Philadelphia International

[Billy Freemantle]

I know its said above but this thread really does highlight the northern scene's obsession with rarity over quality. Who cares if some Philly releases were played in seventies youth clubs? Who cares if some of their releases were popular in the discos of the time? Does it really matter? Gamble and Huff, in my opinion at least, pulled off the rare trick of producing a sound that was commercially successful AND credibly soulful - the two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

If you enjoy seventies soul and you're not hung up on rarity or any of that cobblers, then there are loads of great sounds waiting for you on the Philadelphia International label/s. Its probably best that the northern scene ignores this sound anyway, look what happened to the price of Party Time Man once it was 'discovered'.Do you really want that to happen to Bad Luck or The More I Get?!

Cheers

Edited January 17, 2006 by Billy Freemantle

[Guest]

It's very commercial sounding soul and it was made that way purposely, so where exactly does this fit into the northern soul scene's values? Most of Philly Int is soul-pop music and of little interest to the majority. IMO.

Personally i'd rather hear "Philly Int - soul pop" as you put it than some of the horrendous "Pop- Northern" that has permeated the scene over the years. Not to mention some of the "Hillbilly-R'n'B" that is mysteriously popular with some these days.

Derek

[Girthdevon]

Alright, on my right I've got a pile of ten singles on Thelma, on my left I've got a pile of ten singles on Philly Int. Which one do you choose? If it's the one on the left, you are in the wrong place. The mainstream soul forum is elsewhere.

I'll have the Philly singles

Chars !!!

[SteveM]

Personally i'd rather hear "Philly Int - soul pop" as you put it than some of the horrendous "Pop- Northern" that has permeated the scene over the years. Not to mention some of the "Hillbilly-R'n'B" that is mysteriously popular with some these days.

Derek

Not just cowboy music, but shit m.o.r. music from the sixties.

[SteveM]

I'll have the Philly singles

Chars !!!

Can't reply to Billys post, and I realise it was more of a question than a statement, but plenty of Northern working class youth weren't into NS, and presumably some of them bought Philly records.

I know where PeteS is coming from, he's made the distinction between soul/northern soul many times on here before. What I don't understand, is why the same criteria isn't applied to shite like Dean Barlow and others. Why is that NS, but some PI or other 70's sounds can't be ?

Edited January 18, 2006 by SteveM

[leev]

In hindsight then, maybe this Philly stuff is acceptable, despite it being chart fodder and top of the pops material which 30 years ago you would have all disowned and slagged off anyone who liked it.

In context: pleasant soul music, in northern soul context, waste of good vinyl

30 years ago i was sixteen, attending nighters and loved philly stuff too, some of us had open ears and minds even then pete.

i was happy to stomp away to something like a major lance track and still have a place in my heart for teddy p.

motown /philly track, i seem to recall both versions of don't leave me this way being massive circa 76.

and this pathetic childish constant reference to anything the post 69 luddites don't approve of as D.I.S.C.O.

is fecking boring.

just snapped up alxander patten - a lil' lovin sometimes, and arnold blair - trying to get next to you, so i'm still obviously schitzophrenic

[Daved]

It's not even necessarily chart fodder. Although some charted (O'Jays, Three Degrees, harold Melvin, the dreaded McFadden & Whitehead for example), most of it didn't. Not in the UK anyway. Jean Carne, The Futures, Jones Girls and lots of stuff by well known artists never touched the charts.

[Pete S]

It's not even necessarily chart fodder. Although some charted (O'Jays, Three Degrees, harold Melvin, the dreaded McFadden & Whitehead for example), most of it didn't. Not in the UK anyway. Jean Carne, The Futures, Jones Girls and lots of stuff by well known artists never touched the charts.

...probably because it was a tired and worn out formula by then

[Sweeney]

Pete Smith makes an interesting point about Northern Soul and its positioning as an alternative to perceived mainstream music in the 70s.

I guess for a lot of people on this board who have a similar background on the scene (atttended Wigan and/or the Mecca etc.) there is still a sharp dividing line between the traditional 60s sounds which were no longer being made (and therefore unlikely to ever find favour with a more mainstream audience) and the new releases being played, which to a lot of ears sounded suspiciously like the contemporary chart sounds of the time, especially as quite a few records of that type were played on the more underground scene first before "crossing over" to more mainstream audiences.

