So! You're Into Soul Music

[Barry]

...does this mean that you see white vocalists inferior at their art?

(Devils Advocate)

[Mike Lofthouse]

Absolutely not - but I actually prefer white singers practicing their art and not trying to sound black. And I do buy an awful lot of it!

Edited October 5, 2012 by Mike Lofthouse

[John Reed]

Nope and just to list a few great white soul singers

Johnny Daye, George Soule, Dan Penn, Eddie Hinton, Len Wade and there are many more.

[Guest gordon russell]

Not a bit of it!!as long as they are just that, soul singers!........however people trying to convince me white pop records are good soul......l ain,t having it

Edited October 5, 2012 by gordon russell

[Ged Parker]

No.

Just like I don't think Dali was bad at his art because I prefer Monet.

I like soul as a genre I think Linda Jones was a better soul singer than Aretha Franklin but I think that 'Respect' is better than 'Hypnotised'.

It about so much more than skin colour.

[jocko]

...does this mean that you see white vocalists inferior at their art?

(Devils Advocate)

Yes.

Double devils advocate and actually a statement that needs much more breaking down, however of to play golf so will see where this has got to when I return.....

[Mike Lofthouse]

I think Linda Jones was a better soul singer than Aretha Franklin but I think that 'Respect' is better than 'Hypnotised'.

What ? Respect by Aretha murders Otis' original!!!

[Guest Nick Harrison]

As a rule the pure soul traditionalist's will accept only black american vocalist's and groups, a little sad when many white musicians were involved, playing strings and brass which helped creating the sound we enjoy.

[Soulman]

Yes.

Double devils advocate and actually a statement that needs much more breaking down, however of to play golf so will see where this has got to when I return.....

You play golf and you think you have a say on blue eyed soul..... surely not

[Ged Parker]

What ? Respect by Aretha murders Otis' original!!!

I was comparing Respect by Aretha to Hypnotised by Linda. Doesn't matter that Linda is the better singer Aretha's peformance is the better of the two.

Just illustrating its complex.

[Guest Nick Harrison]

And as a pecking order - I would further add a white america soul vocalist would demand a greater respect, rather than a british or european white soul artist, once identified during the "early years".

And later this was also very evident with the Brit - Funk bands and there lack of acceptance by UK white nationals, who's scene was also feed and educated on a black music only ethos.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Nick Harrison

[Jbs]

i dont give a f---- what colour an artist is its the sound what comes out of the vinyl what does it for me

[Ged Parker]

Not sure where soul music in general would have been without the teaming up Wallace Daniel Pennington and Dewey "Spooner" Oldham.

[Guest gordon russell]

No.

Just like I don't think Dali was bad at his art because I prefer Monet.

I like soul as a genre I think Linda Jones was a better soul singer than Aretha Franklin but I think that 'Respect' is better than 'Hypnotised'.

It about so much more than skin colour.

would you not agree though.....black singers have generally got a different voice in the main they seem to be able to sing with so much ease......so although it,s nowt to do with skin colour......for those of us tuned into soul music......just hearing sammy cambell belt out "job opening" or ty karim with her silky smooth style if you were blind you'd know a soul singer instantly

[Ged Parker]

would you not agree though.....black singers have generally got a different voice in the main they seem to be able to sing with so much ease......so although it,s nowt to do with skin colour......for those of us tuned into soul music......just hearing sammy cambell belt out "job opening" or ty karim with her silky smooth style if you were blind you'd know a soul singer instantly

Yes I agree you're right and its what I like.

That doesn't mean white vocalists are inferior it just means I generally prefer black vocalists. There's been many more black vocalists turning out soul over the years than white ones.

[Guest gordon russell]

Yes I agree you're right and its what I like.

