boba Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Someone I know is going to be doing a Horace Ott interview very soon and asked me for help in details of Horace Ott's arrangements (and any other part of his music career). I know his name on a lot of random new york produced records, but don't have a general overview of the what / whens of his career. Like how did he start in music? When did he go to new york? Was he working for specific labels at specific times? Are there specific records that are interesting to ask about? Also, any specific, interesting questions about his career / work would be appreciated. thanks, Bob
Blackcab Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 You probably already know this but he is credited as arranger on both of The Insiders records on RCA Victor. I'm pretty sure I've seen his name on a few other singles on RCA from the mid to late 60s so maybe he was working for them then?
boba Posted September 7, 2012 Author Posted September 7, 2012 You probably already know this but he is credited as arranger on both of The Insiders records on RCA Victor. I'm pretty sure I've seen his name on a few other singles on RCA from the mid to late 60s so maybe he was working for them then? Yeah, I know his name is on a lot of RCA / Verve stuff. But was he employed by them, freelancing (his name is on mercury stuff too), etc.? What are some of his earliest arrangements? Did he do production work? Thanks.
Robbk Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 He seemed to be always an independent arranger. It doesn't appear that he ever had an exclusive contract with any one company. It also doen; look like he was the major A&R man wit any label, unless he was for one or two very small NY labels while he was also free lancing with the majors.
John Reed Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 He definately got around over the years. Would this help? https://scafricanamerican.com/honorees/view/2005/10/ I'd like to know how he got linked up with the Stax guys in the late 60's and why he didnt do more. I suppose royalties from YMCA significantly changed his life and his bank balance.
Robbk Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 There are no decent bios on him with any timeline. He must have been on leave from The Service in the very late '50s or at the beginning of the '60s. I don't remember any record with an arranging credit for him before 1962.
John Reed Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 I don't remember any record with an arranging credit for him before 1962. Thought Gladys Knight & the Pips - You Broke Your Promise on Fury was before 1962, he arranged that.
Robbk Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Thought Gladys Knight & the Pips - You Broke Your Promise on Fury was before 1962, he arranged that. Yes, that was late 1961. So, I now haven't heard of anything he's credited for before 1961.
boba Posted September 7, 2012 Author Posted September 7, 2012 Thanks everyone for the help so far. It would be great if the Bio had a timeline. Maybe if the guy went into the interview with a general overview of the work he did he could come up with a more detailed picture of where he was and what he was doing and who he was working for at the time. Arrangement is generally work-for-hire btw. Unless he was part producer or had writing credits, he wouldn't get royalties on YMCA. Any particularly interesting arrangments people can think of or arrangements for small labels?
Robbk Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 I'd also like to know which recording studios he frequented, and if he worked in Philadelphia and New Jersey as well as New York.
Platters 81 Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 didnt he arrange the Geminis 45s on Rca ?
Blackcab Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Yes, that was late 1961. So, I now haven't heard of anything he's credited for before 1961. The Shirelles "The Dance is Over/Tonights The Night" which he arranged is from 1960 it would appear.
John Reed Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 didnt he arrange the Geminis 45s on Rca ? He only did Can't Let You Go/I Hired A Girl, the others were done by Gary Sherman
Platters 81 Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 a good source of info is GEMM...key in "Horace Ott"...sellers like JM often give arranger/producer info in their descriptions...
boba Posted September 7, 2012 Author Posted September 7, 2012 OK, here is the list of "writing or arranger" from discogs, which is generally light on soul 45s, so he probably did way more. I have to split this post into parts because the messageboard won't let me post everything in one post. Hold on... trying to format this...
boba Posted September 7, 2012 Author Posted September 7, 2012 I give up, here's the link https://www.discogs.com/artist/Horace+Ott#Credits_Writing-Arrangement=&t=Credits_Writing-Arrangement&q=&p=1&per=500 the production link is sort of interesting too, a few mid 70s jazz and funk LPs.
Steve G Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) He arranged / conducted stuff on The Diamonds on Mercury in 1960 as well as The Shirelles. I think he did several of their 45s. 1208 was the first Scepter one he did. Steve Edited September 7, 2012 by Steve G
Garethx Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 One of Horace's greatest moments as writer and arranger: Nina Simone's "That's All I Ask". There is a cover of this by Jeff Buckley, who recognised its simple beauty, but it remains a relatively unknown part of Nina's repertoire. It's only on mono copies of the "Wild Is The Wind" album.
