Betty Boo Say It Isn't So

[Pete S]

As a saturday nite regular Betty Boo was first played circa 1979 and became huge during 1979 and was released/pressed on Grapevine Records in 1979. Without looking was it not also pressed on the This Is Northern Soul LP via RCA Grapevine UK. As Tim Fletcher has clearly stated.

You claim Ginger Taylor was playing this !! Incorrect Martyn - Ginger was a full on oldies dee jay and was so out of the loop at this period of time, regarding picking up anything new and demanding around 77. Ginger very much like Soul Sam (1977 period) was banging out a safe set of repeated 45's like Burning Sensation, My World Is On Fire, etc etc and did get a guest spot at the Casino during 1978/79 which would not include Betty Boo, prior to it's release.

From the article I wrote for Record Collector in 1992, which was checked over by Mr Anderson who provided much of the information about licensing etc..

GRP 125 BETTY BOO:

"Say It Isn't So"Â

*****

No, it's not the young lady who was "ËœDoing The Do' a while back, but a Detroit teenager who cut demos for Popcorn Wylie in 1966-67. No releases followed, but "Say It Isnt so"Â turned up on acetate in mid-1977, becoming one of the year's biggest (and best) sounds. Several other unreleased items surfaced then, including new vocals to popular Northern standards like Tommy Neal's "ËœGoin' To A Happening"Â and Stanley Mitchell's "Get It Baby"Â, along with recordings from Wylie himself. Boo was a member of the Adorables who cut a super Northern disc for Golden World, "Ooh Boy"Â, with Pat and Diane Lewis and Betty's sister Jackie.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Pete S

[Guest Nick Harrison]

May give you late 78, but have never heard it on any of your much valued 77 educational musical refro postings.

[Pete S]

May give you late 78, but have never heard it on any of your much valued 77 educational musical refro postings.

I think I've only ever put up maybe 3 live 1977 Wigan tapes, that's because I only ever converted that many, I"ve got a boxfull that I could do but several I haven't put up because of the embarrassing conversations that got picked up

I honestly can't be bothered to go through a load of tapes to find one track, if you don't want to believe me then it doesn't really matter, it's not exactly important and sunday lunch needs cooking

Edited September 9, 2012 by Pete S

[Guest Nick Harrison]

From the article I wrote for Record Collector in 1992, which was checked over by Mr Anderson who provided much of the information about licensing etc..

GRP 125 BETTY BOO:

"Say It Isn't So"Â

*****

No, it's not the young lady who was "ËœDoing The Do' a while back, but a Detroit teenager who cut demos for Popcorn Wylie in 1966-67. No releases followed, but "Say It Isnt so"Â turned up on acetate in mid-1977, becoming one of the year's biggest (and best) sounds. Several other unreleased items surfaced then, including new vocals to popular Northern standards like Tommy Neal's "ËœGoin' To A Happening"Â and Stanley Mitchell's "Get It Baby"Â, along with recordings from Wylie himself. Boo was a member of the Adorables who cut a super Northern disc for Golden World, "Ooh Boy"Â, with Pat and Diane Lewis and Betty's sister Jackie.

Ok Pete I've taken a knock ............I very sure I will be all the better for it - regarding dated facts.

[TOAD]

phew i thought id lost the plot ? Nick is correct ! Ginger was an oldies dj

[Soul Shrews]

Don't wish to upset anyone here but I was amazed to read it had been played before '79

I didn't got to Wigan untill the Sat after the 5th anniversary and then went pretty much weekly. For a few weeks in "79 it seemed Richard Searling always started his spot with Betty Boo, Cecil Washington and Vickie Baines. As he was playing mostly newies on Sat nights I presumed Betty was getting her first plays.

Think the price for the acetate was way over the top but if someone wants it bad enough and can afford it then good luck to 'em

Cheers Paul

[Premium Stuff]

Think the price for the acetate was way over the top but if someone wants it bad enough and can afford it then good luck to 'em

Cheers Paul

The thing is John Manship's auction works on a proxy basis in increments.

This means there were at least two people who were prepared to pay this kind of amount - maybe there were more bidders willing to do so.

The only thing that split them was the value of the final bid increment.

