Us Regional Breakouts Back In The Day

[Roburt]

Lots of times back in the 1960's (not so much later as individual radio DJ's had less scope to playlist tracks themselves) a record (45 or LP track that was then issued on 45) would be broken by just a single DJ (or a team who all worked at the same stn).

Their choices would many times be straight forward, a local artist that they perhaps knew / liked with a 45 on a local label (or with a national major label deal) would be selected & with plays would hit the local charts. This success would then spread out across the States. If the artist was unknown, the spread of popularity of their track could be quite slow (it having dropped off the 1st city chart it entered whilst still had to enter a far flung location's charts).

But on numerous occasions, an act would become friendly with a DJ from miles away & thus the record of a New York based act could be broken say in Miami; whilst it got no radio plays at all back in their home area (as was the case with the Steinways).

Thought it would be a good idea to list a few 'breakout' rundowns & get the 'guys with the goods' to pass along their knowledge as to why say a 45 on a LA indie label should get better attention in Philly (or DC or Miami) than it ever got back in their home city.

So here goes, the 1st 'breakout' listing ........

... it's from August 64 but the question is .....

why was the Vows Tamara 45 getting so much attention in Philly & DC ...

I for one have no idea at all, over to you (Robb?) .........

Edited August 9, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

"Funny" by Joe Hinton was also getting most attention up north (Boston, New York, Cleveland) rather than back down south (Houston or even Indiana).

Here's a 2nd listing .....

this time Joe's 45 is being championed in Baltimore .... its popularity was spreading right across the country & it entered the national R&B charts in mid August & stayed on the charts for 3 months ....

[Roburt]

Local guy Kenny Hamber was doing well in Baltimore but why was the Wallace Bothers 45 so big in the city ??

Don't think I've ever heard the Butterflies or Terry & the Tyrants cuts at all !!!

Up in Philly, a ska 45 was big but the WDAS DJ's were also getting behind the Carolyn Crawford & Eddie Holland 45's.

Local Barbara Mason was showing well which was to be expected but why was Johnny Williams Kent 45 getting so much attention.

............. you tell me ...........

October now but we're still in Philly & Baltimore .............

.. can't think why Jimmy Bishop should have helped pick the Tiffanys 45 as one to watch .........

Edited August 9, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Locals Candy & the Kisses plus Arnold Mitchell were getting attention in Philly ....

... but so were 45's by Gus Jenkins & the Tams.

Down in Baltimore, it was mainly 'out of town' artists who were getting a push.

These included Little Jerry Williams & his Southern Sound label 45 (about to be picked up by Loma me thinks).

Edited August 9, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Already posted this one (in the Boogaloo thread) ....

... but it's worth another airing .....

Lou Courtney was big in Houston,

Jimmy Robbins in Atlanta,

& Don Gardner in Milwaukee ........

[Dave Moore]

One of the huge differences in the music industries between our own country and the US is the role played by Radio and the people who controlled it.

A whole generation before even the Pirate stations here, the US had a thriving radio network and all that that entailed. Payola was rampant even before the days of the 45 and even took place when the industry's royalties were paid via sheet music sales. It's a great exciting story about the expansion of US radio and when you get to the invention of the 45, the development of the Fendercaster and RCAs portable Record Players, and the teenage post WWII baby boomers hunger for Rock n Roll and the expansion of black migrants to major US cities, it becomes even more a tapestry of interwoven events and factions.

DJs didn't control the industry in the 60s. Businessmen did. The DJ was the vehicle but in many cases it was the lawyers, the entrepreneurs, the theatre owners, the local businessmen who actually drove the industry. Very few of the DJs of the era would continue to thrive once their usefulness lapsed. For every Dick Clark there were a hundred Alan Freeds. Many DJs would try to grab a slice of the cake but not many succeded commercially, especially black ones. Hence the Rare Soulo Scene 40 years later still hunting down their 'products'

Also, you can't rely on merely geographical closeness to link a break-out record with a local DJ alone. Lester Sill is a good example. He was in LA but influenced radio airplay from Alaska to Mexico! Harold Lipsius did the same as did Henry Stone. A few $$s here, a box of 45s there, a bag of powder left on your desk, a hooker in a hotel. It was all part of the weave.The story of the record promo men is a wondrous tale of shenanigans that I've heard first hand from some of them. Most of them see records now as a bitter pill to swallow. One of them recently told me "I never cared about the records Dave or the labels, they were just a product, A product I needed to get past the DJs and onto the airwaves at all costs".

