Quinvy Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 Phil, I am shocked that you didn't know "I'm Gone" back in the 70s. Both me and Tony Walker had this at Accy Legion. Dave. I sold up in 75 Dave.
Guest Big Al 68 Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 Most of the " Top 100 " !!! Not because of poor vocal / production qualities etc..........just all over hyped as " MONSTER " or " CLASSIC " yet regurgetated week after week, decade after decade .................loved them all at some time , now they just give me the " nails scratching blackboard " effect.......................but thats just me !!
TommieOnTheSpot Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 Well I can't stand The Greater Experience - Don't Forget To Remember its bloody awful, Della Reese - Clock With No Hands just all round shite, The Carstairs - It Really Hurts Me Girl its a disco record, Wayne Gibson - Under My Thumb sounds like fairground music and Shakers - One Wonderful Moment just don't like and don't get it at all! Personal opinion, sure a lot of you would disagree!
Davetay Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 Yeah, The Carstairs sounds just like Le Freak... :lol:
Guest Droylsdonian Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) So far as management were concerned, WC was nowt more than a disco, so why anyone is in denial that some absolute rubbish stuff was played, to fill the place in the usual commercial idiom, is beyond me. And it was played quite early - no later than summer 75, iirc , once MW & crew realised they had a thing goin' on. Armada Orchestra rippin' off teh Denise La Salle Philly classic, ffs! To what extent the DJs were complicit in/ turned a blind eye to this, I have no idea. Edited July 24, 2012 by Droylsdonian
Davetay Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 I sold up in 75 Dave. Phil, I sold my 1st collection in 76, and started collecting again in 76. This was one of the few records that I never got back. Sold up again in 80 (US singles anyway) Kept UK singles and LPs. Which I having been letting go bit by bit over the years when I needed some cash. Down now to about 1200 singles and about 400 LPs.
macca Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 So far as management were concerned, WC was nowt more than a disco, so why anyone is in denial that some absolute rubbish stuff was played, to fill the place in the usual commercial idiom, is beyond me. And it was played quite early - no later than summer 75, iirc , once MW & crew realised they had a thing goin' on. Armada Orchestra rippin' off teh Denise La Salle Philly classic, ffs! To what extent the DJs were complicit in/ turned a blind eye to this, I have no idea. Even earlier, I think stuff like Keith Daylight Savin' Time, Gary Lewis & The Playboys My Heart Symphony, The Ventures Hawaii 5 O were 1974, PeteS will confirm this. I have great memories of 1975, ´cos it was when I started going up there. I don't think anyone's in denial. There were a quite a few awful records played throughout the venue's history, but also some quite a few fabulous tunes too. The good outstrips the bad in my opinion. We've been here before, ain't we?
boba Posted July 24, 2012 Posted July 24, 2012 nah, dont agree just look at the thread list here https://www.soul-sour...about-the-soul/ last 50 threads - how many are "negative" ? go here https://www.soul-sour...ok-at-your-box/ how many negative threads? are we talking 1 or 2 in last 100 ?? look at this thread its just a knockabout thread sure get various views - some repeated, some off the cuff but its just the same as recent funk one if you actually look at all the comments and take time to read them, then to me it gives a different picture than what you say look at recent posts on this thread discussion has widen beyond the original posters point and some imo interesting and some entertaing discusssion has gone on its just a knockabout thread 1 in a 100 ? we do allow them if get too many of them we do step in my point was not that all threads were negative. it was that (pretty meaningless) threads like this always attract the jump on the bandwagon people who are looking for any excuse to bitch, they get the most participation. like garethx said, most of the records mentioned in this thread are good. worse threads are the one-sided descriptions of being wronged where everyone piles on saying the other party should be stabbed, etc. when the true story might be much different. I'm not telling anyone what they can post or not post or what threads can exist, I am saying that it just sounds like crusty people randomly bitching. On other message boards I'm the crusty negative person. Here it's the opposite which is amusing. This was the first time I've ever been told to leave a message board, which was pretty funny, especially since it was for supposedly telling people what they can or can't post. Even this thread could be more meaningful if people had a discussion about specific records and why they didn't like them or why they do like them, etc. It's just a "I hate this" thread where everyone can jump on and bitch. 2
