Street Soul And New Jack Swing Is It All Crap?

[Geeselad]

Just wondered if there's anything of listing value in this genre, could it one day be of interest to soul fans? will ever sell a big batch of this genre I've been trying to off load for an age? t seems impossible now, but plenty are on independant lables and seems relativly obscure, probably sold in limited no's to a pretty black audience in the uk. I hated the stuff at the time and remember thinking 'if only there was a house mix on this '12'!

anyone collect it? any recconmentdations, is teddy riley the new Messiah?

[jocko]

Its certainly not all rubbish, particularly the street soul. But you would have to a brave man to predict it as next biggest thing.

Particularly the US stuff, lots and lots of it at the time. like House, i suspect will not have aged well at all.

You are going to have to listen to every one to sort out the wheat from the chaff, or take it to a Manchester record shop and pray for a Northern style nostalgia trip from 40 somthing Mancunians.

[Daved]

Agree with Jock. Most swingbeat stuff was rubbish but you do get the occasional LP track which was great e.g. Jeff Redd — Love High, Keith Sweat — Make Love Last Forever.

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Keith Sweat — Make Love Last Forever.

So the term "street soul" was around during 1987 ?

Skipped this album track back then - because it sounded too Loose Ends ?

Or was this earlier sound the start of the UK Street Soul sound - which influenced the US - Daved !

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Was not Terry Gee the DJ who reignited the street soul sound and flavours years later - during Terry's Hilton Week Ender sessions ?

It sure was not predicted back then as the the second coming - as judged as another missed first passing by the masses !!!

So who know's ?

[Barry]

Used to play a lot of Street Soul on the rounds with Kev Edwards, Ray Rose, Badass etc, also quite a bit at Bradford which was well received - never got Swingbeat.

[Peter99]

I don't know ought about it. Certainly not enough to write it off as shite.

Peter

[Scotters]

Not too much of this genre appreciating in value from what I can see, apart from the odd few I've seen (eg I was surprised to see Teddy Pendergrass - "Believe in love" (phat philly mix) fetching £40+ these days + some UBP 12's seem to be on the up... although maybe not really what you're talking about here I know), but someone will hopefully prove otherwise.

Have to say if it wasn't for buying a lot of this when it was coming out in the late 80's / early 90's I might not have started looking back as hard as I did for something less polished and more soulful, if you know what I mean.

I do still enjoy the Blaze LP from that time ("25 years later", on Motown) which still sounds good to me all the way through as a flowing LP.

[Barry]

Not too much of this genre appreciating in value from what I can see, apart from the odd few I've seen (eg I was surprised to see Teddy Pendergrass - "Believe in love" (phat philly mix) fetching £40+ these days + some UBP 12's seem to be on the up... although maybe not really what you're talking about here I know), but someone will hopefully prove otherwise.

Have to say if it wasn't for buying a lot of this when it was coming out in the late 80's / early 90's I might not have started looking back as hard as I did for something less polished and more soulful, if you know what I mean.

I do still enjoy the Blaze LP from that time ("25 years later", on Motown) which still sounds good to me all the way through as a flowing LP.

There are gems out there.

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Certainly not enough to write it off as shite.

Peter

or the short lived Washington Go Go sound either, that lite these shore's earlier than "Street Soul".

.

[Daved]

So the term "street soul" was around during 1987 ?

Skipped this album track back then - because it sounded too Loose Ends ?

Or was this earlier sound the start of the UK Street Soul sound - which influenced the US - Daved !

I was actually referring to Swingbeat rather than Street Soul Nick.

Nothing wrong with Loose Ends, btw

Edited October 26, 2012 by daved

[Barry]

I was actually referring to Swingbeat rather than Street Soul Nick.

Nothing wrong with Loose Ends, btw

...and to prove it:

....sorry Nick hehe

[Roburt]

Lots of Street Soul 12"ers on indie UK labels that were only sold 'out the back of a van' in the London area feature great tracks.

Many have been played down the years on the MS scene & some are quite rare if they have been 'discovered' by the soul masses a few years after their release.

What copies were pressed up back in the day instantly went into 'upfront' club / pirate radio DJ collections with the rest going into collections of those who went to clubs where the tracks were played.

So if they 'break' on the NS / MS scene, there aren't many copies to meet that belated demand.

