Jacki Lee Oh My Darlin'

[Ady Croasdell]

Am I right in thinking this was not that massive in the 70s and became bigger in the 80s. I think his faster tracks were played more in the 70s. Ady

[Phild]

If my memory serves correctly you are right.

Was pretty massive though by 1980

[Guest MrC]

Think Phils right, Temptation Walk etc massive early mid 70s, Oh my Darlin' definately getting a fair few plays by late 70s though.

Paul

[Gene-r]

I thought the 1972 release on Jayboy would have been to meet some sort of demand?

[Geeselad]

to many jackie Lee's to pick from I sposse.

[Pete S]

Surely all the classic Mirwoods were big in the 72-74 period, why would Oh My Darlin suddenly go big in 1980? I'd got it in 1975 from the tv repairman in our village and he was a Cats regular so they obviously used to play it there.

[Ady Croasdell]

Surely all the classic Mirwoods were big in the 72-74 period, why would Oh My Darlin suddenly go big in 1980? I'd got it in 1975 from the tv repairman in our village and he was a Cats regular so they obviously used to play it there.

I'm sure it was played a fair bit in the 70s but thought it was played less than Temptation Walk etc and that's why it went really big in the 80s. Jay Boy put out a lot of Mirwood on 45 in the early 70s, some were in-demand some weren't.

[Tezza]

Deffo played at Samantha's in the 73 - 76 era. Went 'out of fashion' for a while when the 100 MPH brigade took over as with a lot. 'Laine Hill - Time Marches On' was another. There's obviously a shed load more ?? Anybody ???

[AlanB]

I thought the 1972 release on Jayboy would have been to meet some sort of demand?

I think Jayboy released it in '72 just as another soul release, possibly on back of good sales of Shotgun & Duck/ Temptation Walk and Would You Believe, rather than because of high demand for it at the time. I remember Dave Godin raving about it in B&S on it's release, but I don't think it fared well in the B&S or dealer charts.

[Guest manusf3a]

Deffo played at Samantha's in the 73 - 76 era. Went 'out of fashion' for a while when the 100 MPH brigade took over as with a lot. 'Laine Hill - Time Marches On' was another. There's obviously a shed load more ?? Anybody ???

I reckon you are right on that one ,def samanthas.

[Amsterdam Russ]

Keb used to play it mid-80's. In fact, I remember him saying over the mic one night at the 100 Club that it was one his all-time favourite tracks.

[Guest DaveSwift]

I remember Dave Godin tipping it (probably 1971?) and at the time there were loads of cheap import copies. With it being a bit slow for those days it got left. Dave Evison played it quite a bit mid-70s in his Wigan spot and it went down well.

[jocko]

Pretty sure Searling played it at every Oldies Friday night I went to in 1980, although not sure what that tells you, and I stopped paying attention after the first couple of Oldies nights so maybe it just seemed he played it every time.

Pretty sure it was on a Jayboy demo with red A that he said was very rare.

Alternatively I was 17 having the time of my life and maybe imagined all of the above.

[Peter Richer]

Definitely played at the Howard Mallet in Cambridge in the late 70s.

Tony Dellar played lots of classy records before they went big elsewhere. Another obvious example would be the Metros - Since I Found My Baby.

[Guest scottie]

great song and i think the b side "dont be ashamed "is a really underated and under played song

[Sean Hampsey]

The chaps who said Samanthas are dead right. Was certainly an 'evergreen' favourite in South Yorkshire area (Rotherham, Sheffield, Barnsley, Doncaster) right through the very early 70's - pre-Sammies and beyond.

Everyone had it, everyone loved it.

Don't think I heard it played at all in the 80's, except at the odd 'Oldies' nights in the region, alongside Little Anthony, Chuck Wood, Spellbinders etc.

Sean

Edited September 15, 2012 by Sean Hampsey

[KevH]

great song and i think the b side "dont be ashamed "is a really underated and under played song

Funnily enough this got a play at a wine n tunes session i attended on Wednesday.

[Jaco]

Thought this was a Wheel track?

[Guest gordon russell]

the best jackie lee......"would you believe"....played for a while,2/3 years now, by the mighty FRED KROLL at ....as is always the case burnley nighter.........proper dancer

Edited September 15, 2012 by gordon russell

[Sean Hampsey]

the best jackie lee......"would you believe"....played for a while,2/3 years now, by the mighty FRED KROLL at ....as is always the case burnley nighter.........proper dancer

Another that was a very popular dancer (though not as big as OMD) around 40 years ago, in and around S. Yorks.