Mike Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 my point was not that all threads were negative. it was that (pretty meaningless) threads like this always attract the jump on the bandwagon people who are looking for any excuse to bitch, they get the most participation. like garethx said, most of the records mentioned in this thread are good. worse threads are the one-sided descriptions of being wronged where everyone piles on saying the other party should be stabbed, etc. when the true story might be much different. I'm not telling anyone what they can post or not post or what threads can exist, I am saying that it just sounds like crusty people randomly bitching. On other message boards I'm the crusty negative person. Here it's the opposite which is amusing. This was the first time I've ever been told to leave a message board, which was pretty funny, especially since it was for supposedly telling people what they can or can't post. Even this thread could be more meaningful if people had a discussion about specific records and why they didn't like them or why they do like them, etc. It's just a "I hate this" thread where everyone can jump on and bitch. its a just a knockabout thread here today gone tomorrow we get them now and again the title "over rated records" sort of says what gonna get people see it, see first posts and just post up quick sharp posts if you want to expand/improve/steer the discussion then its well easy to do - you just post something that does such people are here to talk and sure they will expand if someone asks posting up cheesy simpsons pics and moaning about posts, members and site aint never going to do that though it just puts peoples backs up and then results in people having a go back at you
boba Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 its a just a knockabout thread here today gone tomorrow we get them now and again the title "over rated records" sort of says what gonna get people see it, see first posts and just post up quick sharp posts if you want to expand/improve/steer the discussion then its well easy to do - you just post something that does such people are here to talk and sure they will expand if someone asks posting up cheesy simpsons pics and moaning about posts, members and site aint never going to do that though it just puts peoples backs up and then results in people having a go back at you other people tried to steer the discussion. anyways, I will no longer tell people that their thread is dumb (although I will respond if a thread is offensive). I can't guarantee I won't post the "old man yells at cloud" pic again though. 1
Guest Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 OK then, mean's I can have 2 goes. The terrible Tribute - Bob Sinclair that is getting plays in both Modern & Northern rooms at the moment. Even heard it played at so called Northern Oldies nights but why oh why? Got a lot of time for Bob Sinclair who own's Defected records but who mysteriously does not sing or play on this & also Ron Caroll who does but this is just a terribly poor supposed Soulful House record that should be hidden away for eternity. Even when DJ's do play it be it at a Northern, Modern or Northern Oldies night they have to make excuses for playing it like 'Marmite record', 'love it or hate it' etc. PS, for those that don't know me I'm not having a dig at Soulful House as it's part of the whole scene I love (Soulful Dance music from any era be it 60's up to present day releases). Eh? I thought Defected was owned by Simon Dunmore (old 100club goer) Bob Sinclair owns Yellow recs in France. But yeah it's a God awful record
Quinvy Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Phil, I sold my 1st collection in 76, and started collecting again in 76. This was one of the few records that I never got back. Sold up again in 80 (US singles anyway) Kept UK singles and LPs. Which I having been letting go bit by bit over the years when I needed some cash. Down now to about 1200 singles and about 400 LPs. What I meant was, I sold up and left the scene before records like I'm Gone were played. 1
Steve G Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Yeah, The Carstairs sounds just like Le Freak... Tom Moulton's first production he says.