When the Payola Investigations closed down some of the 'schemes', it is now felt, with hindsight of course, that one of the negatives it achieved was to restrict the smaller independent labels, companies and individuals from getting their stuff to the DJs turntables like it had before. The whole idea of preventing advantage had actually created it as many DJs wouldn't touch a new act for fear of being compromised. It took a few years for the dust to settle. The of course.....another group moved in to control the distribution side of the industry and the whole shennanigans started again.

It's a great subject and one that is covered in detail in the new book "Philadelphia - City Of Brotherly Soul" due out late September hopefully.

Great thread John.

Regards,

Dave

[Steve G]

Wow lots of books being worked on right now......

We mustn't forget the 'regional reps' who also played a role in getting stuff played in the regions and away from NYC Chicago, Nashville and Philly. But for many there was no substitute to walking round to radio stations with your product to see the DJ yourself.

Steve

[Dave Moore]

Wow lots of books being worked on right now......

We mustn't forget the 'regional reps' who also played a role in getting stuff played in the regions and away from NYC Chicago, Nashville and Philly. But for many there was no substitute to walking round to radio stations with your product to see the DJ yourself.

Steve

That would be the dream job for a few of us on here eh!

Wandering round provincial American towns with cars full of 45s! Sound familiar?

Regards,

Dave

[Roburt]

Yes, regional reps did a lot of good for certain record labels.

Motown used to hire people with local influence, Weldon McDougal & certain radio DJ's were put on the payroll to help plug / promote the company's releases. Then as Motown's major influence began to fall off a bit, some of those same guys were hired to help out at Philly International.

[Roburt]

Nella wasn't a breakout, just a record to watch ........

.. and Jerry Williams was there again ...

Edited August 9, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

....... More (in Aug 64) from WSID's Fat Daddy .........

with the bottom 10 of WSID's Top 30 added in for good measure

[Roburt]

Of course, payola or appointing a regional rep to act as your promo man wasn't the only way to go for a little local label based off the beaten track.

You could always place an ad in a trade paper .............. and hope ...........

[The Yank]

Of course, payola or appointing a regional rep to act as your promo man wasn't the only way to go for a little local label based off the beaten track.

You could always place an ad in a trade paper .............. and hope ...........

that no one notices you spelled subpoena wrong !

Edited August 11, 2012 by the yank

[Roburt]

Two regional breakout 45's in March 65 ........

[Roburt]

One from January 1966 here ...........

Bit suprised that the Artistics were getting action in LA and Darrow Fletcher in Miami.

[boba]

Yes, regional reps did a lot of good for certain record labels.

Motown used to hire people with local influence, Weldon McDougal & certain radio DJ's were put on the payroll to help plug / promote the company's releases. Then as Motown's major influence began to fall off a bit, some of those same guys were hired to help out at Philly International.

Although he doesn't get much credit, Emmett Gardner (VP of Curtom, previously singer in the Trends) was a big regional A&R man. He worked for London records and he was one of the people responsible for breaking Al Green.

[Roburt]

Although many labels were still making good use of regional reps in the mid 70's, some record companies were so small & / or 'off the beaten track', that the guys there couldn't run to such a facility ........

..... for them it was still the old 'tried & tested' (but not too effective) trade ad ......

still I suppose at least it got the word out, how many people seeing the ad actually followed up on things I have no idea ...

... Cobra Records of Marlboro (west of Boston) tried the method to promote their artist Arlene Bailey ...

[Ian Dewhirst]

It's a fascinating subject. I always thought a good idea for a series would be in providing comps which would be snapshots of the local U.S. scenes throughout the mid 60's to even the mid 90's. It's such a huge territory and tastes vary quite a lot over every decade that it's kinda fascinating to see what records were breaking in different areas. It still goes on to this day. There's many a time I've only heard stuff on the radio in one city and nowhere else - Mich'elles "Nicety" in L.A., Kid Frost's "La Raza" in San Diego, the Gucci Crew's "Sally (That Girl)" in Florida, Rockin' Sydney's "My Toot Toot" in New Orleans are just a few examples off the top of my head.

