Luther Ingram & The G-Men

[Premium Stuff]

Fabulous version of 'I Spy For The FBI' on Smash.

Maybe Detroit recorded, maybe New York recorded - but sure sounds like perfect Detroit to me - and top credits too.

But who were the G-Men????

Cheers

Richard

[boba]

It's probably some random thing they put on the record as the band name for this song. A G-Man is someone who works for the government. If Luther Ingram spies for the FBI, he is a G-Man.

[Guest]

I think thats the original version if im not mistaken?

[Premium Stuff]

It's probably some random thing they put on the record as the band name for this song. A G-Man is someone who works for the government. If Luther Ingram spies for the FBI, he is a G-Man.

Thanks Bob - all makes sense now.

I just noticed the title on the issue is I Spy (For The FBI) but on the demo it is (I Spy) For The FBI

Cheers

Richard

Edited August 4, 2012 by Premium Stuff

[boba]

I think thats the original version if im not mistaken?

I was sure that the Jamo Thomas version was original but now I have no idea. Both records came out in 1966. The song is written by detroit guys, Jamo's was produced in Chicago, Luther's was produced in New York. Anyone have more info?

[Ian Dewhirst]

I was sure that the Jamo Thomas version was original but now I have no idea. Both records came out in 1966. The song is written by detroit guys, Jamo's was produced in Chicago, Luther's was produced in New York. Anyone have more info?

My guess is Jamo Thomas. It's a classic Chicago jam and with it being on a Chicago indie my guess is that Smash thought they could score some sales if they got a version out quick enough. It probably explains why I've always found this around New York but hardly anywhere else......

Ian D

[boba]

My guess is Jamo Thomas. It's a classic Chicago jam and with it being on a Chicago indie my guess is that Smash thought they could score some sales if they got a version out quick enough. It probably explains why I've always found this around New York but hardly anywhere else......

Ian D

It could also be one of those cases where the publishers were shopping around a song and it got picked up twice at the same time. I'm still trying to figure out how both Ace Spectrum and Bloodstone did "just like in the movies" in 1976 at like exactly the same time.

[Guest trickbag]

yoni has this as a 65 release

(I spy) For the FBI / Foxy Devil - Smash 2019 * 1965 (as Luther Ingram and the G-Men)

The Soul of the Net's

Luther Ingram Discography

although no idea when the thomas issue was released.

polydor was mid 66

ricky.

[Roburt]

It was Jamo's version that escaped from the US first .....

.... His version getting released in the UK, Europe & beyond. Jamo's 45 track was a massive play on British pirate radio stations as a new UK release (I seem to remember that Emperor Rosko used it as his theme tune on his Radio Caroline show for a while).

It was released here on Polydor in 66, reissued in 69 again on Polydor (see attached scan) & then on Mojo in the 70's.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Roburt

[Premium Stuff]

The Jamo Thomas version was one of the first records I ever heard (apart from the usual Motown, Atlantic etc) that got me hooked onto 'Northern'.

I never tire of hearing it today and can still play it more than once in a row

Cheers

Richard

[Robbk]

I remember reading that although Robert Bateman had The Hib Luther Ingram record instrumental tracks recorded in Detroit, BOTH the lead vocals and background vocals AND all instrumental tracks of the Smash record were recorded in New York, produced by Bateman, with Richard Tee arranging. The G-men were just a reference to The FBI. There was no special band (Bateman's usual New York crew (with Richard Tee, pretty Purdie, et al) was used, and the G-Men weren't a special background group.

[dthedrug]

HI ALL.. HOW & WHY This fact only come to lite to us all many years after the Jamo Thomas Hit, amazes me and I only found out as I was listening to the SOUL SHOW on PCRL RADIO (Not sure if it was part of the POPCORN WYLIE INTERVIEW? DAVE Edited August 5, 2012 by dthedrug

[boba]

HI ALL.. HOW & WHY This fact only come to lite to us all many years after the Jamo Thomas Hit, amazes me and I only found out as I was listening to the SOUL SHOW on PCRL RADIO (Not sure if it was part of the POPCORN WYLIE INTERVIEW? DAVE

Hi Dave.Which fact are you referring to? Thanks.

[dthedrug]

Hi Dave.Which fact are you referring to? Thanks.