Nice to hear it's experiencing a new lease of life!

Sean

[Guest manusf3a]

Afine wine song only difference being it was really good to start with and to my mind always hits the spot when I hear it.

[Chalky]

Another that was a very popular dancer (though not as big as OMD) around 40 years ago, in and around S. Yorks.

Nice to hear it's experiencing a new lease of life!

Sean

Thought it had always had plays over the years but hey if it's a Burnley monster I must be wrong.

[Guest allnightandy]

I bought it on Mirwood demo at Wigan in about 1975/6 love it !

[Dave Pinch]

goin back to the jayboy releases,..the sheppards how do you like it /stubborn heart came out in 1970/71 was this another one that they put out just as a soul release or was there demand..i thought it would have been much later when it got played

[Pete S]

Thought it had always had plays over the years but hey if it's a Burnley monster I must be wrong.

Agreed, thought it was Cats biggie.

[Ian Dewhirst]

goin back to the jayboy releases,..the sheppards how do you like it /stubborn heart came out in 1970/71 was this another one that they put out just as a soul release or was there demand..i thought it would have been much later when it got played

I don't believe there was any demand when Jay Boy issued it. Same as Jackie's "The Shotgun and the Duck", Jackie Lee & Dolores Hall "Whether It's Right Or Wrong", the Shepperds "How Do You Like It", Bobby Garrett's "My Little Girl" etc, etc. Jay Boy was the UK outlet for Mirwood at the time so they may have been contractually obliged to issue a certain amount of singles.

My mate, Syd from Heckmondwike collected Jay Boy and most of the Jay Boy soul releases were relatively easily available at the time. Plus Bradford Market was packed with Mirwood cut-outs as well, so all this stuff was pretty well-known throughout the north. In fact, I'd go as far to say that many of the Mirwood classics were overlooked because they were so easily available. These were the days when you could pick up Jackie Lee's "Darkest Days" on ABC for 60p on Global's wholesale list!

Whenever I heard "Oh My Darlin" back then I just presumed it was a well-chosen cheap as chips play - in the same boat as Bunny Sigler's "Girl Don't Make Me Wait" in terms of being 'known' and fairly easily available. I can remember literally hundreds of copies of "Oh My Darlin'" unsold @ 25p each on Bradford market. It was always a brilliant record but maybe just too common for it's own good back then, if that makes sense.

Still got the UK promo. I don't think I've ever heard a better 7" pressing in my life. The mastering is sensational.......

Ian D

Edited September 16, 2012 by Ian Dewhirst

[Sean Hampsey]

My mate, Syd from Heckmondwike collected Jay Boy and most of the Jay Boy soul releases were relatively easily available at the time. Plus Bradford Market was packed with Mirwood cut-outs as well, so all this stuff was pretty well-known throughout the north. In fact, I'd go as far to say that many of the Mirwood classics were overlooked because they were so easily available. These were the days when you could pick up Jackie Lee's "Darkest Days" on ABC for 60p on Global's wholesale list!

Whenever I heard "Oh My Darlin" back then I just presumed it was a well-chosen cheap as chips play - in the same boat as Bunny Sigler's "Girl Don't Make Me Wait" in terms of being 'known' and fairly easily available. I can remember literally hundreds of copies of "Oh My Darlin'" unsold @ 25p each on Bradford market. It was always a brilliant record but maybe just too common for it's own good back then, if that makes sense.

Agreed Ian, when I said everyone had it, I almost mentioned the dozens of copies to be found on Market stalls throughout Yorkshire in the early 70's.

Along with Spyder Turner "I Can't Make It Anymore" everybody and their Grandmother had a copy!

Sean

[Jaco]

I don't believe there was any demand when Jay Boy issued it. Same as Jackie's "The Shotgun and the Duck", Jackie Lee & Dolores Hall "Whether It's Right Or Wrong", the Shepperds "How Do You Like It", Bobby Garrett's "My Little Girl" etc, etc. Jay Boy was the UK outlet for Mirwood at the time so they may have been contractually obliged to issue a certain amount of singles.

