Rem Records Detroit

[Blackpoolsoul]

"Hello My Darling" was June 1962 and Dorothy (RIP) was known at Motown as the "Epitome of style" (wonder if that's where the Sty-letts name came from). After leaving Motown, she worked for Amtrak for 28 years.

https://www.pyefuneralhome.com/obituaries/Dorothy-Pierce-2/#!/Obituary

On 07/08/2021 at 11:47, Robbk said:

Dorothy Pierce is the name of Brian Holland's mother-in-law.  I've been told by several people that Brian and Eddie Holland (and by several others that H-D-H) used that name to cover the fact that they were moonlighting from Motown back then (1962-63).  I've never seen any proof of that.  But, it would be quite a coincidence for another woman to have had that same name, been an R&B/Soul songwriter and producer in Detroit.  I find it interesting because Robert Bateman told the story that he quit Motown in Spring 1962, because Brian and Eddie told him that they were going to jump from Motown to Wilbur Golden's new Correc-Tone Records, and told him they were offered big salaries, and so he decided to go with them, and told Berry he was going to quit if he wouldn't match Golden's offer.  Gordy told him he wouldn't match it, so Bateman left.  Soon after, he found out that Gordy bought new Cadillacs for Brian and Eddie, and gave them large regular salaries to stay, but it was too late for Bateman to undo his quitting.  So, it would be very interesting (and strange) that Brian and Eddie would accept Berry's offer for them to stay, and they would NOT jump over to Correc-Tone, and yet, they would moonlight with Hi-Lite/Rem/Pillar.  And it is also interesting that Janie Bradford (at that time, still one of the main songwriters at Motown) would moonlight writing songs for Golden's Correc-Tone.  Why would they accept Gordy's raises and decent amount of regular pay, and then do what they had planned with Golden, but with someone else???  I guess they thought Berry would never find out,- but if they worked for Golden, he'd have been looking for that, so they'd get caught.  It's all very weird.

I don't think she was Brian's Mother-in-law 

Dorothy Lee Carter, (born, October 8, 1943 - died, May 14, 2015

Edited August 9, 2021 by Blackpoolsoul

[Robbk]

7 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

"Hello My Darling" was June 1962 and Dorothy (RIP) was known at Motown as the "Epitome of style" (wonder if that's where the Sty-letts name came from). After leaving Motown, she worked for Amtrak for 28 years.

I don't think she was Brian's Mother-in-law 

Dorothy Lee Carter, (born, October 8, 1943 - died, May 14, 2015

Your wording makes it difficult to understand your point.  Are you saying that you think Dorothy Lee Carter was The "Dorothy Pierce" credited on those records; but the Dorothy Pierce who WAS Brian Holland's mother-in-law was NOT the same Dorothy Pierce who was credited on the records?  And you think that she wrote the songs and produced the records, and that Brian Holland did not?

Remember, we are only telling you what people who had been in the business of making Soul records in Detroit at the time those records were made told us.  Sal Prado, a member of The Seminoles, who recorded for Hi-Lite Records from 1962-64(when Dorothy or Brian worked for them), told me that the Dorothy Pierce who wrote and produced those songs and records, was Brian Holland's mother-in-law, and that she never wrote a song, or produced a record, but that Brian used that name as an alias.  He was around at Hi-Lite/REM all during that time, as The Seminoles recorded many songs for them. 

Ron Murphy told me that that was the scuttlebutt at the time.  Other people from Detroit's music business at that time, also told me that.  And another poster on this thread stated that he also had heard that from people who should have known that.  Neither of us are claiming that we know, for a fact, that Brian Holland was moonlighting there at that time.  We were just telling you what we were told from people who we think should know about that. 

To me, most of those songs sound very little like Brian's songwriting.  And the records, overall sound is very little like what he was producing at Motown.  But, so many people have told me that Brian's wife's mother was named Dorothy Pierce.  Everywhere I looked in researching that confirmed that that was, indeed his wife's mother's name.  So, I think it would be quite an unlikely coincidence that a DIFFERENT Dorothy Pierce worked at Hi-Lite, Rem, Pillar, and Thelma Records in Detroit, making R&B/Soul records.

