Not everyone's cup of tea, but just how rare is this ?

Had forgot how good this was before Carl & maria Willingham played this for me and Christian when we were invited to them in October. I would really love a copy of this. I asume this is the first pressing of the record then. It later got released a couple of times or ??

Looked on Popsike and a copy went for over £600 a year back or so . Also curious how rare this is ??

Great choon....love it

Only ever seen a couple for sale

It's a tough one. Seen one or two on lists over last year or so. Andy D had one and think it went for £300 or £400 sometime ago, I'll have to look through lists to find out when exactly.

Edited January 12, 200619 yr by chalky

  chalky said:

It's a tough one. Seen one or two on lists over last year or so. Andy D had one and think it went for £300 or £400 sometime ago, I'll have to look through lists to find out when exactly.

-=====

never really turned up in any great quantity..

craig moerer had one last year for $400..

for me a great record.always has been always will be.

Wish I could say the same thing, but I've never been one for Rock music.........

Seriously though, I have never seen it on Inner Ear before - only ever heard of it. Would imagine it to be rockin' horse rare, despite my dislike of the track.

Edited January 12, 200619 yr by Gene-R

  Gene-R said:

Wish I could say the same thing, but I've never been one for Rock music.........

Seriously though, I have never seen it on Inner Ear before - only ever heard of it. Would imagine it to be rockin' horse rare, despite my dislike of the track.

It's not rock, it's funk.

How did it get released after the Inner Ear release then ?? Are they hard as well or easy to pick up ??

  Soulof said:

How did it get released after the Inner Ear release then ?? Are they hard as well or easy to pick up ??

It was reissued/booted for the funk market in the early 90s I think. There is probably a northern bootleg/reissue of it as well, I thnk Dave Godin was responsible, for both discovering it (and giving it to Ian Levine to play?) and reissueing it (might be wrong, not sure I was still in nappies at the time)?

The flip is rather special as well.

I think this record highlights one of the oddities of the northern scene. Because The Crow is without doubt a funk record. A hard syncopated funk record, no arguement. So many people on the scene love it, but why don't the DJs go out and look for other records like it? Is it a case of only playing what they know works rather than sticking their neck on the line and playing records they have not heard others play first?

Edited January 12, 200619 yr by James Trouble

  JTrouble said:

It was reissued/booted for the funk market in the early 90s I think. There is probably a northern bootleg/reissue of it as well, I thnk Dave Godin was responsible, for both discovering it (and giving it to Ian Levine to play?) and reissueing it (might be wrong, not sure I was still in nappies at the time)?

The flip is rather special as well.

I think this record highlights one of the oddities of the northern scene. Because The Crow is without doubt a funk record. A hard syncopated funk record, no arguement. So many people on the scene love it, but why don't the DJs go out and look for other records like it? Is it a case of only playing what they know works rather than sticking their neck on the line and playing records they have not heard others play first?

I released it on Inferno in the late 70's and it was not a bootleg. I tried to licence it off the owners but they wouldn't do that, but did agree to sell me the master outright. I own the rights to this day so if any TV company wants to use it for an ad let me know!!!!........ I bought a copy on Inner Ear for £200 from Pat Brady about 7 years ago but ended up swapping it for something or other, wish I had kept it. Think it was Colin who played it at the Mecca in the last hour spot,rather than Ian. .....

What about the reissue on Right On from the 70's...wasn't that legit?

  Soulof said:

How did it get released after the Inner Ear release then ?? Are they hard as well or easy to pick up ??

The UK Right On release should set you back about £30 tops I'd say

Why is this ever classed as 'rock music' by collectors, when it is clearly nothing of the kind? That always gets my back up. Another record which is often tarred with the same brush is Judy Freeman's "Hold On" on RCA, presumably because her band are called Black Rock.

James, in terms of deejays playing other records that are like it: it really is kind of unique; that's what makes it so special. Other funk records might have the same degree of syncopation, and may even have better breaks, but can't really match it for atmosphere or drama.

It always sounds great as a counterpoint to other types of soul music. In a set of wall-to-wall funk it may not have quite as much impact.

Records which break new ground on the scene do so when they stand out from what's around them at the moment: when people try to find other records that imitate mould-breakers things can start to go downhill. "Quicksand" by Kell Osbourne used to sound incredible in the 80s in sets of often-frantic 60s soul. In trying to replicate its impact deejays opened the door to the dreaded early-60s big-voice phenomenon. A lot of these records had zero soul-content, and a few played in a row could kill any dancefloor.

