Would The Scene Die If There Were No Longer Vinyl

[Billy Freemantle]

Would the scene die if there were no longer individual vinyl collectors? Let me first define what I mean by the scene. I'm not talking about groups of people socializing together at venues, although this is obviously what the scene or part of it means to some people. By the scene I simply mean people, whether individually or collectively, buying and listening to rare soul and expecting there to be steady additions to the 'library' of available sounds.

It seems to me that it would not die. Certainly, the impetus provided by collectors would be missing, and this in turn would potentially result in fewer records being unearthed. But we would still have new material being provided for our listening pleasure by the specialist rare soul purveyors such as Ady C. at Kent, whose vault explorations and finds over the years have come up with quality records that have energized and revitalized our ear-drums.

[Mark B]

Would the scene die if there were no longer individual vinyl collectors? Let me first define what I mean by the scene. I'm not talking about groups of people socializing together at venues, although this is obviously what the scene or part of it means to some people. By the scene I simply mean people, whether individually or collectively, buying and listening to rare soul and expecting there to be steady additions to the 'library' of available sounds.

It seems to me that it would not die. Certainly, the impetus provided by collectors would be missing, and this in turn would potentially result in fewer records being unearthed. But we would still have new material being provided for our listening pleasure by the specialist rare soul purveyors such as Ady C. at Kent, whose vault explorations and finds over the years have come up with quality records that have energized and revitalized our ear-drums.

i think for me yes it would die not agreat fan of the cd.

mark

[Billy Freemantle]

So, are you saying that it's the grooves and not what's in the grooves that counts?

[Guest ShaneH]

it wouldnt die in my opinion.

the biggest percentage of the scene is the oldies scene. that part of the scene does very well without any new or original vinyl.

i think the biggest threat is not the lack of new records. its the lack of people that dance.

more and more people are dancing less and less as the years go by. many don't even dance at all these days.

they say its a male orientated scene and i am starting to disagree with that to be honest. the majority of dancers are women these days. surely the dancing is as important as anything to do with this scene?

the recent lifeline event at the fox was a brilliant night. the dancefloor was quite small however. some complained the dancefloor was too small. i think a few years ago there would have been many more complaints.

we have enough records in england now. we cant afford to lose many more dancers though.

Shane

ps. regarding the fox: the dancefloor will be bigger for the next event apparently. good news cos its a fantastic event.

[Billy Freemantle]

For me, the music has no longer anything at all to do with dancing. It is now music to listen to, to tap my fit to and wiggle about in the car to at the most.. Sad but true! And I wouldn't be at all surprised if that applies to plenty of other first wave fans. But I don't see myself ever not wanting to make these miniscule movements to this most danceable of genres.

[Guest ShaneH]

For me, the music has no longer anything at all to do with dancing. It is now music to listen to, to tap my fit to and wiggle about in the car to at the most.. Sad but true! And I wouldn't be at all surprised if that applies to plenty of other first wave fans. But I don't see myself ever not wanting to make these miniscule movements to this most danceable of genres.

i agree - sad but true yes.

Shane

[Mark B]

So, are you saying that it's the grooves and not what's in the grooves that counts?

no but i like to hear new stuff as much as possible so if no more new stuff turned up then it would die for me, luckily i was missing for all the 80's and part of the 90's so there is tons of stuff that is still new to me. i do not dance much now mainly because after 1 or two dances i am knackered and my knee aches so have to rest it.

vinyl for me will always rule over other types of music recording mediums,

mark

[Billywhizz]

it wouldnt die in my opinion.

the biggest percentage of the scene is the oldies scene. that part of the scene does very well without any new or original vinyl.

i think the biggest threat is not the lack of new records. its the lack of people that dance.

more and more people are dancing less and less as the years go by. many don't even dance at all these days.

they say its a male orientated scene and i am starting to disagree with that to be honest. the majority of dancers are women these days. surely the dancing is as important as anything to do with this scene?

the recent lifeline event at the fox was a brilliant night. the dancefloor was quite small however. some complained the dancefloor was too small. i think a few years ago there would have been many more complaints.

we have enough records in england now. we cant afford to lose many more dancers though.