Kegsy Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Thank you for explaining, not too difficult to add something worthwhile other than implying that anyone who does like the record is a feckless twat that can't think for themselves and only look at the price tag, aka they aren't as special as you. Which I repeat in the case of that record is just a stupid point scoring exercise hence my scorn at your response. However spoiled by the rather typical comment later that since it wasn't played for a week in 1973 it can't be any good! Hmmm I give up. . I dont think I implied anything about anybody or their particular tastes. I just said I thought I'm Gone was overrated, and totally overplayed I might add. As to why it wasnt massive in the early/mid seventies,even though it was known, I can only assume this is because there were lots of far superior records being played. If you also think that certain DJ's dont ONLY play records due to their rarity rather their quality, then I'm afraid you may be a touch naive.Its always happened. Kegsy
Steve G Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Most of the " Top 100 " !!! Not because of poor vocal / production qualities etc..........just all over hyped as " MONSTER " or " CLASSIC " yet regurgetated week after week, decade after decade .................loved them all at some time , now they just give me the " nails scratching blackboard " effect.......................but thats just me !! And that's the tragedy. A lot of em are pretty good records, but honestly I am so friggin bored of hearing them. I've got virtually all of them, and I NEVER play them. They just sit there doing nothing. Frankly if you know all the words to a song, it's time to move on to another one. So far as management were concerned, WC was nowt more than a disco, so why anyone is in denial that some absolute rubbish stuff was played, to fill the place in the usual commercial idiom, is beyond me. And it was played quite early - no later than summer 75, iirc , once MW & crew realised they had a thing goin' on. This is a good point. Those that put WC on a pedestal as the "ultimate of ultimates" need to keep this in mind. There was a clamour to play new stuff, and a few DJs aside (Richard etc.) most others couldn't keep up with the frequency. But it was a money spinner and a good "thang" for the guys running (and coining) it. Most of us were just kids who were caught up in the atmosphere / vibe, "KTF" "We're not divvies" etc. I am even pretty sure I danced to Helen Shapiro and Burning Bush - yikes! Until I realised..... Edited July 25, 2012 by Steve G
Daved Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Records I've never liked are: Frankie & The Classicals (or Laura Greene or any other version) Candy & The Kisses - Out On The Streets DJ Genesis - Tribute To Betty (see Cunnie's Bob Sinclair's post!) Wynder K. Frogg ( I heard Shakin' Stevens version first) Joey Deleronzo I love The Parliaments though as per Paul T-P and Chalky. Also Big Joe Turner and Tony Middleton (TTEOTE) One record I used to hate but now really love is Roy Hamilton's "The Panic Is On" 1
Steve G Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) I think Frankie & Johnny is one of the best UK produced records of the entire 60's, not necessarily as a Soul or Northern Soul record, just as a record, it's stupendous. Why they put it on a B side I'll never know. I agree with you. Superb, but I don't want to hear it out. And such a tragic story about the non Maggie Bell (?) singer (Johnny?) geting knocked off his moped and dying. But on the plus side it has denied us the horrific prospect of some promotor putting them on as a "live act" at a weekender and them doing a 15 minute version Edited July 25, 2012 by Steve G
Roburt Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) RE: Frankie & Johnny -- the horrific prospect of some promotor putting them on as a "live act" at a weekender and them doing a 15 minute version ............ the very propect sends a shiver down my spine ..... God, it would put me off attending weekenders for life !!! If I ever hear the record agin in the next 20 years (or during my whole life), it will be too soon. ...... For weekender acts ........ I'd rather watch Kegsy trying to impersonate Dean Parrish than see some of the acts who had big sounds at the Casino (WiganStompas R'n'tUs). Edited July 25, 2012 by Roburt
Guest in town Mikey Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I'm obviously a little tup in the head, BUT If I went to a night that played everyone of these 'overrated' horrors. I would have a billion times more fun, than had I just gone down the pub and got smashed, or went to a club with my workmates. Yes even if they played the Professionals 3 times. I often need a wee when out dancing.
macca Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Tom Moulton's first production he says. That's ironic, isn't it? Just read that Le Freak is Atlantic's biggest selling single.
