Omnibus: Volume 1 Re-Issued Boxset ?

[Pete S]

https://www.spincds.c...-hardback-book/

its £229 here in uk if you fancy one

Nah, in my house it would gather dust faster than a K-Tel Best of Disco compilation

Edited November 12, 2012 by Pete S

[Mal C]

I think all of Numero's releases are second to none, I'll be getting this box, and I have a subscription to the labels output which is really worth getting. and in a round about answer to earlier posts, I generally only collect originals, but in recent years I like the old boots and repro's I used to get when I was in my teens, and had no money, I prefer to play some of them over the originals I have to be honest..

Its all good...

Mal.C

[Guest john s]

https://www.spincds.c...-hardback-book/

its £229 here in uk if you fancy one

That appears not to have the 'bonus' 45 that came with the first 500 sets...

[MrsWoodsrules]

Well, to be honest, wouldn't mind the Sag War Fare or the Two Plus Two.

But not originals are they? So it's just pretend.

Not a bad idea & to each their own & they seem to be a very innovative label & I do like the box.

This T-Shirt from an excellent record shop in Boston looks cool.

https://weirdorecords.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=9308

At least its an original.

Aid.

[boba]

I don't know if this affects the debate or not, but the sag war fare is mastered very well and sounds better than the original 45.

[Cover-up]

I don't know if this affects the debate or not, but the sag war fare is mastered very well and sounds better than the original 45.

But... but.... but...

IT'S KILLING THE SCENE!

Glad to see this thread has descended into the depths of o.v.o. petty "debate". I think i'm going to grab one of these sets, looks the business. And if it sounds the business too, then it's a no-brainer.

In reply to the Lacoste copy mentioned earlier, if the Sag War Fare 45 sounds better than the original, who's to say the counterfeit Lacoste top wasn't actually superior to the genuine article???!!!

[boba]

But... but.... but...

IT'S KILLING THE SCENE!

Glad to see this thread has descended into the depths of o.v.o. petty "debate". I think i'm going to grab one of these sets, looks the business. And if it sounds the business too, then it's a no-brainer.

In reply to the Lacoste copy mentioned earlier, if the Sag War Fare 45 sounds better than the original, who's to say the counterfeit Lacoste top wasn't actually superior to the genuine article???!!!

what do you mean "descended into"? "OVO" is in the first post.

[Kris Holmes]

what do you mean "descended into"? "OVO" is in the first post.

a rapid descent

[Guest]

Does anyone know what the bonus 45 in the omnibus 45 set is ?????????

[Marc Forrest]

lets face it...these kinda things kill indeed the upfront scene. not the kings hall kinda scene, its not what I am on about. let them play not only their oldies in fact let them even play their bootlegs if they wanna. its a completely different world to what my "world" of rare soul scene is build of. my scene is full of people all across the world these days, people that are motivated and young in their heart collectors, dj´s and dancers, people whose main part of their spare time it is to travel all across europe these days, from club to allnighter to weekender and back to a soul club again to hear these precious and fresh rare soul sounds and to meet fellow and like-minded soulies. the fuel for all these travels and allnighters are fresh tunes. with no fresh tunes left or the few fresh tunes being made available way too early (thru re-issues) these tunes loose their appeal for many. for many the appeal to travel and attend do`s. in result these "fresh" tunes are getting fewer and fewer, new ones are getting harder and harder to find.

So to have a box of 45 (plus 1 in fact) of some of the hardest and fresher tunes around in fact is a shot in the knee. Its fine for the people who dont own them originals and yes there`s a demand so from a business point of view well done to who ever satisfies this demand (although I doubnt tehy will sell all 500 boxes..at 350 usd anyway). but to the scene it is doing no favour.

But maybe I am alll wrong anyway, as I understand sag war fare aint that fresh anyway anymore seeing that even soul sam has one by now LOL Tell you what I will wait a year or two now and let my copy be auctioned via JM where can once again describe it as "a current new monster created by soul sam and now championed by only ginger and the lucky few who can call a copy their own"

[Benji]

(although I doubnt tehy will sell all 500 boxes..at 350 usd anyway

Bonus 45 only available to first 500 boxes and already sold out. So I guess more than 500 boxes already gone.