Shane

ps. regarding the fox: the dancefloor will be bigger for the next event apparently. good news cos its a fantastic event.

Hi Shane,

I can't see why it is male orientated if you look back at the early days it was basically more girls on the dancefloor than boys. Every music culture is basically dance, as we get older it is hard to motivate. I have noticed over a period of a few years people tend to sit down more and there is only a few people at the end dancing. A few people go now to socialise, as time go on I can see I'll be the only one on the dancefloor (lol). Oh by the way Shane happy new year!

Billy

[Guest ScooterNik]

If you're going to include modern soul in the equation then the question is irrelevant anyway?

[Guest Matt Male]

For me, the music has no longer anything at all to do with dancing. It is now music to listen to, to tap my fit to and wiggle about in the car to at the most.. Sad but true! And I wouldn't be at all surprised if that applies to plenty of other first wave fans. But I don't see myself ever not wanting to make these miniscule movements to this most danceable of genres.

I'm the opposite. For me the music has everything to do with dancing. If i couldn't dance anymore that would be it for me. I enjoy singing along in the car, but i would never be satisfied with just sitting and listening like some people do at nghters and soul nights. It's never been just music to listen to, other forms of music fit that bill for me. Soul is dance music, you have to move to it, i can't help myself.

Matt

[Mark B]

I'm the opposite. For me the music has everything to do with dancing. If i couldn't dance anymore that would be it for me. I enjoy singing along in the car, but i would never be satisfied with just sitting and listening like some people do at nghters and soul nights. It's never been just music to listen to, other forms of music fit that bill for me. Soul is dance music, you have to move to it, i can't help myself.

Matt

as per the title of a film "i'm dancing inside"

mark

[Guest]

Good one this Billy first and foremost as a dj / collector the yes it would cus i would have nout to collect certain sections of this scene its got to be vinyl and original vinyl at that call it stobbery wotever you want but i agree with ovo lot ORIGINAL VINYL ONLY wen a punter pays x amount of pounds to get in a venue dont they deserve to hear the records as they were recorded.But then there is the other side of the coin a punter pays there money to listen to tunes and dance do they care wot its on as long as they hear the top tunes of the day?and at most soul nites up and down the country 85% of the punters dont care weather its on vinyl cd mp3 or wotever as long as they hear it so no without vinyl the scene wouldn,t die but the rare soul scene would go further underground not a bad thing methinks

HB

[Mark Bicknell]

I think the only thing that will kill off the Northern scene as we know it ain't the original V other format debate, wrongs, rights, politics etc. but plain and simple 'TIME' or rather the passing of time, some four decades now and at present still going strong but in truth once our generation finishes with this then that could be that, i suggest we all do our own thing, enjoy and collect what we like and get the most out of it, let's face it most of us are hooked for life, i'm into my 30th year on this scene and i'm a youngster compared to some people...lol Having said all this i love the music more now than i've ever done and i still get the same buzz hearing a tune, getting a tune etc. even today i got home from work and a nice little packed in my post basket from Mr Manship, upstairs, opened and on the turntable....magic, get's you away from all the shit you have to deal with at work etc. we should all treasure this beautiful unique scene even if it does go back underground.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Richard Bergman]

The unearthig of new records is paramount to the scene imo.....

We are all on a quest......hence why people will refer to a certain record they've longed for as being the "holy gail".......lol

Cd's are a pale imitation of the real thing...a bit like the tv series of Planet of the Apes and the Stones since 80's.......

[Guest Dan]

would hasten the decline but less important now than if it had happened in the 80s, when collectors drove the scene forward.

the northern scene will die out - all good things come to an end - but the music will never die. when i win the lottery i'm going to open a chain of soul bars. it will live on in them

[Guest Matt Male]

...a bit like the tv series of Planet of the Apes

I disagree, Planet of the Apes TV series was quite good. I particularly liked Roddy McDowell as Galen.