Sean Hampsey Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) Always been an important name to me, and one to look out for, since I first picked up a copy of Billy Harner "What About The Music"... crikey, nearly 40 years ago. His arrangements are usually fabulous. Pulled together a few which might be of interest to 'Northern Soul' fans where Horace was involved (see below). Pretty sure there will be others that I've missed. Would love to be a fly on the wall in that interview :0) What an INCREDIBLE career. Best, Sean Northern Related Tunes From Horace Ott Charades — Key To My Happiness — MGM Bobby Adams — That's The Kind Of Man I Am — Big Bee Billy Harner — What About The Music — Kama Sutra Billy Harner — A Message To My Babe — V-Tone Billy Harner — Everything's Hunky Dory — V-Tone Helena Ferguson — My Terms — Compass Helena Ferguson — The Loneliness Is Coming Again — Compass Celestrials — Keep Your Hands Off My Baby — RCA Celestrials — Chain Reaction — RCA Four Bars — Waiting on The Right Guy - Falew Jackie & The Umpires — Three Kinds Of Love — Sew City Sylvia St Clair — It Hurts To See You Happy — Brunswick Chris Hamilton — I've Got To Have Your Love — Bell Pierre Hunt — I've Got To Have Your love — Golden Wheels Jimmy Richards — My New Found Joy — A&M Milt Grayson — Your Old Standby - Derby Sharon Redd — Half As Much - Veep Jimmy Randolph — You Have To Lose Love — Honey Bee Gwen Kousar — The Hardway — Stork Chuck Jackson — Any Other Way — Wand Bobby Hebb — I Was A Man — Cadet Marie Knight — I Don't wanna Walk Alone & I Was Born Again — Diamond Marie Knight — Walk Away — Diamond Carolyn Franklin — Reality — RCA John Lucien — What A Difference Love Makes — Columbia Luv Co — Things Are Not The Same - Spring Bessie Banks — I Can't Make It Without You — Verve Perfections — And Then The Sun Went Down — Jubilee Skyliners — We've Got Love On Our Side — Tortoise Swordsmen — Grow On Love — RCA Jive Five — Happy Man - UA Mavis Staples — It Makes You Wanna Cry & What Happened To The Real Me — Volt Billy Adams — You And Me — Amy MVP's — Turning My Heartbeat Up — Buddah Don Covay — Mercy, Mercy - Rosemart Chantels — Indian Giver — Verve Geminis — Can't Let You Go — RCA Bobbettes — Happy Go Lucky Me - RCA Don Gardner — Prove It — Sack Mary Wheeler — Prove It - Calla Ike Lovely — Fools Hall Of Fame — Wand Brooks O'Dell — You Better Make Up Your Mind - Bell Magnificent Men — All Your Lovin's Gone To My Head — Capitol Lea Roberts — Don't Let Me Fall In Love Alone — UA Donald Height — Bow N'Arrow — Roulette Relations — Back To The Beach — Davy Jones Ronnie Wilson — Boy In A Crowd - Karate Dee Dee Warwick — We're Doing Fine — Mercury Dee Dee Warwick — Gotta Get A Hold Of Myself — Mercury Mary Wells — It Must Be — Jubilee Mary Wells — Dig The Way I Feel — Jubilee Le Vons — Everytime - Columbia Sylvia Robbins — Our Love — Sue 11th Commandment — Why Are You So Hard To Forget — Chess Ray Garvetta — I Can't Take It — La Vette Buddy Skipper — Restless Breed - Deesu Brenda Jo Harris — Play With Fire — Roulette Dee Clark — Don't walk Away From Me — VJ Ben E King — So Much Love - Atlantic Sam Waymon — You Can Count On Me — Ninandy Ben Monroe — Broken Home - Dakar Lady Luck & The Lullabies — Young Stranger & Dance - Phillips Arlene Bailey — Conversation In The Street — Conlo Mighty Shaine — Call Me Sweet Things - Sue Junior Lewis — Where Do I Go From Here — Scepter Ray Fleming — Another Like You & For Better Or Worse - Purdy Little Anthony & Imperials — It'll Never Be The Same Again — UA Little Anthony & Imperials — The Change — UA Cortez & The Entertainers — Life — Your Town Richard Barbary — LP — A&M Jean Wells - Try Me And See - Calla Bits & Pieces - You Should Have Told Me - Paramount Ollie & The Nightingales - You're Leaving Me - Stax Edited February 1, 2015 by Sean Hampsey 3
boba Posted September 7, 2012 Author Posted September 7, 2012 thanks everyone for this incredible information
