Jesse Fisher Album

[Roburt]

Back in the early 70's, Dunn Pearson & his group 9th Street Exit took Jesse Fisher into a Cleveland studio and enough material for an album was cut.

The project was shopped around but no 'backer' / label instantly came forward to fund or release the proposed LP ('I Can't Stop Loving You'). To try to drum up interest, some 45's were released but the LP never did escape in 'commercial quantities' (though Dunn does seem to recall the tracks being finished and an album readied for release -- perhaps a 'test pressing' was made).

Anyway, not too long after that, Dunn went on the road with the O'Jays and then Jesse passed away .... so the whole project 'withered away'.

However, with all the current interest in the Cleveland Soul scene (60's / 70's stuff), Numero's recent-ish releases and Lou Ragland's proposed big live concert back in 'Cleveland-town', it seems that the guys have realised just what they had laid-down back then.

Dunn Pearson (he's on Facebook) thinks he still has the old master tapes (he's currently searching them out) and it seems he is interested in licensing the tracks for CD (or vinyl) release.

I'm sure the likes of Numero will show some interest in putting these Jesse Fisher (Way Out / So-Jamm) tracks out, maybe a UK label might also show some interest .....

Edited August 21, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Two tracks destined to be on the album release escaped on this 45 ........

[Lfcjunkie]

count me in for a copy if and when it comes out i hope there's enugh feedback to convince them to get it out asap!!

athe best with it

dave L

[Sjclement]

I hope they re master Your Not loving a Beginner, all the copies I've ever heard suffer from some distortion.

[Steve G]

Yes no one has ever seen a Jesse Fisher album, it would be great if they put it out.

[Lfcjunkie]

I hope they re master Your Not loving a Beginner, all the copies I've ever heard suffer from some distortion.

mine doesn't

dave

[Tfk]

Back in the early 70's, Dunn Pearson & his group 9th Street Exit took Jesse Fisher into a Cleveland studio and enough material for an album was cut.

The project was shopped around but no 'backer' / label instantly came forward to fund or release the proposed LP ('I Can't Stop Loving You'). To try to drum up interest, some 45's were released but the LP never did escape in 'commercial quantities' (though Dunn does seem to recall the tracks being finished and an album readied for release -- perhaps a 'test pressing' was made).

Anyway, not too long after that, Dunn went on the road with the O'Jays and then Jesse passed away .... so the whole project 'withered away'.

However, with all the current interest in the Cleveland Soul scene (60's / 70's stuff), Numero's recent-ish releases and Lou Ragland's proposed big live concert back in 'Cleveland-town', it seems that the guys have realised just what they had laid-down back then.

Dunn Pearson (he's on Facebook) thinks he still has the old master tapes (he's currently searching them out) and it seems he is interested in licensing the tracks for CD (or vinyl) release.

I'm sure the likes of Numero will show some interest in putting these Jesse Fisher (Way Out / So-Jamm) tracks, maybe a UK label might also show some interest .....

Great news Roburt-this is what keeps things fascinating and interesting in 2012 - knowing that theres still plenty of unissued and unknown sessions out there.

best tfk

[Roburt]

A live show Jesse Fisher + 9th Street Exit undertook back in 1974 ............

[Glynthornhill]

Back around 1982 / 3 period managed to get hold of some ' unreleased ' Jesse Fisher material from Richard Little ( owner of the label that released Doc Peabody - Here Without You ) - the quality was a little rough but still have the cassette tapes in the loft somewhere ... think there was three tracks all slow and soulful , and incidentally a unreleased Doc Peabody that would be a storming Northern Soul dancer .....

[Guest OSCARP]

Did anything become of unisssued Jesse Fisher Album and Doc Peabody tracks, Come on Ady this should be right up your street, along with Four Wonders and Imperial wonders & solid foundation material.

[Sebastian]

I hope they re master Your Not loving a Beginner, all the copies I've ever heard suffer from some distortion.

"Your/You're Not Loving A Beginner" was released twice with very different mixes on them.

One of them, supposedly the first issue, exists with multi-coloured AND white/red labels. Both have got W 104A matrix and "Your" mis-spelling on the label. The sound is super-compressed and sounds distorted when played with some styluses.

The other one, supposedly the second issue, only exists with white/red labels as far as I know. It has got W 104A3 matrix and "You're" correct spelling on the label. It has got a much clearer sound, but mastered with almost too much dynamics. The vocal is mixed much louder than the backing and it doesn't really gel.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Sebastian

[Ady Croasdell]

John, kindly put me in touch with Lou and the Way Out geezers, I spent an odd day with them. I'll follow it up.

Ady

[Benji]

it doesn't really gel.

Sebastian, could you explain a bit what you mean by that?

Seems like both mixes have pro's and con's. Which one is the one to have?

[Kev John]

I hope they re master Your Not loving a Beginner, all the copies I've ever heard suffer from some distortion.

HI The White Label Red text does not suffer from sound distortion

well the one i've got

atb Kev

Edited December 22, 2012 by soulghost

[Kev John]

"Your/You're Not Loving A Beginner" was released twice with very different mixes on them.