The great thing about 'Northern Soul' is that it's a broad church, sound-wise, but I wouldn't want to hear an hour of records which tried to ape the Crow, if you catch my drift. Variety is the spice of life.

Edited January 12, 200619 yr by garethx

Mick Smith had my old copy early 90's it is a very rare record

Any one post an MP3 cant find the recording i did before Mick had it

I sold the only one I ever had for £300 about 4 years ago. I agree with Chakly, price should be about £400. I sell the Right On copy for £10.

  Tedsoul said:

Mick Smith had my old copy early 90's it is a very rare record

Any one post an MP3 cant find the recording i did before Mick had it

Should be attached. Tune!

I always thought that the problem with this record is that it was too ahead of it's time back in 1975 when it was being touted as the next big thing. It's only this last 5 years that it's sounded in place really. It really is a minority of people who like it though (I'm one of them)

  garethx said:

James, in terms of deejays playing other records that are like it: it really is kind of unique; that's what makes it so special. Other funk records might have the same degree of syncopation, and may even have better breaks, but can't realy match it for atmosphere or drama.

It always sounds great as a counterpoint to other types of soul music. In a set of wall-to-wall funk it may not have quite as much impact.

I agree that that weird backward tape/record spinning noise in the Crow is very odd, but oddness does not make it good, just different. And I hardly think that playing a record that is 'different' from the norm is what makes it work as a 'northern' record, probably quite the oppposite? I'm pretty sure if it was being played today for the first time it would be met with hatrid and you wouldn't hear it being played by oldies DJs with not much imagination.

Have I just lit a touch paper, I'd best stand well back?

  J-Brew said:

Should be attached. Tune!

Ta very much keep finding these records i should not have sold :angry:

Was this released on the uk bulldog label or am I thinkink of something else.

  garethx said:

when people try to find other records that imitate mould-breakers things can start to go downhill.

We'd best stick to Motown and James Brown records then, because everything else is just a pale imitation.

  JTrouble said:

I agree that that weird backward tape/record spinning noise in the Crow is very odd, but oddness does not make it good, just different. And I hardly think that playing a record that is 'different' from the norm is what makes it work as a 'northern' record, probably quite the oppposite? I'm pretty sure if it was being played today for the first time it would be met with hatrid and you wouldn't hear it being played by oldies DJs with not much imagination.

Have I just lit a touch paper, I'd best stand well back?

i think you may be right on some of the things you say but it just seemed right at the time i agree that if it was a new find now it would probably not go down too well in the main northern rooms, but i like it and i think it is good that dj's try and throw oddball sounds in the mix. for me it makes it abetter night,

mark

I can't understand how it sounds 'odd' at all, in any way, but then again I'm into funk...not that this is in any way a funk record, you understand Just a f**king monsterous soul record that sounds like the guy was chopping down a forest while singing - nay, shouting - his way through it.

  fenman said:

Was this released on the uk bulldog label or am I thinkink of something else.

I bet you're thinking of Mr Floods Party

Some of you are forgetting something, this record was never a big record anywhere when first discovered, it might have had the odd play at the Mecca but I seriously doubt it ever had any action anywhere else and most people I knew off the scene didn't know it when it was released on Right On and only knew it having read about it in Blues & Soul.

  J-Brew said:

I can't understand how it sounds 'odd' at all, in any way, but then again I'm into funk...not that this is in any way a funk record, you understand Just a f**king monsterous soul record that sounds like the guy was chopping down a forest while singing - nay, shouting - his way through it.

Of course it's a bit 'odd'. It uses either a record player or a tape of an instrument being played backwards in it. That's weird.

Not like you to get so 'excited' about a record Jason? What's going on, have you just picked a copy up?

Edited January 12, 200619 yr by James Trouble

  JTrouble said:

Of course it's a bit 'odd'. It uses either a record player or a tape of an instrument being played backwards in it. That's weird.

Not like you to get so 'excited' about a record Jason? What's going on, have you just picked a copy up?

I think it's usually a piece of reel to reel tape which they record on, make it into a loop, and play it in reverse.

Isn´t this on the Cleethorpes CD ?? was it a big hit there ??

thanks for answers for my above questions That Inferno label Neil has that something to do with the Detroit Inferno label ? (guess not but had to ask) .