HI You spotted this DM from me? the fact that the 1st copy to be released was Luther Ingram on SMASH & WAS NOT A HIT, outside of the state, in my opinion both versions are classic, the B side to JAMOS copy "hip mama" is a classic that never gets a spin???? DAVE

[boba]

HI You spotted this DM from me? the fact that the 1st copy to be released was Luther Ingram on SMASH & WAS NOT A HIT, outside of the state, in my opinion both versions are classic, the B side to JAMOS copy "hip mama" is a classic that never gets a spin???? DAVE

I don't think that the Luther Ingram was first. Was it established above? I'm going to look at the deadwax for clues.

[boba]

OK, I still want to check the deadwax for actual release dates but this Bio of Jamo Thomas says it's a cover:

https://www.allmusic....as-mn0001809261

I searched billboard and found a reference to Luther Ingram's version being #17 on a top 40 single sellers chart in the St Louis area on April 9, 1966. I don't understand how this is possible but Jamo Thomas didn't come up in a search.

Edited August 5, 2012 by boba

[boba]

No clues in either deadwax, nothing in the deadwax on the smash 45 and the thomas 45 just has the label #. The smash 45 should be dateable because it is mercury though. There was a reference to Jamo in Billboard, but it was in reference to a 1968 tour (which I guess is more evidence that it was later).

[boba]

I give up in getting definitive evidence. I couldn't find a good way to search radio station charts either. It appears that the luther ingram is probably first though.

[Roburt]

Info on Jamo's early music career (off the net) -- BTW, it seems he was born in the Bahamas ....

Bobby Peterson was a pianist / vocalist from Chester, Pennsylvania, who started out imitating Ray Charles in smoky little bars on the outskirts of Philadelphia. Further musical apprenticeship was served as piano player for a vocal outfit known as the Apollos. In 1958 Bobby teamed up with sax player Joe Pyatt, who needed a singer and key- board player for his new combo and the Bobby Peterson Quintet was born. The other members were David Butler (drums), Chico Green (bass) and JAMO THOMAS (congas and bongo). They made six remarkable singles for Buddy Caldwell's Philly-based V-Tone label between 1959 and 1961, before disbanding permanently in 1962.

The band started to play in clubs with a mixed repertoire of current R&B hits, Ray Charles favorites and a few originals, when Lawrence Kerrin, a local talent scout and promoter, heard them at the Skyway Inn in southwest Philadelphia. Kerrin and Joe Pyatt collaborated writing the Quintet's first single, a simple sax/piano instrumental called "The Hunch". Kerrin introduced the combo to Buddy Caldwell, who operated his new V-Tone and Len labels out of the back of his upholstery store on Ridge Avenue. "The Hunch" (c/w the vocal "Love You Pretty Baby") managed to climb to # 71 on Billboard's national pop charts, but a note-for-note cover by Paul Gayten on the Gordy family's embryonic Anna imprint did slightly better, peaking at # 68 in November 1959.

The quintet followed this up with a powerful two-part instrumental, "Rockin' Charlie", which was used as a theme by ace deejay Jocko Henderson. They began doing one-nighters up and down the eastern seaboard, and were brought to Chicago by Buddy Caldwell to record their third single, the great "Irresistible You" (written by Luther Dixon). This 45 went to # 15 R&B and # 96 pop in the autumn of 1960 (though a pop cover went much higher). The group was now touring all over the country, with stars like Jackie Wilson, Jerry Butler and Smokey Robinson.

"Been Saving My Love For You"/"Three Street" was the fourth V-Tone single for the Bobby Peterson Quintet. Released in early 1961, it sold quite well. Further 45's folowed but the young musicians were already tiring of the hard road life and drummer David Butler chose to settle down and get steady work. Joe Pyatt, the real leader of the group, joined Dave "Baby" Cortez's combo as sax man in 1962, while Chico Green went on to work with Hank Ballard and the Midnighters. Jamo Thomas joined several combos and scored a # 98 pop hit in 1966 with "I Spy For the FBI". Bobby Peterson himself recorded two further singles under his own name for Atlantic and Centaur, and returned to the rounds of Chester's clubs.

It seems that the Quintet continued on after drummer David Butler quit .....