One of them, supposedly the first issue, exists with multi-coloured AND white/red labels. Both have got W 104A matrix and "Your" mis-spelling on the label. The sound is super-compressed and sounds distorted when played with some styluses.

The other one, supposedly the second issue, only exists with white/red labels as far as I know. It has got W 104A3 matrix and "You're" correct spelling on the label. It has got a much clearer sound, but mastered with almost too much dynamics. The vocal is mixed much louder than the backing and it doesn't really gel.

Top left one (Your )Should have an italic ARP stamp then W-104-A etched in then Bm etched in also a curvy line through the B

That's the 1 iv'e got

atb Kev

Edited December 18, 2012 by soulghost

[Sebastian]

HI The White Label Red text does not suffer from sound distortion never heard Multi coloured one played out so it could be that one that has sound destortion

atb Kev

As explained above there are two different release with white/red label with different matrixes and label variations.

The one with W 104A3 matrix plays without distortion but is mixed badly (in my opinion).

The one with W 104A plays with more or less distortion seemingly depending on which stylus you play it with. Or perhaps it was just a case of the stampers being used too long and "later" copies in the pressing run suffer from bad sound quality?

I've had three copies of the W 104A issue. Two of them have played with bad distortion but the one I have now is the cleanest sounding one yet.

[Sebastian]

Sebastian, could you explain a bit what you mean by that?

Seems like both mixes have pro's and con's. Which one is the one to have?

Yes, both have got pro's and con's. Hard to explain what I mean with that it doesn't "gel", it's just that on the W 104A3 mix it sounds as if Jesse sings "on top" of the music and the music is way back in the background. Almost as if it hasn't been compressed at all. There is no punch to the music, but the vocals are clear.

The one to have in my opinion is the W 104A version and keep buying it until you find a non-distorting copy of it.

The W 104A3 sounds very thin and crap when played at a venue.

Below are soundclips of both so you can compare them for yourself. Both files are recorded using the exact same equipment and set-up.

W 104A version:

https://www.shingaling.com/W104A.mp3

W 104A3 version:

https://www.shingaling.com/W104A3.mp3

As you can see below, the WAV files also look very different.

W 104A version:

W 104A3 version:

Edited December 18, 2012 by Sebastian

[KevH]

Quite happy with my multi colored's sound.

[Kev John]

Sounds like only half the record there very tinny don't like A3 recording i'll keep the 1 i've got thanks :thumbup:

thanks for sound clips Seb :thumbsup:

atb

Kev

[Garethx]

Pretty sure both mixes of this were pressed at ARP.

[Sjclement]

As explained above there are two different release with white/red label with different matrixes and label variations.

The one with W 104A3 matrix plays without distortion but is mixed badly (in my opinion).

The one with W 104A plays with more or less distortion seemingly depending on which stylus you play it with. Or perhaps it was just a case of the stampers being used too long and "later" copies in the pressing run suffer from bad sound quality?

I've had three copies of the W 104A issue. Two of them have played with bad distortion but the one I have now is the cleanest sounding one yet.

But the general opinion of the red&whites is that they are the 1st issue, so why a later issue on a red&white.

[Benji]

But the general opinion of the red&whites is that they are the 1st issue, so why a later issue on a red&white.

R&W first press sells out. They re-press it on R&W labels and diff. mix, label gets picked up for national distribution around the same time, during re-press the change the label to the national distribution multi-colour one. would that make sense?

[Tfk]

R&W first press sells out. They re-press it on R&W labels and diff. mix, label gets picked up for national distribution around the same time, during re-press the change the label to the national distribution multi-colour one. would that make sense?

Great info re Jesse Fisher "Your not loving a beginner"..... but what about Bill Spoons original take of YNLAB ?

So are we to see Jesse Fisher unissued album out soon ? tis essential and achievable- hey just look at what a fantastic job Ady and Kent records did getting the awesome Darrow Fletcher previously unissued Crossover Records album out !!!! ....

.ktf tfk

[Sebastian]

R&W first press sells out. They re-press it on R&W labels and diff. mix, label gets picked up for national distribution around the same time, during re-press the change the label to the national distribution multi-colour one. would that make sense?

That doesn't make sense to me because the "second" mix (W 104A3) doesn't exist on multi-coloured label as far as I know. Surely the second/newest mix would be used for the nationally distributed 45?

I think that the order of the releases are:

W 104A - red/white

W 104A - multi-coloured

W 104A3 - red/white

Why would the "A3" mix have been done before the "A" one? Also, the "A3" mix has got the correct title ("You're..."). The "A" mix doesn't ("Your..." on both red/white and multicoloured). I assume that the title was corrected for the later "A3" issue. It could ofcourse be that the "A3" mix is the first one, but I doubt it.

It wouldn't surprise me if there was a test-pressing of an "A2" mix as well, but it was scrapped due to some reason before making it out to the public.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Sebastian

[Benji]

Sebastian,

I wasn't specific enough. My theory would make (more) sense if we assume that A3 mix was first:

A3 red/white

A red/white

A m/c

[Benji]

Great info re Jesse Fisher "Your not loving a beginner"..... but what about Bill Spoons original take of YNLAB ?

wow, original take? never heard that before. Soundclip anyone anywhere?