If someone has a copy to sell on Inferno or Right On (or Inner Ear dream on.. ) I´m very interested. Love the track !

sounds like the guy was chopping down a forest while singing

Exactly my thoughts !

If someone has a copy to sell on Inferno or Right On (or Inner Ear dream on.. ) I´m very interested. Love the track !

  Pete-S said:

I bet you're thinking of Mr Floods Party

Yep I was.

Just had a look in my " crap " box and found a copy of Mr Floods Party and the Crow.

£10.00 for the Right on release, bloody hell my kids inheritance keeps on growing

  JTrouble said:

We'd best stick to Motown and James Brown records then, because everything else is just a pale imitation.

That wasn't really the pont I was trying to make, James. In trying to copy JB, Otis Redding and Motown the producers and artists of black America came up with often brilliant music: sometimes the more amateurish and na¯ve attempts to do exactly that are the most transcendent examples of our music.

My point related strictly to Northern Soul deejaying. Most NS records are, whether we like it or not, generic. When DJs try to 'push the envelope' and play a record which is a very radical departure, sound-wise, for the Northern Soul scene, it can enhance the scene in a significant (if short-term) way. The Crow is a great example of that.

The problem arises when deejays with less vision try to hammer lesser records which 'sound like' records which broke the mould, as it were. The earlier example I gave, Kell Osbourne and a limited number in the same mould like Sam Fletcher were great records, but opened the floodgates to Popcorn being an accepted strand of the scene. Fine for those who like Popcorn, bleeding horrible for those who don't. I could have used examples like Charles Shefffield (50s R& or The Carstairs (smooth 70s soul). Years down the line we have far, far weaker examples of all these genres competing for deck space with 'proper' northern. A degree of experimentation is a very healthy thing, but the records must always be very good if they are intended to break generic strangleholds.

Edited January 12, 200619 yr by garethx

  Pete-S said:

Some of you are forgetting something, this record was never a big record anywhere when first discovered, it might have had the odd play at the Mecca but I seriously doubt it ever had any action anywhere else and most people I knew off the scene didn't know it when it was released on Right On and only knew it having read about it in Blues & Soul.

Certainly got quite a few plays at Cleethorpes mid 70's, I seem to remember at the same time as Black Nasty "Cut your motor off" and Bits 'n' Pieces "Keep on running away", oh how the dancefloor used to bounce to these tunes...

  Awake 502 said:

Certainly got quite a few plays at Cleethorpes mid 70's, I seem to remember at the same time as Black Nasty "Cut your motor off" and Bits 'n' Pieces "Keep on running away", oh how the dancefloor used to bounce to these tunes...

Maybe a few plays but those two other records you quote were big practically everywhere, especially Black Nasty..

  garethx said:

That wasn't really the pont I was trying to make, James. In trying to copy JB, Otis Redding and Motown the producers and artists of black America came up with often brilliant music: sometimes the more amateurish and na¯ve attempts to do exactly that are the most transcendent examples of our music.

My point related strictly to Northern Soul deejaying. Most NS records are, whether we like it or not, generic. When DJs try to 'push the envelope' and play a record which is a very radical departure, sound-wise, for the Northern Soul scene, it can enhance the scene in a significant (if short-term) way. The Crow is a great example of that.

The problem arises when deejays with less vision try to hammer lesser records which 'sound like' records which broke the mould, as it were. The earlier example I gave, Kell Osbourne and a limited number in the same mould like Sam Fletcher were great records, but opened the floodgates to Popcorn being an accepted strand of the scene. Fine for those who like Popcorn, bleeding horrible for those who don't. I could have used examples like Charles Shefffield (50s R& or The Carstairs (smooth 70s soul). Years down the line we have far, far weaker examples of all these genres competing for deck space with 'proper' northern. A degree of experimentation is a very healthy thing, but the records must always be very good if they are intended to break generic strangleholds.

I knew what you ment really, I was just being a bit of a dick.

We'll have a chat Saturday, if you coming down? There should be plenty of things in wrighty's box that are right up your street!

  J-Brew said:

I can't understand how it sounds 'odd' at all, in any way, but then again I'm into funk...not that this is in any way a funk record, you understand Just a f**king monsterous soul record that sounds like the guy was chopping down a forest while singing - nay, shouting - his way through it.

Just a brilliant track. Remember it from the Mecca, but I think it got played a lot at Lytham F.C. if anyone can remember that great little club.