[Guest]

I always say the same thing did the artists recording these records at the time want there music played to but a few or would they prefer to have the world to hear there records.

[Ian Dewhirst]

I always say the same thing did the artists recording these records at the time want there music played to but a few or would they prefer to have the world to hear there records.

No, they'd prefer to never have a tune heard until 40 years later and only then heard by an elite squad of fans, collectors and DJ's on a relatively small scene......

It's amazing that Numero have probably already outsold ANY of the original pressings in that box set already. Also amazing that an artist like Syl Johnson in the twilight of his life (no pun intended), can outsell most of the records he released throughout his entire career and reach a huge fresh audience with an expensive box set.

Call me crazy, but where's the downside?

Ian D

[Marc Forrest]

I always say the same thing did the artists recording these records at the time want there music played to but a few or would they prefer to have the world to hear there records.

thats not a relevant point IMO: play the record at two 800 people strong allnighters and more than three times as many people will have heard it than boxes have been sold

[Marc Forrest]

It's amazing that Numero have probably already outsold ANY of the original pressings in that box set already. Also amazing that an artist like Syl Johnson in the twilight of his life (no pun intended), can outsell most of the records he released throughout his entire career and reach a huge fresh audience with an expensive box set.

Ian D

hard for me to imagine that already 500 boxes have been sold....for example I do not know anybody from the Berlin soul collectors circuit who bought one. the Syl Johnson aspect aint catching either Ian, that was a box full of re-done lp`s by him. I do agree though that this was cool for Syl and well deserved.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Marc Forrest

[boba]

to say it's doing no favor to "the scene" is short sighted imo. In the short term, yes, it may slightly hurt the upfront scene consisting of a relatively small group of people who attend upfront soul nights where the music policy is based on the rarity / exclusivity of records possessed by the top DJs. I understand that hearing an exclusive tune that you waited months to hear and traveled to hear is a special experience for most of the 800 people attending the night.

In the long run, however, it will get many more people into soul 45 collecting and get many more nights started where collectors eventually will seek out rare original 45s. That seems more sustainable that the elite group of (mostly older) people who travel to hear specific rare records.

Moreover, it seems unlikely that DJs on that particular scene will try to pass off any represses as originals. It would be like blasphemy and they would get excommunicated quickly. The people who go to the upfront scene still can participate the same way they did before. Also, the point was already made that the box is not mostly northern records. So is it really true that it's better to withhold a box that contains the potential to get much new blood (e.g. from the US) into "the scene" than potentially (but not really imo, if the policy is "OVO") ruining a couple records for a couple DJs?

Finally, I've made this point before, a scene should be built on DJs putting together great sets of great music. Not DJs dropping $$$$s on a few expensive records. That type of exclusivity is unsustainable in the digital age -- similar to how "information wants to be free". If you think you can keep a record uncirculated / unknown / unrecorded for very long in the global internet age, you're not being realistic. If people can already hear the records on their computers, does it ruin the specialness of traveling to an event to hear the original? if not, then how does a repress which wouldn't be allowed at that event anyways ruin the specialness?

[boba]

hard for me to imagine that already 500 boxes have been sold....for example I do not know anybody from the Berlin soul collectors circuit who bought one. the Syl Johnson aspect aint catching either Ian, that was a box full of re-done lp`s by him. I do agree though that this was cool for Syl and well deserved.

This honestly shows how you don't understand the much larger market that numero has. Plenty of casual music fans who buy records (there are tens of thousands of them) buy numero product, in the US and elsewhere. I'm on another message board consisting of mostly LP collectors who buy all sorts of genres and many of them who don't even buy soul LPs bought the box set because it was so cool in terms of the packaging, diversity of music, etc. It was even mostly sold via preorder. Lots of people who don't even buy much music buy every numero LP.

This is not an attempt to disrespect you, I think that the specialness of being in an exclusive scene can really hide the much larger world of music buyers out there.

[NEV]

I always say the same thing did the artists recording these records at the time want there music played to but a few or would they prefer to have the world to hear there records.