Pete S Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I agree with you. Superb, but I don't want to hear it out. And such a tragic story about the non Maggie Bell (?) singer (Johnny?) geting knocked off his moped and dying. But on the plus side it has denied us the horrific prospect of some promotor putting them on as a "live act" at a weekender and them doing a 15 minute version Johnny Curtis. I never think about these records in a playing out context anymore, I know what I like and I like this. I love 60's pop music and I love Northern Soul so when you get the combination of the two it's inevitable that I'm going to like a lot of those as well. Not saying they should be on a list of everyones classics, just that I like them. I thought that version that came out a year or two was brilliant, where they were singing it live for a TV show, no strings available but still a great version. And what an archive find. 1
Corbett80 Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I am saying that it just sounds like crusty people randomly bitching. That's not just the soul scene, thats the whole of the UK you've just described. 2
Ian Dewhirst Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Johnny Curtis. I never think about these records in a playing out context anymore, I know what I like and I like this. I love 60's pop music and I love Northern Soul so when you get the combination of the two it's inevitable that I'm going to like a lot of those as well. Not saying they should be on a list of everyones classics, just that I like them. I thought that version that came out a year or two was brilliant, where they were singing it live for a TV show, no strings available but still a great version. And what an archive find. I'm exactly the same. I can forgive a white voice if the production is incredible -"I'm Gonna Change", "I Can't Help Loving You", "I'm On My Way" etc, etc, so the gap between great 60's and 70's Pop productions and traditional Northern Soul is not that wide to many from that era. In some cases, the UK production is vastly superior to the U.S. production, for example, the Love Affair's version of "Everlasting Love" kills the insipid limp original version by Robert Knight and I prefer Steve Ellis's vocals to Robert Knight's as well. Heresy ay? Ian D 1
Guest Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 some people may find this hard to believe but ive never been moved by "SO IS THE SUN" -WORLD COLUMN. Probably because its complete and utter shite!!.............just like Frankie Effin Crocker`s Ton of Dinosaurshite! As far removed from soul as you can get.
Pete S Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Probably because its complete and utter shite!!.............just like Frankie Effin Crocker`s Ton of Dinosaurshite! As far removed from soul as you can get. But two of the best Northern Soul records ever played...
Guest soulboymick Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Billy Arnell, Beverly Ann(both), Troy Dodds, Larry Trider, Drifters-Drip Drop, Dean Barlow,
macca Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 But would one consider Dean's voice a white voice? He certainly fooled a lot of black audiences back in the mid 60s... I, along with many others, I'll wager, was convinced he was black till he surfaced...
Popular Post Jumpinjoan Posted July 25, 2012 Popular Post Posted July 25, 2012 Eddie Parker overrated and overplayed? Could maybe understand people not liking it (well, no I can't really) but overrated and overplayed? Wish I heard it everytime I went out! 5
macca Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Probably because its complete and utter shite!!.............just like Frankie Effin Crocker`s Ton of Dinosaurshite! As far removed from soul as you can get. You're 'avin' us on!!
Guest Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Still haven't convinced me or maybe I have no taste? Or maybe your ears are painted on?
Spacehopper Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 i know ill get slated cos i have when ive put this on similiar threads....just loving you-ruby andrews... yep i know its a' well made soulful tune and she has a great voice' but that could be thousands of other records.... to me its.. just ok...im bored with it when i hear it out but its always only been ok.. to me its overated because it has none of the excitement some of the other maybe overplayed tunes already mentioned...or a melody that gives you goosebumps...but it still fills a floor...and i cant see why dean 1
Guest Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Billy Davis - "Get Spunky" or whatever its called as musically tasteful as a road drill. Edited July 25, 2012 by Guest
Bazza Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Well , I think Mel Brit - She'll Come Running Back is very over rated Bazza Edited July 25, 2012 by Bazza
Guest Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 But two of the best Northern Soul records ever played... I agree with every aspect of that statement apart from the words.