[Billy Freemantle]

-->

QUOTE(mark.b @ Jan 12 2006, 06:26 PM) link

no but i like to hear new stuff as much as possible so if no more new stuff turned up then it would die for me, luckily i was missing for all the 80's and part of the 90's so there is tons of stuff that is still new to me. i do not dance much now mainly because after 1 or two dances i am knackered and my knee aches so have to rest it.

vinyl for me will always rule over other types of music recording mediums,

mark

In the scenario that I'm putting forward, Mark, there would still be music but it wouldn't be sourced from vinyl originals but from masters discovered in the vaults of the record companies. As I said in my first post, this has been a source of sounds for some time. Unissued songs from other older genres such as Blues are available in this way, too. Enough seems to have been recorded ,but not released, to provide a product for those who want to buy it. I don't think we have any reason to assume that the situation is any different for soul as far as available product is concerned.In other words, if it is just the music and not the thrill of the chase and the collecting that really matters, then you have nothing to worry about I would have thought.In the real world of course vinyl will not simply cease to exist: it will exist - as it does now - alongside other formats.But if it did ( let's imagine that vinyl simply started to self destruct as other storage media actually can in reality!) the notes in the grooves would still be there.

[Billy Freemantle]

I think the only thing that will kill off the Northern scene as we know it ain't the original V other format debate, wrongs, rights, politics etc. but plain and simple 'TIME' or rather the passing of time, some four decades now and at present still going strong but in truth once our generation finishes with this then that could be that, i suggest we all do our own thing, enjoy and collect what we like and get the most out of it, let's face it most of us are hooked for life, i'm into my 30th year on this scene and i'm a youngster compared to some people...lol Having said all this i love the music more now than i've ever done and i still get the same buzz hearing a tune, getting a tune etc. even today i got home from work and a nice little packed in my post basket from Mr Manship, upstairs, opened and on the turntable....magic, get's you away from all the shit you have to deal with at work etc. we should all treasure this beautiful unique scene even if it does go back underground.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I can't really see how the passing of time is a factor insofar as the survival of the music is concerned. It obviously matters in terms of how the music is viewed ( i.e. as something to dance to and as a focal point for a certain way of socialising in more or less formal manner or as simply music to listen to). Time matters in the first instance: but not in the second, I think.

[Mark Bicknell]

I can't really see how the passing of time is a factor insofar as the survival of the music is concerned. It obviously matters in terms of how the music is viewed ( i.e. as something to dance to and as a focal point for a certain way of socialising in more or less formal manner or as simply music to listen to). Time matters in the first instance: but not in the second, I think.

Perhaps i was mixing up the record thing with the longevity of the scene, i guess i meant enloy it to the full as time does pass us by far too quickly, also i do think this is music of a generation rather than future generations if you undestand what i mean......house partys thats the future...lol

Mark Bicknell.

[Billy Freemantle]

I suppose all music has its time. Even so called classical music (a lot of which we shouldn't forget was in some instances also dance music!) cannot possibly be said to have the same immmediacy and relevance as it had in the period in which it was produced. But, once recorded in some shape or form - even though that form be as basic as sheet music - then music, along with other art forms, has a shelf life that stretches temporal boundaries.

[Guest Dan]

I suppose all music has its time. Even so called classical music (a lot of which we shouldn't forget was in some instances also dance music!) cannot possibly be said to have the same immmediacy and relevance as it had in the period in which it was produced. But, once recorded in some shape or form - even though that form be as basic as sheet music - then music, along with other art forms, has a shelf life that stretches temporal boundaries.

blimey billy. have you been taking acid?

[Guest denmac]

billy f. in my view you have asked THE top question on this scene. you have asked it on a site that states no cd`s!!!. that speaks volumes for me.i would ask the purists,v only,when was the last time you saw someone look to see if tune was on V before dancing. billy, your question asks more questions within it,ie why do people make acetates of cd only tracks?,,,if i visit 3 venues over a weekend with no repeat of dj`s why do i hear 3 times at least atune that there is only 2 copies off.. hypethetical i`ll agree but do you follow. Also why do people complain about playing c d`s when the vast majority of us hear something for the first time on tape as in the past or cd`s ,mp3`s etc,now.....also how many cd`s have these people got at home.lets be honest if it wasnt for cd`s now and dare i say it pressings in the past how could this massive scene continue when it`s basis has been RAREITY. i would love to do a sample questionare at a nighter with things like ,1 how many copies of this record exist. 2 do you care?? billy the question you ask is one of many lately that have been raised hinting at peoples doomsday scenario. this will go on

[Guest denmac]

my great grandad is logged on e-bay as... pianola rolls for ever . no replys for years

[Mike]

billy f. in my view you have asked THE top question on this scene. you have asked it on a site that states no cd`s!!!. that speaks volumes for me.....

