kind of scene, just attending themed revival nights run for commercial profit, like er the teds, that your generation tended to look at in disgust. sad really, old men cynically exploiting something that some still take seriously.

[Ady Croasdell]

The thing you European chaps never take into account is just how old most of the people on the scene in the UK are. When we were your age we were all as enthusiastic about originals and travelling etc. like you are now. The majority of us are between 45 and 65 years old now. Nowadays I'm more enthusiastic about getting a good nights kip and a decent bacon sandwich on a sunday morning.

True but I think it's more down to family commitments and attitude than age. Look at our Geoff who had a 65th last year and has discovered a scene which has followed on from his love of soul in the original mod days. He treks all over the place and dances away when his legs aren't struggling and loves the new discoveries to boot!

[viphitman]

The thing you European chaps never take into account is just how old most of the people on the scene in the UK are. When we were your age we were all as enthusiastic about originals and travelling etc. like you are now. The majority of us are between 45 and 65 years old now. Nowadays I'm more enthusiastic about getting a good nights kip and a decent bacon sandwich on a sunday morning.

Yes, indeed Pete, in Europe you have a few 45 + punters but the main amount of people are youngish... but at the same time I know a lot of folks 55 + from the UK with the same ideas & believes...

I just believe in buy local think global, support products where made in ..... still means made in & not bloody screwed together .... , original format at allnighters/nighters but anyway each to their own I guess

[Pete S]

there certainly not on or into any kind of scene, just attending themed revival nights run for commercial profit, like er the teds, that your generation tended to look at in disgust. sad really, old men cynically exploiting something that some still take seriously.

My generation looked at the Teds in disgust? I'm f*cking 52 for God's sake

[Pete S]

Agreed.

Back int theighties, we used to thumb it to venues if train fare wasn't available....none of this having a car luxury and cushty hotel malarky....just before we cracked thice ont pond wi' our Grans falsies.

...and as for air fare haha

We'd go to places like Newcastle Tiffanies all dayers knowing we had absolutely no way of getting home on a sunday night - 45 miles from home, walking it, sometimes getting a lift!

[Barry]

We'd go to places like Newcastle Tiffanies all dayers knowing we had absolutely no way of getting home on a sunday night - 45 miles from home, walking it, sometimes getting a lift!

It certainly was more difficult then, what with dodgy train and bus services, little cash and good gear ;0) - but I'm pleased it was.

[Geeselad]

My generation looked at the Teds in disgust? I'm f*cking 52 for God's sake

sorry only I've heard quite a few 50 something go on about how they looked down on the ted revivalists from the 7ts, as backward looking and deeply uncool, for gods sake ted was a term of derision in the 9ts for my generation.

[Pete S]

there certainly not on or into any kind of scene

So you're saying that only you and the people who swear undyingly to original vinyl are the Northern Soul scene, and all the other thousands of people attending the do's I mentioned week in and week out are not on the scene and not fit to be on the scene? That must mean there's only 400 'proper' people left on the Northern Soul scene in the UK.

[Pete S]

sorry only I've heard quite a few 50 something go on about how they looked down on the ted revivalists from the 7ts, as backward looking and deeply uncool, for gods sake ted was a term of derision in the 9ts for my generation.

Oh I get what you mean now.

They were like antiquities from another age.

[Guest smudgesmith]

…..You would think so wouldn’t you mate? But (apart from the music) the ‘elitism’ (for want of a better word) is what attracted me to the Scene. Things like, certain D.J’s playing certain records, that ‘magic’ even makes them sound better to me, which I am aware seems ridiculous to some folk. But it’s that kind of thing that made it all so special, so when any ‘Tom, Dick or Harry’ puts on an event (or D.J’s) that Magic is lost.