Pete S Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 i know ill get slated cos i have when ive put this on similiar threads....just loving you-ruby andrews... yep i know its a' well made soulful tune and she has a great voice' but that could be thousands of other records.... to me its.. just ok...im bored with it when i hear it out but its always only been ok.. to me its overated because it has none of the excitement some of the other maybe overplayed tunes already mentioned...or a melody that gives you goosebumps...but it still fills a floor...and i cant see why dean Agree with every word you say here.
Ian Dewhirst Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 But would one consider Dean's voice a white voice? He certainly fooled a lot of black audiences back in the mid 60s... I, along with many others, I'll wager, was convinced he was black till he surfaced... When I first heard "Determination", Dean Parrish became my favourite Soul singer virtually overnight! I always assumed he was black until an older collector from Dewsbury informed me he was white! Didn't stop me loving his voice. Still brilliant some 40+ years later. In fact, I just used it on my latest comp..... Ian D
Simsy Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Agree with every word you say here. This may be true. However like Billy Watkins there are hidden rude messages in Just Loving You. You listen, 2 minutes and 17 secs in the below clip, "such a tit head" ... You've gotta respect that? 2
Easty Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Eddie Parker I'm Gone Well and truly overrated, probably due to rarity. Kegsy Sorry Kegsy, can't agree with that one. It's one of those sounds where when you hear the first couple of bars you stop the conversation you're having and hit the floor. Easty 1
Winnie :-) Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 i know ill get slated cos i have when ive put this on similiar threads....just loving you-ruby andrews... yep i know its a' well made soulful tune and she has a great voice' but that could be thousands of other records.... to me its.. just ok...im bored with it when i hear it out but its always only been ok.. to me its overated because it has none of the excitement some of the other maybe overplayed tunes already mentioned...or a melody that gives you goosebumps...but it still fills a floor...and i cant see why dean I find it tedious, and talking of over rated, Jeanette comes into that sphere for me as well, I think because of it's popularity I compared it to what I consider classic sounds and thought it came up short.
Guest in town Mikey Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Eddie Parker is a fave of mine. What attracted me to it when i first discovered Northern Soul, was what some have said on here puts them off. I love the fact it sounds like it was recorded in his garage, like 'Cool Off'. I came into Northern Soul through discovering Tamla Motown. And while to this day I still love virtually every 60s recording that label has published. Then I loved the Northern scene leading me to other soul tracks that didnt have the clout to produce a record with the same vava voom of a Supremes recording. It was, and often still is, part of the magic of a record, that tells a story that I've come to love. The story of an act trying their hardest to get their song recorded. And it stirs the imagination of the journey the song has been on. I was talking to a friend recently and was telling her the best part of the Northern Soul scene is the guys and girls who recorded these songs, getting to know that they were, and still are loved. And while that cant bring the riches of a George Benson to guys like Eddie Parker. It can at least give them a sense that their music was loved. Not something you can place a price on. There is something magic about a song that hasnt had the breaks, yet thanks to the guys at the front of this scene who have been crate digging, warehouse searching, and anal explorers, those songs get their day in the sun. If the Northern Soul scene were to demand the kind of production you get on some of the major labels. It wouldnt be what it is IMO. And Eddie Parker, straining to get his voice over the Pontiac, into the Mic next to his basketball hoop, captures this beutifully. With the urgency of a tortured soul, and a dance beat to get the pulse racing. Its just Northern Soul perfection IMO. Edited July 25, 2012 by in town Mikey
Bazza Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Eddie Parker is a fave of mine. What attracted me to it when i first discovered Northern Soul, was what some have said on here puts them off. I love the fact it sounds like it was recorded in his garage, like 'Cool Off'. I came into Northern Soul through discovering Tamla Motown. And while to this day I still love virtually every 60s recording that label has published. Then I loved the Northern scene leading me to other soul tracks that didnt have the clout to produce a record with the same vava voom of a Supremes recording. It was, and often still is, part of the magic of a record, that tells a story that I've come to love. The story of an act trying their hardest to get their song recorded. And it stirs the imagination of the journey the song has been on. I was talking to a friend recently and was telling her the best part of the Northern Soul scene is the guys and girls who recorded these songs, getting to know that they were, and still are loved. And while that cant bring the riches of a George Benson to guys like Eddie Parker. It can at least give them a sense that their music was loved. Not something you can place a price on. There is something magic about a song that hasnt had the breaks, yet thanks to the guys at the front of this scene who have been crate digging, warehouse searching, and anal explorers, those songs get their day in the sun. If the Northern Soul scene were to demand the kind of production you get on some of the major labels. It wouldnt be what it is IMO. And Eddie Parker, straining to get his voice over the Pontiac, into the Mic next to his basketball hoop, captures this beutifully. With the urgency of a tortured soul, and a dance beat to get the pulse racing. Its just Northern Soul perfection IMO. Well said Mikey,nice post Bazza
Guest in town Mikey Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Cheers Baz. I should say it wasnt recoded in his garage, it just sounds like that. It spuured my imagination. Another plus for the record.