May 1, 1989 -- HASSON WILLIAM MIAH, TOP DRUMMER

Services were to be held today for Hasson William Miah, a professional musician who performed with major artists.

Miah, who died Wednesday, was 51 and formerly from Chester. He lived in Chicago. Miah was a drummer who performed and recorded with the Bobby Peterson Quintet, Jerry Butler, Curtis Mayfield and Philip Upchurch. Born and raised in Chester, Miah began his musical career at the age of 6 on the piano. But by age 13, the lure of playing drums was too strong and he switched instruments.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

"The Hunch" which features Jamo Thomas on percussion ....

Jamo (with the rest of the Quintet) appeared on the American Bandstand TV show on August 22, 1960 (Season 3, Episode 256)

& another incarnation of Jamo's UK 45 (which made the UK pop charts when reissued in 1969) ...

Edited August 5, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

A Bobby Peterson Quintet track (the B side to "The Hunch") that was played at the Wheel (so it says; this was EVEN before my time !!)

MORE INFO OFF THE NET ..... Jamo Thomas came to Chicago during the early '60s and cut his first single Stop the Baby for the Conlo label, produced by Jerry Butler. He moved to the Sound Stage 7 label in 1965, which led to the recording of Bahama Mama in Memphis, which became a hit. In 1966, he met Eddie Thomas, Jerry Butler's former driver and now an executive with ABC-Paramount, who was starting to cut records for his own Thomas label.

In 1966, Jamo Thomas recorded I Spy For the FBI. It was recorded a couple of months after Luther Ingrams & The G-Men had recorded the original version of the song for Smash Records, but it was Jamo's version that had more success, reaching No.98 on the pop chart. Luther Ingrams has said that he believed there had been some sort of a deal between Jamo and the Impressions concerning the record, perhaps something to do with its double release on two separate labels. Jamo's version first came out on St. Lawrence Records in Chicago, before it was released on the Curtom subsidiary label Thomas. Jamo himself was based in Chicago. He worked with Monk Higgins Burgess Gardner and a host of Chicago people associated with Craig-Vee Productions, on St. Lawrence, Satellite, Sack and Thomas Records, Chess and Decca, before moving to Philadelphia, where he recorded for the Perception label, including Shake What You Brought With You and You Just Ain't Ready. Later, Jamo recorded for MCA and Nassau Records.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Some of the info in the above is a bit off (Thomas when established as a label wasn't a subsidiary of Curtom) but much of it rings true ....

Jamo must have been close friends with Eddie Thomas as both toured with Jerry Butler. Jamo led Jerry's road band for a period of time.

Here's a show they did together in March 1965 at the Howard in DC .....

[Dean Rudland]

Roburt

that second bit from the web - The Jamo bit - seems out on a whole host of stuff. Bahama Mama, was after I Spy for instance.

[Roburt]

To say so little seems to be known about Jamo Thomas in the period between him quitting the Bobby Peterson Quintet and having his hit 45 in 1966 ....

... it did appear that he was involved in a few high profile happenings .....

The Paramount Theatre was a noted movie palace located at 43rd Street and Broadway in the Times Square district of New York. Opened in 1926, it was the premiere showcase for Paramount Pictures and also became a popular live performance venue. The theater was closed in Feb 1966 and its space converted to office and retail use. It is featured here in this youtube clip ...

Anyway, at the end of May 1965, the movie 'Black Spurs' (a standard Paramount Western) was showing at the Paramount Theater. Along with the movie, a live show was also staged (probably the last one ever staged there due to the uncertain status of the famous old building). The revue was described as being 'loud and vibrant'. It consisted of the Soul Brothers, nine live acts who performed with two orchestras " these being led by Jamo Thomas and Joe Tex (guess Jamo was fronting Jerry Butler's backing band).

Edited August 5, 2012 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Roburt

that second bit from the web - The Jamo bit - seems out on a whole host of stuff. Bahama Mama, was after I Spy for instance.

Dean, you're right, his SS7 stuff came later .... can't trust everything you read on the net (one of the reasons I stated -- found on the net).

Lots of the info on Jamo that is 'out there' seems a bit confusing .... it's stated in different places that he was born in the Bahamas OR in Chicago. I'd go with the former myself.