Cheers

Richard

[Guest Nick Harrison]

phew i thought id lost the plot ? Nick is correct ! Ginger was an oldies dj

I'll take one for the team - Tim . At least we were both correct with the Ginger oldies theory !!

[Ernie Andrews]

Ive got a tape somewhere with it on from wigan and Im sure its late 77 or early 78 but Im 54 now and I can have senior moments like the rest of us- Im sure I had a discussuion with Richard when he was working for RCA about the grapevine stuff but again its so long ago Think we had the conversation in makro! God its so long ago but again £600 for a a 70s acetate that was cut for the impending issue of anorthern identified label for the masses is crazy!

[Pete S]

Ive got a tape somewhere with it on from wigan and Im sure its late 77 or early 78 but Im 54 now and I can have senior moments like the rest of us-

No Steve you are right, I am right, and Martyn is right. It was discovered and played in 1977, there's no argument about it: we were actually there, I recodrded it, someone else recorded it, not sure why there's even an argument about it, you can say what you like about me but I'm rarely wrong on when records were played at Wigan during the period I was going. Was big in early 78 and released on Grapevine. Surprised it wasn't on the first Grapevine lp which came out in jan or feb 78 I think, as hanky Panky and Spaceland were, and this was definitely part of that batch of sounds supplied by John A via Popcorn Wylie.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Pete S

[Guest martyn]

As a saturday nite regular Betty Boo was first played circa 1979 and became huge during 1979 and was released/pressed on Grapevine Records in 1979. Without looking was it not also pressed on the This Is Northern Soul LP via RCA Grapevine UK. As Tim Fletcher has clearly stated.

You claim Ginger Taylor was playing this !! Incorrect Martyn - Ginger was a full on oldies dee jay and was so out of the loop at this period of time, regarding picking up anything new and demanding around 77. Ginger very much like Soul Sam (1977 period) was banging out a safe set of repeated 45's like Burning Sensation, My World Is On Fire, etc etc and did get a guest spot at the Casino during 1978/79 which would not include Betty Boo, prior to it's release.

That is the most ridiculous post I have seen for a long while.You were obviously not going in 77 or you wouldn't spout such tripe......The Fabuletts, The Servicemen (are you angry), Burning Bush, The Ellingtons, Derek & Ray, Billy Arnell, 7th Wonder, Flamming Emeralds, Lovelittes, to name but a few were all being played as newies by Ginger or Sam in the summer of 77...As was Betty Boo in the autumn of 77 by Ginger. Get your facts right before calling me a liar.

[Pete S]

That is the most ridiculous post I have seen for a long while.You were obviously not going in 77 or you wouldn't spout such tripe......The Fabuletts, The Servicemen (are you angry), Burning Bush, The Ellingtons, Derek & Ray, Billy Arnell, 7th Wonder, Flamming Emeralds, Lovelittes, to name but a few were all being played as newies by Ginger or Sam in the summer of 77...As was Betty Boo in the autumn of 77 by Ginger. Get your facts right before calling me a liar.

Absolutely spot on. I think Ginger actually discovered Burning Bush.

[Guest martyn]

phew i thought id lost the plot ? Nick is correct ! Ginger was an oldies dj

Did you ever hear Ginger play out at St Ives in 77 ?.....No, I thought not

[Guest martyn]

Absolutely spot on. I think Ginger actually discovered Burning Bush.

Can't get my head around this argument Pete, I have stated a fact. I was there, as were you. Dave (through incarsaration only) & the other two obviously were not, or they wouldnt be making themselves look silly..........Its like me trying to argue with Dave about sounds atThe Torch or The Wheel - I'd look a right twat coz I wouldnt have a clue as I wasnt there !

[Pete S]

Can't get my head around this argument Pete, I have stated a fact. I was there, as were you. Dave (through incarsaration only) & the other two obviously were not, or they wouldnt be making themselves look silly..........Its like me trying to argue with Dave about sounds atThe Torch or The Wheel - I'd look a right twat coz I wouldnt have a clue as I wasnt there !

Nor me.

There was nothing to stop Richard playing Betty Boo in 1979 after it came out on Grapevine, I'm not saying that, just that it came across with a batch of unissued stuff and was played there and then in late 1977.