The irony is ,yes they did want the world to hear their music ....but I don't think they were prepared to wait 40 yr for it to happen !

I would also go as far as to say ,when they scrimped together enough money to afford to press up a small run of 45's ,they hoped it would be a hit and make them famous and rich .

So 40 yrs is too late ,most are sadly no longer here and for all the 45's on eBay that us mugs keep buying ..not a cent goes to the artists !

Número do help where they can ,but money aside ,it's cold comfort if you've spent 40 yrs thinking your record was a flop ,only to find a minority of fanatics in Europe actually appreciate it

[Marc Forrest]

This honestly shows how you don't understand the much larger market that numero has. Plenty of casual music fans who buy records (there are tens of thousands of them) buy numero product, in the US and elsewhere. I'm on another message board consisting of mostly LP collectors who buy all sorts of genres and many of them who don't even buy soul LPs bought the box set because it was so cool in terms of the packaging, diversity of music, etc. It was even mostly sold via preorder. Lots of people who don't even buy much music buy every numero LP.

This is not an attempt to disrespect you, I think that the specialness of being in an exclusive scene can really hide the much larger world of music buyers out there.

you may have a point there. I indeed live in my own small universe (no irony intended).

you may have a point there bob

[boba]

So 40 yrs is too late ,most are sadly no longer here and for all the 45's

to address this specific point -- numero will only work with artists who they are actually able to locate (or in a few cases the families of the artists). There are a bunch of cases where there were some in demand 45s (some of them which they wanted to use for this box) that they could have licensed from the producer and publisher but which the artist wanted nothing to do with. They actually passed on those records. Also, it really seems you are making a straw-man argument. Numero has put checks in many people's hands, and in the case where they get film / tv syncs, artists have actually received large checks AND seen their music used on film / TV. Their family also sees the fans of the music posting on youtube, etc. and gets excited.

[boba]

you may have a point there. I indeed live in my own small universe (no irony intended).

you may have a point there bob

honestly, I can at least partially understand how special the scene is to the people who are upset about the box. It's an important part of your and other people's lives.

[Marc Forrest]

to say it's doing no favor to "the scene" is short sighted imo. In the short term, yes, it may slightly hurt the upfront scene consisting of a relatively small group of people who attend upfront soul nights where the music policy is based on the rarity / exclusivity of records possessed by the top DJs. I understand that hearing an exclusive tune that you waited months to hear and traveled to hear is a special experience for most of the 800 people attending the night.

In the long run, however, it will get many more people into soul 45 collecting and get many more nights started where collectors eventually will seek out rare original 45s.

Not only do I doubt that..I know different. Its not a slight hurt, in the big scheme of things as I have pointed out it thinnnes out the sets and in teh long run lets the scene die. theres no one who will having bought the box say "cool, lets see where I can danc eto Two pLus Two...I may even shell out 6000 usd for an oprginal"..thats very naive to think bob.

Moreover, it seems unlikely that DJs on that particular scene will try to pass off any represses as originals. It would be like blasphemy and they would get excommunicated quickly.

You wouldnt be able to know different seeing you live in the USA and obviously havent visited any soul venue in england. especially not behind teh decks..you would be surprised at what you would be able to see at some places....say no more.

[boba]

Not only do I doubt that..I know different. Its not a slight hurt, in the big scheme of things as I have pointed out it thinnnes out the sets and in teh long run lets the scene die. theres no one who will having bought the box say "cool, lets see where I can danc eto Two pLus Two...I may even shell out 6000 usd for an oprginal"..thats very naive to think bob.

so the scene is going to die because you don't have to travel to dance to two plus two on an original 45? that's a good example actually. That record was already reissued before the box. Did that kill the scene? Is it a negative that you no longer want to pay $6000 for an original?