I once went to the New York Public library and photocopied all the regional dance charts from Billboard when I was researching localised dance hits from the 70's. I've still got 'em under the stairs somewhere LOL.

Also it's fairly easy to tell from U.S. digging trips in the 70's and 80's which local labels seemed to have clout and obviously wide distribution locally. No probs ever finding Jimmy Bee records in L.A. but not many anywhere else as one example......

Great thread! Can you start compiling regional Soul hits 1965-1975 please?

Ian D

Edited August 11, 2012 by Ian Dewhirst

[Roburt]

Ian,

I have lots of info on local charts for Baltimore, St Louis (only for a certain time in the 60's) & Miami.

Got odd bits of info on what was going on in Cleveland town as well .... early 68 breakouts ...

......... Tony Clarke, Timothy Carr, Jean Wells, etc.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Roburt

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian,

I have lots of info on local charts for Baltimore, St Louis (only for a certain time in the 60's) & Miami.

Got odd bits of info on what was going on in Cleveland town as well .... early 68 breakouts ...

......... Tony Clarke, Timothy Carr, Jean Wells, etc.

Interesting that Eddie Spencer is in there. So presumably, Arc, a Canadian company, were working their records in the Northern U.S. cities....?

Ian D

[Roburt]

Well Cleveland is just across the lake from Canada, so no doubt Cleveland radio stn signals were good & strong across a large area of the country.

I guess the Canadian label sent 45's across there in the hope that they would get plays ... & that one obviously did.

[Robbk]

I would guess that a local record from one area getting lots of play in other regions could have been the result of several different factors or a combination of them (being pushed by a local representative or affiliate, payola, DJs really liking the cut (with no other factor related), DJ having a connection with distant label owner, radio station owner/manager having connection with distant record label, artist, himself having personal connection with DJ, DJ's family or friends, or radio station personnel, etc., regional distributor having connection with radio station personnel, etc.

I was in the business, myself. It was difficult to get anything played without throwing parties or "entertaining" prospective associate companies with expensive "gifts", which often included drugs.

As to The Vow's Tamara record getting lots of play in certain areas of The East Coast, and almost no play in L.A. (home of the label), I have no idea. The connection to The East might have come through the owners of Tamara Records, or the owners of Colonial Records (manufacturer and distributor), or Hal Davis, The Pipkin Brothers or any of the Finesse Music writing/producing crew. I notice that William Powell wrote the two Jobete Music songs for Tamara's Cinderellas release. If those are the Cinderellas from New York (and I don't remember a Cinderellas existing in California), AND William Powell is the O'Jay's member, perhaps he was the connection. There are too many potential factors to do guess work. The only way to really know, is to have heard the real story from people who were around then.

The L.A. productions being released on Doc Records in Pennsylvania is a good example of that. We can speculate all we want. But, unless someone who was around at that time reveals exactly what went down, we will never know. I can't believe that the producers chose a random Pennsylvania address just as a subterfuge for releasing music that was someone else's property, they didn't want to share profits with other rights holders, or to hide "moonlighting" they weren't allowed to do, per their production contract with Jobete Music. The same lack of ability to tracxe what happened, exists when trying to piece together the reasons for an indie record from a very small-staffed/ small-budget local label getting play in a distant region.

Yes, Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Erie, PA, Detroit, London, radio stations were heard all over The Great Lakes Region in both Canada and USA. So, Canadian and US record labels from those cities shopped their records on both sides of the border, and had their artists appear on both sides (thus Motown artists appeared frequently all over The lower Peninsula (Southern Ontario) and in Toronto, and Canadian artists (Jackie Shane, et al) would appear in those US cities.

[Roburt]

Gino Washington enjoyed a few regional breakouts back in the 60's .........

(Though Billboard got their Gino's & Geno's mixed up in their Milan report)

[boba]

Of course, payola or appointing a regional rep to act as your promo man wasn't the only way to go for a little local label based off the beaten track.

