New Discovery? Already Known? Blind Billy 45

[Greg Belson]

Rare gospel northern soul....I've still got to find any solid info on this 45!

I know that it's written by Marvin Griffin & produced/engineered by Neal Hemphill.....possibly performed by Marvin too. I'm aware of the Bobby Dobyne & Pat & the Neurotics sides for Crown Ltd, plus I have a few other gospels too. But I've had this record now for a while, and haven't heard mention of it anywhere else.

If it is an unknown, then what do you think? Cheers!

[KevH]

Like it.!!!

[grant]

nice tune never heard it before

[Roburt]

Like it a lot ........ when do these 'early series' Crown Ltd 45's date from ?.... mid 60's ??

Guess we have little chance of establishing who Blind Billy was (could well have been a 'gospel star' from a group trying his hand at a R&Bish solo session).

Do the gospel singles on the label span the divide (time wise) between the soul sides ??

The label was of course re-activated in the 80's for those fine David Sea cuts.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Roburt

[Gene-r]

Nice!

[Peter99]

Yes, I like it too.

[Soul-slider]

Thumbs up!

[Marc Forrest]

yeah, me likey too

[Greg Belson]

Like it a lot ........ when do these 'early series' Crown Ltd 45's date from ?.... mid 60's ??

Guess we have little chance of establishing who Blind Billy was (could well have been a 'gospel star' from a group trying his hand at a R&Bish solo session).

Do the gospel singles on the label span the divide (time wise) between the soul sides ??

The label was of course re-activated in the 80's for those fine David Sea cuts.

Here's the info I have on all 3 45's in my possession;

The Spring Highland Gospel Singers ‘I’m tired, my soul needs rest’ / ‘Oh what a fellowship’ (Crown Ltd #109) feat. Henry Williams and Cornelius Boyd

Blind Billy 'Nothing but the holy ghost' / 'More like Jesus' (Crown Ltd #114) Written By Marvin Griffin & produced/engineered by Neal Hemphill

The Birmingham Spirituals ‘New thing going around’ / ‘Talk about Jesus’ (Crown Ltd. CL BS 119) feat. W. Thomas, S. Rogers & L. Thomas (purple label)

And the 2 soul cuts I know of;

Pat & the Neurotics 'I like the way you do your things' / 'St. James In Firmory' (Crown Ltd # 113) Written by Daniel Peterman, produced/engineered by Neal E. Hemphill.

Bobby Dobyne & the Barefacts 'Hold on, I'm coming' / 'Soulful sound of music' (Crown Ltd #120) Produced by Hal Hodgens, engineer is Gaston Nichols

So immediately, I'm seeing the Neal Hemphill connection between the Pat & the Blind Billy sides.....awesome!

Edited November 8, 2012 by Greg Belson

[arnie j]

thats fantastic,sort of gospel crossover ? lol,hes got a fantastic raw but quality voice,loved it,thanks for posting

jason

[Sebastian]

A few more in the early Crown Ltd. series:

CROWN LTD. 106 - The Offbeats - I Feel Fine / Love Me Girl

CROWN LTD. 108 - Results Of Adults - Under Ground Purple / Nite Out

CROWN LTD. 110 - Joe Spencer - I Remember / ?

CROWN LTD. 112 - Eugene & The Mishaps - I'm A Man / ?

CROWN LTD. 116 - Mournin' Fogg - Seasonal Love / Big Boss Man

The releases on Crown Limited from the mid-80s is the same label. For example:

David Sea - Night After Night / When Did You Start To Stop Loving Me

David Sea - Who's Been Warmin' My Oven / Do it Right Now

June Bug - If You Do The Crime (You Got To Serve The Time) VOCAL / INSTRUMENTAL

Any additions to the below?

CROWN LTD. 104 - Elizabeth D. Williams - Sleep On Doctor King, Sleep On / God's Amazing Grace

CROWN LTD. 105 - Chosen Son's Of God - He Watches Over Me / How I Got Over

CROWN LTD. 106 - Offbeats - I Feel Fine / Love Me Girl

CROWN LTD. 107 -

CROWN LTD. 108 - Results Of Adults - Under Ground Purple / Nite Out

CROWN LTD. 109 - Spring Highland Gospel Singers - I'm Tired, My Soul Needs Rest / Oh What A Fellowship

CROWN LTD. 110 - Joe Spencer - I Remember / ?