So are we to see Jesse Fisher unissued album out soon ? tis essential ....

fully agree. Does anyone know more?

[Sebastian]

Sebastian,

I wasn't specific enough. My theory would make (more) sense if we assume that A3 mix was first:

A3 red/white

A red/white

A m/c

OK. That could be the order of release. It still doesn't make sense to me that "A3" would come before "A" though.

Also it is weird that there suddenly is a spelling mistake on the labels that has got the "A" mixes. One would think that it was corrected for the "A3" release.

Anyway, we will never get to the bottom of this unless someone involved in the recording/pressing comes on here and settles it. And it doesn't really matter, I guess. Both mixes sound more or less crap most of the time. A pity because it's a good tune.

I just wanted to highlight the fact that there are two very different mixes because I've not seen that fact mentioned much, just a lot of people saying/writing that the "first issue" is the one with red/white label. And that just doesn't make sense seeing as there are two different red/white issues...

[Tfk]

wow, original take? never heard that before. Soundclip anyone anywhere?

fully agree. Does anyone know more?

HI Benji

hope alls we....the info was on the sleeve notes for the Bill Spoon album that Soul Junction released :-

Words from Bill Spoon.....

After my return from the Army in June 1965 I was reunited with Riki Sonda and he introduced me to Leroy Elie, with whom he had been singing with during my absence. The three of us soon realized that we the gist of a competent vocal outfit if only we could add a fourth voice. So in August 1965, John ”Cornbread” Berry became the fourth member of our group. Because we all had day jobs our performances were limited to nightclubs at the weekend only. Riki was a quality control foreman at the Cleveland, Chrysler Automotive Plant, Leroy was a commercial electrical and mechanical architect. John was a manager at a metal photo processing plant and I was a criminal investigator for the state of Ohio.

In November 1965 with the help of Lou Ragland, the four of us now using the name of the “Soul Notes” signed for Lester Johnson’s Way-Out label. Although several tracks were recorded only two 45’s were released “How Long Will It Last/Don’t Make Me Beg “(Way-Out 101) and “How Long Will It Last/I Got Everything You Need” (Way-Out 106). The intended flip to “I Got Everything you need” was a song entitled “I’ve Been Waiting For Love” which had been by written by myself, John Washington and “Riki” Dannison. We had even gone as far as recording it but for reasons which remained unknown to us the song was pulled and replaced with a re-release of “How Long Will It Last”.

“I’ve Been Waiting For Love” was later released under the different title of “Your Not Loving A Beginner” being recorded by Richard Fishers younger brother Jesse, and with some of the song original Lyric’s having been reworked by James Calloway.

Reet I know a man that has a sound file for the Bill Spoon/SoulNotes original take, but not sure if he will let us have it ? will see what we can do but will not make any promises etc

ktf tfk

Edited December 19, 2012 by tfk

[Garethx]

R&W first press sells out. They re-press it on R&W labels and diff. mix, label gets picked up for national distribution around the same time, during re-press the change the label to the national distribution multi-colour one. would that make sense?

The bit about national distribution is a red herring here. Although the magenta / yellow label superficially looks like those used in the MGM-distributed phase of the company's history it isn't quite the same. I would say none of these releases of the Jesse Fisher 45 were distributed by a larger record label on the one hand or by a truly national distributor on the other.

Sebastian's posts above are illuminating as I had never joined the dots about the A3 and A mixes before. The differences in the mixes are really striking.

[Roburt]

John, kindly put me in touch with Lou and the Way Out geezers, I spent an odd day with them. I'll follow it up.

Ady

Ady, I have sent you a pm message.

[Dave Pinch]

That doesn't make sense to me because the "second" mix (W 104A3) doesn't exist on multi-coloured label as far as I know. Surely the second/newest mix would be used for the nationally distributed 45?

I think that the order of the releases are:

W 104A - red/white

W 104A - multi-coloured

W 104A3 - red/white

Why would the "A3" mix have been done before the "A" one? Also, the "A3" mix has got the correct title ("You're..."). The "A" mix doesn't ("Your..." on both red/white and multicoloured). I assume that the title was corrected for the later "A3" issue. It could ofcourse be that the "A3" mix is the first one, but I doubt it.

It wouldn't surprise me if there was a test-pressing of an "A2" mix as well, but it was scrapped due to some reason before making it out to the public.

i dont agree.i think the multi coloured is the first issue

[Dave Pinch]

HI Benji

hope alls we....the info was on the sleeve notes for the Bill Spoon album that Soul Junction released :-

Words from Bill Spoon.....

After my return from the Army in June 1965 I was reunited with Riki Sonda and he introduced me to Leroy Elie, with whom he had been singing with during my absence. The three of us soon realized that we the gist of a competent vocal outfit if only we could add a fourth voice. So in August 1965, John ”Cornbread” Berry became the fourth member of our group. Because we all had day jobs our performances were limited to nightclubs at the weekend only. Riki was a quality control foreman at the Cleveland, Chrysler Automotive Plant, Leroy was a commercial electrical and mechanical architect. John was a manager at a metal photo processing plant and I was a criminal investigator for the state of Ohio.