That doesn't mean white vocalists are inferior it just means I generally prefer black vocalists. There's been many more black vocalists turning out soul over the years than white ones.

agreed.........they are not inferior,just different which means generally they are better suited to singing other types of music.....COUNTRY & WESTERN ...and FOLK :lol:

[Guest manusf3a]

I like Southside Johhny ,hes white but can belt out a soulful song as well as sing other genres,but it was his "soul ful vocals",that got me into listening to his stuff.Hes done more than a few covers as well of some of his own stuff.I wont say for example in any way hes better on his version of "Dont walk away renee",than the original but imo his voice does have its own original"soulful",thing.Certainly there is that certain tone ,sound etc from a black voice that just cries out soul but if soul is a feeling filling and overfowing to spilling out from the voice then some white singers do imo "have it".Not many grant you,but there are some.

[Guest gordon russell]

I like Southside Johhny ,hes white but can belt out a soulful song as well as sing other genres,but it was his "soul ful vocals",that got me into listening to his stuff.Hes done more than a few covers as well of some of his own stuff.I wont say for example in any way hes better on his version of "Dont walk away renee",than the original but imo his voice does have its own original"soulful",thing.Certainly there is that certain tone ,sound etc from a black voice that just cries out soul but if soul is a feeling filling and overfowing to spilling out from the voice then some white singers do imo "have it".Not many grant you,but there are some.

HELLO MATE......southside jonny and the asbury dukes.......didn,t ian clarke play one by them at yate.....pretty good tune if l remember tezza

[Mister Fish]

There are lots of really good white soul singers now. just look at xfactor.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Mister Fish

[Garethx]

I like Southside Johhny ,hes white but can belt out a soulful song as well as sing other genres,but it was his "soul ful vocals",that got me into listening to his stuff.Hes done more than a few covers as well of some of his own stuff.I wont say for example in any way hes better on his version of "Dont walk away renee",than the original but imo his voice does have its own original"soulful",thing.Certainly there is that certain tone ,sound etc from a black voice that just cries out soul but if soul is a feeling filling and overfowing to spilling out from the voice then some white singers do imo "have it".Not many grant you,but there are some.

The original of "Walk Away Renee" is by The Left Banke on Smash. The 4 Tops record is a cover version from two years later.

[Modernsoulsucks]

Half the time I never quite get what Barry is getting at.

At the risk of going off at a tangent I seem to have developed a new preoccupation recently on attending a few venues.

Can a dj get through a spot only playing what I consider to be soul music. And the answer appears to be no.

Obviously entirely subjective and probably down to my changing taste as to what constitutes good Northern.

After 40+ years of records to choose from I do feel that yes inferior white stuff still makes an appearance.

ROD

[Guest manusf3a]

HELLO MATE......southside jonny and the asbury dukes.......didn,t ian clarke play one by them at yate.....pretty good tune if l remember tezza

Yeh thats right there was also one played so I believe back at the Leeds central days.The LLeeds one was called "I played the fool",covered up as something or other. Edited October 5, 2012 by manusf3a

[Garethx]

This topic often opens a huge can of worms. Do you have to be an African American to sing Soul Music? I might once have said 'Yes' but my position has shifted somewhat over the years.

I think the very best soul music has its roots in the black gospel tradition and the very best soul singers have this deeply ingrained in them: OV Wright, Otis Clay, Candi Staton, Judy Clay, Wilson Pickett and so on. Beneath that elite group there was a wide range in ability though. Many of the soul records of the classic era were made by amateur singers. Some were fabulous vocalists who for a whole host of reasons never got the breaks, but a great many performed deservedly in obscurity.

As John says above there were a number of white singers who could make more than a decent fist of 'authentic' soul music: Eddie Hinton and Dan Penn are obvious and stellar examples. These guys also wrote and played on some of the truly defining records of the soul era. They weren't playing at it: they really lived it. Were they as good as the black vocalists who were their heroes? The jury's out. What I do know is that I prefer Penn's original version of "I'm Your Puppet" to any of the covers and Eddie Hinton's "Dreamer" is better by him than even a great vocalist like Patti LaBelle who also attempted the song. These two examples may have more to do with preferring the songwriter's own interpretation of their own material than anything else though.