Not sure the numbers that most of those 12"ers were pressed up in but it must have been in the 500 or 1000 copies region.

[Barry]

Lots of Street Soul 12"ers on indie UK labels that were only sold 'out the back of a van' in the London area feature great tracks.

Many have been played down the years on the MS scene & some are quite rare if they have been 'discovered' by the soul masses a few years after their release.

What copies were pressed up back in the day instantly went into 'upfront' club / pirate radio DJ collections with the rest going into collections of those who went to clubs where the tracks were played.

So if they 'break' on the NS / MS scene, there aren't many copies to meet that belated demand.

Not sure the numbers that most of those 12"ers were pressed up in but it must have been in the 500 or 1000 copies region.

Few nice bits on Jet Star - more often than not white label with artist title stamped on it.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Barry

[Scotters]

Lots of Street Soul 12"ers on indie UK labels that were only sold 'out the back of a van' in the London area feature great tracks.

Many have been played down the years on the MS scene & some are quite rare if they have been 'discovered' by the soul masses a few years after their release.

What copies were pressed up back in the day instantly went into 'upfront' club / pirate radio DJ collections with the rest going into collections of those who went to clubs where the tracks were played.

So if they 'break' on the NS / MS scene, there aren't many copies to meet that belated demand.

Not sure the numbers that most of those 12"ers were pressed up in but it must have been in the 500 or 1000 copies region.

Hi. Can you list some examples please? Always interesting to learn what was released / what got played out and about etc. I'm at work at the mo but I'll list some of what I picked up at the time and still listen to now and then (albeit only at home as I don't know many others who also like this part of the soul spectrum!)....Off top of my head things like Xavier "Peace & Free", Noel McKoy "Family" / "Fight" etc, The Secret Diary "Friends", Gems for Jem "Time for love" & "When you're gone", Soul Family Sensation "I don't even know..." etc etc

Cheers, Steve

Edited October 26, 2012 by 71 Steve

[Geeselad]

Lots of Street Soul 12"ers on indie UK labels that were only sold 'out the back of a van' in the London area feature great tracks.

Many have been played down the years on the MS scene & some are quite rare if they have been 'discovered' by the soul masses a few years after their release.

What copies were pressed up back in the day instantly went into 'upfront' club / pirate radio DJ collections with the rest going into collections of those who went to clubs where the tracks were played.

So if they 'break' on the NS / MS scene, there aren't many copies to meet that belated demand.

Not sure the numbers that most of those 12"ers were pressed up in but it must have been in the 500 or 1000 copies region.

its the back of the van stuff I've held back, hard to work out if some of these were boots of official release though or just very inide releases.

[Derek Pearson]

There are gems out there.

I got the pun Barry - Gems ie Gems for Gem

Lots of Street Soul 12"ers on indie UK labels that were only sold 'out the back of a van' in the London area feature great tracks. Many have been played down the years on the MS scene & some are quite rare if they have been 'discovered' by the soul masses a few years after their release. What copies were pressed up back in the day instantly went into 'upfront' club / pirate radio DJ collections with the rest going into collections of those who went to clubs where the tracks were played.So if they 'break' on the NS / MS scene, there aren't many copies to meet that belated demand.

Not sure the numbers that most of those 12"ers were pressed up in but it must have been in the 500 or 1000 copies region.

Interesting thread - just let mi coffee go cold searching for summat I wrote many years ago.

Finally found it penned in February 2007.

derek x

[jocko]

Ah Mr P, the most marvelous memory for trivia as usual, and great writing as usual.

Some examples from me of great Street (ish) Soul off top of my head, need to be danced to.

Omar - Nothing Like This

Watergates - Never Gonna Give You Up

Bygraves - Set Me Free

And something by Summer (?) that I cannot remember title and nothing but google, that fits that indie part perfectly, pretty sure I bought it off the artist at a gig!

Quality music introduced to me at Bradford, the place that made my Eyes Wide Open, in so many different ways.

[Barry]

The TSR stuff was distributed by Timewarp, Bill Shannon - used to carry some nice stuff.

[Scotters]

Some examples from me of great Street (ish) Soul off top of my head, need to be danced to.

Omar - Nothing Like This

Watergates - Never Gonna Give You Up

Bygraves - Set Me Free

All superb..I was only listening through the Watergates LP "The Scandal" the other night + some of the early "Movin' on" comps that featured such releases. Also Drizabone "Conspiracy" LP still good to my ears.