CROWN LTD. 111 -

CROWN LTD. 112 - Eugene & The Mishaps - I'm A Man / ?

CROWN LTD. 113 - Pat & The Neurotics - I Like The Way You Do Your Things / St. James In Firmory

CROWN LTD. 114 - Blind Billy - Nothing But The Holy Ghost / More Like Jesus

CROWN LTD. 115 -

CROWN LTD. 116 - Mournin' Fogg - Seasonal Love / Big Boss Man

CROWN LTD. 117 -

CROWN LTD. 118 -

CROWN LTD. 119 - Birmingham Spirituals - New Thing Going Around / Talk About Jesus

CROWN LTD. 120 - Bobby Dobyne & The Barefacts - Hold On, I'm Coming / Soulful Sound Of Music

CROWN LTD. 121 - Dispositions - It's Gonna Be Changed / Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying

CROWN LTD. 122 - Friendly Five Quartet - Dressing Room / You've Been Blessed

Edited November 17, 2012 by Sebastian

[Alan T]

There's definately another known soul song with that backing, i think it's a male vocal also. Maybe another Hemphill or Sound Of Birmingham track.

[Benji]

If it is an unknown, then what do you think? Cheers!

Sorry, I don't like it. Mediocre and amateurish. Doesn't go anywhere. Not very talented singer and a rather dull backing. Wouldn't be surprised if this was very rare.

[Guest gordon russell]

lacking somewhat.........where would it be played?............in the toilet perhaps?

[Guest Bearsy]

Like it and think it would sound great on a loud system, great vocals

[Guest john s]

Excellent tune!

[Guest Gogs]

never heard this before but i like it.

[mshoals]

CROWN LTD. 106 - The Offbeats - I Feel Fine / Love Me Girl

CROWN LTD. 107 -

CROWN LTD. 108 - Results Of Adults - Under Ground Purple / Nite Out

CROWN LTD. 109 - Spring Highland Gospel Singers - I'm Tired, My Soul Needs Rest / Oh What A Fellowship

CROWN LTD. 110 - Joe Spencer - I Remember / ?

CROWN LTD. 111 -

CROWN LTD. 112 - Eugene & The Mishaps - I'm A Man / ?

CROWN LTD. 113 - Pat & The Neurotics - I Like The Way You Do Your Things / St. James In Firmory

CROWN LTD. 114 - Blind Billy - Nothing But The Holy Ghost / More Like Jesus

CROWN LTD. 115 -

CROWN LTD. 116 - Mournin' Fogg - Seasonal Love / Big Boss Man

CROWN LTD. 117 -

CROWN LTD. 118 -

CROWN LTD. 119 - Birmingham Spirituals - New Thing Going Around / Talk About Jesus

CROWN LTD. 120 - Bobby Dobyne & The Barefacts - Hold On, I'm Coming / Soulful Sound Of Music

Nice one, the Blind Billy 45, never heard of it before.

These early releases seem to be from 1969/1970 judging by the matrix numbers.

Here's another early gospel 45 (at least I think it fits in above, the type of crown is the same as on 106):

This was then reissued in 1983 on the label:

Here's a weird (non-music) one on the (same?) label with Charles Hickson's tale of a UFO encounter:

[Greg Belson]

That Elizabeth D. Williams looks great! Any chance of some audio?

Edited November 9, 2012 by Greg Belson

[Iancsloft]

Rare gospel northern soul ?

What's all that about its about as far away from Northern Soul music wise has well you tell me...

Blimey what next Soul Sam ordained has the Archbishop of Prestatyn lol

[Iancsloft]

Like it and think it would sound great on a loud system, great vocals

Where Bearsy in Lowton St Mary's Church on Sunday Service lol

[Sebastian]

These early releases seem to be from 1969/1970 judging by the matrix numbers.

Here's another early gospel 45 (at least I think it fits in above, the type of crown is the same as on 106):

Great stuff! I've updated the discography above with the E. Williams 45.

[mshoals]

That Elizabeth D. Williams looks great! Any chance of some audio?