My mate, Syd from Heckmondwike collected Jay Boy and most of the Jay Boy soul releases were relatively easily available at the time. Plus Bradford Market was packed with Mirwood cut-outs as well, so all this stuff was pretty well-known throughout the north. In fact, I'd go as far to say that many of the Mirwood classics were overlooked because they were so easily available. These were the days when you could pick up Jackie Lee's "Darkest Days" on ABC for 60p on Global's wholesale list!

Whenever I heard "Oh My Darlin" back then I just presumed it was a well-chosen cheap as chips play - in the same boat as Bunny Sigler's "Girl Don't Make Me Wait" in terms of being 'known' and fairly easily available. I can remember literally hundreds of copies of "Oh My Darlin'" unsold @ 25p each on Bradford market. It was always a brilliant record but maybe just too common for it's own good back then, if that makes sense.

Still got the UK promo. I don't think I've ever heard a better 7" pressing in my life. The mastering is sensational.......

Ian D

Yes Ian but was it a Wheel track?

[Pete S]

I don't believe there was any demand when Jay Boy issued it. Same as Jackie's "The Shotgun and the Duck", Jackie Lee & Dolores Hall "Whether It's Right Or Wrong", the Shepperds "How Do You Like It", Bobby Garrett's "My Little Girl" etc, etc. Jay Boy was the UK outlet for Mirwood at the time so they may have been contractually obliged to issue a certain amount of singles.

Ian things like Shotgun & The Duck and My Little Girl where released due to public demand, they weren't issued on spec just because President had the rights to them. Not saying all Mirwood things on Jayboy were, but 99% of the dancers were. The Cats and The Torch had Cigarette Ashes and That Beatin Rhythm and My Little Girl etc before Jayboy released them, of course they did.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian things like Shotgun & The Duck and My Little Girl where released due to public demand, they weren't issued on spec just because President had the rights to them. Not saying all Mirwood things on Jayboy were, but 99% of the dancers were. The Cats and The Torch had Cigarette Ashes and That Beatin Rhythm and My Little Girl etc before Jayboy released them, of course they did.

Yeah, but since when were 'Shotgun & The Duck' and "My Little Girl" in-demand back then? I think these came out on Jay Boy as part of a long-term release schedule. As I said, my mate collected Jay Boy in the early 70's and we'd often ponder what was the point in many of their Mirwood releases. There wasn't any real demand to my knowledge apart from label completists and a handful of others.......

Of course, regionally back then, different records broke in different areas. I don't remember "My Little Girl" getting hammered anywhere much before the mid 70's but it could have been big in the Midlands maybe. And, yes, "Oh My Darlin' was a Wheel spin originally I believe......

Ian D

[Pete S]

Yeah, but since when were 'Shotgun & The Duck' and "My Little Girl" in-demand back then? I think these came out on Jay Boy as part of a long-term release schedule. As I said, my mate collected Jay Boy in the early 70's and we'd often ponder what was the point in many of their Mirwood releases. There wasn't any real demand to my knowledge apart from label completists and a handful of others.......

Of course, regionally back then, different records broke in different areas. I don't remember "My Little Girl" getting hammered anywhere much before the mid 70's but it could have been big in the Midlands maybe. And, yes, "Oh My Darlin' was a Wheel spin originally I believe......

Ian D

I'm talking 72-73 here, they were massive records!

[Guest gordon russell]

Thought it had always had plays over the years but hey if it's a Burnley monster I must be wrong.

never said it was a monster just one of many that others disregard played as always ......spareingly......one just has to listen

Edited September 16, 2012 by gordon russell

[Ian Dewhirst]

I'm talking 72-73 here, they were massive records!

Not around my way they weren't. I've never heard "The Shotgun & The Duck" out anywhere in my life and "My Little Girl" was considered a cheapie and hardly ever got played in any clubs between '71-'75. I think all the Mirwood stuff got revitalised in the mid 70's when Soussan did those Soul Fox boots. I'm sure my "Temptation Walk"/"The Shotgun & The Duck" UK Jay Boy promo came out of Jumbo's 10p clearout box not long after it was issued, so whenever that was, there really wasn't much demand for it at the time.........

Honestly most Mirwood stuff was fairly readily available following Jimmy Conwell and Richard Temple, so you'd be more likely to hear Mirwood records at a mid-week night rather than at any of the big venues, as unlikely as that seems. If you check any B&S club ads from that period, I very much doubt that you'll spot any Mirwood releases because they simply weren't rare enough by that point. Everyone had 'em.