In November 1965 with the help of Lou Ragland, the four of us now using the name of the “Soul Notes” signed for Lester Johnson’s Way-Out label. Although several tracks were recorded only two 45’s were released “How Long Will It Last/Don’t Make Me Beg “(Way-Out 101) and “How Long Will It Last/I Got Everything You Need” (Way-Out 106). The intended flip to “I Got Everything you need” was a song entitled “I’ve Been Waiting For Love” which had been by written by myself, John Washington and “Riki” Dannison. We had even gone as far as recording it but for reasons which remained unknown to us the song was pulled and replaced with a re-release of “How Long Will It Last”.

“I’ve Been Waiting For Love” was later released under the different title of “Your Not Loving A Beginner” being recorded by Richard Fishers younger brother Jesse, and with some of the song original Lyric’s having been reworked by James Calloway.

Reet I know a man that has a sound file for the Bill Spoon/SoulNotes original take, but not sure if he will let us have it ? will see what we can do but will not make any promises etc

ktf tfk

the soul notes 45`s wern`t issued til 1969 as they tie in with the mgm distribution numbers on 45s

[Sebastian]

i dont agree.i think the multi coloured is the first issue

That might very well be the case. In that case the order would be:

W 104A - multi-coloured

W 104A - red/white

W 104A3 - red/white

[Dave Pinch]

That might very well be the case. In that case the order would be:

W 104A - multi-coloured

W 104A - red/white

W 104A3 - red/white

one thing we all agree on is they are all original vinyl.........which is nice

[Roburt]

Heard back from my Cleveland contacts & it seems that a deal on the Way Out stuff is still possible (people still around who hold the rights).

All it needs now is someone who wants to license the tracks and a fair portion of luck ...........

The master tapes for the unissued stuff has to be 'found' in the studio vaults and have still to be in 'salvageable condition'.

I now that when Ady was there, the guys at the studio were in 'very lazy mood' & not willing to look for much of anything in the tape vaults.

[Dave Pinch]

That might very well be the case. In that case the order would be:

W 104A - multi-coloured

W 104A - red/white

W 104A3 - red/white

if you have a good listen W104A3 is a different take altogether

[Roburt]

_{This article I wrote almost 15 years ago illustrates what a frustrating time Clevland based soul singers had to endure.}

It deals with the career of the Soul Notes & Bill Spoon but it could apply to just about any local soul singer ..........

............. BILL SPOON ............

In 1997 a Channel 4 TV documentary dealing with the duties of the LA Coroners office was screened in the UK.One of the people who's day to day tasks were illustrated in this programme was a department member by the name of William Bell. Now for most people who saw the documentary this will prove to be their one & only insight into the life of William Bell. However northern / modern soul fans will already be acquainted with his work in the music business where he is better known under his recording / stage name of Bill Spoon. William Bell (Bill Spoon) was born on November 6th, 1942 in Jefferson County, Alabama.

His interest in music began at an early stage under the tutelage of the late Alex Bradford. His home area must have been a hot bed for musical talent as Bill grew up in the company of numerous others who were later to forge successful recording careers. Bill attended High School with Frederick Knight, Barbara Joyce Lomas (later to become a founding member of BT Express) plus Richard & Jessie Fisher. In fact, for a short period, Bill and Richard sang in the same street corner group. He would get together to write songs with his neighbour, and long time friend, Roger Hatcher and he also participated in local talent shows with the likes of Eddie Kendncks &: David Ruffin. Bill was also a member of the Miles College Chorus where one of his fellows was Mitty Collier who would go on to enjoy success with Chess Records. In the early sixties Bills plans for a musical career seemed as if they would have to be put on hold as he was called up into the Army. However he soon turned the situation to his advantage, as he spent two years (1962/3) entertaining the troops in Korea as lead singer for an outfit known as the Soul Masters.

He was relocated to Germany for a further period where he was lead singer for a group who went by the name of the Uniques. In 1965, at the end of his tour of duty, he returned to Alabama where he completed his education in Birmingham At the time, however, there were few opportunities in the area to make the inroads into the recording business that Bill aspired to. As a result of this he followed the example set by Eddie Kendricks and David Ruffin and moved north to relocate in Cleveland, Ohio. Other locals took the same road, Richard and Jessie Fisher also making the same move with Roger Hatcher following a few years later. On his arrival in Cleveland, Bill was reunited with Walter Ricky Dannison who he had got to know before going into the Army, this occurring in June 1965. Walter introduced him to Leroy Elie, with whom Ricky had sung while Bill was in the army. Riki, Leroy and Bill realised that they had the gist of a competitive singing unit, but were one voice short of a true blend. In August 1965, they met John Cornbread Berry and he became the fourth member of the as yet un-narned group. The group started to perform in night clubs but only on weekends as they all had full time day jobs. Walter did some form of quality control at the Cleveland Chrysler Auto Plant, Leroy was a commercial electrical and mechanical architect, while John was the floor manager at a metal photo processing plant.

