slimharpo Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 This DG B&S column is in issue #170 September 1975. Reading it again reminded me how disappointing his columns could be sometimes, especially when he went on a rant about something. Commercialisation insofar as "Ëœdumbing down' the essence of Soul music was a relevant topic but could have been adequately covered in 2/3 paragraphs IMO. However, I was particularly interested in his scathing review of the re-release of Lorraine Ellison's "ËœStay With Me' which he describes as artificial, fraudulent & insincere, an opinion he formed when it was first released. He goes on to say in his view it is a "Ëœcunningly calculated exercise in plastics emotion' He also wonders "Ëœhow much calculated conniving went into its creation' and that L.E. was "Ëœprobably putty in the hands of her producers' phew! He then goes on to compare it with "ËœTrue Deep Soul' such as Piece Of My Heart, Erma Franklin and Soul numbers sung by artists like Irma Thomas. What surprises me is that DG doesn't seem to know or ignores the fact that Piece Of My Heart and many of the great Irma Thomas songs e.g. Time Is On My Side were written and often produced by the same writer/producer as Stay With Me, Jerry Ragavoy. J.R. also created great Deep Soul with Garnet Mimms & Howard Tate and many others. This column was written about 8 years after the song came out and Jerry Ragavoy was pretty well known by then yet he isn't mentioned in the review as maybe having a lapse in taste in DG's view. I happen to think he was wrong by the way but obviously he was entitled to his opinion but maybe he did not know as much as he thought or he was guilty of shoddy research. No surprise he gives 5 stars to his employer's Contempo album release! Comments anyone?
Pete S Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 You can't make an anti-Dave Godin comment on here without getting an earful so I won't...
slimharpo Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 You can't make an anti-Dave Godin comment on here without getting an earful so I won't... I'm not/wasn't anti Dave Godin and I didn't think my comments were. I used the words 'surprised' and 'maybe' to explain my comments.
Sean Hampsey Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Agree Dave wasn't infallible, but it would be a huge mistake to think that he wasn't aware that Ragavoy was behind both "Piece Of My Heart" and "Stay With Me". The 'facts' would have no bearing on Dave's opinion of the end product. He always went with his tastebuds, regardless. Remember playing him another release by Jean Plum (after he had raved over her "Look At The Boy") - he simply said "a shame that lightening hasn't struck twice!" He would never have gone along with undeserved praise for the sake of diplomacy - and would have been hugely aggrieved at the suggestion that the Five Star rating for the Bessie Banks release (which is far superior in every department to the Ellison 45) had anything to do with his relationship with B&S / Contempo. Sean
Pete S Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 the Bessie Banks release (which is far superior in every department to the Ellison 45) You have got to be joking.
Sean Hampsey Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 You have got to be joking. As a Deep Soul record, no Pete. I'm not joking. "Try To Leave Me If You Can" is the real deal. Incredible lyrics, superbly sung. a genuine, heart tugging, solid, genuine DEEP SOUL record. "Stay With Me" is an over dramatised ballad opus, the result of a cancelled session for Frank Sinatra. Highly sophisticated orchestration, but lacking in all sincerity as a true DEEP SOUL record. Sean
Pete S Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 As a Deep Soul record, no Pete. I'm not joking. "Try To Leave Me If You Can" is the real deal. Incredible lyrics, superbly sung. a genuine, heart tugging, solid, genuine DEEP SOUL record. "Stay With Me" is an over dramatised ballad opus, the result of a cancelled session for Frank Sinatra. Highly sophisticated orchestration, but lacking in all sincerity as a true DEEP SOUL record. Sean I apologise Sean, I thought you were talking about "Go Now"
Sean Hampsey Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 I apologise Sean, I thought you were talking about "Go Now" Gotcha mate, I know you've got a downer on that one LOL Sean
slimharpo Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 Agree Dave wasn't infallible, but it would be a huge mistake to think that he wasn't aware that Ragavoy was behind both "Piece Of My Heart" and "Stay With Me". The 'facts' would have no bearing on Dave's opinion of the end product. He always went with his tastebuds, regardless. Remember playing him another release by Jean Plum (after he had raved over her "Look At The Boy") - he simply said "a shame that lightening hasn't struck twice!" He would never have gone along with undeserved praise for the sake of diplomacy - and would have been hugely aggrieved at the suggestion that the Five Star rating for the Bessie Banks release (which is far superior in every department to the Ellison 45) had anything to do with his relationship with B&S / Contempo. Sean Hi Sean. Maybe then as a journalist he should have balanced out his criticism by giving credit to Jerry Ragavoy for the many soul classics he was responsible for instead of describing his efforts as 'artificial, fraudulent and insincere' and a 'contrived piece of melodramatic histrionics'. He had an opportunity to link J.R. with Piece Of My Heart in this review and for whatever reason chose not to. Anway if some people do not like Stay With Me they can flip over for I Got My Baby Back, a superb soul track in my book which DG chose to ignore or maybe the 2 stars were for that. I was being deliberately controversial about the Contempo link by the way and I agree that the Bessie Banks 45 deserved 5 stars! Just to be clear I was a fan of DG and mostly enjoyed his columns even getting a mention in one once!