[KevH]

Definately before '79.I hardly went around that time,and BB was already a well known Searling spin.74-78 was my time.

[Agentsmith]

Nor me.

There was nothing to stop Richard playing Betty Boo in 1979 after it came out on Grapevine, I'm not saying that, just that it came across with a batch of unissued stuff and was played there and then in late 1977.

pete you are absolutely 100% RIGHT about the 77 exposure, i remember richard making a rare journey south and playing it at the wulfrun hall, wolverhampton, i definitely remember him having the precise acetate, though if there were more than one of these rca promo's you'd have to ask him. just out of interest...he's playing an rca promo of the tamangoes....imagine what THAT would fetch at auction, regardless of the washpan release?

....incidentally, as an aside to this...can i just congratulate everyone on this post for the infinitely colourful banter and ribbing that im sure, preserves ALL our sanities!!

[Guest martyn]

Nor me.

There was nothing to stop Richard playing Betty Boo in 1979 after it came out on Grapevine, I'm not saying that, just that it came across with a batch of unissued stuff and was played there and then in late 1977.

Yep, emi's from a master tape I would guess. Its obvious Richard would be playing it again in 79 prior to its Grapevine release though I wouldn't know 1st hand as I stopped doing Wigan between mid 78 & early 80 as I prefered Yate at the time (less joe 90 & barb heads)

As for Burning Bush Ginger first played it June 77 covered as The Gems. He was given/bought it at St Ives by the bloke who discovered it .....Got a feeling it was one of the Letchworth crowd but not sure about that - Dave might know (? )

[Soul Shrews]

My Grapevine 45 has 1979 release date

Cheers Paul

[Guest martyn]

My Grapevine 45 has 1979 release date

Cheers Paul

It would do, thats when it was released mate

[Soul Shrews]

Yes but what I don't get is why would Richard Searling be playing it at Wigan in 79 ? There were more "oldies'(if thats what Betty Boo was) released on Grapevine that year and he certainly didn't play them in his newies spots Sat night

Cheers Paul

[Guest martyn]

Yes but what I don't get is why would Richard Searling be playing it at Wigan in 79 ? There were more "oldies'(if thats what Betty Boo was) released on Grapevine that year and he certainly didn't play them in his newies spots Sat night

Cheers Paul

I havent a clue. Betty Boo would hardly have been an oldie in 79 but was well past its peak by mid 78

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Yes but what I don't get is why would Richard Searling be playing it at Wigan in 79 ? There were more "oldies'(if thats what Betty Boo was) released on Grapevine that year and he certainly didn't play them in his newies spots Sat night

Cheers Paul

Umm - Lester Tipton, Stemmons Express, Carol Anderson, Del Capris ?

[Ian J]

Ian Clarke listed a Betty Boo - Say It Isn't So RCA acetate for Offers sometime last year. Emailed him to find out what offers he'd received. It had sold for £126

[Guest Nick Harrison]

pete you are absolutely 100% RIGHT about the 77 exposure, i remember richard making a rare journey south and playing it at the wulfrun hall, wolverhampton, i definitely remember him having the precise acetate, though if there were more than one of these rca promo's you'd have to ask him. just out of interest...he's playing an rca promo of the tamangoes....imagine what THAT would fetch at auction, regardless of the washpan release?

....incidentally, as an aside to this...can i just congratulate everyone on this post for the infinitely colourful banter and ribbing that im sure, preserves ALL our sanities!!

BUT then someone like you would post the above after the fetch has gone dry. Couldn't get near Richard at the last Dunk dayer as you had your hand so deeply seated inside his pants.

[Ian J]

Ian Clarke listed a Betty Boo - Say It Isn't So RCA acetate for Offers sometime last year. Emailed him to find out what offers he'd received. It had sold for £126

[Pete S]

Umm - Lester Tipton, Stemmons Express, Carol Anderson, Del Capris ?

Stemmons Express not released on Grapevine.

Del Capris 1978 spin.

Tipton / Anderson 79 spins.

[Soul Shrews]

I havent a clue. Betty Boo would hardly have been an oldie in 79 but was well past its peak by mid 78

Past its peak ? Back then.6 weeks it was an oldie !

Umm - Lester Tipton, Stemmons Express, Carol Anderson, Del Capris ?