A few more from me before my coffee gets cold too. Not to everyone's taste but fit in this thread I hope..

Ondrea Duverney - Obsession

Metropolis - Reach

Ola - You'd better believe

The Affair - The way we are / If only you could be mine etc

Lalomie Washburn - Try my love

Federation - Keep pushing, etc

Carleen Anderson - Mama Said (Dusky Sappho EP)

Seems strange to think most of these now 20 odd years old. Does that make them "oldies"?!

[Barry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3bhzOGgVc&feature=related

Edited October 26, 2012 by Barry

[Barry]

A Ladies section there - may do a blokes a little later.

Maybe not to everyones taste these days but I still love it simplicity.

[Scotters]

A Ladies section there - may do a blokes a little later.

Maybe not to everyones taste these days but I still love it simplicity.

Great...Have not heard some of those in a good while and one or two new to me.

Yep...Keep it going as there's at least half a dozen of us interested in this thread!

The "Summer" track mentioned earlier...It wasn't the one by Pushmipullyu on Wooly Mammoth was it? Not on youtube or anything as far as I can see, but have it here from '93 and good record at the time I think.

[Barry]

Used to know this Brummy bunch (Andy etc) quite well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKWtVFAyIUI

We used to play this stuff in a house style, mix and cut it

Edited October 26, 2012 by Barry

[Barry]

Not strictly Street Soul but about that time and used to slot in so right at the end of a Mr Smiths, from the cd

[Scotters]

I didn't know that D'Swing record but do remember this one...

Are we answering the original question yet?!

[Barry]

I didn't know that D'Swing record but do remember this one...

Are we answering the original question yet?!

Yeah, we used to put em on at a few of our gigs at the time, a genuine bunch.

[Barry]

Edited October 26, 2012 by Barry

[Barry]

...and so on

[Scotters]

Yeah, we used to put em on at a few of our gigs at the time, a genuine bunch.

They're not doing anything new these days then?

Good to see Drizabone still going...Nataya is doing a night locally here in Rushden, Northants in a few weeks, so that should be good. Actually, not sure I should have mentioned that as maybe moonlighting away from the band!

[Barry]

They're not doing anything new these days then?

Good to see Drizabone still going...Nataya is doing a night locally here in Rushden, Northants in a few weeks, so that should be good. Actually, not sure I should have mentioned that as maybe moonlighting away from the band!

No, not for years - they started dabbling with dance stuff when that got prevelant.

Yeah, got Drizabone on @ SSW next week, should be good.

[Barry]

I have a lot of I suppose Swingbeat albums as there is an awful lot of quality material on them:

[Guest Nick Harrison]

- never got Swingbeat.

And I still don't even more so now .

If that Keith Sweat track is a supposed example of "termed" swingbeat, back in it's day.

But hey ho.

Willing to learn !

[Barry]

And I still don't even more so now .

If that Keith Sweat track is a supposed example of "termed" swingbeat, back in it's day.

But hey ho.

Willing to learn !

I wasn't saying that Nick, just that a lot fo Swingbeat albums had good tracks on em

[Ian Dewhirst]

I did New Jack Swing Mastercuts as the 5th album in the Mastercuts series way back in 1991 following Classic Mix Vol 1, Classic Jazz-Funk Vols 1 & 2 and Classic Mellow Vol 1 and everyone said I was crazy as the New Jack Swing thing was 'too new' for the Mastercuts audience in their eyes and no one in the UK even knew what New Jack Swing was - even the distributor said it would ruin the series. I'd just been in L.A. on a holiday and all I heard on the radio on that trip was Bell Biv Devoe, Johnny Gill, Guy, Today etc, etc and frankly it sounded like a breath of fresh air compared to what was happening in the UK at the time which was Rave and bad House.

Anyway, New Jack Swing Mastercuts Vol 1 became the fastest-selling album in the series and entered the charts at No.8 - the highest ever placing for the whole Mastercuts series.

What I liked about New Jack Swing was that it embraced Soulful vocals at a time when the UK charts were dominated by really really crap Rave tunes with catchy riffs and samples but nothing much else.

There are some absolute masterpieces tucked away and often with different mixes to the U.S. releases. Out of 'em all, this is probably my favourite because the guy's vocals are just astounding and the song is great.....