I mean, you couldn't give away "Baby Do The Philly Dog" by the Olympics on Mirwood in 1972 (Bradford Market was packed with 'em and they were in every £1 pack Soul Pack), yet Jay Boy still issued it anyway. Why? That's why I think they simply scheduled X amount of Mirwood releases to fulfil the contract.........could be wrong but that's what it looks like to me 'cos some of those releases really didn't make much sense at the time as they were all 60's recordings being released between 1970 to 1972 and many people had moved on fresher records by then.

They weren't even old enough to be proper oldies by then!

Ian D

[Rob Wigley]

Temptation Walk was always "Bigger" Mansfield way hand in hand with Richard Temple in the 70s , but as above replies you probably wouldn't have noticed "Oh my darling" getting played as it seems to have been a "Constant" spin on the oldies circuit ?

Malc Burton will know...

again never rare enough to be "Big"

Rob

[Jez Jones]

Yeah, but since when were 'Shotgun & The Duck' and "My Little Girl" in-demand back then? I think these came out on Jay Boy as part of a long-term release schedule. As I said, my mate collected Jay Boy in the early 70's and we'd often ponder what was the point in many of their Mirwood releases. There wasn't any real demand to my knowledge apart from label completists and a handful of others.......

Of course, regionally back then, different records broke in different areas. I don't remember "My Little Girl" getting hammered anywhere much before the mid 70's but it could have been big in the Midlands maybe. And, yes, "Oh My Darlin' was a Wheel spin originally I believe......

Ian D

You probably right with the regional thing....My little Girl, Shotgun and the Duck . Temptation Walk. Your P-e-r-s-o-n-a-l-i-t-y....all staple early Hose st spins along with Conwell and Temple...although granted these were more popular........Olympics..... Philly dog..was a 'known' spin before all of em ..if memory serves

[Sean Hampsey]

So, to try to answer Ady's question; would it be fair to say that 'Oh My Darling' was a very well established regional tune (oop north) throughout the early 70's, a well hammered oldie by the mid 70's and a played out Oldie by the 80's - at least as far as the North is concerned?

Did it only "go really big in the 80's" in the South?

If so, which part of the 80's and at which venue or venues?

Sean

[pikeys dog]

Philly dog..was a 'known' spin before all of em ..if memory serves

Probably down to the Action label issue.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Probably down to the Action label issue.

So even less point in Jay Boy releasing it yet again when there was no real demand.......

Ian D

[Pete S]

So even less point in Jay Boy releasing it yet again when there was no real demand.......

Ian D

Honestly what rubbish, it came out on Fontana, got deleted, came out on Action due to demand, got deleted, came out on Jayboy due to demand again...

[Ady Croasdell]

I disagree Pete, I don't think the people at Jay Boy were that clued up to the scene. They ended up with some good soul catalogues and got it right on a couple of things but probably took the view that if it was an uptempo record on Mirwood they'd reissue it and see what happened. The in-demanders sold, the others probably bombed.

[Pete S]

I disagree Pete, I don't think the people at Jay Boy were that clued up to the scene. They ended up with some good soul catalogues and got it right on a couple of things but probably took the view that if it was an uptempo record on Mirwood they'd reissue it and see what happened. The in-demanders sold, the others probably bombed.

I disagree with your disgreement.

Look at the amount of copies of the Mirwood things around, every time I buy a collection there's half a dozen in there, yet your Ernie & Ed's are nowhere.

They obviously had people with their finger on the pulse of the scene telling them what to release. I've got some Mike Raven shows featuring these records so they weren't just issuing them for the sake of it, they wanted them to be hits.

[Sean Hampsey]

Olympics..... Philly dog..was a 'known' spin before all of em ..if memory serves

Agree with Jez, "Baby Do The Philly Dog" was a very big 'club' tune in our neck of the woods (on the back of plays at the Wheel, Mojo etc.) several years before we'd even heard of Northern Soul or 'Cigarette Ashes' etc.

The Action issue, Joe, was almost certainly catering for existing demand, given that the 3 year old Fontana release was already changing hands for big bucks (about 3 quid) alongside the likes of the Flamingo's "Boogaloo Party" etc. by 1969.

It was the first Mirwood track on the label too (Same Old Thing etc. came later) so I'm pretty sure it was demand that kicked off the relationship.