For those of us who came to the scene post-Wigan and Mecca in the 1980s, it wasn't necessarily so clearly defined. Venues like Stafford were possibly a reaction to both the "Old School" Northern scene which by many accounts had lost its way and the more mainstream divvy discos that I hated going to as a youth.

Other forum members may have different experiences, but essentially London was pretty much a Northern Soul backwater at the beginning of the Eighties. We were pretty happy to attend anything that sounded like there was a possibility of Rare Soul being played! There wasn't a vast choice of places to attend within a relatively small geographic area like I imagine there was "Up North".

This obviously shapes your view of the scene as a whole - it was only later that you become aware of the history of the scene pre-1982 and the factionalism that was and (I'm afraid to say) is so prevalent on the scene even today.

I remember going to the 100 Club Allnighters and hearing everything from records made in the early 60s to new releases - the defining principle being quality (rarity was obviously important as well!). To this day I just love SOUL music, I'm not that bothered when it was made, how much it costs or who made it (although like many others here my preference is for Black America).

So in answer to the question: A pile of PIR or a pile of Thelma? - A selection of both to include both "I'm Lonely" and everything the sublime Martha ever did plus "The Love I Lost" and other fantastic gems from a label that largely defined the sound of a new Soul sensibility in the same way Motown did to Soul Music in the 60s.

Add these to the best that a diverse and fantastic scene has to offer us - and no bloody white Pop Stompers!

[Pete S]

Add these to the best that a diverse and fantastic scene has to offer us - and no bloody white Pop Stompers!

Again it comes down to personal taste: I'd take Tears Of Joy or I'll Hold You over any of these Philly records.

[Guest]

Oh Peter, do behave.

[Pete S]

Oh Peter, do behave.

I don't think you are taking my opinions very seriously Mr White :angry:

[Guest Baz]

You Choose........

>>>>>Solid northern 60's dancer<<<<<

Or

>>>>>>Medioca 70's Disco<<<<<

[Supercorsa]

Baz if that's mediocre, why do want £50 for it?

[Guest Baz]

Baz if that's mediocre, why do want £50 for it?

Even bad disco has a price

I think Frank Wilson is a shite pop record dont mean im gonna give it away if i was to find one

Edited January 18, 2006 by Baz

[Sebastian]

Baz said:

 

Are you serious?

[Guest Baz]

Are you serious?

About what

[Guest Netspeaky]

I was just listening to that Angie Stone track in the gallery, which has obviously just lifted the music from The O'Jays - Backstabbers.

This got me to thinking, why don't you ever seem to hear any stuff from the Philadelphia International label played out anywhere? I can only ever remember hearing one Philly track played at an event that I've attended. This was back in the mid to late 80's, at The Old Schoolhouse in Woking, I'm sure it was Love Train by The O'Jays.

Has anyone got any thoughts on the matter?

Where have you been hiding, loads of Philly Int tracks being played and have been played on the scene for years.

[Stevesilktulip]

Kept it to one record per artist, which actually makes it even more impossible.

OJAYS: Impossible. LOVING YOU, which got me to London in 87 for one of the best gigs I've ever seen.

HAROLD MELVIN: Impossible. WAKE UP EVERYBODY.

INTRUDERS: I'LL ALWAYS LOVE MY MAMA.

ARCHIE BELL: DON'T LET LOVE GET YOU DOWN.

SILK: CAN'T STOP TURNING YOU ON.

PHILADELPHIA ALL-STARS: LET'S CLEAN UP THE GHETTO.

ANTHONY WHITE: STOP AND THINK IT OVER. A nostril ahead of the non-album single.

TEDDY: Impossible. EASY, EASY, GOT TO TAKE IT EASY.

BILLY PAUL: LET EM IN. Never thought I'd put a song written by a Beatle in any list other than most over-rated. Billy, MFSB and some inspirational oratory from MLK make this a masterpiece.

JEAN CARN: Tricky. MY LOVE DON'T COME EASY incl. intro.