You could always place an ad in a trade paper .............. and hope ...........

i think people missed it in this thread but my friend also found that justifiers ad. anyone want to sell me the 45?

[boba]

It's a fascinating subject. I always thought a good idea for a series would be in providing comps which would be snapshots of the local U.S. scenes throughout the mid 60's to even the mid 90's. It's such a huge territory and tastes vary quite a lot over every decade that it's kinda fascinating to see what records were breaking in different areas. It still goes on to this day. There's many a time I've only heard stuff on the radio in one city and nowhere else - Mich'elles "Nicety" in L.A., Kid Frost's "La Raza" in San Diego, the Gucci Crew's "Sally (That Girl)" in Florida, Rockin' Sydney's "My Toot Toot" in New Orleans are just a few examples off the top of my head.

records from other cities hit locally in different cities if they fit the local sound better than their hometown sound. Gucci Crew II fit into the whole Miami Bass thing. A couple records that are not from Chicago that hit almost only in Chicago -- Sly Slick and Wicked "Sho Nuff" and We the people "Making my daydream real". They had a sound that appealed to Chicagoans.

[Ian Dewhirst]

records from other cities hit locally in different cities if they fit the local sound better than their hometown sound. Gucci Crew II fit into the whole Miami Bass thing. A couple records that are not from Chicago that hit almost only in Chicago -- Sly Slick and Wicked "Sho Nuff" and We the people "Making my daydream real". They had a sound that appealed to Chicagoans.

Yep. I'd have to dig out a few books but there's some other surprising examples of the same thing. Someone once told me that me that Al Johnson & Jean Carn's "I'm Back For More" made No.1 on the R&B charts purely through sales in the South alone.....

Ian D

[Roburt]

RE: Someone once told me that me that Al Johnson & Jean Carn's "I'm Back For More" made No.1 on the R&B charts purely through sales in the South alone.....

Hastings, Bexhill, Brighton & Bognor ????

[Sunnysoul]

Ian,

I have lots of info on local charts for Baltimore, St Louis (only for a certain time in the 60's) & Miami.

Got odd bits of info on what was going on in Cleveland town as well .... early 68 breakouts ...

......... Tony Clarke, Timothy Carr, Jean Wells, etc.

And what about those giants of soul music , The Who , getting into the RnB chart with "My Generation" !!!

• 
  
  
  

Edited August 26, 2012 by sunnysoul

[Roburt]

If you think "My Generation" is a bit off the 'soul track' ..........

.. you'll be appalled to learn that "Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport" was played on US black radio stations back in 63 & made it onto the national R&B charts for a 5 week period ................. Rolf Harris; southern soul guru ??

Other 'BIG' entries on the same chart were from Trini Lopez, the Beach Boys, Bee Gees, Kraftwerk & the Steve Miller Band.

[boba]

when they play steve miller "fly like an eagle" on the dusties station, it actually sounds good, like the context totally changes the sound.

[Roburt]

Up to Cleveland again for this one (which dates from 64) ...

[MrsWoodsrules]

Great thread this.

Leonard Chess documented the fact that he used bribery to get his record plugged.

Although his time was much earlier, I'm sure it was still going on in the mid to late 60s too.

Wouldn't be surprised to find out dj's were payed NOT to play certain releases by certain label rivals too.

Aid

[Roburt]

I believe that by the 60's (coz of all the payola prosecutions), label bosses were being a bit more sutble.

They were directly employing radio DJ's as regional promo guys or sales dept. guys (or both), rather than just slipping them money to play their company's records .....

I know that top Nashville DJ Bill 'Hoss' Allen (WLAC) left the station in 1960 to work for Chess Records. But he was back at WLAC by 1963 & was hosting 'The Beat' TV show not too long afterwards .......

......... then there was the likes of Bob Garner of KYOK in Houston ......

Edited August 28, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Of course Chess could always get their records played in Chicago as the label (or its owners) had their own radio station ....

The Springers & Midnighters 45 on this list were local outings, so no real mystery why they were tipped here ....

.... but some eclectic stuff was featuring in Detroit back in February 65 ..........

[Robbk]

Yes, regional reps did a lot of good for certain record labels.