Other Action releases from Bobby Marchan and Minnie Epperson were also big in our town in 69 / 70 (pre- N.Soul era) but the Action label was one that never really had the 'smashes' on the scene until several years later (with Carl Carlton, Dee Dee Sharp, Eddie Holman etc.) which were actually oldies of course by then, but seen as 'new discoveries' in '74 / '75.

Don't know if any of that makes sense to anyone other than me. It's Monday morning...

:0)

Sean

[Ady Croasdell]

I disagree with your disgreement.

Look at the amount of copies of the Mirwood things around, every time I buy a collection there's half a dozen in there, yet your Ernie & Ed's are nowhere.

They obviously had people with their finger on the pulse of the scene telling them what to release. I've got some Mike Raven shows featuring these records so they weren't just issuing them for the sake of it, they wanted them to be hits.

Of course they wanted them to be hits but for a lot of the releases they were just hoping, there was no demand for several of them at the time of release.

[Ian Dewhirst]

I disagree Pete, I don't think the people at Jay Boy were that clued up to the scene. They ended up with some good soul catalogues and got it right on a couple of things but probably took the view that if it was an uptempo record on Mirwood they'd reissue it and see what happened. The in-demanders sold, the others probably bombed.

That's pretty much exactly what happened in my view. I think the nature of Ed Kassners operation at the time was that they'd pick up whatever halfway decent catalogues they could and throw 'em out there to see what happened. So they got Mirwood, Shout, DC etc and then eventually got lucky with TK and started having hits.

If the label knew about northern demand, then surely they'd have issued "Number One" by the Exciters rather than "Soul Motion" surely.....?

Ian D

[Pete S]

That's pretty much exactly what happened in my view. I think the nature of Ed Kassners operation at the time was that they'd pick up whatever halfway decent catalogues they could and throw 'em out there to see what happened. So they got Mirwood, Shout, DC etc and then eventually got lucky with TK and started having hits.

If the label knew about northern demand, then surely they'd have issued "Number One" by the Exciters rather than "Soul Motion" surely.....?

Ian D

These are the same people who issued things like Johnny Wyatt and Jimmy Robins, they had a specific market for these, they weren't exactly chart fodder.

Anyway let's agree to disagree. Jackie Lee "Oh My Darlin'" was always a second division Mirwood sound until reappraised much later.

[Tobytyke]

I remember this being reviewed in Blues and Soul on release . John Abbey gave it a right slating and one star. Dave Godin was not happy

[Rob Wigley]

Who was actually behind JayBoy ?

Chris Shaw had a full set-(with my help) after collecting the soul stuff, he even had Ray Merell after a tip off from Pete Widd, so I used to pick him up the Migil 5s when I saw them for pennies Its a totally strange label as regards the span of music it covers, with loads of hidden gems, like philip Mitchell California etc

""¹Did they get the Mirwood catalogue cheap ? Chris certainly had the "Oh my darlin" years

Rob

[Pete S]

Who was actually behind JayBoy ?

Chris Shaw had a full set-(with my help) after collecting the soul stuff, he even had Ray Merell after a tip off from Pete Widd, so I used to pick him up the Migil 5s when I saw them for pennies Its a totally strange label as regards the span of music it covers, with loads of hidden gems, like philip Mitchell California etc

""¹Did they get the Mirwood catalogue cheap ? Chris certainly had the "Oh my darlin" years

Rob

Part of the President set up owned by Ed Kassner.

The first releases, before they settled down into soul, are an amazing hotch-potch of styles; rocksteady, pop, psychedelia, novelty. Some very interesting and obscure non-soul singles there.

[Sean Hampsey]

These Ads should serve as a reminder as to how JayBoy used to market their Mirwood Catalogue.

Both Richard Temple and Donald Height, both early JayBoy titles, rush released to meet demand.

Such was the hurry to get the Advertisement out there, the title on the Ad was set incorrectly!

Most of the first 24 releases were poor sellers and are therefore quite scarce.

It wasn't until the 25th release (Harlem Shuffle) that they started tapping into the 'Northern' opportunity with Mirwood etc. and 'Shotgun & The Duck' 'Would You Believe' 'That Beatin' Rhythm' etc. quickly ensued.

Sean

[Ian Dewhirst]

Actually whilst we're on the subject, what was the deal with Doris Willingham Jay Boy 1? Was it simply licensed to Jay Boy period? It never had a US label other than those strange U.S. Jay Boy pressings..........

Ian D