I suppose one of the most important things to establish in these debates is a frame of reference for 'Blue Eyed' or 'White Soul'. The American music journalist Dan Hodges approached a definition in this way:

"I'm unwilling to call something "Ëœwhite soul' that wasn't recorded during the historical period of soul music. Whatever else, for example, the Beastie Boys may be, I don't consider them blue-eyed soul."Â

What he called his two compelling criteria were:

"One... that the white singer and song should "Ëœfit' with what we recognize as soul music already. It would mean that, for example, the white soul singer was recorded by a record company that released soul records and that the records were made as they would have been with a black singer."Â

"Two... that the white singer's performances should be accepted as soul music since they would be so accepted if sung by blacks [italics added]... and [that] if a black singer recorded the song, it would be considered soul. In contrast, whether a white group or the Supremes made an album of Rodgers & Hart show tunes, it wasn't soul music."Â

These definitions help with such questions the wider world of Soul. Then there is the case of the Northern Soul record. I suppose a lot of answers to this topic will centre on the ethnic or racial identity of artists who came to have records played on the UK Northern scene. That's where all such distinctions go out the window from my personal perspective.

For me today and in Northern Soul terms the ethnic identity of the singer matters less than the overall feel or flavour of the record. Of course it's great when a Northern record has a piledriver of a soulful vocal like an Eddie Parker or a Jock Mitchell, but conversely it can work just as well with the vocal approach of, for example, Ronnie & Robyn.

In terms of Barry's original question although I love soul music deeply I think I can also appreciate a great singer regardless of their race. Outside of soul I love certain Sinatra records, think Elvis was a phenomenal singer, am astounded by the quality of Peggy Lee as an interpreter of songs, am a huge fan of Brian Wilson, Laura Nyro and so on and so on. None of those named singers were 'inferior' to anyone. In terms of their artistry they were without peer.

Edited October 5, 2012 by garethx

[Jaco]

This topic often opens a huge can of worms. Do you have to be an African American to sing Soul Music? I might once have said 'Yes' but my position has shifted somewhat over the years.

I think the very best soul music has its roots in the black gospel tradition and the very best soul singers have this deeply ingrained in them: OV Wright, Otis Clay, Candi Staton, Judy Clay, Wilson Pickett and so on. Beneath that elite group there was a wide range in ability though. Many of the soul records of the classic era were made by amateur singers. Some were fabulous vocalists who for a whole host of reasons never got the breaks, but a great many performed deservedly in obscurity.

As John says above there were a number of white singers who could make more than a decent fist of 'authentic' soul music: Eddie Hinton and Dan Penn are obvious and stellar examples. These guys also wrote and played on some of the truly defining records of the soul era. They weren't playing at it: they really lived it. Were they as good as the black vocalists who were their heroes? The jury's out. What I do know is that I prefer Penn's original version of "I'm Your Puppet" to any of the covers and Eddie Hinton's "Dreamer" is better by him than even a great vocalist like Patti LaBelle who also attempted the song. These two examples may have more to do with preferring the songwriter's own interpretation of their own material than anything else though.

I suppose one of the most important things to establish in these debates is a frame of reference for 'Blue Eyed' or 'White Soul'. The American music journalist Dan Hodges approached a definition in this way:

"I'm unwilling to call something "Ëœwhite soul' that wasn't recorded during the historical period of soul music. Whatever else, for example, the Beastie Boys may be, I don't consider them blue-eyed soul."Â

What he called his two compelling criteria were:

"One... that the white singer and song should "Ëœfit' with what we recognize as soul music already. It would mean that, for example, the white soul singer was recorded by a record company that released soul records and that the records were made as they would have been with a black singer."Â

"Two... that the white singer's performances should be accepted as soul music since they would be so accepted if sung by blacks [italics added]... and [that] if a black singer recorded the song, it would be considered soul. In contrast, whether a white group or the Supremes made an album of Rodgers & Hart show tunes, it wasn't soul music."Â

These definitions help with such questions the wider world of Soul. Then there is the case of the Northern Soul record. I suppose a lot of answers to this topic will centre on the ethnic or racial identity of artists who came to have records played on the UK Northern scene. That's where all such distinctions go out the window from my personal perspective.