Bill himself was a criminal investigator for the State of Ohio. Soon after the line-up adopted the name the Soul Notes their collective efforts were recognised as in November 1965 they were signed to a recording contract by locally based Way Out Records. The group continued to gain experience and hone their performances and by 1967 Way Out were ready to let them record in their own right. Initially two tracks were laid down, “How Long Will It Last” and “Don't Make Me Beg” but Way Out were in the process of negotiating a national distribution deal with MGM and so the companies releases were delayed while this was completed Early in 1968 though the two tracks were released as a single, Way Out 1001. The group returned to the recording studio and a further two tracks were recorded, “I Got Everything I Need” and “I've Been Waiting For Your Love”. Way Out decided a second single was warranted on the group and so in 1969 they enjoyed another release, “I Got Everything I Need / How Long Will It Last” -- Way Out 1006. For some reason Way Out decided to leave Ive Been Waiting For Your Love on the shelf as they re-used one side of the groups first single. This decision undoubtedly robbed uptempo soul fans of a potential favourite as “I've Been Waiting For Your Love” had definite dance floor potential.

The song had been driven by Bill along with group member Walter Riki Dannison and the Sensations Johnny Washington. Someone at Way Out must have thought the song had potential though as they got James Calloway to come up with an alternative set of lyrics.The revised version of the song was later (1971) to be recorded & released for the company by Jessie Fisher, the songs new title being “You're Not Loving A Beginner” -- Way Out 104. The Soul Notes cut a further 6 tracks in Way Outs studios in 1969 but unfortunately none of these gained a release. The songs laid down by the group were “Please, Baby Please” (a version of the Sensations track), “I Cant Wait Until The Weekend”, “Try It, You'll Like it”, “I'm On My Way”, “I'll Wait For You” and “Alone”. The groups treatment by Way Out was distressing its members and in 1969 John Berry quit the group. His place was taken by Avon Wells, but Avons stint with the Soul Notes was short lived as within a few months he moved on (becoming a member of the Imperial Wonders). Bill, Riki & Leroy continued on as a trio but in early 1970 a power struggle broke out at Way Out and the companies management became chaotic. In the confusion a number of projects got lost, a new Soul Notes release being amongst these.

Bill is sure a few test pressings featuring tracks they had laid down in 1969 were made but none enjoyed an official release. Discouraged with their future the Soul Notes broke up.

Bill Spoon decided a change was again called for and so he moved back down south, relocating to Memphis where he worked briefly with Frederick Knight. Bill soon returned to Cleveland though and later in 1970 he cut his first tracks as a solo artist. He cut five songs in all (“Gotta Go On”, “It's Hard Livin Alone”, etc.) and these were destined for release on Springboard Records. A few demo copies were pressed up but unfortunately the scheduled release failed to make it into the shops. Bill next acted as producer /arranger on a session for Walter Dannison, who now went by the recording name of Riki Sonda, but again a release failed to materialist. In the meantime Bill had formed a relationship with Bobby and Friendly Womack and so he moved out to California which was where they were based. Here he met Pete Peterson and Tom Wilson and in conjunction with them he landed a recording deal with Angel City Records who were to be distributed by Polydor. Bill cut 4 tracks for the label in 1972, 2 more in 73 and another 4 in 1974 however the untimely death of their executive producer, Tom Wilson meant the project ended. A number of the tracks were co-written / produced by Gene Dozier these marked the first occasion that Bill and Gene had collaborated in the recording studio.

Four of these tracks were to find favour with UK soul fans in the late 80s when they were reissued on a Hense Forth 12". The tracks involved were “I Can Feel It” (from 1972), “She'll Be Lucky” (from 1973 — both of these being written / produced by Bill himself), “The One Who Really Loves You” and “I Bet You Cant Love Me One More Time” from 1974 (both being co-written & produced by Gene Dozier). Yet again Bill returned to Cleveland and here he organised a deal with Hot Ice Records. In 1976 he recorded 2 tracks for the company, a further two in 77 and five more in 78. One of the tracks that he recorded at this time was a song Bill had written with ex - Soul Note Riki Dannison, “I Got God On My Side”. Once again unfortunately nothing really resulted from the association. By 1980 Bill had thrown his lot in with Bob Davis who had earlier run the Day-Wood label. Gene Dozier, who at the time was working for Solar Records, was brought across to Cleveland to oversee the proposed recording session. At this session Bill laid down 2 tracks, “Love Is On The Way” & “Don't Play With My Love” and these were released on the newly instigated Highland label. Unfortunately the company didnt have the finances to properly promote and distribute the single and so commercial success eluded Bill yet again.