Greg, these are slow gospel songs with just piano/organ behind her vocals. Don't know how to upload it here but you can send a PM if you still want to hear it.

Some Sound Of Birmingham 45s have a similar label design:

There's another with a similar label by the Chosen Sons Of God (SoB 109 - He Put Us Here / Handwork Of God), does anyone know of other SoB releases between 101-108?

[boba]

I would love to hear the UFO one

[Roburt]

Lots of negative guys wading into the thread now; don't it always happen here.

I'm still not sure that these Crown Ltd 45's date from the end of the 60's (or later). Robert Dobyne just about always wrote with Charles Edward Jones and some of their BMI registered songs were for Motown (Stone Agate: "Say You" & "Never Leave Your Baby's Side"). Charles Edward Jones seems to have been Chicago based, as was Dobyne when he was singing with the Artistics in 1963.

I'd say that "Soulful Kind of Music" was influenced by the Stax sound (Otis, S&D, etc) and as the other side of that 45 is a S&D cover, the single has to date from after April 66. But Bobby Freeman also cut the song Dobyne penned, his Loma 45 escaping around September 1966.

So to me, that would date Crown Ltd #120 as a summer 1966 release and would mean that the earlier 45's on the label are 1963/64 to 1966 efforts.

I'm sure the likes of Bob (with all his Chicago related knowledge) should be able to help out with the dating of Dobyne's efforts.

[mshoals]

So to me, that would date Crown Ltd #120 as a summer 1966 release and would mean that the earlier 45's on the label are 1963/64 to 1966 efforts.

The Dobyne 45 has SoN 78081 on the label, according to https://www.45rpmreco...=1&totalRows=56 it should then be from 1970 (or later).

[KevH]

Rare gospel northern soul ?

What's all that about its about as far away from Northern Soul music wise has well you tell me...

Blimey what next Soul Sam ordained has the Archbishop of Prestatyn lol

C'mon Ian.Sam's church is as broad as you get.I like to idea of him being an Archbishop though.Might put a bet on it.

[Sebastian]

I'm still not sure that these Crown Ltd 45's date from the end of the 60's (or later).

[...]

I'd say that "Soulful Kind of Music" was influenced by the Stax sound (Otis, S&D, etc) and as the other side of that 45 is a S&D cover, the single has to date from after April 66. But Bobby Freeman also cut the song Dobyne penned, his Loma 45 escaping around September 1966.

[...]

So to me, that would date Crown Ltd #120 as a summer 1966 release and would mean that the earlier 45's on the label are 1963/64 to 1966 efforts.

I agree, it seems a bit strange.

Perhaps the numbering is all over the place and not necessarily chronological.

I also would date the Dobyne 45 to much earlier than 1970.

The Elizabeth D. Williams 45 (#104) is called "Sleep On Doctor King, Sleep On" and I assume (?) that the lyrics refer to Martin Luther King. He was killed on April 4, 1968.

[Roburt]

The Dobyne 45 has SoN 78081 on the label, according to https://www.45rpmreco...=1&totalRows=56 it should then be from 1970 (or later).

..... AND YET there's this info on Wiki ...............

Neal Hemphill (born 1930 in Mobile was a plumber and record producer who operated the a recording studio from the basement of his Midfield plumbing shop between 1966 and 1985. Hemphill recorded tracks for numerous musicians and songwriters that went on to greater acclaim, releasing many of them on his own Sound of Birmingham, Hemphill, Black Kat and Crown Ltd labels. The studio's biggest hit was Frederick Knight's 1972 R&B ballad "I've Been Lonely for So Long", which was licensed to Stax Records.

Hemphill was born in Mobile and had tried singing professionally with the gospel group "The Commander's Quarter". In the 1960s he moved his family to Birmingham and opened a plumbing business. In 1966 he opened up a private recording studio, which he named the Sound of Birmingham, in the basement of his plumbing shop. He experimented constantly with recording equipment and techniques and, over time, developed a characteristic sound for the studio that emphasized creativity and experimentation. That sound, as well as Hemphill's liberal philosophy on paying for sessions, attracted a number of young artists.