You wouldnt be able to know different seeing you live in the USA and obviously havent visited any soul venue in england. especially not behind teh decks..you would be surprised at what you would be able to see at some places....say no more.

are clubs in the UK much darker than clubs in the US? My point was that the top DJs that play on the scene you're talking about have some sort of personal integrity where they don't try to pass off represses as originals. If someone all of a sudden showed up with a mint copy of an ultra-rare original, people would be pretty suspicious as to where it came from, be trying to look at it and the deadwax, etc. In fact, for most ultra-rare records, you usually know exactly where the record came from (in terms of the seller), right?

[Guest]

There is obviously alot passion for the music from collectors listeners djs etc etc my point without any monetary value attached is I think its brillant that more and more people will get to hear this music particuarly those unable to get access to hearing it there is no doubt a few people on the rare up front scene as it has been coined need recognition for finding and giving it a platform to be heard but should it cease to go beyond that platform, I would suggest without obviously knowing that these artists might get more comfort from known there music is being played by a wide and varied audience and possibly seek some income as Numero might provide. Better late than never I say.

[Marc Forrest]

so the scene is going to die because you don't have to travel to dance to two plus two on an original 45? that's a good example actually. That record was already reissued before the box. Did that kill the scene? Is it a negative that you no longer want to pay $6000 for an original?

yes bob, that record indeed dissapeared from certain playlists... this fact didnt kill the scene but is just one example of a record having lost some of its "myth".

are clubs in the UK much darker than clubs in the US? My point was that the top DJs that play on the scene you're talking about have some sort of personal integrity where they don't try to pass off represses as originals.

sadly not everybody bob. re darkness...german clubs, especially inberlin can be very very dark LOL

[Guest john s]

Does anyone know what the bonus 45 in the omnibus 45 set is ?????????

Soul-Walkers on Cardinal Avalon.

[boba]

yes bob, that record indeed dissapeared from certain playlists... this fact didnt kill the scene but is just one example of a record having lost some of its "myth".

I'm not denying this, I'm acknowledging that this can happen with specific records. it's obviously less "special" now. I'm sort of questioning how that really destroys the scene, it's not like Butch and Dyson's sets were reissued in a box. I understand that it takes a piece of something that's very special to you away from you. But again a) I question a scene built entirely on exclusivity, like it's been destroyed by a box that has a couple rare northern records in it (most of which have previously been reissued) and b) I think the importance of this relatively small scene in your world obscures the larger impact of the box on the world. it's kind of like if there was a secret special underground club where only you and like minded people went. opening that up to everyone else makes it less special.

sadly not everybody bob. re darkness...german clubs, especially inberlin can be very very dark LOL

lol

[boba]

Soul-Walkers on Cardinal Avalon.

Well it's the "other" soul walkers.

[Guest john s]

Well it's the "other" soul walkers.

Don't get you there!

[boba]

Don't get you there!

Sorry to not be clear. There are two soul walkers 45s on cardinal avalon. I thought one was included in the box and one was the bonus.

[Pete S]

my scene is full of people all across the world these days, people that are motivated and young in their heart collectors, dj´s and dancers, people whose main part of their spare time it is to travel all across europe these days, from club to allnighter to weekender and back to a soul club again to hear these precious and fresh rare soul sounds and to meet fellow and like-minded soulies.

You just described me and my mates - 35 years ago!

[Guest john s]

Sorry to not be clear. There are two soul walkers 45s on cardinal avalon. I thought one was included in the box and one was the bonus.

Gotcha!

[Ian Dewhirst]

hard for me to imagine that already 500 boxes have been sold....for example I do not know anybody from the Berlin soul collectors circuit who bought one. the Syl Johnson aspect aint catching either Ian, that was a box full of re-done lp`s by him. I do agree though that this was cool for Syl and well deserved.

As we've said earlier, Numero's releases reach way beyond this scene Marc. They would have had to have sold 500 just to break even I'm sure and they'll more likely go way beyond 1K even at that price. The Syl Johnson box really caught and has been a major sucess but not necessarily within this scene - bear in mind that the box was grammy nominated in the US and the sales were presumably commensurate with that audience.

When you say re-done LP's what do you mean? I thought the box set re-issued all the original Twilight recordings and other bits and pieces.....?

Ian D

[boba]

When you say re-done LP's what do you mean? I thought the box set re-issued all the original Twilight recordings and other bits and pieces.....?