The quality of the tracks was appreciated by UK fans though and the single became a much sought after item on this side of the pond.Eventually, to satisfy the pent-up demand, the record was also reissued on Henseforth in the late 80s. The problems the Highland release experienced finally convinced Bill that he wasnt going to establish a successful recording career in Cleveland and so in the early 80s he returned to Los Angeles. Over a period of several years he collaborated on projects with the likes of Friendly Womack, Leon Haywood, Lou Ragland and Gene Dozier. By the end of the eighties he was ready to give a solo career a try again. He linked up with Hense Powell and a number of tracks were laid down. The result of this work saw the light of day in 1990 when the Henseforth LP 'Talk To Me' was released This 8 track strong album immediately found a receptive audience in the UK but unfortunately making the US record buying public aware of its existence and quality was to prove a more difficult task.

A number of songs on the allbum help illustrate the enduring musical associations that Bill had developed over his long career as they were co-written with old allies. One of the LPs most popular tracks, “Kick Back” was composed in conjunction with Lou Ragland whilst Riki Dannison assisted with “Look At Yourself”. Further Henseforth recordings escaped in 1995 when the single “I Rode The Crest Of The Wave / No Way To Live” was released but again it failed to find a wide audience. Bill isn't a person whos easily discouraged though and he continued to work on new material. He re-recorded “I Got God on My Side” along with a number of other songs.

Bill's duties with the L.A Coroners Office were becoming too arduous on a day to day basis and so he was determined to make another effort in the recording field. He had plans to release a new C D but again this project failed to materialise. More recently Bill got to retire and so quit LA to be nearer to famoily members. He certainly deserved to get more recognition for the fine work he had undetaken in the recording studio down the years, he never really received the plaudits long due to him.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Roburt

[Garethx]

Worth pointing out that Jesse Fisher sang in the Raymond Rasberry Singers with, among others, Carl Hall, and that his brother Richard was also a tremendous vocalist.

Here's Richard on the Jive Five's "No More Tears", quite a different type of sound for them as it's pleading deep soul with a roaring tenor lead as opposed to smooth group soul or neo doo wop. They were presumably trying to cash in on the then commercial southern soul of Wilson Pickett, Otis Redding etc.

[Chalky]

I would imagine much of Cleveland back in the 60's and 70's was ruled by the mob(s). I was told Way Out was primarily a way for the monsters to launder money.

[Roburt]

This guy was involved with Way Out ...............

Don King was born in Cleveland, Ohio. He ran an illegal bookmaking operation and was charged for killing two men in separate incidents 13 years apart. The 1st was determined to be justifiable homicide after it was found that King shot Hillary Brown in the back and killed him while he was attempting to rob one of King's gambling houses. King was then convicted of 2nd degree murder for the second killing in 1966 after he was found guilty of stomping to death an employee who owed him $600. King's attorney plea bargained his conviction down to non-negligent manslaughter for which he served just under four years in prison. King was later pardoned for the crime in 1983.

King entered the boxing world after convincing Muhammad Ali to box in a charity exhibition for a local hospital in Cleveland with the help of singer Lloyd Price. Early on he formed a partnership with a local promoter named Don Elbaum, who already had a stable of fighters in Cleveland and years of experience in boxing. In 1974, King negotiated to promote a heavyweight championship fight between Muhammad Ali and George Foreman in Zaire ('the Rumble in the Jungle').

Edited December 22, 2012 by Roburt

[Chalky]

That's one of the name that was mentioned to me.

[Kev John]

Heard a multi coloured one played out last night no problems sounded fine no distortion issues at all

atb Kev

[Dave Pinch]

Heard a multi coloured one played out last night no problems sounded fine no distortion issues at all

atb Kev

they all sound fine kev. on the intro about 1 second before the music starts there is a droning type of sound and they all play a little dull but loud..this applies to the multicoloured and the white/red 104 copies. as i said earlier the later 104a3 copies play a little lower but clearer but its a different take anyway,,rarest format by a mile tho....dave abbott has/had a copy of that

Edited December 22, 2012 by dave pinch

[Kev John]

they all sound fine kev. on the intro about 1 second before the music starts there is a droning type of sound and they all play a little dull but loud..this applies to the multicoloured and the white/red 103 copies. as i said earlier the later 103a3 copies play a little lower but clearer but its a different take anyway,,rarest format by a mile tho....dave abbott has/had a copy of that

Hi dave

do you know what the rarity ratio is between the 104A & the 104A3 white copies are ?

Kev

[Dave Pinch]

as much as 10 to 1 imho

[Kev John]

as much as 10 to 1 imho

THAT'S INTERESTING THANKS DAVE

Edited December 22, 2012 by soulghost

[Guest sharmo 1]

Talking of the 9th street exit i love sweet harmony by them (1 and 2 ) on the lable it mentions from the forthcomming album does anyone know if this albumever came out i'd love to have a copie regards Simon.

[Roburt]

Talking of the 9th street exit i love sweet harmony by them (1 and 2 ) on the lable it mentions from the forthcomming album does anyone know if this albumever came out i'd love to have a copie regards Simon.

Like many Cleveland based projects, the 9th St Exit LP never made it into the shops.

[Roburt]

More info on 9th Street Exit & Dunn Pearson ....

..... (suppose it needs its own thread but as the question was asked here, thought I'd start it off here at least) .............