Motown used to hire people with local influence, Weldon McDougal & certain radio DJ's were put on the payroll to help plug / promote the company's releases. Then as Motown's major influence began to fall off a bit, some of those same guys were hired to help out at Philly International.

McDougall was Motown's rep in philly for many years. Kim Fowley (of all people!) was their sales rep in L.A. during 1959-62.

[Roburt]

This listing isn't of 'regional breakout' albums but of LP's 'bubbling under' the US national album's chart ..........

Must say the entry for EVD's LP shocks me as most US Motown fans I have spoken to down the years tell me they were never aware (due to lack of promotion) of any EVD 45 & LP releases back in the day.

If this LP almost made the R&B LP charts in 65, tracks off it must have got some radio airplay and it must have sold a decent number of copies.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Roburt

[Dave Moore]

If you think "My Generation" is a bit off the 'soul track' ..........

.. you'll be appalled to learn that "Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport" was played on US black radio stations back in 63 & made it onto the national R&B charts for a 5 week period ................. Rolf Harris; southern soul guru ??

Other 'BIG' entries on the same chart were from Trini Lopez, the Beach Boys, Bee Gees, Kraftwerk & the Steve Miller Band.

Here's the AD for the said song...

Regards,

Dave

Tie Mi Kangaroo Down pdf.pdf

[Roburt]

Some DJ tips from 1965 that no doubt quickly turned into regional breakouts ......

Dixie Drifter's Roulette 45 was getting a push in various different areas & the airplay it got obviously worked .....

.... as the 45 (by WWRL DJ Enoch Gregory) made it onto the US R&B chart for a 9 week period commencing at the end of August that year

Enoch Gregory passed away in 2000 at the age of 63. The Dixie Drifter was one of New York's great soul DJ's in the 60s & 70s (on WNJR and WWRL). He got his nickname from his birthplace of Hertford, N.C. "I'm the Dixie Drifter, the soul sifter" was one of Gregory's on-air raps. "I comes when I wants to and I leaves when I pleases." He used to end his radio show by saying, "Walk tall and stay loose."

Edited August 30, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Some from December 67 now ..........

[Roburt]

RE: Webs 45 featured in the above post .......

Was there any reasoning why a particular 45 would be issued on Riverside rather than Pop-side by the mid 60's ?? (the Webs on Pop-side; Lou Courtey on Riverside) ..

... and is it known where the Webs tracks were cut ?

I know some of Lou Courtney's stuff was laid down at Gloria Toote's Town Sound Studios in Englewood, NJ but have no idea on the Webs recordings.

[Roburt]

deleted

Edited September 1, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Seems that Popside jumped on the Twist craze back in 1962 ......

... two of their LP's were tipped to sell well by Billboard ....

... not too sure how well these Twist releases actually did though ........

Edited September 1, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

No doubt some of the tracks tipped by these radio station guys went on to become regional breakouts in summer 1968 ....

[Roburt]

Some radio DJ picks back in August 1965 ........

the Contours were always a big live draw in Baltimore, so I guess it's no suprise that their latest 45 was being tipped in that city.

Other cuts being tipped were from Edwin Starr, Barbara Mason, the Autographs, Roy C, the Olympics & Danny White.

[Roburt]

Some of these tracks now making it as Regional Breakouts had started out as local radio stn DJ tips (see earlier posts on this thread) ...

[Roburt]

National & Regional Breakouts on this list .......

[Roburt]

Anyone know much about Karen Small who had a regional breakout 45 ("Boys Are Made To Love") on the west coast in July 1966.

The track went on to be a national R&B hit and even bubbled under the Hoy 100 Pop for a week or so.

She had a follow up 45 later that summer (which Don Julian of the Larks claimed to have written but I guess he might just have found his inspiration in a massive 1964 hit). Her 2nd 45 didn't sell as well and then she was gone ......

Edited February 16, 2013 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Baltimore was always an important 'radio market' for record labels.

If a label could get a track play listed on a Balti R&B station & then it entered the radio chart in the city, they would put a major push behind the 45 in other US cities.

Just check how many breakout 45's were registering in Baltimore back in mid February 1967 ..............