From the digging I've done though, he deffo seems to have moved from the Pennsylvania area to Chicago in the early to mid 60's. He hooked up there with the Jerry Butler / Eddie Thomas / Curtis Mayfield crowd and that eventually helped kick off his solo career.

Jerry Butler was almost always on the road in 1965/66 with (no doubt) Jamo leading his backing band during the period up to his 1st St Laurence / Thomas 45 being released. It should be well documented when (during that period) Jerry was back in Chicago recording.No doubt, Jamo laid his St Laurence / Thomas tracks down when he was also 'off the road' and back in Chicago.

From the tour info I posted above, it seems Jerry (with Jamo) was on the road from February to June 1965.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Roburt

[Robbk]

A Bobby Peterson Quintet track (the B side to "The Hunch") that was played at the Wheel (so it says; this was EVEN before my time !!)

MORE INFO OFF THE NET ..... Jamo Thomas came to Chicago during the early '60s and cut his first single Stop the Baby for the Conlo label, produced by Jerry Butler. He moved to the Sound Stage 7 label in 1965, which led to the recording of Bahama Mama in Memphis, which became a hit. In 1966, he met Eddie Thomas, Jerry Butler's former driver and now an executive with ABC-Paramount, who was starting to cut records for his own Thomas label.

In 1966, Jamo Thomas recorded I Spy For the FBI. It was recorded a couple of months after Luther Ingrams & The G-Men had recorded the original version of the song for Smash Records, but it was Jamo's version that had more success, reaching No.98 on the pop chart. Luther Ingrams has said that he believed there had been some sort of a deal between Jamo and the Impressions concerning the record, perhaps something to do with its double release on two separate labels. Jamo's version first came out on St. Lawrence Records in Chicago, before it was released on the Curtom subsidiary label Thomas. Jamo himself was based in Chicago. He worked with Monk Higgins Burgess Gardner and a host of Chicago people associated with Craig-Vee Productions, on St. Lawrence, Satellite, Sack and Thomas Records, Chess and Decca, before moving to Philadelphia, where he recorded for the Perception label, including Shake What You Brought With You and You Just Ain't Ready. Later, Jamo recorded for MCA and Nassau Records.

THIS jibes with my memory of Luther Ingram's Smash record coming out first, and Jamo Thomas' a few months later.

Edited August 5, 2012 by RobbK

[Roburt]

Robb, that DOES SAY .... (Jamo's) was recorded a couple of months after Luther Ingram & The G-Men had recorded the original version of the song for Smash Records !!!!

It seems that Jerry (& Jamo) also gigged in 1965 on a tour with Otis Redding .... see attachment ....

[Ritchieandrew]

Luther Ingram is the Original version, (1965) but due to no U.K. release the U.K. released Jamo Thomas was a massive 60Ts mod hit. We all said at the time that J.T. had some kind of 'fixation' with the Ploice / F.B.I. as he also recorderd "Arrest me" on his Thomas label. The Luther ingram version has been Re - Issued (small Smash text) also the 'B' side is not bad either.!!

Ricardo.

[Roburt]

A South Carolina show at the end of July 65 that the Jerry Butler Orchestra were on ....

[Roburt]

In a run of early B&S mags (around Nos. 16/17/18/19), the full Curtis Mayfield related 1960's recording facts were laid out in a number of tables ....

... date & place that all the Impressions tracks were recorded & the US (& UK) releases the tracks ended up on.

If my memory ain't playing tricks on me, Jerry Butler's recording data was also listed at the end of the series.

[Roburt]

Jamo Thomas seemed to cut his 1st 45 in conjunction with Jerry Butler & the Chicago crowd in 1965.

His Conlo 45 ("Stop The Baby") was released some time in 1965 and was produced by Jerry Butler; it seems certain to me that these tracks just featured Jerry's road band (minus Jerry himself). No doubt, after these tracks were cut, the ensemble went back out touring.

The owner of St Lawrence Records (Dick Simon) helped Eddie Thomas set up Thomas Records .... hence I guess the reason that when "I Spy" was released in the UK by Polydor (in June 66), it was credited as a St Lawrence recording.

Jamo must have been working on tracks with Eddie Thomas before "I Spy" was cut as there is a Sound Plus acetate stamped as belonging to Eddie Thomas of ABC Records ("Okey Dokey Time / Bongos on 2nd Street") up on popsike. Again, I would think that both these tracks just feature Jamo fronting Jerry B's touring band.