DUNN PEARSON & 9^th STREET EXIT

Dunn Pearson was around on the Cleveland soul scene from the late 60's through to 1980 when he relocated to New York. In that time, he backed up many local soul groups & singers, formed & led groups himself, toured (in backing bands) with top acts such as the O'Jays. He has also cut, arranged and produced his own group plus other acts on recording sessions and has generally become a 'jack of all trades' on the music scene in the city and beyond.

He learnt to play instruments and sang some during his school years. The original group he helped form were known as the Shades of Soul who came together in 1969/70. Bobby English was also born in Cleveland and he was in the same home room in Junior High School as Benny Slocum. The two of then were talking one day and decided to become involved in music. Bobby had considered playing the drums, but when Benny made the drums his instrument of choice, Bobby quickly took up the saxophone. Bobby was inspired by the likes of Cannonball Adderley. Ironically, the pair started off playing in competing bands. Benny was with The Shades of Soul and Bobby with a group called The Citations. But when Benny & the other guys in Shades of Soul heard him play a solo from a Rare Earth album, they asked Bobby to join their group. The new ensemble started out as a self-contained group and they played local clubs and talent shows, quickly learning their trade. In the group's early they would play tunes by Booker T & the MG's and other instrumental tunes that featured Dunn. Kenny Red would sing lead on songs Isley Brothers cuts and pop songs such as "Midnight at the Oasis," and "On a Horse with No Name." Booby would take lead on "Ain't No Sunshine", "I Don't Want The Night to End" (a Phoebe Snow tune) and he was also responsible for getting the outfit to play a lot of jazz tunes (songs by the likes of Roy Ayers, John Klemmer, and the (Jazz) Crusaders).

The group soon came to the attention of the manager of local boy band the Ponderosa Twins + One who had just made the big time (hitting nationally with a cover of Sam Cooke's “You Send Me” on Horoscope in September 1971). So they became that group's backing band and almost instantly went out on nationwide tours. The members of the band were Dunn Pearson (piano), Kenny Redon (guitar + vocals ; known as Kenny Redd but a different guy to the one who was in True Movement), Bobby English (sax + vocals), Benny Slocum (drums), Ernie Cary (bass), Booker Hollins (percussion) plus two brothers David (older) & Bobby Johnson (who were transitional members of the band as were some others). When they were touring with the Ponderosa Twins, they opened shows for Gladys Knight & The Pips, Kool & The Gang, Al Green, James Brown and many more top seeling acts. They toured right up and down the east coast but when the Twins' voices started to change, that was the end of them. After the Ponderosa Twins broke up, they became the Imperial Wonders backing band. They soon decided to go out on their own and were dubbed 9^th Street Exit (the name being dreamed up by Lou Ragland & Walter Williams. 9^th Street Exit being the slip road off the freeway that led into central Cleveland). With their connections to Bobby Massey and the other O'Jays, they soon landed a record deal with the locally based Solid Foundation label. Two singles soon escaped; “(Let's Make) Sweet Harmony” (SF 103) and “9th Street” (SF 107). The group got to play the songs they had recorded in local clubs and the tracks got limited local radio airplay, but significant numbers of the 45's weren't sold. Bobby didn't even remember playing on those tracks and thought that he may have been off at college at the time. They worked on tracks to form an album (to be issued under the title 'Be Happy' (B55101) but the cuts were never finished and no LP materialised. Benny, Kenny and Bobby did all the lead singing for the group and they were always competing with each another. Benny sang songs by the likes of Isaac Hayes and Barry White (he had a very nice semi-baritone voice). One of Bobby's favourite songs was Brook Benton's "Rainy Night In Georgia”. He also did a great version of "Sweet Thing" by Chaka Khan. 9th Street was regarded as a really class act. They performed all styles of music including soul, jazz, funk, r&b, rock and pop. They did a version of "Cloudy" (the Average White Band track) that included a section where the band would start swinging and Bobby would break into scat singing. One of their favourite groups was Sly and The Family Stone. When they performed at rock concerts in high school, Dunn would dress just like Sly and he would look exactly like him. Everyone acknowledged that Dunn was the most proficient musician in the group. He had complete command of his instrument and many times would play a red, white and blue Farfisa organ (just like Sly Stone).

The group also acted as the studio band backing up the Imperial Wonders on the tracks they cut for Solid Foundation (as did some members of the O’Jays backing band). Bobby Massey had become the groups manager but unfortunately their releases failed to sell much outside of Cleveland itself. Dunn Pearson was learning all the time though, so he got more into song writing, producing & arranging. He picked up many 'studio skills' working on those Solid Foundation sessions. He also worked on tracks as the arranger for Way Out (Jessie Fisher “Mr. Super Nobody / Don’t Cheat On Me” in 1973), Miystic Insight Records (True Movement -- "Depression / What A Lovely Way To Meet" & Sonny Lovall —“Ghetto Boy” in 1974) Shaker Records ( Bobby & Cindy — “If This Ain't Really Love / I’ll Keep Coming Back” in 1975), CAM (Odyssey & Company — “Let Me Be / She’s Perfect”), Devaki Records (Truth — “Understanding / See You Later” in 1980) and he even got to co-produce “You’re The Girl Of My Dreams” for the O’Jays (a 1980 TSOP release). Another job he landed was the producer's role for Akron Ohio based female group M’Lady. This trio landed a deal with 20^th Century Records and had 2 x 12” releases on the label (“Sweet Honey / Baby You Lied” being the 1st). By 1980, Dunn had become a 'big fish in a little pond' and so he relocated to New York but continued to work with Cleveland artists. Dunn also wrote the song “All I Want Is You” that he then cut on Four Flights (Almeria: 1978) and on Sly, Slick & Wicked (Sweet City / Epic: 1979).