"states no cds....."

where does it say that ????????????

[Dave Moore]

Here my tu'ppence'worth.....

The vinyl collectors/purists/whatever you want to call them (us) are imo the fans with the strongest ties, passion, longevity in them. Probably lots of people will howl that "I love the scene but don't collect ANY format!" Fair play to you I know a few fans like that too. But in general, I think it's the collectors who form the hardcore of the scene as far as the music NOT the social part of it is concerned.

I remember when (zzzzzzz ) the ONLY people "at it" were the collectors! And when all the returnee fans find something encroaching into their lives that will replace the soul scene again (which they will, grandkids, retirement, etc etc.), the hardcore left to continue until they prize the last vestige of vinyl from their dead cold hands will be............. Exactly!

The soul "scene", also means different things to different people. "The Scene" and Original vinyl v other formats is ONLY an issue in the UK! Most people outside the UK find it completely incredulous, at least here in the States anyway. I would venture that the number of records leaving the shores of UK is now rapidly approaching a similar number to the ones arriving (if not more!). The Rare soul scene is now an international phenomenon. The UK is no longer the be all and end all of " The Scene". A lot of people who haven't experienced soul outside the UK tend to forget this and therefore their perception of collectors, and the soul "scenes", it spawns is a little one dimensional.

I appreciate the question was primarily concerned with the UK scene, but thought I'd put an international slant on it.

Only in my opinion of course.

Regards,

Dave

https://www.hitsvillesoulclub.com/

[Billy Freemantle]

Here my tu'ppence'worth.....

The vinyl collectors/purists/whatever you want to call them (us) are imo the fans with the strongest ties, passion, longevity in them. Probably lots of people will howl that "I love the scene but don't collect ANY format!" Fair play to you I know a few fans like that too. But in general, I think it's the collectors who form the hardcore of the scene as far as the music NOT the social part of it is concerned.

I remember when (zzzzzzz ) the ONLY people "at it" were the collectors! And when all the returnee fans find something encroaching into their lives that will replace the soul scene again (which they will, grandkids, retirement, etc etc.), the hardcore left to continue until they prize the last vestige of vinyl from their dead cold hands will be............. Exactly!

The soul "scene", also means different things to different people. "The Scene" and Original vinyl v other formats is ONLY an issue in the UK! Most people outside the UK find it completely incredulous, at least here in the States anyway. I would venture that the number of records leaving the shores of UK is now rapidly approaching a similar number to the ones arriving (if not more!). The Rare soul scene is now an international phenomenon. The UK is no longer the be all and end all of " The Scene". A lot of people who haven't experienced soul outside the UK tend to forget this and therefore their perception of collectors, and the soul "scenes", it spawns is a little one dimensional.

I appreciate the question was primarily concerned with the UK scene, but thought I'd put an international slant on it.

Only in my opinion of course.

Regards,

Dave

https://www.hitsvillesoulclub.com/

No, the question was not framed with the UK scene in mind. I actually haven't spent more than a few months in the UK in the last 25 years. As I said in my first posting: "By the scene I simply mean people either individually or collectively listening to rare soul."

You are probably right, Dave, when you credit collectors as being the most enthusiastic and loyal of all those who belong to the rare soul scene. But, perhaps, when this enthusiasm and loyalty is measured against the sheer weight of numbers of those who, at it most basic, simply passively consume in line with the defintion I have given, then which grouping really matters? Do we have any reason to believe that there has ever been a time when this group has in its entirity deserted the scene and where the colors of rare soul have been carried by " hardcore" collectors? The individual collectors may be the ones who write their memoirs but might it not just be the case that it is the shifting masses with grandkids that unconsciously and unwittingly matter more?