[Roburt]

Checked the Radio Caroline charts for June / July 66 and Jamo didn't appear on them (though I recall Rosko playing "I Spy" all the time on his show).

What was in the Caroline charts at that time was .........

JUNE 66: Percy Sledge "Man Loves A Woman" (No.1), Edwin "Stop Her On Sight" (No.12), Stevie Wonder "Nothings Too Good" (No.16) & Roy C's "Rockin Pnemonia" (No.26).

JULY 66: Ike & Tina "River Deep" (No.1) + entries from the likes of James Brown, Robert Parker, Guy Darrell ("I've Been Hurt"), Lee Dorsey, Solomon Burke, Wilson Pickett & Jimmy Beaumont ("You Got Too Much Going On").

[Pete S]

You can see Jamo Thomas performing both Arrest Me and I Spy on The Beat shows.

[Robbk]

A Bobby Peterson Quintet track (the B side to "The Hunch") that was played at the Wheel (so it says; this was EVEN before my time !!)

MORE INFO OFF THE NET ..... Jamo Thomas came to Chicago during the early '60s and cut his first single Stop the Baby for the Conlo label, produced by Jerry Butler. He moved to the Sound Stage 7 label in 1965, which led to the recording of Bahama Mama in Memphis, which became a hit. In 1966, he met Eddie Thomas, Jerry Butler's former driver and now an executive with ABC-Paramount, who was starting to cut records for his own Thomas label.

In 1966, Jamo Thomas recorded I Spy For the FBI. It was recorded a couple of months after Luther Ingrams & The G-Men had recorded the original version of the song for Smash Records, but it was Jamo's version that had more success, reaching No.98 on the pop chart. Luther Ingrams has said that he believed there had been some sort of a deal between Jamo and the Impressions concerning the record, perhaps something to do with its double release on two separate labels. Jamo's version first came out on St. Lawrence Records in Chicago, before it was released on the Curtom subsidiary label Thomas. Jamo himself was based in Chicago. He worked with Monk Higgins Burgess Gardner and a host of Chicago people associated with Craig-Vee Productions, on St. Lawrence, Satellite, Sack and Thomas Records, Chess and Decca, before moving to Philadelphia, where he recorded for the Perception label, including Shake What You Brought With You and You Just Ain't Ready. Later, Jamo recorded for MCA and Nassau Records.

I got the idea that Conlo Productions were located in Philadelphia, and they came about through an association of Chicago people working with Philadelphia people in Philadelphia, rather than Chicago. Most of the "nuts and bolts" recording people and artists came from Philadelphia. I thought this was Jerry Butler and a few of his associates, producing sessions in Philadelphia. The Conlo Records label has a picture of a well-known building in Philadelphia as its logo. Jerry Butler was already working in Philadelphia some in his early period on Mercury starting in 1965. That is the time of Conlo productions on Dee Dee Sharp and The Orlons. Jalynne Music songwriters, such as Barrett Strong, wrote songs used. But, they could have done that in Chicago. But these Conlo recording sessions took place in Philadelphia. I don't remember seeing any Chicago artists on Conlo Records. They were all from The East Coast (seemingly working out of Philadelphia). I also question the comment that Jamo Thomas came to Chicago to record for Conlo in the EARLY '60s. I think Conlo Records started in either 1964 or 1965. And, I suspect that Thomas' Conlo cuts were recorded in Philadelphia. He may have met his Satillite/St. Lawrence connections through Jerry Butler and/or Eddie Thomas, and they were the conduit that got him to Chicago. But, I suspect that he met Jerry Butler while the latter was in Philadelphia, working on his Conlo projects.

Edited August 6, 2012 by RobbK

[Roburt]

Seems that Jamo was still with the Bobby Peterson Quintet in 1962 and was definitely running Jerry Butler's backing band (orchestra) by early 1965.

Now all that has to be worked out is what he was doing in 1963 & 1964 ... PLUS .... when exactly it was he teamed up with Jerry Butler.

I know that the Bobby Peterson Quintet were touring the US in 61/62 on the R&B review shows, so that's probably where Jamo & Jerry met up & became friendly.