For me today and in Northern Soul terms the ethnic identity of the singer matters less than the overall feel or flavour of the record. Of course it's great when a Northern record has a piledriver of a soulful vocal like an Eddie Parker or a Jock Mitchell, but conversely it can work just as well with the vocal approach of, for example, Ronnie & Robyn.

In terms of Barry's original question although I love soul music deeply I think I can also appreciate a great singer regardless of their race. Outside of soul I love certain Sinatra records, think Elvis was a phenomenal singer, am astounded by the quality of Peggy Lee as an interpreter of songs, am a huge fan of Brian Wilson, Laura Nyro and so on and so on. None of those named singers were 'inferior' to anyone. In terms of their artistry they were without peer.

Beautifully crafted analysis - as always, Garath.

[Guest nubes]

Brown eyed rock...Blue eyed soul?....if one feels the genre...and can produce...why should skin colour be a barrier..who is to say what is what..am very interested... ..Delxxxx

[Mike Lofthouse]

Either me or the rest of you have got the wrong end of the stick here I didn't think Barry's topic was 'can white singers 'sing' Soul' rather although your preference was for Soul music - can you still appreciate whites singers and their 'art' whatever they are singing.

Hank Williams is a wonderful Country singer - Eddie Hinton is a wonderful Soul singer.

Mike

[Guest gordon russell]

Either me or the rest of you have got the wrong end of the stick here I didn't think Barry's topic was 'can white singers 'sing' Soul' rather although your preference was for Soul music - can you still appreciate whites singers and their 'art' whatever they are singing.

Hank Williams is a wonderful Country singer - Eddie Hinton is a wonderful Soul singer.

Mike

in that context..........NO

[Guest gordon russell]

Yeh thats right there was also one played so I believe back at the Leeds central days.The LLeeds one was called "I played the fool",covered up as something or other.

SAME TUNE

[Garethx]

Either me or the rest of you have got the wrong end of the stick here I didn't think Barry's topic was 'can white singers 'sing' Soul' rather although your preference was for Soul music - can you still appreciate whites singers and their 'art' whatever they are singing.

Hank Williams is a wonderful Country singer - Eddie Hinton is a wonderful Soul singer.

Mike

I don't think there would be anyone who uses the site who couldn't agree with the particular proposition as you interpret it above Mike.

[Guest manusf3a]

The original of "Walk Away Renee" is by The Left Banke on Smash. The 4 Tops record is a cover version from two years later.

But its the four tops one I am comparing southside johnny to interesting of you to let me know this fact of who done it first .

[Mike Lofthouse]

I don't think there would be anyone who uses the site who couldn't agree with the particular proposition as you interpret it above Mike.

I'm not so sure about that Gareth - I've played records to ardent Soul fans and when I mention it was written by Dylan or sung by Captain Beefheart say - you can hear the tumbleweed. Mike

[Guest gordon russell]

This topic often opens a huge can of worms. Do you have to be an African American to sing Soul Music? I might once have said 'Yes' but my position has shifted somewhat over the years.

I think the very best soul music has its roots in the black gospel tradition and the very best soul singers have this deeply ingrained in them: OV Wright, Otis Clay, Candi Staton, Judy Clay, Wilson Pickett and so on. Beneath that elite group there was a wide range in ability though. Many of the soul records of the classic era were made by amateur singers. Some were fabulous vocalists who for a whole host of reasons never got the breaks, but a great many performed deservedly in obscurity.