With their records not doing too well, the members of 9^th Street Exit had become a bit disillusioned. Dunn left the group and went off to play in the O'Jay's tour band. That didn't immediately lead to the group's break up but it had a number of personnel changes. At one point they had two guitar players and then they added a piano player and two additional sax players. Bobby had just about left the group in 1977 when he was away in college, but he returned in 1978 after graduating. They played on for a little while but eventually disbanded. Bobby started playing with a jazz quartet in the early 80's and moved to Chicago in 1985 where he enrolled in graduate school. Here he studied for and was awarded a masters degree in entertainment management. While in Chicago, he continued to play and record, getting to perform all around Chicago itself plus across Indiana and Wisconsin. After 9^th Street Exit had broken up, it's other members also moved on. After Dunn left the group had a number of personnel changes. At one point we had two guitar players and at another we added a piano player and two additional sax players. Benny passed away many years ago, he was shot and killed when someone attempted to rob him around 1982. Bobby himself had moved back to Cleveland from Chicago in 1990. There he started playing in a 'wedding band' with Kenny and Ernie. Ernie and Kenny were still playing together at the end of the 90's. While they were all in the wedding band they would play some of the 9th Street Exit songs. Amazingly, though many years had passed, Kenny still remembered every song and lick. When Bobby had auditioned for the wedding band (at Ernie's request) the leader of the band had asked if he sang. Kenny and Ernie immediately started playing "Sara Smile" and Bobby had started singing the song (which had been one of the songs he had sung with 9th Street). Back around 2000, Bobby English lived in LA. Ernie passed away, he died of a heart attack in the late 1990's.

Dunn had teamed up with Bruce Gray (probably via his O'Jays Philly connection) and they formed Dunn & Bruce Street. As half of Dunn & Bruce Street he had a number of releases. “ If You Come With Me / The Moment Of Truth” (Devaki DK 4005) was issued in 1981, the A side being both written, produced & arranged by Dunn and Bruce (this also got a UK release on Satril in 83 with a different B side -- Satril SAT 503). Next up came “Shout For Joy / Yearnin & Burnin” (DK1009) in 1982 (both tracks being written, produced & arranged by Dunn & Bruce — this also escaped as a UK 12” release as SATRIL SAT 500 in 82). An album, 'Official Business' (Devaki DKI 30003), also came out in 82 and this featured 8 tracks (all being written, produced & arranged by pair). All the duet's tracks were recorded at Blank Tape Studios, New York and featured Bruce Gray on lead vocals. Dunn handled backing vocals along with Tawatha Agee, Fonzie Thornton, etc. The musicians on their recordings were Dunn (keys / synths), Bruce, Phillip Woo (drums), Yogi Horton, Woody Cunningham (bass) Raymond Jackson (guitar) & Doc Powell.

From 1983, Dunn started to cut solo efforts while continuing to work in the studio with other artists. He cut “ Go For The Gusto” (Compose 9904-12) in 1989 that featured Jocelyn Brown on lead vocals. This was followed by a 10 track album (9904-1) on which all the songs were self written except Gary Glenn's “Caught Up In The Rapture”. He worked with musicians & vocalists such as Grover Washington, Noel Pointer, Bernard Watt, Doc Powell, Willie Ross and Benny Diggs. A good vocal track, “Most Definitely” was laid down at Hip Pocket Studio, NY and this came out on Bounce. Dunn also worked in the studio with Teddy Prendergrass, Stephanie Mills, Lou Rawls, Mtume, the Spinners, Stevie Wonder, D’Angelo, LSG ( Levert, Sweat, Gill), Mary J Blige and others. He scored the Broadway musical 'Amen Corner' and films like “Native Son “ & “Head Office”. He also worked on the TV show ‘New York Undercover’ and composed dozens of commercials. He did other work for PPI and in 1999, the CD 'Under Cover Lover' (again for Bounce Records of Newark, NJ). This CD featured “Up All Night” cut with April Harris & Najee. Since then he has also worked with Grover Washington (again), Fred Watt, Marion Meadows, Freddie Hubbard, Freddie Jackson, Portia Martin, Voice of Harmony, Janice Dempsey, Gerald Albright and Patrice Rushen.

So from his humble musical beginnings in Cleveland, Dunn has gone on to leave a lasting legacy in the recording & performing worlds. Many of his old recordings and production efforts are much sought after by record collectors, having stood up to the 'test of time' more than adequately.