Jordirip Posted September 7, 2012 Posted September 7, 2012 Always been an important name to me, and one to look out for, since I first picked up a copy of Billy Harner "What About The Music"... crikey, nearly 40 years ago. His arrangements are usually fabulous. Pulled together a few which might be of interest to 'Northern Soul' fans where Horace was involved (see below). Pretty sure there will be others that I've missed. Would love to be a fly on the wall in that interview :0) What an INCREDIBLE career. Best, Sean Northern Related Tunes From Horace Ott Charades — Key To My Happiness — MGM Bobby Adams — That's The Kind Of Man I Am — Big Bee Billy Harner — What About The Music — Kama Sutra Billy Harner — A Message To My Babe — V-Tone Billy Harner — Everything's Hunky Dory — V-Tone Helena Ferguson — My Terms — Compass Helena Ferguson — The Loneliness Is Coming Again — Compass Celestrials — Keep Your Hands Off My Baby — RCA Celestrials — Chain Reaction — RCA Four Bars — Waiting on The Right Guy - Falew Jackie & The Umpires — Three Kinds Of Love — Sew City Sylvia St Clair — It Hurts To See You Happy — Brunswick Chris Hamilton — I've Got To Have Your Love — Bell Pierre Hunt — I've Got To Have Your love — Golden Wheels Jimmy Richards — My New Found Joy — A&M Milt Grayson — Your Old Standby - Derby Sharon Redd — Half As Much - Veep Jimmy Randolph — You Have To Lose Love — Honey Bee Gwen Kousar — The Hardway — Stork Chuck Jackson — Any Other Way — Wand Bobby Hebb — I Was A Man — Cadet Marie Knight — I Don't wanna Walk Alone & I Was Born Again — Diamond Marie Knight — Walk Away — Diamond Carolyn Franklin — Reality — RCA John Lucien — What A Difference Love Makes — Columbia Luv Co — Things Are Not The Same - Spring Bessie Banks — I Can't Make It Without You — Verve Perfections — And Then The Sun Went Down — Jubilee Skyliners — We've Got Love On Our Side — Tortoise Swordsmen — Grow On Love — RCA Jive Five — Happy Man - UA Mavis Staples — It Makes You Wanna Cry & What Happened To The Real Me — Volt Billy Adams — You And Me — Amy MVP's — Turning My Heartbeat Up — Buddah Don Covay — Mercy, Mercy - Rosemart Chantels — Indian Giver — Verve Geminis — Can't Let You Go — RCA Bobbettes — Happy Go Lucky Me - RCA Don Gardner — Prove It — Sack Mary Wheeler — Prove It - Calla Ike Lovely — Fools Hall Of Fame — Wand Brooks O'Dell — You Better Make Up Your Mind - Bell Magnificent Men — All Your Lovin's Gone To My Head — Capitol Lea Roberts — Don't Let Me Fall In Love Alone — UA Donald Height — Bow N'Arrow — Roulette Relations — Back To The Beach — Davy Jones Ronnie Wilson — Boy In A Crowd - Karate Dee Dee Warwick — We're Doing Fine — Mercury Dee Dee Warwick — Gotta Get A Hold Of Myself — Mercury Mary Wells — It Must Be — Jubilee Mary Wells — Dig The Way I Feel — Jubilee Le Vons — Everytime - Columbia Sylvia Robbins — Our Love — Sue 11th Commandment — Why Are You So Hard To Forget — Chess Ray Garvetta — I Can't Take It — La Vette Buddy Skipper — Restless Breed - Deesu Brenda Jo Harris — Play With Fire — Roulette Dee Clark — Don't walk Away From Me — VJ Ben E King — So Much Love - Atlantic Sam Waymon — You Can Count On Me — Ninandy Ben Monroe — Broken Home - Dakar Lady Luck & The Lullabies — Young Stranger & Dance - Phillips Arlene Bailey — Conversation In The Street — Conlo Mighty Shaine — Call Me Sweet Things - Sue Junior Lewis — Where Do I Go From Here — Scepter Ray Fleming — Another Like You & For Better Or Worse - Purdy Little Anthony & Imperials — It'll Never Be The Same Again — UA Little Anthony & Imperials — The Change — UA Cortez & The Entertainers — Life — Your Town Richard Barbary — LP — A&M Good work Sean. 2
The Yank Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 You can add "Say Something Nice To Me" by Bobby Kline to the list.
slimharpo Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 November 21, 1961 : One of the rare HANK BALLARD sessions outside of Cincinnati. In New York City he records "Miss Twister" and "Up And Away", both for the LP "The Twistin' Fools" (King LP 781), released in February 1962. "Hello Lover, Goodbye Tears" from this session remains unissued. Personnel includes Buddy Lucas (tenor sax), Mickey Baker (guitar), Ernie Hayes (piano) and Navarro Hastings (bass). Arranged by Horace Ott. This any good? 1
Tiberius Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 The Ambers - I Love You Baby / Now I'm In Trouble on Verve would be an obvious one if not mentioned before. He had a hand in writing songs eg one listed by Sean Hampsey above - Chris Hamilton's I've Got To Have Your Love. Great tune co-written by Mr Ott.
slimharpo Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 I recently read the Sam Cooke biography by Peter Guralnick and recalled he mentioned Horace Ott a few times. I've just checked the book again and it seems he was introduced to Sam by his 'cousin' Don Covay (He was also involved in Don Covay's 1973 album SuperDude). He arranged some syrupy albums for Sam but also did one of my favourite S.C. tracks Baby, Baby, Baby. Most surprising to me was that Horace Ott arranged the 'Cassius Clay' album on Columbia!