Steve G Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) I think Tony Cummings had championed "Stay with me" either in the 'Soul' book or in 'Black Music' I can't remember which. No amount of critical analysis required, in a nutshell, there lies your answer as to Dave's concentrated outburst. Edited September 8, 2012 by Steve G
Chas Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Best sleeve notes I ever read were by Dave on Bobby Blands"piece of gold,writing about elitism and how,at the end of the day,artists have got to make a living.
Ian Dewhirst Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Best sleeve notes I ever read were by Dave on Bobby Blands"piece of gold,writing about elitism and how,at the end of the day,artists have got to make a living. Truer words were never spake. I don't think many of our heroes made much of a living from it....... Ian D
Soulman Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 He wasn't infallible. No he wasn't... he was vegetarian Steve
jocko Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) You can't make an anti-Dave Godin comment on here without getting an earful so I won't... Drama queen! Edited September 8, 2012 by jocko
slimharpo Posted September 9, 2012 Author Posted September 9, 2012 I was thinking about the Frank Sinatra cancelled session legend, has it ever been confirmed? It seems very coincidental that Jerry Ragavoy would be on hand with such a dramatic arrangement in his back pocket and have Lorraine Ellison with him, well rehearsed in the song. I would have assumed that having such an orchestra hanging around for rehearsals on a new song with an unknown singer would have been very expensive.
BrianB Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 I remember one of his articles in the mid 70s oil crisis where DG said that it would be the end of vinyl. Also another where he predicted a mass of NS sounding records would be released following the huge success of Maxine Nightingale RBWWSF here and in the States. He was brilliant when writing about soul, agree with him or not, but his crystal ball could cloud over on certain days. I love the photo of him with his sharp suit and the Motown crew and Berry G. He was right at the forefront of Soul in the UK. Very often his was the only voice we could hear (read!) from say 69 to 73 when trying to learn more about NS, the records and the venues. Also his descriptions of Love Love Love and Please Let Me In in B&S remain with me to this day.
Daveyboy66 Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) I remember one of his articles in the mid 70s oil crisis where DG said that it would be the end of vinyl. Also another where he predicted a mass of NS sounding records would be released following the huge success of Maxine Nightingale RBWWSF here and in the States. He was brilliant when writing about soul, agree with him or not, but his crystal ball could cloud over on certain days. I love the photo of him with his sharp suit and the Motown crew and Berry G. He was right at the forefront of Soul in the UK. Very often his was the only voice we could hear (read!) from say 69 to 73 when trying to learn more about NS, the records and the venues. Also his descriptions of Love Love Love and Please Let Me In in B&S remain with me to this day. Dave lived round the corner from me when he was manager of the Anvil film cinema here in Sheffield and I used to go and havea coffee with him from time to time...I remember him saying to me that it was good that i had been on the scene at the time I did 1970 - 1985 ( at that time ) because there would be no soul scene in avery short time with the advent of digital music...I don't think either of us could have envisaged just what the scene has become today with gigs and venue encompassing the length and breadth of the UK and Europe Edited September 13, 2012 by daveyboy66
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