Frank Wilson

[Mickjay33]

on john manships site original 1979 ABBEY ROAD studio acetate cut in preparation of the UK release will this fetch a huge amount or about the same as the british demo

Edited October 4, 2012 by mickjay33

[Soulman]

I guess potentially you argue the toss that it's rarer than the two US copies.... so, on that basis some lunatic will probably pay £50,000............not!

Seriously, would anyone have a clue what it would fetch... even John M wouldn't know. This is all based on the seller (owner rather than John M) either having a reserve of what they think is a realistic price or simply chucking it into the market place to see what it goes for. Personally I don't think acetates count in the value of records as they are a sub-genre, unique maybe, but not a record as such. But thats only my opinion of course and it counts for nowt in many cases

Best

Steve

[Dean]

I guess potentially you argue the toss that it's rarer than the two US copies.... so, on that basis some lunatic will probably pay £50,000............not!

Seriously, would anyone have a clue what it would fetch... even John M wouldn't know. This is all based on the seller (owner rather than John M) either having a reserve of what they think is a realistic price or simply chucking it into the market place to see what it goes for. Personally I don't think acetates count in the value of records as they are a sub-genre, unique maybe, but not a record as such. But thats only my opinion of course and it counts for nowt in many cases

Best

Steve

Just agreeing with the point about acetates counting in the value of records. The same discussion could be had for the other addition on JM auction site this week, Eddie Parker Love You Baby 10" acetate. In my humble opinion the value of an acetate is where it is the only format available. Pre-issue acetates are for me purpose made rarities, where I prefer rare by accident.

[Mickjay33]

i think ill have punt at buying it would look good in my collection ( as long it dont go 2 daft)

[Guest]

i think ill have punt at buying it would look good in my collection ( as long it dont go 2 daft)

As long as you know its an 18 inch acetate

[Ernie Andrews]

Do we know the source of the FW acetate-

Thier is the original acetate for the US copy Kenny had but obviously this is not the same one !

Edited October 4, 2012 by Ernie Andrews

[Pete S]

Pre-release acetates are worth no more than stock copies once they have been released.

[Mick Holdsworth]

It's not the first time John has had one of these, although it may well be the same copy coming round again.

[pikeys dog]

I've also seen it pass through eBay a few years ago - possibly all the same copy, but if not that makes at least three.

[Amsterdam Russ]

Never understood the logic that acetates are somehow of less worth than an actual release of something.

If there is but one of something on one format, but multiple copies of it on another format, which is the rarer? Even if there are multiple copies of an acetate, their numbers are invariably trivial compared to the number of vinyl/styrene copies pressed!

[Pete S]

Never understood the logic that acetates are somehow of less worth than an actual release of something.

If there is but one of something on one format, but multiple copies of it on another format, which is the rarer? Even if there are multiple copies of an acetate, their numbers are invariably trivial compared to the number of vinyl/styrene copies pressed!

Because the musical content is the same as the issued 45. Plus anyone can cut an acetate and stick a label on it.

It's like a pirate copy of a movie, fine for a few weeks then when it comes out on dvd, totally irrelevant.

[Amsterdam Russ]

Pirated copy, Pete? Not quite sure how you came to that analogy. We're not talking about the mass produced emidiscs of the 70s. And anyone can press a 45 and stick a label on it (and, of course, they frequently do)!

Nor do I understand why something is of a different value when it does indeed have the same musical content, but is on a format that is much rarer to get hold of.

I think it's more to do with the preference of the buying market at the end of the day. Acetates are rarer, but the market in the main just doesn't want them. For a market driven by rarity, that doesn't quite make sense.

[pikeys dog]

Pirated copy, Pete? Not quite sure how you came to that analogy. We're not talking about the mass produced emidiscs of the 70s. And anyone can press a 45 and stick a label on it (and, of course, they frequently do)!

Nor do I understand why something is of a different value when it does indeed have the same musical content, but is on a format that is much rarer to get hold of.

I think it's more to do with the preference of the buying market at the end of the day. Acetates are rarer, but the market in the main just doesn't want them. For a market driven by rarity, that doesn't quite make sense.

People tend to want unissued acetates only, because acetates wear out and are easily damaged, so a vinyl copy would be preferable.

[Pete S]

People tend to want unissued acetates only, because acetates wear out and are easily damaged, so a vinyl copy would be preferable.

If you look after acetates, they don't wear out, I've got some made in 74/75 which are as good as new after 100's of plays.

You can't cue them in though, they dig up immediately.

The thing is, with Frank Wilson available on at least 3 different bootlegs, 2 Tamla Motown issues and probably more, what could anyone gain by owning an acetate of it, now if it were an acetate of the SOUL 45 then maybe yes, that would be worth something, but an acetate of a 1979 reissue? I've had lots of acetates from the 60's which came out a few weeks later as 45's, mainly from the Pye stable, Chubby Checker, Newbeats that sort of thing, I rate them as being less valuable as the demos.

[Barry]

If you look after acetates, they don't wear out, I've got some made in 74/75 which are as good as new after 100's of plays.

You can't cue them in though, they dig up immediately.

The thing is, with Frank Wilson available on at least 3 different bootlegs, 2 Tamla Motown issues and probably more, what could anyone gain by owning an acetate of it, now if it were an acetate of the SOUL 45 then maybe yes, that would be worth something, but an acetate of a 1979 reissue? I've had lots of acetates from the 60's which came out a few weeks later as 45's, mainly from the Pye stable, Chubby Checker, Newbeats that sort of thing, I rate them as being less valuable as the demos.

...and as you know, when dropped - don't smash/chip - they ding - I have straightened one out mid set with a hammer

[Peter99]

I have straightened one out mid set with a hammer

Smiffy tried that with the Carstairs!

[Barry]

Smiffy tried that with the Carstairs!

I watched in horror ...but then again I don't stand on slugs either.

[Dave Moore]

I think a collectors relationship with pre release acetates lies in how you collect. I'll certainly collect pre release acetates of US 45s and do so whenever I can. I collect Pied Piper related items and have a couple of acetates that relate to their stuff, same with Harthon. It's not so much the rarity as the part they played in the development of the 45s. That's also why I collect Demos. It's the position in the promotional chain and their association with the distributors and DJs of the era that attract some of us to them.

I like certain distribution stickers on stuff. (Chips is a good example), It's the connection between you and the people who handled the records in their daily hunt for a hit.

Does that make any sense to anyone or am I slowly losing the plot in relation to connecting with fellow collectors in UK?

Regards,

Dave

PS The FW has no appeal at all. Emperors new clothes imo.