Sean Hampsey Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 He had a hand in writing songs eg one listed by Sean Hampsey above - Chris Hamilton's I've Got To Have Your Love. Great tune co-written by Mr Ott. That's true, Horace wrote (as well as arranged) many songs. It's how the Pierre Hunt version of the Chris Hamilton appeared, some years later. It was his record. Along with others, Horace wrote the following; Jackie Wilson - I'm Coming Back To You Jackie wilson - Years From Now Rocky Fellers - Like The Big Guys Do Dee Clark - Crossfire Time (along with Don Covay) Solomon Burke - You're Good For Me (along with Don Covay) Dee Dee Warwick - We're Doing Fine Jimmy Randolph — You Have To Lose Love Arthur Prysock - The Love I Need And (although he is not credited as such) he actually came up with the original lyric for the classic "Don't Let Me Be Understood" (Nina Simone, Animals etc.). Quite a talent! Sean
boba Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 I think it's crazy how much stuff he was involved with, not even just obscure groups, yet his story is not widely known. certain small regional label owners get much more recognition. 1
Ian Dewhirst Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) He also did Don Covay's "It's Better To Have". A magnificent career. He seems like a real safe pair of hands which is probably how he managed to evolve over 3 decades or so. Controversially I think the best arrangement he ever did was on a Gay Disco record - Denis Parker's "Like An Eagle". I actually think the production is a masterpiece and it's subsequently been ripped off on a couple of 90's dance hits. It's not really appropriate for Soul Source but here's the Todd Terje re-edit of the song anyway... Dennis Parker "Like An Eagle" https://youtu.be/2VM3LLxVb-Y A million miles from "Key To My Happiness" but that's what you call a diverse career. He's a major unsung hero in my book. Ian D Edited September 8, 2012 by Ian Dewhirst
Sean Hampsey Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Agree Bob. Arrangers don't get the props that label owners get, yet they are the true 'creatives' behind the records we all love. His pedigree is probably up there with the likes of Van McCoy, Bert De Coteaux, Mike Terry, Johnny Pate, Jack Ashford etc. He needs to know how much his work is loved, appreciated and respected amongst Soul fans, particularly here in the UK Sean 1
Sean Hampsey Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) He also did Don Covay's "It's Better To Have". A magnificent career. He seems like a real safe pair of hands which is probably how he managed to evolve over 3 decades or so. Controversially I think the best arrangement he ever did was on a Gay Disco record - Denis Parker's "Like An Eagle". I actually think the production is a masterpiece and it's subsequently been ripped off on a couple of 90's dance hits. It's not really appropriate for Soul Source but here is a clip of the song anyway... Dennis Parker "Like An Eagle" https://youtu.be/ujbSkWKTuHo A million miles from "Key To My Happiness" but that's what you call a diverse career. He's a major unsung hero in my book. Ian D Wasn't gonna mention the 'Gay Disco' tracks Ian. Hadn't included Village People 'YMCA' which Horace also arranged, amongst others in the late 70's. Appreciate you 'filling in the gaps' for us. Sean Edited September 8, 2012 by Sean Hampsey
Ian Dewhirst Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Agree Bob. Arrangers don't get the props that label owners get, yet they are the true 'creatives' behind the records we all love. His pedigree is probably up there with the likes of Van McCoy, Bert De Coteaux, Mike Terry, Johnny Pate, Jack Ashford etc. He needs to know how much his work is loved, appreciated and respected amongst Soul fans, particularly here in the UK Sean Seconded. Well, he's still around I think..... https://www.fyicomminc.com/jazzmen/horace-ott.htm Ian D
Ian Dewhirst Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) Wasn't gonna mention the 'Gay Disco' tracks Ian. Appreciate you 'filling in the gaps' for us. Sean I bet the Gay Disco stuff earnt him more than the previous 2 decades.I think he probably had more commercial success in the late 70's then previously. I just think he was a brilliant arranger with almost anything that was thrown at him. I mean, if you're gonna make a Richie Family record then do one like this, which is right up there with "Like An Eagle" LOL.... The Richie Family "Quiet Village" Right, better get back to the Northern ay......? Ian D Edited September 8, 2012 by Ian Dewhirst
boba Posted September 8, 2012 Author Posted September 8, 2012 Seconded. Well, he's still around I think..... https://www.fyicommin.../horace-ott.htm Ian D It would be hard for someone I know to interview him otherwise
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