[Dave Pinch]

luther version of ISFFBI came out a handful of releases after charlie rich, i cant go on so i have it down as dec 1965.... jamo thomas i have as feb or march 1966.. who wrote snake hip mama?

Edited August 5, 2012 by dave pinch

[Roburt]

luther version of ISFFBI came out a handful of releases after charlie rich, i cant go on so i have it down as dec 1965.... jamo thomas i have as feb or march 1966.. who wrote snake hip mama?

Richard Lovelace & Jon Charles Meadow -- the 1st seems to have been Detroit connected, the second New York.

[dthedrug]

Hi All I need to find that tape interview, PCRL John Weston or Ted M, must remember it. I can't even remember the geezers name who did the show every Sunday? a real nice bloke, anyway whatever Luther Ingram was the 1st release 100% defo! DAVE

[Ian Dewhirst]

Hi All I need to find that tape interview, PCRL John Weston or Ted M, must remember it. I can't even remember the geezers name who did the show every Sunday? a real nice bloke, anyway whatever Luther Ingram was the 1st release 100% defo! DAVE

In which case, this must be one of the rare instances where a first release by a national label got trounced by a cover version on an indie. Interesting stuff. It turned out the exact opposite of what I thought must have happened. I bet Luther was cheesed off......

Ian D

[boba]

In which case, this must be one of the rare instances where a first release by a national label got trounced by a cover version on an indie. Interesting stuff. It turned out the exact opposite of what I thought must have happened. I bet Luther was cheesed off......

Ian D

David Oliver had love tko out before Teddy but Teddy crushed him. it was mercury vs. philadelphia international so two majors.

[Guest]

A nice pair to look at:

[Roburt]

The US city where Luther Ingram was most popular was St Louis (he was based near there).

From the mid 60's right through to his 1st big hit, if one of his 45's was gonna chart anywhere it was in St Louis.

His singles even made it onto the St Louis Pop 45 charts on numerous occasions.

For instance, in October 65, his Decca 45 "You Never Miss Your Water" was listed on the St Louis Pop charts.

Then, after he had signed with Mercury / Smash, his new 45 cut "Foxy Devil" again made the St Louis Pop chart in April 66.

He again charted in the city in 67 with "If It's All The Same To You Babe" on HIB in January 67.

Finally his Ko Ko 45 "Pity For The Lonely" actually charted nationally in 1969, after first being popular in St Louis.

BTW, "Foxy Devil" (Smash 2019) was the other side of "(I Spy) For The FBI". If this 45 first charted in St Louis in mid April 1966, then I doubt it was in the shops as early as December 1965 (unless the local radio DJ's flipped the 45 over after "I Spy" had failed to make any impact locally).

[Roburt]

Smash 2015 by Frankie Valli was released in early January 1966, after James Brown's "Try Me" (Smash 2008) had escaped in early December 1965.

The Walker Brothers 45 "My Ship Is Comin In" (Smash 2016) had hit the shops on 22 January 1966, whilst Smash 2037 -- Frankie Valli's "You're Ready Now" was issued in mid April 1966.

From the above releases I'd say Luther's Smash 45 had been released between mid February & early March 1966.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Roburt

[Dave Pinch]

The US city where Luther Ingram was most popular was St Louis (he was based near there).

From the mid 60's right through to his 1st big hit, if one of his 45's was gonna chart anywhere it was in St Louis.

His singles even made it onto the St Louis Pop 45 charts on numerous occasions.

For instance, in October 65, his Decca 45 "You Never Miss Your Water" was listed on the St Louis Pop charts.

Then, after he had signed with Mercury / Smash, his new 45 cut "Foxy Devil" again made the St Louis Pop chart in April 66.

He again charted in the city in 67 with "If It's All The Same To You Babe" on HIB in January 67.

Finally his Ko Ko 45 "Pity For The Lonely" actually charted nationally in 1969, after first being popular in St Louis.

BTW, "Foxy Devil" (Smash 2019) was the other side of "(I Spy) For The FBI". If this 45 first charted in St Louis in mid April 1966, then I doubt it was in the shops as early as December 1965 (unless the local radio DJ's flipped the 45 over after "I Spy" had failed to make any impact locally).

that was probably the case ..foxy devil is yw1- 37786 and i spy is yw1- 37788.....it could be jan 66 but definately no later.......incidentally this coupling was reissued by mercury/smash in 1969 when he had success in the usa

[Dave Pinch]

Smash 2015 by Frankie Valli was released in early January 1966, after James Brown's "Try Me" (Smash 2008) had escaped in early December 1965.