Ted Massey Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Eddie Parker is a fave of mine. What attracted me to it when i first discovered Northern Soul, was what some have said on here puts them off. I love the fact it sounds like it was recorded in his garage, like 'Cool Off'. I came into Northern Soul through discovering Tamla Motown. And while to this day I still love virtually every 60s recording that label has published. Then I loved the Northern scene leading me to other soul tracks that didnt have the clout to produce a record with the same vava voom of a Supremes recording. It was, and often still is, part of the magic of a record, that tells a story that I've come to love. The story of an act trying their hardest to get their song recorded. And it stirs the imagination of the journey the song has been on. I was talking to a friend recently and was telling her the best part of the Northern Soul scene is the guys and girls who recorded these songs, getting to know that they were, and still are loved. And while that cant bring the riches of a George Benson to guys like Eddie Parker. It can at least give them a sense that their music was loved. Not something you can place a price on. There is something magic about a song that hasnt had the breaks, yet thanks to the guys at the front of this scene who have been crate digging, warehouse searching, and anal explorers, those songs get their day in the sun. If the Northern Soul scene were to demand the kind of production you get on some of the major labels. It wouldnt be what it is IMO. And Eddie Parker, straining to get his voice over the Pontiac, into the Mic next to his basketball hoop, captures this beutifully. With the urgency of a tortured soul, and a dance beat to get the pulse racing. Its just Northern Soul perfection IMO. Good post Mikey I nearly always finish my set with it and the response is always amazing. i have even had some one request by the record number Awake 502.
Kegsy Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Eddie Parker overrated and overplayed? Could maybe understand people not liking it (well, no I can't really) but overrated and overplayed? Wish I heard it everytime I went out! Ok, is it a better record than Love You Baby ??? Kegsy
Guest Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Phil, I am shocked that you didn't know "I'm Gone" back in the 70s. Both me and Tony Walker had this at Accy Legion. Dave. We played the Billy Sharae version before EPs, around 1972. I bought it from a barrow boy on either Gt Windmil or Wardour st. Cajun Hart is the dogs bollocks by the way!
Jumpinjoan Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 Ok, is it a better record than Love You Baby ??? Kegsy Absolutely! Jeez
Garethx Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Ok, is it a better record than Love You Baby ??? Kegsy To my ears it is a better record than "Love You Baby" in practically every department. That's not to say LYB is a poor disc, it's great too. The only thing that's ever held "Gone" back is a shortage of copies. Edited July 25, 2012 by garethx
Guest Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 I stopped once to listen to Geoffrey Meteliko's version - very painful !!! is that the one Levine once raved about? I think he played it on Searlings show about 10 years ago and I thought it was an April Fool joke. Complete crap!
Epic Posted July 25, 2012 Posted July 25, 2012 is that the one Levine once raved about? I think he played it on Searlings show about 10 years ago and I thought it was an April Fool joke. Complete crap! Yes - Yes & Yes !!!!!
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