In 1976 Hemphill suffered a heart attack and had to sell his recently-completed larger studio. Don Moseley purchased the equipment, including a 16-track mixing board Hemphill had bought from Jimi Hendrix's Electric Ladyland studio, and moved Sound of Birmingham downtown.

In the 1980's Hemphill returned to recording, opening Hemphill Studios in his old studio space next to the plumbing shop. He died in 1985.

So he started cutting his label's tracks in 1966 and gave up (initially) in 1976. Of course, the Crown Ltd 45 release's may have kicked off after 1966, so it seems that the dating is still not fully established.

If Crown Ltd #120 does date from 1970, then Dobyne's version must have gone out initially as a 'demonstration track' for other singers to consider recording the song. As Bobby Freeman cut a version in August 66, the song had to be written prior to that date with a copy of it finding its way to Bobby at Loma that summer.

[mshoals]

The booklet of the great "Birmingham Sound" CD (Rabbit Factory) pictures a promo copy of the Bobby Dobyne 45, with handwritten date August 20-69.

The matrix number on the Spring Highland Gospel Singers 45 (PRP 10861) indicates a 1969 date.

[Roburt]

I have the CD 'The Birmingham Sound -- the Soul of Neal Hemphill Vol.2' and this has photos & info on Neal Hemphill, his studio & Robert Dobyne.

I don't have the Vol.1 CD and no doubt the booklet notes for that also contain info on the releases from the city in the 60's & later.

The booklet notes I have state that Dobyne was one of the first guys to use Hemphill's studio and that he wrote songs there with Frederick Knight and cut solo stuff from the early days of the studios operation (after he had heard a radio ad put out by Hemphill asking for musicians, singers to drop by the studio).

The CD has an unissued R.D. & the Barefacts track ("Strickly Soul") as well as other 'unidentified artist' cuts on it.

By all accounts, although Hemphill was white and his shop / studio was located in a white populated 'blue collar' area of the city (where segregation hung on till the end), there was never any colour problem with the guys at the studio (everyone was welcomed the same).

You're right that the date on the promo copy of Dobyne's 45 is written as August 69, but the song must predate that by at least 3 years.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Roburt

[Chalky]

Haven't seen it mentioned or Ive missed it but R&B In dies only has one listed for the early ones....

105 Chosen Son's Of God - He Watches Over Me/How I Got Over PRP-10021/PRP10022

then the two David Sea discs, 54 Elizabeth D. Williams listed above and then

122 Friendly Five Quartet - Dressing Room/You've Been Blessed.

[Sebastian]

105 Chosen Son's Of God - He Watches Over Me/How I Got Over PRP-10021/PRP10022

122 Friendly Five Quartet - Dressing Room/You've Been Blessed.

Superb! Have updated the discog above.

[Chalky]

The booklet of the great "Birmingham Sound" CD (Rabbit Factory) pictures a promo copy of the Bobby Dobyne 45, with handwritten date August 20-69.

The matrix number on the Spring Highland Gospel Singers 45 (PRP 10861) indicates a 1969 date.

Is the booklet comprehensive? I thought I had at least one but can't find it. Now a choice of the download or the CD.

[Roburt]

The 'Birmingham Sound' CD notes are as good as it seems possible to get at this time.

Lots of the 'main guys' are no longer with us and so they have tracked down musicians, singers & family members of those involved back then and has found outt what they recall.

However, each only has a small part of the story & pulling together the 'whole picture' now seems just about impossible.

The likes of Cortez Greer (who also started off recording wise by working at the studio seemingly in the 60's) passed many years ago.

It is noted that some of the Black Kat 45's came out in 1975 but the cuts they featured had been recorded some years earlier.

[Chalky]

I'll get the CD's from John Ciba, give me something to read.

[mshoals]

Is the booklet comprehensive? I thought I had at least one but can't find it. Now a choice of the download or the CD.

The booklets are great for both volumes, both about 16 pages, with some great pictures and lots of info.

[mshoals]

Perhaps some of the Hemphill 45s account for the lower numbers in the Crown Ltd discography?

These are from 1968 and have the same crown on top of the label:

[Roburt]

Seems strange that Hemphill didn't send any of his 45's up to Billboard mag to get a bit of exposure on them (if only a listing in the new releases section of the mag).