Edited January 13, 2006 by Billy Freemantle

[Mak]

In my opionion , yes because for me I love to hear the sound of the occasional scratch or jump or even a DJ miscueing . That for me is real and what the scene has evolved round since the 60's. For christ sake who wants to hear a remixed version of your fav choon or a DJ banging a cd on and standing round talking you may as well put a cd jukebox on stage and let everybody pick there own sets :angry:

LONG LIVE THE 45

[Billy Freemantle]

In my opionion , yes because for me I love to hear the sound of the occasional scratch or jump or even a DJ miscueing . That for me is real and what the scene has evolved round since the 60's. For christ sake who wants to hear a remixed version of your fav choon or a DJ banging a cd on and standing round talking you may as well put a cd jukebox on stage and let everybody pick there own sets :angry:

LONG LIVE THE 45

Could I ask you some genuine questikons , Mak, to get your position clear in my mind?

1.What would you do if we reached a position where all the pressed 45s, including demos, had been discovered?

2. What would you do if some circumstance arose that made vinyl unplayable ( we can use our imaginations here...vinyl( and styrene) eating bug that cropped up, spontaneous self-destruction of the material - kind of delayed built in obselesence)?

Are you saying that you would refuse to listen to other music formats? If your answers are 'yes' then doesn't it mean that the music is secondary to the delivery mechanism?

[Billy Freemantle]

Good one this Billy first and foremost as a dj / collector the yes it would cus i would have nout to collect certain sections of this scene its got to be vinyl and original vinyl at that call it stobbery wotever you want but i agree with ovo lot ORIGINAL VINYL ONLY wen a punter pays x amount of pounds to get in a venue dont they deserve to hear the records as they were recorded.But then there is the other side of the coin a punter pays there money to listen to tunes and dance do they care wot its on as long as they hear the top tunes of the day?and at most soul nites up and down the country 85% of the punters dont care weather its on vinyl cd mp3 or wotever as long as they hear it so no without vinyl the scene wouldn,t die but the rare soul scene would go further underground not a bad thing methinks

HB

Yes, you are probably very right, HB. Given the continued existence of vinyl, it probably is right that people get the real thing for their hard earned cash. But as you say there are those who couldn't care one way or another. What you are saying in other words, as others have pointed out, is that there are scenes within scenes - that what matters for one sub-section of 'the scene' does not hold true for others. You could well be right when you talk about the scene going underground again. In the early days, even cassette tapes were in their infancy and the record companies didn't understand it at all. The only way to listen to the music was to be actively involved in it. Lovers of rare soul back then were to a certain extent producers of the genre as much as they were consumers. We could argue that this gave it so much more meaning.

[Billy Freemantle]

billy f. in my view you have asked THE top question on this scene. you have asked it on a site that states no cd`s!!!. that speaks volumes for me.i would ask the purists,v only,when was the last time you saw someone look to see if tune was on V before dancing. billy, your question asks more questions within it,ie why do people make acetates of cd only tracks?,,,if i visit 3 venues over a weekend with no repeat of dj`s why do i hear 3 times at least atune that there is only 2 copies off.. hypethetical i`ll agree but do you follow. Also why do people complain about playing c d`s when the vast majority of us hear something for the first time on tape as in the past or cd`s ,mp3`s etc,now.....also how many cd`s have these people got at home.lets be honest if it wasnt for cd`s now and dare i say it pressings in the past how could this massive scene continue when it`s basis has been RAREITY. i would love to do a sample questionare at a nighter with things like ,1 how many copies of this record exist. 2 do you care?? billy the question you ask is one of many lately that have been raised hinting at peoples doomsday scenario. this will go on

Thanks for your support. I'll wait for the people you mention to answer the points that you have raised!

[Guest]

In my opionion , yes because for me I love to hear the sound of the occasional scratch or jump or even a DJ miscueing . That for me is real and what the scene has evolved round since the 60's. For christ sake who wants to hear a remixed version of your fav choon or a DJ banging a cd on and standing round talking you may as well put a cd jukebox on stage and let everybody pick there own sets :angry:

LONG LIVE THE 45

Got a 1968 vinyl jukebox and yes when you put your 2 shillings in you get seven plays with the everage dj set you 24 records only cost you 7 shillings for 24 but i only put bootlegs on it as i cant afford to collect for my play box and jukebox

HB

[Quinvy]

it wouldnt die in my opinion.

the biggest percentage of the scene is the oldies scene. that part of the scene does very well without any new or original vinyl.

i think the biggest threat is not the lack of new records. its the lack of people that dance.

more and more people are dancing less and less as the years go by. many don't even dance at all these days.

they say its a male orientated scene and i am starting to disagree with that to be honest. the majority of dancers are women these days. surely the dancing is as important as anything to do with this scene?

the recent lifeline event at the fox was a brilliant night. the dancefloor was quite small however. some complained the dancefloor was too small. i think a few years ago there would have been many more complaints.

we have enough records in england now. we cant afford to lose many more dancers though.