I think it's all the pre-Hi material.

[Ian Dewhirst]

I think it's all the pre-Hi material.

Gotcha!

Ian D

[Marc Forrest]

When you say re-done LP's what do you mean? I thought the box set re-issued all the original Twilight recordings and other bits and pieces.....?

Ian D

yes, exactly what I meant to say. Also maybe worth noting: I do highly appreciate the work numero does and think they have easily become one of the best adresses when it comes to compilation cd`s (and re-releases). They are indeed a bonus.

[Soul-chef]

You just described me and my mates - 35 years ago!

Was thinking the same Pete, when I read Marks Post......We must have been ahead of our time.....lol

[Roburt]

Next time I'm at a soul night, I'll try to ensure that I don't dance to any records that have lost some of their "myth"

I don't want to be excommunicated by the ' Northern soul police'.

[Marc Forrest]

You just described me and my mates - 35 years ago!

and its still happening pete...at a venue near you. why not go out and experience it again ?

[Guest]

If the sound quality of some of these 45's is mastered better than the originals were, there's not much to argue about! That is usually a big downfall to most reissues. It's a cracking set and it opens some real obscurities to a much wider audience. So what if these tunes get played at the local pub now, is that a bad thing?

Hats off to Numero for putting together a killer collection of 45's reissued with a real eye for detail/integrity and enabling a stream of income & recognition to the original artists. I have a few of the original 45's and couldn't give a monkeys that they've now been reissued. Just glad to see amazing music reaching further out !

Edited November 14, 2012 by Guest

[Psamsara]

Just curious if this was done from master tapes or...? what was the source?

I compared that Black Soul Express 45 and it sounds 10 times better on original.

And not just that - why some 45s (and excuse me for probably not puting the right words here, but hopefuly you'll figure out what i'm asking)

have compressed grooves, so to speak.. original has grooves spreading close to the label, while this reissue (and some other 45s i saw - Bus People Express for example) has the last groove almost at the middle. They just doesn't sound that good.

Could someone please explain?

thanks

[Sutty]

I just bought the book and downloads on ebay for £15 (bargain!). The sound quality is superb, 320k MP3's, not a hint of background noise so they're either exceptionally well mastered or from master tapes.

I fail to see what the fuss is about releasing most of this music with northern fans, the vast majority is straight up funk or sweet sounds. I don't recognise a single credit in the book as being anyone associated with the northern scene, it's not sourced or aimed at the northern scene?

cheers Sutty

[Guest]

I only collect originals. But I do support things that get more people into collecting soul 45s.

Trouble is, the re-issues are getting better at looking like the real thing all the time.

Some of these records from this box set will get passed on as originals eventually!

They could put something on them, so they don't get passed on as originals like some other reissue look-a-like labels do!

[boba]

Trouble is, the re-issues are getting better at looking like the real thing all the time.

Some of these records from this box set will get passed on as originals eventually!

They could put something on them, so they don't get passed on as originals like some other reissue look-a-like labels do!

true.the only thing differentiating them are the special sleeves, the deadwax, and in some cases, the publishing. and people can remove the special sleeves.

[The Milk Man]

Just spent the past 30 mins flicking through this so for what it's worth I'll give my view point.

First of all, I've always respected Numero for their releases in terms of content and execution. My appreciation has always been from afar (ie. no purchases) until last week when I bought the Omnibus box set for my girlfriend. There's no better way to get your loved one hooked on vinyl than through this box set (especially when the box colour matches her hair haha). She has put up with me talking and digging for records constantly that I figured it would be better to share the "collective" aspect (box full of tasty 45s) and also hopefully spark off her own collection.

Anyway, I've been collecting 2 years now and have only had a taste for original pressings, always very much straying away from reissues and unfortunately having an ear for expensive tunes. The Omnibus box set is right up my street in terms of genre and once again Numero have done a fantastic job with the overall construction. For me, it's the perfect "starter" kit to get anyone hooked on record collecting and interested in soul & funk.