  Awake 502 said:

Certainly got quite a few plays at Cleethorpes mid 70's, I seem to remember at the same time as Black Nasty "Cut your motor off" and Bits 'n' Pieces "Keep on running away", oh how the dancefloor used to bounce to these tunes...

Was also pretty big at St Ives in the mid 70`s.

Very difficult to dance to with the changes in tempo, unless you could shuffle which I never could.

  Soulof said:

Isn´t this on the Cleethorpes CD ?? was it a big hit there ??

thanks for answers for my above questions That Inferno label Neil has that something to do with the Detroit Inferno label ? (guess not but had to ask) .

If someone has a copy to sell on Inferno or Right On (or Inner Ear dream on.. ) I´m very interested. Love the track !

sounds like the guy was chopping down a forest while singing

Exactly my thoughts !

Yep on the Cleethorpes Story CD, Played at the Pier, Can't remember it played at the Winter gardens all dayers. Never heard it played any where else untill the CD release and then only the odd play.

I like it, and I think the more you listern to it the better it sounds

  Gene-R said:

Wish I could say the same thing, but I've never been one for Rock music.........

Seriously though, I have never seen it on Inner Ear before - only ever heard of it. Would imagine it to be rockin' horse rare, despite my dislike of the track.

I'd not seen one on Inner Ear for good few years. Then Andy D got the oneabout a year or so ago and saw couple more all within few weeks....like bloody buses

some say it's funk, some say it's rock.. I think it's funk/rock fusion, same as Maze, Sly and the Family Stone and Living Colour.

There was a bit of a funk/rock fusion resurgence in the early 90s with bands like The Dan Reed Network, Living Colour, Faith No More, etc.. I'd say Crow are the ancestors of that sound.

I like it anyway.

M.

  JTrouble said:

It's not rock, it's funk.

It's funking brillaint and reminds of my illicit youth, fun days at the Mecca!!!

  Pete-S said:

I sold the only one I ever had for £300 about 4 years ago. I agree with Chakly, price should be about £400. I sell the Right On copy for £10.

Have been informed (so haven't tried) that it sells for 50-75 for the other side to the funk market (on right on)

  garethx said:

Why is this ever classed as 'rock music' by collectors, when it is clearly nothing of the kind? That always gets my back up. Another record which is often tarred with the same brush is Judy Freeman's "Hold On" on RCA, presumably because her band are called Black Rock.

people classify "hold on" as rock music because judy freeman & black rock were a rock group. simple as that.

  JTrouble said:

It was reissued/booted for the funk market in the early 90s I think. There is probably a northern bootleg/reissue of it as well, I thnk Dave Godin was responsible, for both discovering it (and giving it to Ian Levine to play?) and reissueing it (might be wrong, not sure I was still in nappies at the time)?

Yes it was played several times at Mecca. At the time Dave Godin had the 'only' copy and Levine made a big fuss about wanting it. It was frequently tipped by both Godin and Levine in Blues and Soul/Black Music back in early '70s. Also got caught up in the 'Mecca plays Funk' disputes along with records like Del Rays Incorporated, Ladies Choice etc.

Rare then and rare now.

  Awake 502 said:

Not everyone's cup of tea, but just how rare is this ?

if my memory serves me right there is copies of this credited to your autumn of tomorrow by the inner ear

Used to like it but now sounds a little too brass construction for me don't care for disco at all!

  Tenyu said:

Used to like it but now sounds a little too brass construction for me don't care for disco at all!

Say, what?

  Tenyu said:

Used to like it but now sounds a little too brass construction for me don't care for disco at all!

How Brass Construction like the Crow, and how is the Crow like disco?

You're mad, mad I tell you!

Edited January 13, 200619 yr by James Trouble

  JTrouble said:

How are Brass Construction and disco linked?

And more to the point how are Brass Construction like the Crow?

Surreal. Is the answer rollerskates?

  JTrouble said:

How Brass Construction like the Crow, and how is the Crow like disco?

You're mad, mad I tell you!

Is it more Jimmy Castor Bunch then?!

Dave Thorley played it last year up here in Aberdeen and most peopel were asking what it was

I personally have always loved it- It was at atime when strange records were being played to liven up the mediocrity of standard soul stompers

- How someone can class it as disco is beyond me!

In answer to earlier question, it was licenced to Right On by the same people who dealt with us for Inferno release, the Right On deal was a licence that had run for so long and then lapsed...so they were free to deal with us..