As John says above there were a number of white singers who could make more than a decent fist of 'authentic' soul music: Eddie Hinton and Dan Penn are obvious and stellar examples. These guys also wrote and played on some of the truly defining records of the soul era. They weren't playing at it: they really lived it. Were they as good as the black vocalists who were their heroes? The jury's out. What I do know is that I prefer Penn's original version of "I'm Your Puppet" to any of the covers and Eddie Hinton's "Dreamer" is better by him than even a great vocalist like Patti LaBelle who also attempted the song. These two examples may have more to do with preferring the songwriter's own interpretation of their own material than anything else though.

I suppose one of the most important things to establish in these debates is a frame of reference for 'Blue Eyed' or 'White Soul'. The American music journalist Dan Hodges approached a definition in this way:

"I'm unwilling to call something "Ëœwhite soul' that wasn't recorded during the historical period of soul music. Whatever else, for example, the Beastie Boys may be, I don't consider them blue-eyed soul."Â

What he called his two compelling criteria were:

"One... that the white singer and song should "Ëœfit' with what we recognize as soul music already. It would mean that, for example, the white soul singer was recorded by a record company that released soul records and that the records were made as they would have been with a black singer."Â

"Two... that the white singer's performances should be accepted as soul music since they would be so accepted if sung by blacks [italics added]... and [that] if a black singer recorded the song, it would be considered soul. In contrast, whether a white group or the Supremes made an album of Rodgers & Hart show tunes, it wasn't soul music."Â

These definitions help with such questions the wider world of Soul. Then there is the case of the Northern Soul record. I suppose a lot of answers to this topic will centre on the ethnic or racial identity of artists who came to have records played on the UK Northern scene. That's where all such distinctions go out the window from my personal perspective.

For me today and in Northern Soul terms the ethnic identity of the singer matters less than the overall feel or flavour of the record. Of course it's great when a Northern record has a piledriver of a soulful vocal like an Eddie Parker or a Jock Mitchell, but conversely it can work just as well with the vocal approach of, for example, Ronnie & Robyn.

In terms of Barry's original question although I love soul music deeply I think I can also appreciate a great singer regardless of their race. Outside of soul I love certain Sinatra records, think Elvis was a phenomenal singer, am astounded by the quality of Peggy Lee as an interpreter of songs, am a huge fan of Brian Wilson, Laura Nyro and so on and so on. None of those named singers were 'inferior' to anyone. In terms of their artistry they were without peer.

Gareth .....good answer.......theres the point if the singer is white and sings soul music....cause thats what they do...then great,but if they're white and sing in a soul style because it,s the fashion..........wrong whatever era

[Garethx]

I've had another think about this and will say that the problem or issue white singers faced when trying to 'sing soul' was in many ways the same problem later black vocalists themselves faced.

When I asked whether Dan Penn or Eddie Hinton were as good as their heroes it must be borne in mind their heroes were singers like Bobby Bland, Sam Cooke, Little Willie John, Ray Charles, Jerry Butler and Joe Tex. The original template was so good that the bar for what became 'the soul era' was set very high. These named vocalists were stylists who were often slavishly copied, by black and white vocalists alike.

Another thing to bear in mind is that Blue Eyed Soul came in as many regional or stylistic flavours as Soul itself. At least one strand of it that I can think of was probably best done by white groups or singers: the Gold Star sound of Hollywood as practiced by The Righteous Brothers, Jerry Ganey and so on. In that case the records lose a little something in the sound's iteration by black vocalists like Bobby Sheen, Billy Storm or Joe Phillips. Just my opinion though.

Edited October 5, 2012 by garethx

[Kev Cane]

As a rule the pure soul traditionalist's will accept only black american vocalist's and groups, a little sad when many white musicians were involved, playing strings and brass which helped creating the sound we enjoy.

Look no further than the great Bobby Womack set "Home is where the heart is" the whole album recorded at Muscle Shoals, place of many many incredible soul sessions, all of the musicians, rythmn and horn sections are white, I picked this particular set because apart from Womack being on top form (enough for any genuine soul fan surely) the backing is nothing short of breathtaking.