Shane

ps. regarding the fox: the dancefloor will be bigger for the next event apparently. good news cos its a fantastic event.

I know this isn't really answering your question Billy, but I think that Shane has hit the nail solidly on the head here. The fact that we are older, and that many of us don't dance is the real danger of this scene dying a death. Without dancers there is no atmosphere, and a great big empty void called a dance floor.It'll probably take me all next week to recover, but I'll be giving it large all Saturday night at Soul Salvation. I have actually thought about giving dancers free entry, simply to try and get some atmosphere going. Don't laugh, I can see the day comming when we have to pay dancers to come to our events. Very sad but true me thinks.

I would hate to think of a world without vinyl, and I'd probably jack it in. Phil.

[Guest Soultown andy]

The scene would definatley not die without vinyl,as most of the scene actualy dont care what format the music comes in.As for the danceing both phil and shane attend my venues and as you know phil even as late as last sat we had full floors right up to the last record,the problem as i see it is to many people trying to break into djing who are,nt good enough.As ive said i dont think the scene would die without vinyl but i hope that day never comes i do actualy beleive that useing original vinyl only is a way of keeping the djing standards higher,and that is my policy at soultown,obviously imho

[Quinvy]

The scene would definatley not die without vinyl,as most of the scene actualy dont care what format the music comes in.As for the danceing both phil and shane attend my venues and as you know phil even as late as last sat we had full floors right up to the last record,the problem as i see it is to many people trying to break into djing who are,nt good enough.As ive said i dont think the scene would die without vinyl but i hope that day never comes i do actualy beleive that useing original vinyl only is a way of keeping the djing standards higher,and that is my policy at soultown,obviously imho

Hi Andy,

When you say "too many people trying to break into djing who arn't good enough" Do you mean technically, or musically?Or both?

Phil.

[Guest Soultown andy]

Both phil this is obviously just my opinion,obviously we do need new dj,s breaking through and i always use 1 or 2 new guys or gals at each event,but not everyone is going to make it.

[Guest dundeedavie]

i agree with shane on the dancing front , i think there is possibly a thin end of the wedge that is heading towards a non-dance based scene and that to me is dangerous coupled with the slowing even further of tempos ..

i agree with andy in a way also regarding dj's , the thing is if more people got the chance to dj then they could be told if they are shite and put an end to their pretentions at the start rather than people carrying on for years without knowing they are crap .

also having a great collection of records doesn't make someone a good dj , i wish more people would realise that as well ... maybe strayed off the point there though .

someone estimated a few years back about the possibilty of 10,000 northern danceable tunes , well if some venues only play 500 of them there is a lot of scope and many more years left if the underplayed ones continue to get an airing

Davie

[Guest Dan]

2. What would you do if some circumstance arose that made vinyl unplayable ( we can use our imaginations here...vinyl( and styrene) eating bug that cropped up, spontaneous self-destruction of the material - kind of delayed built in obselesence)?

what if everyone's ears sealed up overnight? would we still care about vinyl then?

or dancefloor-wise, what if we all woke up one morning and found we had two left feet (happened to me years ago?)

to put it bluntly, what if your arm bursts?