Basic Black "Whatever It Takes" European Mix

https://youtu.be/JMLRddLGI9M

A great record is still a great record whatever the genre.....

Ian D

[Barry]

I did New Jack Swing Mastercuts as the 5th album in the Mastercuts series way back in 1991 following Classic Mix Vol 1, Classic Jazz-Funk Vols 1 & 2 and Classic Mellow Vol 1 and everyone said I was crazy as the New Jack Swing thing was 'too new' for the Mastercuts audience in their eyes and no one in the UK even knew what New Jack Swing was - even the distributor said it would ruin the series. I'd just been in L.A. on a holiday and all I heard on the radio on that trip was Bell Biv Devoe, Johnny Gill, Guy, Today etc, etc and frankly it sounded like a breath of fresh air compared to what was happening in the UK at the time which was Rave and bad House.

Anyway, New Jack Swing Mastercuts Vol 1 became the fastest-selling album in the series and entered the charts at No.8 - the highest ever placing for the whole Mastercuts series.

What I liked about New Jack Swing was that it embraced Soulful vocals at a time when the UK charts were dominated by really really crap Rave tunes with catchy riffs and samples but nothing much else.

There are some absolute masterpieces tucked away and often with different mixes to the U.S. releases. Out of 'em all, this is probably my favourite because the guy's vocals are just astounding and the song is great.....

Basic Black "Whatever It Takes" European Mix

https://youtu.be/JMLRddLGI9M

A great record is still a great record whatever the genre.....

Ian D

But you must know that it was embraced by a mainly black crowd Ian, it never really crossed over to us white ass heads..

And I don't know many great records from that genre - imo

Of course there are masterpieces tucked away in the albums, that's why we bought them but mainly non NJS style cuts.

Looking back, I enjoy the energy of the style and in context they are brilliant but they never held much sway with us 'ickle soul boys and girls did it?

[Shinehead]

I have a lot of I suppose Swingbeat albums as there is an awful lot of quality material on them:

Bought loads of albums of this sort in the eighties , Alyson Williams,Tashan,By all Means etc. just regarded em as contempary soul and just wished that real musicians had been used even though i still like some of em .

[Barry]

Bought loads of albums of this sort in the eighties , Alyson Williams,Tashan,By all Means etc. just regarded em as contempary soul and just wished that real musicians had been used even though i still like some of em .

[Barry]

probably sold in limited no's to a pretty black audience in the uk.

Well, there's the point - they were bought in equal numbers by black and white kids, maybe more white kids in our shop - this was the time just before the R&B thing really hit and divided clubs (scared the white kids off) - it was a fantastic time in Club Soul history where there was a very equal mixture of black and white people involved in club families...it all went tits up mid 90's.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Barry

[Shinehead]

One of my faves of the era

Edited October 26, 2012 by shinehead

[Roburt]

New Jack Swing was big at the Southport Weekenders for a couple of years .....

... and loads of white punters were dancing to it there.

[Scotters]

Great...Not seen that Chuck Stanley LP cover for a few years! If this is moving away from the NJS and Street Soul topic and more to contemporary soul then we could be a here a long time as I think there was a lot of quality about...Sounds of Blackness, Broomfield (Don't cover up your feelings etc LP), all Tashan LP's, even Najee to a degree! Anita Baker, Atlantic Starr, By All Means, heaps of stuff from Expansion etc, Kashif, Juicy (After loving you / private party etc), Maze.

It's certainly the time I started buying records regularly in late teens and actually listening more. A good foundation to then discover the rest of the soul spectrum methinks

[Ian Dewhirst]

But you must know that it was embraced by a mainly black crowd Ian, it never really crossed over to us white ass heads..

And I don't know many great records from that genre - imo

Of course there are masterpieces tucked away in the albums, that's why we bought them but mainly non NJS style cuts.

Looking back, I enjoy the energy of the style and in context they are brilliant but they never held much sway with us 'ickle soul boys and girls did it?

True. Can't argue with that Barry. I deliberately did the New Jack Swing Mastercuts releases because I wanted to embrace all genres of music within the albums and not typecast too much so the series would appeal to multiple audiences.