All newies back then Nick, well not sure of Stemmons Express ....but did he play it Sat all nights ???

CheersPaul

[Soul Shrews]

I also remember all Wigan DJs starting their spot with it the week before its release.

Same thing happened with The Del Capris (Construction)

Cheers Paul

Edited September 9, 2012 by soul shrews

[macca]

The comment about Ginger being an oldies only DJ in 1977 is laughable. I heard him playing the Isley Brothers, Livin' In The Life, a new release and more in keeping with what was going down in the Mecca that year, which would have sounded most incongruous alongside Chubby Checker, The Superiors, or even alongside undeniable 77 "newies" like Paula Durante, Florence Devore etc. Perhaps he felt that St. Ives was a more open-minded venue and gave flight to his imagination accordingly. I also remember hearing the Betty Boo instrumental at that venue, which, as others have pointed out, closed in November 77. By the time the Fleet opened its doors June 78, Betty Boo was a floor filler and I remember dancing to it there too. I'm with Martyn and Pete on this one.

[Guest martyn]

The comment about Ginger being an oldies only DJ in 1977 is laughable. I heard him playing the Isley Brothers, Livin' In The Life, a new release and more in keeping with what was going down in the Mecca that year, which would have sounded most incongruous alongside Chubby Checker, The Superiors, or even alongside undeniable 77 "newies" like Paula Durante, Florence Devore etc. Perhaps he felt that St. Ives was a more open-minded venue and gave flight to his imagination accordingly. I also remember hearing the Betty Boo instrumental at that venue, which, as others have pointed out, closed in November 77. By the time the Fleet opened its doors June 78, Betty Boo was a floor filler and I remember dancing to it there too. I'm with Martyn and Pete on this one.

Also remember him playing 'Theme from The Big Time - Smokey Robinson' as a new release....Not to mention Center City which was huge as a new release & still getting spins in the main room in the summer of 77....Like I said Mackie had they have been there they wouldn't be making clowns of themselves

[Guest martyn]

Past its peak ? Back then.6 weeks it was an oldie !

Fair call

[TOAD]

since youve had a go at me heres a reply Ginger on a empty sat nite circa 1980 at the casino ALL OLDIES FACT

[Ady Croasdell]

You claim Ginger Taylor was playing this !! Incorrect Martyn - Ginger was a full on oldies dee jay and was so out of the loop at this period of time, regarding picking up anything new and demanding around 77. Ginger very much like Soul Sam (1977 period) was banging out a safe set of repeated 45's like Burning Sensation, My World Is On Fire, etc etc and did get a guest spot at the Casino during 1978/79 which would not include Betty Boo, prior to it's release.

I think you're under estimating Ginger, he had Tamala Lewis and the Ad Libs off me when they were hot and broke Burning Bush after clearing the floor at St Ives but stuck with it so he was far from playing safe. I have no idea about Betty Boo Boo mind.

Edited September 9, 2012 by ady croasdell

[Ady Croasdell]

Absolutely spot on. I think Ginger actually discovered Burning Bush.

So you don't read my Kent sleevenotes any more Pete; they're a great cure to insomnia.

[Ady Croasdell]

As for Burning Bush Ginger first played it June 77 covered as The Gems. He was given/bought it at St Ives by the bloke who discovered it .....Got a feeling it was one of the Letchworth crowd but not sure about that - Dave might know (? )

Me me me me! I ain't discovered too many real records, I need to claim them all.

[Pete S]

So you don't read my Kent sleevenotes any more Pete; they're a great cure to insomnia.

No I love them but I have lost the capability to digest information.

I'll rephrase it to say that Ginger is the person associated with first playing Burning Bush

[Pete S]

Just going off the subject for a second, I've been told that there's an alternate version of Burning Bush, same backing, different song, anyone know anything about this?

[maslar]

Very interesting thread and lots of information. To me (as someone looking in at an era slightly before I went to WC ) it looks simple: Taking Pete S' testimony as a starting point (being in the room and taping it is obviously a good starting point). It would seem to me to go as follows.:

SIIS was first played by RS in late 77. It was played as a newie every night, once a week at WC right through 78 and into 79. nothing unusual there. For example "I don't like to lose"Â was played for much longer by RS. So it was a top newie for about 18 months. It never obtained "oldie"Â status because for whatever reason Grapevine finally decided to release it as a single in the late summer of 79 and nobody bothered playing it after that. Sometime in the months after it was also included on the compilation "Sound Of The Grapevine"Â (where I first heard it) — Side 2 track 4.