I know lots of people don’t share my views and I respect that, I would never look down on them for one moment like some people seem to, by using terms such as ‘Hand Baggers’ - This kind of thing makes the ‘elitism’ bit seem 'unfriendly and exclusive’, whereas it really needs to be seen as 'welcoming and inclusive’

As far as I’m concerned, Mr Kev Roberts can do exactly what he pleases and good luck to him. He is very good at what he does and although I don’t know him personally, I am pretty damn sure he genuinely loves the music. He was ‘there’ in the early days, he understands the Scene and to be perfectly honest I smile because I get the impression he laughs his head off at all us lot bickering like children

The people who are at the top of their game are normally the nicest, most unassuming people you could meet, they are not the ones that go around criticising other people or events.

….With the right attitude from both sides, things can only get better.

All the best,

Len

Nice post Len........agree totally.

PS You still buying your dirty mags from Sainsbury,s?

[Betty Bump]

Surely its the choice of the organiser of the event, let the dj's know what they can or can't play ie ovo, 2nd issues,cd etc. I have a mixture (no cd's) but will ask what is acceptable and stick to what they have requested. Simple. I have only been collecting for 2 years so my collection was a mixture to start with, but as time has gone by I do my best to buy ovo (cash permitting). KTF

[Shinehead]

I don't think listening to soul music made in the 60s or 70s is very cutting edge and thus backward looking and uncool

[Guest john s]

Oh I get what you mean now.

They were like antiquities from another age.

They could move pretty fast when they were chasing you up North End Road after a punk gig, though!

[Pete S]

They could move pretty fast when they were chasing you up North End Road after a punk gig, though!

I didn't quite get what he meant about the Teds, I know the punks thought the Teds were redundant, can't say as I ever did because I never saw any!

But this is the same as the people on here who are embarassed by the baggy trouser brigade. Live and let live I say.

[Guest john s]

I didn't quite get what he meant about the Teds, I know the punks thought the Teds were redundant, can't say as I ever did because I never saw any!

I grew up in West London, which was heavily cut with them! I used to go to a fair number of rock'n'roll gigs as well as punk gigs - most of the rockers were absolutely fine when they realised I was into the music, but some always had something to prove!

Edited November 13, 2012 by john s

[Liljimmycrank]

Opinions are like ar*eholes. We've all got one. That aint changing any time soon, neither is the OVO versus bootleg debate.

Some promoters allow bootlegs to be played, some people advocate bootlegs being played, some people talk up DJ's who play majority bootlegs, some will campaing vehemently for OVO.........That's just their opinion, just like it was Matt's opinion that bootlegs shouldn't be played at something being promoted as the best weekender in the world.

You might say he's talking out of his ar*ehole, but it's just his opinion. I happen to agree with him, but then that's just my opinion too, spoken through the media of typing via my fingers, not my ar*ehole.

So AndyJ, don't be dismayed when people share their opinions, just accept it for what it is

[Ady Croasdell]

They could move pretty fast when they were chasing you up North End Road after a punk gig, though!

Rather off topic, as a punk I got attacked by a gang of Teds and skins going to Petticoal Lane market on a Sunday morning in 1977. It still qualifies as my earliest time of day for a scrap.

[Guest john s]

A breakfast scrap, rather than a very late scrap the night before...

Edited November 13, 2012 by john s

[Simsy]

With reference the 'locked' post reference Blackpool Weekender I would like to make the following point(s)

I got into the scene in the mid to late seventies as a schoolboy, listeing to sounds like Bok to Bach, The Snake, Pye Disco Demand re issues etc and learned to dance at the local youth club disco's. I attended Wigan late 1978 into 1979 as 16/17 year old still at school, this opened my eyes to the amount of sounds I had never heard but still love to this day. By the time I was 19 I was married and had a family to support so buying OVO was way out of my league so used to buy the Casino Classic/Grapevine/Disco Demand re-issues or pressings etc as they were affordable. In later years I have increased my music collection by buying CD compilations.

Does the above make me an anti soul fan? I don't think so I love the music, love to dance and as I have just got back into the scene with a vist 1st to Scarborough then Blackpool I must say that my wife and me loved both events that we can't wait for the next one!

However I must say that the 'Open letter to Kev Roberts' post dismayed me as it feels as if the scene is beset by infighting over OVO vrs music and oldies vrs new/modern, come on we all love the music surely that's what it's all about, isn'it?