He did seem to court deals with bigger labels (1-2-3 & stax being amongst these) ...............

[Roburt]

The above piece says that Hal Hodgens was involved with Hemphill & his studio.

Hodgens was at Birmingham radio station WVOK in 1966 and the stn was then the No.2 rated pop singles stn in the city.

As Hemphill was white, I guess Hodgens must have seemed a better bet to get 'music biz / radio influence' than hooking up with guys from the local soul radio stns (WENN, WJLD).

Hodgens had earlier been general manager of station WYAM (in Birmingham; spring 1964). This station played C&W / gospel and was just about tied as the top rated Country stn in the city that year (with Hodgens being the 2nd top rated C&W DJ on the city's radiowaves in 64).

From the above, I'd guess that some of the gospel tracks released by Hemphill were by white singers.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Roburt

[Iancsloft]

Lots of negative guys wading into the thread now; don't it always happen here.

Its the the term Rare Gospel Northern Soul I have issue with nothing else....

I think the thread on the Crown label is excellent with reply,s from very knowledgable people which is what the SS site is about people sharing knowledge sorry if I have offended anyone with my postings ,I have a great love of Gospel music which is soulful emotional music at its best especially when you hear it sang live.

Have a good weekend

Ian

[Greg Belson]

Fabulous info and discussion overnight, chaps.......most enjoyable stuff. Thanks to all of you that have contributed positively to the thread!

Edited November 9, 2012 by Greg Belson

[Guest Bearsy]

Where Bearsy in Lowton St Mary's Church on Sunday Service lol

Off to the confessional box for you Ian I may give you a parden this once lolol

[Mick Sway]

Rare gospel northern soul....I've still got to find any solid info on this 45!

I know that it's written by Marvin Griffin & produced/engineered by Neal Hemphill.....possibly performed by Marvin too. I'm aware of the Bobby Dobyne & Pat & the Neurotics sides for Crown Ltd, plus I have a few other gospels too. But I've had this record now for a while, and haven't heard mention of it anywhere else.

If it is an unknown, then what do you think? Cheers!

i think its a super tune,sounds like a live performance.

Tried to read all the thread, but didn't pick up on anything about the artist.

Sorry if I missed someone mentioning the singers origin, if not I was wondering wether there's any connection possible with Blind Billy Tate, who recorded

piano boogie in the early 50's with Peacock and Herald.

Nice thread

Mick

[mshoals]

A few more in the early Crown Ltd. series:

...

CROWN LTD. 121 -

...

121 - The Dispositions - It's Gonna Be Changed / Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying

[Greg Belson]

Just resurrecting an old thread, as I can add to the Crown Ltd. discography;

CROWN LTD. 115 - Silas Woodley - I have but one soul / Try a little Jesus

Musically, it's a slow midtempo bluesy cut, backed with a similar tempo piano led, Ray Charles sound-a-like vocal. OK disc, but nothing special IMO.

[mshoals]

There are a few more on Crown Ltd which haven't been mentioned yet over here: 45cat

[Greg Belson]

Incorrect link...please see below.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Greg Belson
Incorrect attachment.

[Spook]

12 minutes ago, Greg Belson said:

So after 10+ years of searching, I managed to find a second copy of this super elusive disc on the Crown Ltd. label.

I recently started my main room set at the Rugby Benn Hall Allnighter, and I'm now offering the very record I played that night by way of auction at Mr Manship's Rare Soul Man website.

Please check through here and consider bidding, should you fancy owning this genuinely elusive disc.

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/blind-billy-nothing-but-the-holy-ghost-more-like-jesus-crown-ltd-114

Cheers!

I cannot get this link to work goes to JM 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Spook

[Greg Belson]

So after 10+ years of searching, I managed to find a second copy of this super elusive disc on the Crown Ltd. label.

I recently started my main room set at the Rugby Benn Hall Allnighter with this 45, and I'm now offering the very record I played that night by way of auction at Mr Manship's Rare Soul Man website.

Please check through here and consider bidding, should you fancy owning this genuinely elusive disc.

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/blind-billy-nothing-but-the-holy-ghost-more-like-jesus-crown-ltd-114.html

Cheers!

Edited June 29, 2023 by Greg Belson