The Walker Brothers 45 "My Ship Is Comin In" (Smash 2016) had hit the shops on 22 January 1966, whilst Smash 2037 -- Frankie Valli's "You're Ready Now" was issued in mid April 1966.

From the above releases I'd say Luther's Smash 45 had been released between mid February & early March 1966.

this would most likely mean that the song was just being shopped around by the publisher and the artist was unaware of other versions

[Robbk]

The US city where Luther Ingram was most popular was St Louis (he was based near there).

From the mid 60's right through to his 1st big hit, if one of his 45's was gonna chart anywhere it was in St Louis.

His singles even made it onto the St Louis Pop 45 charts on numerous occasions.

For instance, in October 65, his Decca 45 "You Never Miss Your Water" was listed on the St Louis Pop charts.

Then, after he had signed with Mercury / Smash, his new 45 cut "Foxy Devil" again made the St Louis Pop chart in April 66.

He again charted in the city in 67 with "If It's All The Same To You Babe" on HIB in January 67.

Finally his Ko Ko 45 "Pity For The Lonely" actually charted nationally in 1969, after first being popular in St Louis.

BTW, "Foxy Devil" (Smash 2019) was the other side of "(I Spy) For The FBI". If this 45 first charted in St Louis in mid April 1966, then I doubt it was in the shops as early as December 1965 (unless the local radio DJ's flipped the 45 over after "I Spy" had failed to make any impact locally).

I think that must be what happened. I'm sure I bought that record before April, 1966.

[Windlesoul]

Sorry for reviving this one, but on a related theme, a quick question - Jamo Thomas' "Arrest Me" - did this ever get into the US Billboard Hot 100 ?

[Robbk]

What I didn't write above, but thought I had written, was as follows:

 

Robert Bateman had produced Luther Ingram's previous release on HIB Records, and published both sides himself by his Brianbert Music. , and same for Ingram's Smash record.  Bateman, producing both in New York, and in Detroit at that time, got his old Motown colleague, Popcorn Wylie, to write both his HIB and Smash A- sides.  So, it seems that Bateman, in his capacity as an independent producer, got Ingram as a client, and had Wiley write the songs for him.  Given that, in seems most likely that Bateman recorded (and probably released) Ingram's version before Jamo Thomas ever heard the song.  My memory is that I saw (and bought) the Smash record before hearing or seeing the Jamo Thomas record, although the latter was the hit version in Chicago.  It's unlikely to me that Bateman first gave his song to Thomas, after his friend Wylie's previous song had been produced By Bateman and Wylie, and Ingram was still Bateman's artist, and Bateman later recorded and released a version by his own artist, AFTER Thomas was experiencing a national hit with it.  That makes no sense.  That Jamo Thomas or his producer heard Ingram's version first, and Thomas wanted to sing it, and, later had a hit with it, makes a LOT more sense.

[Robbk]

What I would like to know is how Ingram got together with Bateman and Wylie.  Ingram was from a small town in Tennessee, and had been singing in Memphis.  I can't Imagine Wylie being in Memphis in 1965.  Was Ingraham in New York when he met Bateman? Ingram later recorded in Memphis for KoKo Records.  But, h also recorded for Hurdy Gurdy in New York (also Bateman connection).  Did he live in New York for a while?

[Heikki]

Hi!

 

Luther Ingram: "I first met Robert (Bateman) in my home town, in Alton.  He was with Motown at the time.  He later wanted me to come to New York, and he made himself a part of me making a record."

 

Daisy (Luther's sister): "Luther left for New York in 1965, from Illinois.  He spent lots of time in New York during his career, which is why many probably think he lived in New York, but he never actually changed his residence to New York, though you could say New York was like his second home."

 

Luther: "Jamo Thomas recorded I Spy after I recorded it, and it was a deal between Jamo and, I think, the Impressions.  Jamo was a very nice person and I okayed Jamo for the record."

 

(The complete Luther Ingram Story; Soul Express no. 2/2004).

 

Best regards

Heikki