Good posting Andy and fair points made.

Whilst I think Wiggy was pretty spot on with your first reply on this thread Andy, I think it goes without saying we are all soul fans and love the music, no matter what. However dj's and promoters are extra special soul fans if you like. I look up to Ted Massey (amongst many others) as a collector and top dj and when I pay may £12 to get in and thirty quid in petrol, I know he won't let me down. In fact the opposite, I half expect to be wowed by the set and usually I am.

There's the difference, if there's a facebook invite to a soulie's party in a pub, it's free to get in and they're playing music on any format, I don't really care.

We pay, you play (ovo).

[Shsdave]

Blimey don't remember you in your bondage troosers Ady

[Wiggyflat]

I didn't quite get what he meant about the Teds, I know the punks thought the Teds were redundant, can't say as I ever did because I never saw any!

But this is the same as the people on here who are embarassed by the baggy trouser brigade. Live and let live I say.

I remember in about 78 and 79 there were actual Teddy boy families with mam,dad and the kids.I always thought that it was odd....i was a kid in dealer boots and an adidas top.The dads always had an exagerrated look from the fifties early teds with grey in their hair, tons of tattoos,loads of rings and Mud style drapes.I'm looking forward to seeng northern soul families on the bus.

[Guest gordon russell]

I'm not saying the records I listed are my current favorites, just these are how I and I would guess many others first heard about Northern Soul. I was making the point that it's about the music, Modern or oldies it's still the same, or put another way me and many other returnee's just love the sounds, surely it's how the records sound rather than how rare it is that makes it good!

What you're not getting is.......it,s a question of integrity...........would you go to watch BARCELONA play ....and have them send out the youth side......it,s still footy...they still wear the same shirts....the players play for BARCELONA....it,s at their ground and it,s in SPAIN....it,s cost you an arm and a leg to get in.........answer NO....because you're not getting and they're not giving what you,ve paid for.....you're getting a poorer product

Edited November 13, 2012 by gordon russell

[Pete S]

What you're not getting is.......it,s a question of integrity...........would you go to watch BARCELONA play ....and have them send out the youth side......it,s still footy...they still wear the same shirts....the players play for BARCELONA....it,s at their ground and it,s in SPAIN....it,s cost you an arm and a leg to get in.........answer NO....because you're not getting and they're not giving what you,ve paid for

I wouldn't go and watch Barcelona play if you paid me, they're f*cking boring.

If you rephrase it and substitute the word Barcelona for Wolverhampton Wanderers then I'd probably agree with you.

[Wiggyflat]

Rather off topic, as a punk I got attacked by a gang of Teds and skins going to Petticoal Lane market on a Sunday morning in 1977. It still qualifies as my earliest time of day for a scrap.

They might be on here....

[Mark S]

Bootlegs have no place at all period . re-issues legit copies cd,s etc depends on circumstances/venue .

[Gogger]

They might be on here....

looks like a werewolf convention about 1:44

[Russ Vickers]

So you're saying that only you and the people who swear undyingly to original vinyl are the Northern Soul scene, and all the other thousands of people attending the do's I mentioned week in and week out are not on the scene and not fit to be on the scene? That must mean there's only 400 'proper' people left on the Northern Soul scene in the UK.

Yep, give or take a score or too....

Russ

[Guest Brett F]

With reference the 'locked' post reference Blackpool Weekender I would like to make the following point(s)

I got into the scene in the mid to late seventies as a schoolboy, listeing to sounds like Bok to Bach, The Snake, Pye Disco Demand re issues etc and learned to dance at the local youth club disco's. I attended Wigan late 1978 into 1979 as 16/17 year old still at school, this opened my eyes to the amount of sounds I had never heard but still love to this day. By the time I was 19 I was married and had a family to support so buying OVO was way out of my league so used to buy the Casino Classic/Grapevine/Disco Demand re-issues or pressings etc as they were affordable. In later years I have increased my music collection by buying CD compilations.