Kev

[Garethx]

Soul music can be very immersive and can breed insularity, although I'm not using 'insularity' in a pejorative way. For the best part of twenty years I didn't really listen to anything else in a serious way outside of the odd jazz record, so can understand that position.

Also another thing to bear in mind is the notion that many people got into the soul scene (and soul music itself, although the two things are by no means the exact same thing) as an exact antidote to Pop Music and mainstream music industry marketing and other aspects of mainstream popular culture.

I used to think I was immune to aspects of that world while still listening to contemporary black music until realising that too was a machine in exactly the same mould as the 'white' or 'pop' music business.

Edited October 5, 2012 by garethx

[nickp]

Soul music can be very immersive and can breed insularity, although I'm not using 'insularity' in a pejorative way. For the best part of twenty years I didn't really listen to anything else in a serious way outside of the odd jazz record, so can understand that position.

Also another thing to bear in mind is the notion that many people got into the soul scene (and soul music itself, although the two things are by no means the exact same thing) as an exact antidote to Pop Music and mainstream music industry marketing and other aspects of mainstream popular culture.

I used to think I was immune to aspects of that world while still listening to contemporary black music until realising that too was a machine in exactly the same mould as the 'white' or 'pop' music business.

Superb quote I must say.

From my own perspective I actually embraced all the genres of 'music which had that feeling.

For anyone who has missed out on this piece of white/blue eyed soul/r 'n b genius.... sit back and relax

https://youtu.be/qK59nhh1tcg

Edited October 5, 2012 by nickp

[Guest brummiemick]

Soul music can be very immersive and can breed insularity, although I'm not using 'insularity' in a pejorative way. For the best part of twenty years I didn't really listen to anything else in a serious way outside of the odd jazz record, so can understand that position.

Also another thing to bear in mind is the notion that many people got into the soul scene (and soul music itself, although the two things are by no means the exact same thing) as an exact antidote to Pop Music and mainstream music industry marketing and other aspects of mainstream popular culture.

I used to think I was immune to aspects of that world while still listening to contemporary black music until realising that too was a machine in exactly the same mould as the 'white' or 'pop' music business.

One of the most insightful statements I have ever read on Soul Source!

[Guest manusf3a]

Superb quote I must say.

From my own perspective I actually embraced all the genres of 'music which had that feeling.

For anyone who has missed out on this piece of white/blue eyed soul/r 'n b genius.... sit back and relax

https://youtu.be/qK59nhh1tcg

Like so many others heavily influenced by Black Blues artists,the black blues guitarists especially put such a big stamp on the great rock bands, the influence was enormous as was those same artists vocals .You can hear the influence of the three kings magic gutar work everywhere in music. Bb,Freddie and Albert were three of the greats whose guitars dripped the soul of the blues they were made to talk in the bends and slides,the phrasing of the masters.Who couldnt have been bowled over and influenced when hearing those greats play.,Bb ,the thrill is gone,superb.then you got Qtis Rush,now Im going way of track ,oops sorry!blame it on the flu and the the jamesons fighting it. Edited October 6, 2012 by manusf3a

[Guest gordon russell]

There are lots of really good white soul singers now. just look at xfactor.

We shall take this as a joke,which i,m sure you mean,t.......xfactor...ummm......never heard so many young people singing such dreary f**king music in all my life.........lucky for us they had a different thought pattern when berry gordy got going

[Tiberius]

...does this mean that you see white vocalists inferior at their art?

From a purely logical point of view, if "their art" refers to their ability as a "soul singer" the answer must be a resounding yes, white vocalists are inferior.

If you look at the numbers there are nowhere near as many top drawer white soul vocalists compared with a huge volume of black artists one could name. If, however, "their art" refers to their ability as a vocalist in another genre then I guess the opposite could well be true eg. country music etc.

It's mostly historical given the roots of the blues/soul/jazz genres.