[Guest Dan]

billy f. in my view you have asked THE top question on this scene. you have asked it on a site that states no cd`s!!!. that speaks volumes for me.i would ask the purists,v only,when was the last time you saw someone look to see if tune was on V before dancing. billy, your question asks more questions within it,ie why do people make acetates of cd only tracks?,,,if i visit 3 venues over a weekend with no repeat of dj`s why do i hear 3 times at least atune that there is only 2 copies off.. hypethetical i`ll agree but do you follow. Also why do people complain about playing c d`s when the vast majority of us hear something for the first time on tape as in the past or cd`s ,mp3`s etc,now.....also how many cd`s have these people got at home.lets be honest if it wasnt for cd`s now and dare i say it pressings in the past how could this massive scene continue when it`s basis has been RAREITY. i would love to do a sample questionare at a nighter with things like ,1 how many copies of this record exist. 2 do you care?? billy the question you ask is one of many lately that have been raised hinting at peoples doomsday scenario. this will go on

never understand this sort of post.

not saying this about you denmac cos i don't know you from adam but seems to me most people who post like this have some sort of chip on their shoulders about people with half decent record collections?

northern soul would never have happened without vinyl. we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

it can't be the MOST important thing to ANYONE - who would want butch's record collection if he'd taken an industrial sander to the grooves first?

it's ALWAYS the music first for EVERYONE.

it's just about what comes second on your personal list.

for some people, dancing comes next, for others it's collecting records, for others it's getting off their tits and gurning in the corner and for others it's just the fact of being into northern soul.

all imo of course

[Guest]

Would the scene die if there were no longer individual vinyl collectors? Let me first define what I mean by the scene. I'm not talking about groups of people socializing together at venues, although this is obviously what the scene or part of it means to some people. By the scene I simply mean people, whether individually or collectively, buying and listening to rare soul and expecting there to be steady additions to the 'library' of available sounds.

It seems to me that it would not die. Certainly, the impetus provided by collectors would be missing, and this in turn would potentially result in fewer records being unearthed. But we would still have new material being provided for our listening pleasure by the specialist rare soul purveyors such as Ady C. at Kent, whose vault explorations and finds over the years have come up with quality records that have energized and revitalized our ear-drums.

As a non-collector I see it like this.

No, the scene would not die - although the collectors play a huge part today, their prominence is not so important as it might have been pre digital. The internet, god bless her, has played a more MASSIVE part in the advertisement of Northern Soul than any DJ or collector could ever have wished for.

Every single record is now available as a digital file, available to all and sundry - and personally speaking, thank f***!

Why should this fantastic genre be restricted to collectors or those only interested in the genre. If an individual has never heard of it but stumbles across it on the internet then we have found a new fan... That to me means more than anything - to me it means infecting yet another person who will pass that virus on to their most immediate associates, spreading the sould virus even further.

If the internet had never arrived we would not be experiencing the wonderful scene we do now, really we wouldnt. And anyone that says otherwise is totally lying or blinkered

Yes, the original collectors played a massive part in creating and sustaining this scene, now? I'm not so sure. What else is there left to discover that won't be available on the internet.

The record collecting elitest club is a litte over inflated as far as I'm concerned. I don't mean any ill or disrespect by that, it's just that at the end of the day. Nothing is secret, individual or special any more.

That's the way of the world.

[Guest Dan]

As a non-collector I see it like this.

No, the scene would not die - although the collectors play a huge part today, their prominence is not so important as it might have been pre digital. The internet, god bless her, has played a more MASSIVE part in the advertisement of Northern Soul than any DJ or collector could ever have wished for.

If the internet had never arrived we would not be experiencing the wonderful scene we do now, really we wouldnt. And anyone that says otherwise is totally lying or blinkered

The record collecting elitest club is a litte over inflated as far as I'm concerned. I don't mean any ill or disrespect by that, it's just that at the end of the day. Nothing is secret, individual or special any more.

That's the way of the world.

how can you describe people as 'elitist' and not mean disrespect?

it's a mystery to me how 'collector' ever came to be the term of abuse it is today.

anyway, none of this matters. i think the northern scene has 10 years tops left as a proper scene unfortunately (there'll always be the odd little night here and there and maybe a revival would change everything) because of simple demographics. how many deaths reported on here recently? that's a snowball which will only gather pace sadly and all the mpegs on all the pcs in all the world ain't going to change that.