Does the above make me an anti soul fan? I don't think so I love the music, love to dance and as I have just got back into the scene with a vist 1st to Scarborough then Blackpool I must say that my wife and me loved both events that we can't wait for the next one!

However I must say that the 'Open letter to Kev Roberts' post dismayed me as it feels as if the scene is beset by infighting over OVO vrs music and oldies vrs new/modern, come on we all love the music surely that's what it's all about, isn'it?

All i can say in response to your post is....If you don't know, then you really don't need to know........All i ask is, when you leave this room will you please close that door firmly behind you, and leave this room to those that do know....

Edited November 14, 2012 by Brett F

[Northernjordan]

I dont like to get bogged down in these debates.

But, in my opinion. If you pay a lot of money (In ticket value and travel costs) to go to a "top" weekender or night. I for one would be very disappointed if the Djs were not playing original vinyl.

However, if i were to go to a local night, get in for free or pay my £2 (which more often than not is going to a charity) if a reissue or whatever is played it really doesnt bother me. I'm just there to have a good time not for the format.

[Guest Brett F]

I dont like to get bogged down in these debates.

But, in my opinion. If you pay a lot of money (In ticket value and travel costs) to go to a "top" weekender or night. I for one would be very disappointed if the Djs were not playing original vinyl.

However, if i were to go to a local night, get in for free or pay my £2 (which more often than not is going to a charity) if a reissue or whatever is played it really doesnt bother me. I'm just there to have a good time not for the format.

Brilliant....yep local event, i'd be more than happy if the local dj sang all the songs..gotta be better than some fool who has spent his money on illegal bootlegs...cut the middle man out i say..Live DJ's singing the big tunes..woop- de - doo...

Edited November 14, 2012 by Brett F

[Northernjordan]

Brilliant....yep local event, i'd be more than happy if the local dj sang all the songs..gotta be better than some fool who has spent his money on illegal bootlegs...cut the middle man out i say..Live DJ's singing the big tunes..woop- de - doo...

haha, maybe my attitude is more to do with the rural area i live in and soul nights are pretty thin on the ground to say the least. So I'm just grateful to hear soul music out and about.

[Guest giant]

orig 45s at that time could be bought cheaper than a nasty bootleg or reissue !

well said Toad' you could buy a rare record back then for peanuts 'compared to current day prices.

as you say shit bootlegs and reissues sell for more than some originals did 35 years.

Edited November 14, 2012 by giant

[Guest giant]

I don't disagree with you, without the collecters the scene would die, but the reason for my post was just that it's the music that counts

and you don't care what label its on 'you only want to hear whats coming out of the speakers.

shame on you 'OVO will always rule

[Guest gordon russell]

True but I think it's more down to family commitments and attitude than age. Look at our Geoff who had a 65th last year and has discovered a scene which has followed on from his love of soul in the original mod days. He treks all over the place and dances away when his legs aren't struggling and loves the new discoveries to boot!

got to echo that...big up to geoff....never hear him moan about travelling,legs to tired ect ect......or derek from gloucester way or indeed willie from carlisle...........it,s all about a positive attitude

[Guest giant]

Brilliant....yep local event, i'd be more than happy if the local dj sang all the songs..gotta be better than some fool who has spent his money on illegal bootlegs...cut the middle man out i say..Live DJ's singing the big tunes..woop- de - doo...

well put lad :thumbup:

[Guest Bearsy]

I'm not saying the records I listed are my current favorites, just these are how I and I would guess many others first heard about Northern Soul. I was making the point that it's about the music, Modern or oldies it's still the same, or put another way me and many other returnee's just love the sounds, surely it's how the records sound rather than how rare it is that makes it good!

And most of the tunes people crave are RARE and probably why most boots are boots of rare tunes and most of the top oldies djs play the rarest of the rare. Rarity has nothing to do with it IMHO it's what's in the groove but for me it has to be the original groove.

Imagine you misses saying to you when your feeling a tad horny one night, here you go love I made a latex mould of my minge so when you fancy a bit and I'm not interested you can carry on without me cos after all its what's in that groove that counts ......

Btw I think if you like/love soul music your a soulie ;-)