Having said the above, logic and ethnicity go out the window when you hear a great song, and I for one, have absolutely no bias either way. I buy anything I damn well like....................er, as long as it falls within my meagre budget.

[John Reed]

Following Nick's comment on Barry's original post, I've re-read it and maybe I misread it.

When I was younger I had a blinkered approach to what I listened to. It had to be black or nothing and anything not, I classed it as crap. But as I've got older or matured, I have become more open to other forms of music and and race of singers. I wouldn't even allow the likes of Dan Penn or Eddie Hinton to enter my house let alone take time playing on my decks. One day I begrudgingly listened to Eddie Hinton's Very Extremely Dangerous LP and it hit me like a lightening bolt, what a fantastic "soul" singer he was. It was essentially from that day that my mind was opened to the greatness of other musical genres and singers. Maybe my attitude was a throwback against the music I grew up with as my father's favourite singers were Tony Bennet & Peggy Lee who are musical greats or more than their respective genres and not to acknowledge that is foolish. I also think Johnny Cash, Neil Diamond, Elvis Presley, Joe Cocker, Tom Jones and Dusty Springfield (I'm still not convinced she was a true soul singer, but that she was a pop singer who sang with soul, but that's splitting hairs) were fantastic vocalists. From a more modern perspective I think Adele is a great singer and I went to see her with my wife and really enjoyed it. Russel Watson and Michael Bouble's talent cannot be denied and even a strange one for me is that I really seem to like a lot of music of the Canadian grunge rock band Nicleback. I think Chris Kroeger has something hypnotic and does sing with his soul.

So I think the recognition/acceptance of other music other than black sung soul is something that comes with age and maturity. Saying that I do hate being told something is a soul when it really its not, just because its rare and someone wants to play it at a soul night.

[Back Street Blue]

you can't say white vocalists are inferior in performing soul music without condemning all the great white musicians who played on so many soul hits. Music that is soul music is soul music whatever the race of the artist. I run to the floor to dance to Mel Tourne and Shane Martin just as readily as I do to Jackie Wilson or Jean Chandler. I rest my face.

[Barry]

you can't say white vocalists are inferior in performing soul music without condemning all the great white musicians who played on so many soul hits. Music that is soul music is soul music whatever the race of the artist. I run to the floor to dance to Mel Tourne and Shane Martin just as readily as I do to Jackie Wilson or Jean Chandler. I rest my face.

I didn't say anything, I asked you your opinion....unfortunately you fell at the first hurdle....'read and undertsand the question befor you answer'

[Barry]

Btw, I hope your face is now rested and it is Gene Chandler cockertoo

[Back Street Blue]

you can't say white vocalists are inferior in performing soul music without condemning all the great white musicians who played on so many soul hits. Music that is soul music is soul music whatever the race of the artist. I run to the floor to dance to Mel Tourne and Shane Martin just as readily as I do to Jackie Wilson or Jean Chandler. I rest my face.

excuse typos,

[Barry]

excuse typos,

Genius

[Barry]

Mate, I'm pleased that you had enough passion to reply, making it your 11th post - I must have pushed the button surely....this board is vicious though mate, so 'check yo self' before you jump in....I've been barred on numerous occassions for much less.

[Back Street Blue]

I wasn't suggesting that you were saying that you thought that white artists are inferior. I was responding to your thought provoking question and by "you can't" I meant that generically. I'm not an avid collector and don't buy sounds and well aware that I am well out of my depth in both the world of the anorak and that of the pseudo intellectual. I have been listening to and dancing to soul music since I was 13 years of age and I like what I like. I'm not too fussed about how rare or expensive a tune is as long as I like it. Live and let live bruv.

[Mark S]

...does this mean that you see white vocalists inferior at their art?

(Devils Advocate)

I will probably get lambasted and strung up for this .

Working of an assumption that soul music is a reflection of the black experience and all that embodies then if a white artist sings soul surely its an imitation of that style .