[Guest dundeedavie]

how can you describe people as 'elitist' and not mean disrespect?

it's a mystery to me how 'collector' ever came to be the term of abuse it is today.

anyway, none of this matters. i think the northern scene has 10 years tops left as a proper scene unfortunately (there'll always be the odd little night here and there and maybe a revival would change everything) because of simple demographics. how many deaths reported on here recently? that's a snowball which will only gather pace sadly and all the mpegs on all the pcs in all the world ain't going to change that.

i'm not saying you dan but i believe some people would be happy with the death of the scene when they are no longer able to take part .... it won't die in 10 years , it'll be concentrated on less venues and the travellers still travelling, still vibrant in my opinion and maybe it's not a bad thing to concentrate the scene to the hardcore still about ....

and i don't see why the term elitist is disrespectful at all ...depends if you see it as an insult or not ..i don't

[Guest]

how can you describe people as 'elitist' and not mean disrespect?

Easily actually, I mean those that are purely record collectors as elitist - nothing derogatory or disrespectful about that.. it purely took less words that I am having to type now.

Edited January 13, 2006 by Soulgirl

[Guest Dan]

i'm not saying you dan but i believe some people would be happy with the death of the scene when they are no longer able to take part .... it won't die in 10 years , it'll be concentrated on less venues and the travellers still travelling, still vibrant in my opinion and maybe it's not a bad thing to concentrate the scene to the hardcore still about ....

and i don't see why the term elitist is disrespectful at all ...depends if you see it as an insult or not ..i don't

i hope you're right davie

i'm very inactive but would hate to think these records weren't being played somewhere to someone

[Guest Dan]

Easily actually, I mean those that are purely record collectors as elitist - nothing derogatory or disrespectful about that.. it purely took less words that I am having to type now.

The record collecting elitest club is a litte over inflated as far as I'm concerned.

not derogatory?

anyway i personally couldn't give a monkeys, each to their own

you can have your bytes, i'll have my vinyl (and my bytes)

[Guest]

Dan, of course they won't NOT be played to someone someplace, it will not necessarily be played in big venues like it is now though.

Truthfully, when I look through all my photos of the nights I attend, the majority are older that me and I'm old. There are hardly any newbies, none that would take it seriously so yes, it's on the decline, so to keep the sound alive the internet is now playing a more massive role than any of the hard promoters here appreciate (although not all)

Edited January 13, 2006 by Soulgirl

[Guest Dan]

Dan, of course they won't be played to someone someplace, it will not necessarily be played in big venues like it is now though.

Truthfully, when I look through all my photos of the nights I attend, the majority are older that me and I'm old. There are hardly any newbies, none that would take it seriously so yes, it's on the decline, so to keep the sound alive the internet is now playing a more massive role than any of the hard promoters here appreciate (although not all)

i completely agree on that (i'm not against the internet, or cds...i've got an iPod i'm hip to the groove you know )

the internet has been a godsend - opened my ears to more sounds than any tape swapping. also given saddos like us something to do on a friday night when we're off the piss and there's nothing on telly

[Guest]

The record collecting elitest club is a litte over inflated as far as I'm concerned.

not derogatory?

anyway i personally couldn't give a monkeys, each to their own

you can have your bytes, i'll have my vinyl (and my bytes)

I didn't say anything like the above at all Dan! You gossip mongering naughy boy

[Guest rachel]

There are hardly any newbies, none that would take it seriously...

??????????!!!!!

I agree on the not many newbies but "none that would take it seriously"? What do you mean?

[Chalky]

As a non-collector I see it like this.

No, the scene would not die - although the collectors play a huge part today, their prominence is not so important as it might have been pre digital. The internet, god bless her, has played a more MASSIVE part in the advertisement of Northern Soul than any DJ or collector could ever have wished for.

Every single record is now available as a digital file, available to all and sundry - and personally speaking, thank f***!

Every single record isn't available digitally...and they won't be cause there's many you won't get. And where do you think all these digital files came from in the first place, yes from records belonging to collectors. Without them the scene and the internet collecting scene would be f*cked IMO. Where do the majority of the audio files come from on your site?

Easily actually, I mean those that are purely record collectors as elitist - nothing derogatory or disrespectful about that.. it purely took less words that I am having to type now.

comes across derogatory and disrespectful to me

[Guest]

??????????!!!!!

I agree on the not many newbies but "none that would take it seriously"? What do you mean?

None that would be looking forward to their next nighter, next weekender, next time they heard the records again.