Following the doom and gloom about how I'd wrecked the series with the 5th release, I remember going down to HMV in Croydon on the Saturday afternoon at the end of the first week of release and seeing the HMV staff constantly re-filling the shelf every 10 minutes and a constant stream of mainly young black people grabbing 'em and going to the counter. I started breathing a bit easier once I'd seen that LOL. Also interesting is that New Jack Swing Mastercuts was the first compilation to ever license an R. Kelly track, so we were way ahead of the curve in many respects.

Anyway, great thread. It's making me play other stuff from the era that still sounds great to me now.....

Ralph Tresvant "Sensitivity"

https://youtu.be/6AuslO9f2sE

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Off top of my head things like Xavier "Peace & Free", Noel McKoy "Family" / "Fight" etc, The Secret Diary "Friends", Gems for Jem "Time for love" & "When you're gone", Soul Family Sensation "I don't even know..." etc etc

Cheers, Steve

"Peace & Free" by Xavier feat 4 Real was a fantastic record. I put this out when we launched the Streethype label in the early 90's. It sold about 2 copies LOL. But what a brilliant record.......

Xavier feat 4 Real "Peace & Free"

https://youtu.be/V35AmtpyuU8

Ian D

[Shinehead]

Enjoying this thread , this it what Soul Source is all about for me spreading the word and music , i,ll be digging some eighties stuff out tomorrow .

[Guest john s]

I played masses of this stuff at the time - I was running a couple of club nights in Bristol then, one focusing on the 'acid jazz' side of things, where we had Omar, Martine Girault, Brand New Heavies, Chapter and the Verse playing live - as well as Roy Ayers, Hank Crawford and loads of 'old jazzers'; The other night was in the function room of a St. Pauls pub, big system, very mixed crowd, and a playlist of hip hop, dancehall reggae, some 70's funk, 80's boogie, and then-current soul - from the UK, US and anywhere else we could find...

Always used to love this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2ikkVTqDl4&feature=related

Courtney Buchanan 'R U Conscious'

[Ian Dewhirst]

Enjoying this thread , this it what Soul Source is all about for me spreading the word and music , i,ll be digging some eighties stuff out tomorrow .

It's a much maligned decade that has a horrible rep. However, I sell TONS of 80's stuff mainly to other countries so the 80's is popular internationally. So I have to listen to what people want and every so often a fantastic gem leaps out....

Leonard Lidell "Keep It Secret"

Ian D

Edited October 26, 2012 by Ian Dewhirst

[Barry]

New Jack Swing was big at the Southport Weekenders for a couple of years .....

... and loads of white punters were dancing to it there.

When Roburt?

Name me a couple of tunes that white punters where dancing to, so I know that we are both on the same page.

I didn't miss many SPs.

[Barry]

True. Can't argue with that Barry. I deliberately did the New Jack Swing Mastercuts releases because I wanted to embrace all genres of music within the albums and not typecast too much so the series would appeal to multiple audiences.

Following the doom and gloom about how I'd wrecked the series with the 5th release, I remember going down to HMV in Croydon on the Saturday afternoon at the end of the first week of release and seeing the HMV staff constantly re-filling the shelf every 10 minutes and a constant stream of mainly young black people grabbing 'em and going to the counter. I started breathing a bit easier once I'd seen that LOL. Also interesting is that New Jack Swing Mastercuts was the first compilation to ever license an R. Kelly track, so we were way ahead of the curve in many respects.

Anyway, great thread. It's making me play other stuff from the era that still sounds great to me now.....

Ralph Tresvant "Sensitivity

Ian D

I spent years playing to majoritively black crowds on one scene and majoritively white crowds on other scenes and have seen the change in the club scene, not for the better.

[Roger Williams]

One of my faves of the era

I wouldn't class this album as New Jack Swing to be honest, or the Tashan album either, the Def Jam stuff (in my view) was more soul/hip-hop oriented. Great album the Chuck Stanley though, especially Real Soon which you posted. This is the type of LP which I bought by the hundreds throughout the 80s, not being a scene person back then, simply somebody who just bought soul music. I've got literally hundreds of New Jack Swing CDs though, many bought 'blind' for peanuts on ebay within the last 6 or 7 years because although a lot of it wasn't that good, the harsh productions and kiddy lyrics and such, in amongst all of that on most of the albums are some serious quality ballads, which makes each one a couple of quid well spent in my book.

Yes, good to see a thread like this on here, definitely.

Roger