So that's it; 18 months a newie and not played as an oldie.

However, just to reaffirm, it took me about five minutes on google to find this:

Dave McCadden, The Beat fanzine Feb 1979:

"I've always had a built in resistance to tailor mades and records where there are no originals to be had, and I've cursed many of the Wylie productions ( Hanky Panky / Down in the dumps ) for that very reason but I almost throw any doubts out of the window when I hear the brilliant BETTY BOO "SAY IT ISN'T SO" . . story is that Sam's had an acetate for a few years but I ain't heard him play the bleeder, if that's true Sam you want whipping, as this is a great voc/inst that Rich has been hammering for a long time,

"

For a long time .. in Feb 1979.

[Ady Croasdell]

To answer the other questions. There have been a handful of white label promos of about 70% of all Kent releases. Some of the early ones were from Germany with some German technical print and sometimes I'd add handwriting especially for my own copies. They are mainly white label test pressings which I sometimes wrote the details on, a very would have my colleague the production manager's writing.

We only did demos of the first two Kent 45s, red A labels and the 12" modern soul promo with Art Gentry which was about a 90 press.

[Ady Croasdell]

So that's it; 18 months a newie and not played as an oldie.

I've been playing it as an oldie for the last ten years on a Grapevine demo. Does the 100 Club count even though it's in the south?

[maslar]

I've been playing it as an oldie for the last ten years on a Grapevine demo. Does the 100 Club count even though it's in the south?

Oops, sorry I didn't phase that very well. I meant in the time after it's UK release - really in response to a previous post that it wasn't a newie after a few months,. For example I can't remember hearing it played at a WC Oldies night the following year. Maybe it was.

[Guest David Ryan]

Fantastic record, I blooming well love it! I played it a while back at a local event and it completely cleared the floor....all except for one chap who danced his *rse off to it completely on his own in the middle of the huge dance floor....When the record ended he clapped so furiously, I honestly think it was a 'protest clap' at everyone who didn't dance or appreciate it.....

.....Or I could be talking b*llocks.....

...Had to be there really, I know what I mean.How on earth could it clear the floor??!!

All the best,

Len

[Ady Croasdell]

No worries sir, I'm touch

Oops, sorry I didn't phase that very well. I meant in the time after it's UK release - really in response to a previous post that it wasn't a newie after a few months,. For example I can't remember hearing it played at a WC Oldies night the following year. Maybe it was.

No worries sir, i think I'm going through the change!

[Soul Shrews]

Umm - Lester Tipton,

Was a Soul Sam play @ the time ? First time I heard it was via Sam @ Wigan anyway

Cheers Paul

[Len]

How on earth could it clear the floor??!!

"Welcome to Northamptonshire - The Roses of The Shires!"

Thanks for remembering my original post

All the best,

Len.

[Len]

No worries sir, i think I'm going through the change!

Again?!!!

All the best,

Len

Edited September 9, 2012 by LEN

[Len]

I've been playing it as an oldie for the last ten years on a Grapevine demo. Does the 100 Club count even though it's in the south?

....and I shall be playing it again at 'an event' this Saturday night and have to admit, this thread has reminded me to do so - What a record! (Which is the important thing)

All the best,

Len

[Guest David Ryan]

To answer the other questions. There have been a handful of white label promos of about 70% of all Kent releases. Some of the early ones were from Germany with some German technical print and sometimes I'd add handwriting especially for my own copies. They are mainly white label test pressings which I sometimes wrote the details on, a very would have my colleague the production manager's writing.

We only did demos of the first two Kent 45s, red A labels and the 12" modern soul promo with Art Gentry which was about a 90 press.

Four tees one more chance perhaps?

Edited September 9, 2012 by David Ryan

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Was a Soul Sam play @ the time ? First time I heard it was via Sam @ Wigan anyway

Cheers Paul

Eh up Paul - Richard and Nev Wherry then later Sam.