Over the past several years I've travelled across Europe with friends to hear tunes we've known certain DJs have and would be peeved off as a punter if these DJs were reeling off bootlegs but obviously this wouldn't be the case due to their reputation.

Personally I think the box set will introduce this music that we love and live for to a MUCH larger audience, which will more than likely encourage more people (including a younger generation) to start collecting. Before this box set was released, I wanted to own certain 45s from the set, and now I still do and would pay their worth. Collecting, for me, is very personal and when that original 45 turns up that you have been after for a while you can't compare it to a disposable reissue. It's knowing that you have finally got an original copy of one of your favourite tunes in your hands.

My only disappointment would be that for the majority of the collection, the only difference between the reissue and original can be found in the dead wax. This could make it a hell lot more tricky when buying online, especially dealing with high valued 45s and also to people with not much knowledge on dead wax markings including myself.

Possibly because it's a set, a record collection with box and reading material justifies it's worth for me, because on the other hand I wouldn't go near a one off reissue of the Hopkins Brothers or similar...looks like I'm back at square one!

Edited November 21, 2012 by The Milk Man

[Corbett80]

Good post above. Following on from this went to a Lee Fields gig the other week in London. He opened with a cover of 'Two Timer' and had everyone in there singing along word for word, as he did for the rest of his set of contemporary recordings. What I saw was a room of lots of young music lovers who had travelled to hear real soul music from a real soul artist. The excitement and passion was palpable. These people aren't from the northern soul scene but they are people who like and appreciate soul music. As Bob points out there is a larger soul appreciative audience out there outside of our close knit community. As a modest collector I can perfectly appreciate people's frustrations when they've paid good money for an original 45 to then hear it somewhere where they feel it isn't being appreciated 'correctly' or indeed played by someone they feel doesn't have the same passion for the music. Things are changing however and from all of this I think new fans will appear - not necessarily on the soul scene as we know it - but in some way and appreciating the music in their own way. I think this box set is good for all of that but does make life harder for the hardcore collector.

I'm trying hard to think of other ways I could spout some more fence sitting sentences but hopefully you know what I mean :)

Edited November 23, 2012 by corbett80

[Mister Fish]

Good post above. Following on from this went to a Lee Fields gig the other week in London. He opened with a cover of 'Two Timer' and had everyone in there singing along word for word, as he did for the rest of his set of contemporary recordings. What I saw was a room of lots of young music lovers who had travelled to hear real soul music from a real soul artist. The excitement and passion was palpable. These people aren't from the northern soul scene but they are people who like and appreciate soul music. As Bob points out there is a larger soul appreciative audience out there outside of our close knit community. As a modest collector I can perfectly appreciate people's frustrations when they've paid good money for an original 45 to then hear it somewhere where they feel it isn't being appreciated 'correctly' or indeed played by someone they feel doesn't have the same passion for the music. Things are changing however and from all of this I think new fans will appear - not necessarily on the soul scene as we know it - but in some way and appreciating the music in their own way. I think this box set is good for all of that but does make life harder for the hardcore collector.

I'm trying hard to think of other ways I could spout some more fence sitting sentences but hopefully you know what I mean :)

Hi Joel, sorry I missed you at Lee fields. Great gig and like you say I too was amazed at the young crowd singing along and the enthusiasm. Gives real hope for the future of Soul music. I went with my partner and whilst she likes some Soul she prefers House and Indie but adores LF and has downloaded all his albums.

Lots of people don't give a hoot about labels just enjoying the music. I think for what's it worth that the Lee Fields and Charles Bradley are bringing a whole new generation to this wonderful music.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Mister Fish

[boba]

Lee Fields is huge, I've seen honey dove syncs on almost all the fox sunday animated shows.

[Godzilla]

Lee Fields is huge, I've seen honey dove syncs on almost all the fox sunday animated shows.

Yep. Heard it used on an episode of American Dad last week.

[Guest Brett F]

Also saw Lee Fields live in Manchester earlier this year along with Steve Cato and Dave Ripolles, show was awesome, and full of young folks dancing and they knew all the hooks and words..none of them came from the scene I belong too...There is a world out there full of young music lovers, they know what they like..Thank God they do.