So, what exactly is the point you are trying to make?

[G F]

Barbara Mercer (and her man, George McGregor) told me that Brian had the keys to the Motown studio and that the songs were actually recorded in the Snakepit. 

[Blackpoolsoul]

17 minutes ago, Robbk said:

Your wording makes it difficult to understand your point.  Are you saying that you think Dorothy Lee Carter was The "Dorothy Pierce" credited on those records; but the Dorothy Pierce who WAS Brian Holland's mother-in-law was NOT the same Dorothy Pierce who was credited on the records?  And you think that she wrote the songs and produced the records, and that Brian Holland did not?

Remember, we are only telling you what people who had been in the business of making Soul records in Detroit at the time those records were made told us.  Sal Prado, a member of The Seminoles, who recorded for Hi-Lite Records from 1962-64(when Dorothy or Brian worked for them), told me that the Dorothy Pierce who wrote and produced those songs and records, was Brian Holland's mother-in-law, and that she never wrote a song, or produced a record, but that Brian used that name as an alias.  He was around at Hi-Lite/REM all during that time, as The Seminoles recorded many songs for them. 

Ron Murphy told me that that was the scuttlebutt at the time.  Other people from Detroit's music business at that time, also told me that.  And another poster on this thread stated that he also had heard that from people who should have known that.  Neither of us are claiming that we know, for a fact, that Brian Holland was moonlighting there at that time.  We were just telling you what we were told from people who we think should know about that. 

To me, most of those songs sound very little like Brian's songwriting.  And the records, overall sound is very little like what he was producing at Motown.  But, so many people have told me that Brian's wife's mother was named Dorothy Pierce.  Everywhere I looked in researching that confirmed that that was, indeed his wife's mother's name.  So, I think it would be quite an unlikely coincidence that a DIFFERENT Dorothy Pierce worked at Hi-Lite, Rem, Pillar, and Thelma Records in Detroit, making R&B/Soul records.

So, what exactly is the point you are trying to make?

I did wonder if she was the same lady (connection with style/styl-etts) as she worked for Berry, her name could have been the one "used" for credits as suggested previously and I forgot to post the link (which I have now done.

It all could be coincidence of course,, but life is full of them, as we all know

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I did wonder if she was the same lady (connection with style/styl-etts) as she worked for Berry, her name could have been the one "used" for credits as suggested previously and I forgot to post the link (which I have now done.

It all could be coincidence of course,, but life is full of them, as we all know

I read Dorothy Pierce-Carter's obituary, and discovered that she was a different Dorothy Pierce from Brian's first mother-in-law, and she wasn't his second mother-in-law (THAT would have been too ridiculous of a coincidence!).  It's enough of a coincidence that THIS Dorothy Pierce also worked at Motown.  So, maybe THIS Dorothy Pierce was the songwriter and Sty-lett's producer, while SHE was working for Motown, but NOT moonlighting, because SHE did not have an exclusive songwriting and record producing contract with Motown.  So, Berry would have had no problem with HER writing songs for another record company, as long as she did her work at Motown adequately. 

So, that odd coincidence may explain why Pierce's songs sound nothing like Brian's writing, and maybe Brian WASN'T moonlighting at all, after Berry gave him and Eddy Cadillacs, and gave them a good, regular salary to not jump over to Golden's Correc-Tone.  And the rumour that Brian was moonlighting only came about because people knew that Brian's mother-in-law's name was Dorothy Pierce, but didn't know that a current Motown worker had the same exact two names.

But, how does that explain that Sal Prado, a member of The Seminoles, who were around Hi-Lite/Rem's offices and recording sessions, a lot, didn't know that a young woman named Dorothy Pierce, who was too young to be Brian's mother-in-law, was writing songs for their artists, and producing, and attending recording sessions with their artists?  And why did he think Brian Holland was working for Meehan, if he wasn't?

I really thought it would have been a mistake for Brian to be moonlighting after being bribed by Berry to stay.  And I never thought Pierce's writing and production was remotely like his Motown product.  So, I half believe this explanation.  But it also has its believability problems.  I guess we'll never know for sure.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Robbk