Just One Falsetto

[Garethx]

Anyone see this last night?

Interesting up to a point but with several things that jarred for me. Too much time spent with the latest incarnation of the Four Freshmen, none of whom appear to sing in falsetto as far as I can see or hear. Too much of Brian May, who spent ten minutes talking about Freddie Mercury after conceding that Roger Taylor had the better falsetto voice.

Eddie Holman was interviewed and declared his falsetto to be world class, something presenter Alan Yentob seemed to patronisingly and sneeringly almost allow him.

Some good things though. Nice to see some time devoted to the current crop of Violinaires.

The best thing about it was that it led me to this youtube clip of Eddie Holman doing "Hey There Lonely Girl" on some US Oldies special, a brief snippet of which was used in the programme.

[media=]

Some of the singing where he's jamming at the end actually bought an involuntary lump to my throat and a tear to my eye. That is truly world class, backing up Eddie's claim in the programme that "If I can think it, I can sing it" and makes Russell Tompkins of The Stylistics voice sound like the reedy novelty instrument that it probably is.

Edited July 11, 2012 by garethx

[binsy]

I didn't see the programme last night Gareth but I do remember seeing Eddie Holman sing live at Stafford in the 80s and can testify that we was fantastic vocally and had a very good range.

[Mickjay33]

what a voice saw him live at southport 2 years ago still sounded as good just brill and Russell Tompkins was on the same bill

[Scotters]

Yes I watched most of this and was good to learn some new things + see and hear the Violinaires in particular + older gospel clips & Earth Wind & Fire footage. Actually quite enjoyed hearing what the young choir lads had to say in the UK as whilst not my cup of tea in terms of listening to that, they sure are devoted and committed too.

Was interesting to hear Eddie Holman say confidently that he's one of the greatest falsetto's of all time!

I was half hoping that someone "current" like JC Brooks would get a brief interview as I think his voice is amazing on the recentish cover of the Kaldirons track..To love someone (that don't love you), as well as other releases.

Cheers, Steve.

PS...I tried to see if I have a falsetto range and the answer is firmly not. I think I woke half the neighbours up in the process and half scared myself

[Pete S]

I'm not too keen on falsetto voices though Eddie Holman is an exception.

I really like Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons Greatest Hits as well.

[boba]

I don't have access to the show you're talking about but one of the sickest things I've seen is a delfonics clip where you can almost "see" the falsetto over a sparse backing. It's from this episode but they were doing a different song, they don't really do it on this track.

there is also an awesome black ivory performance from this show

[boba]

here is the black ivory

check out those suits

[Mark Jones]

Do like a bit of falsetto and of course Eddie Holman is the epitome of the genre in my opinion for what it's worth.

Mind you this band did ok with their number one album in 75

Here the link to Just One falsetto on iPlayer https://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b01ktckz

[media=]

Weird......... just watched it and Yentob went from Eddie to Stylistics too!

Edited July 12, 2012 by soulechoes

[boba]

Here the link to Just One falsetto on iPlayer https://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b01ktckz

It's blocked in the US, I can't watch it. They have to do that because the tracks and footage shown were only licensed for the UK.

Also, not trying to be a jerk or nitpick, but the Stylistics aren't a "band" they are a vocal group. I think it's an important distinction that lots of people who say band don't understand ... not saying you don't understand it, I just think it's important in the understanding of this genre to be precise about that. Thanks.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

...and makes Russell Tompkins of The Stylistics voice sound like the reedy novelty instrument that it probably is.

I've never had occasion to call you out for talking b*ll*cks before, Gareth, but there's a first time for everything.

'Stop Look, Listen', 'Break Up To Make Up', 'You Are Everything', 'If I Loved You', 'People Make The World Go Round', 'You're A Big Girl Now', 'Children Of The Night', ''You Make Me Feel Brand New' , 'Point Of No Return', 'Betcha By Golly Wow' and any of the other classics that Thom Bell fashioned for the Stylistics are not fronted by a 'reedy novelty instrument' (probably)...

Not in any way, shape or form.

They are in fact some of the greatest vocal group records of the 1970s. The fact that several of them made the charts and therefore compromises some collectors' appreciation of Russell Thompkins' sublime voice does nothing to alter that and never will...

[boba]

Russell Thompkins could sing well. He may not have been the best falsetto in soul music but he clearly was the most successful. There's a weird quality to his voice where he never goes out of falsetto mode even when he hits the lower notes (Eddie Holman would switch in and out). I think that really defined a unique sound for him, and is what garethx is calling "reedy". I think this style of singing really matched the pop-oriented songs that they did. It's jarring when you hear a singer switch from singing baritone to falsetto.

There is a big feud between Russell and the rest of the original Stylistics. They (I guess specifically Airron Love) kicked him out, took control over the name, and his new group is the "New Stylistics". They stylistics are not the stylistics without Russell, he was the whole sound.

[boba]

Russell Thompkins could sing well. He may not have been the best falsetto in soul music but he clearly was the most successful. There's a weird quality to his voice where he never goes out of falsetto mode even when he hits the lower notes (Eddie Holman would switch in and out). I think that really defined a unique sound for him, and is what garethx is calling "reedy". I think this style of singing really matched the pop-oriented songs that they did. It's jarring when you hear a singer switch from singing baritone to falsetto.

I thought about this more, Russell was not unique in always singing falsetto in all ranges (for example, the Delfonics did this). But his specific voice matched the pop songs perfectly which I think resulted in their success. I can't imagine the Delfonics doing the Stylistics hits and having pop hits with them. I think their voices are too soulful to be poppy.

There is a lost stylistics LP recorded before Avco. "You're a big girl now" is my favorite record they did. I would love to hear the lost LP, I'm sure it's killer. They were managed by the dudes who managed the precisions (hen-mar group) and also early sister sledge (they put out their first record pre-atlantic).

[Keithw]

thought Eddie came over a bit big headed to be honest

saw him @ Stafford top of the world , he was brilliant ,prefer the more beefy end of the scale really

e.g george blackwell - roy hamilton - edward hamilton

but do LUV -------- phil perry , sam dees (GOD) - while im on are there any internet stations playing old soul - modern in usa

thar are of interest to us northern dudes

Edited July 12, 2012 by keithw

[Garethx]

I've never had occasion to call you out for talking b*ll*cks before, Gareth, but there's a first time for everything.

'Stop Look, Listen', 'Break Up To Make Up', 'You Are Everything', 'If I Loved You', 'People Make The World Go Round', 'You're A Big Girl Now', 'Children Of The Night', ''You Make Me Feel Brand New' , 'Point Of No Return', 'Betcha By Golly Wow' and any of the other classics that Thom Bell fashioned for the Stylistics are not fronted by a 'reedy novelty instrument' (probably)...

Not in any way, shape or form.

They are in fact some of the greatest vocal group records of the 1970s. The fact that several of them made the charts and therefore compromises some collectors' appreciation of Russell Thompkins' sublime voice does nothing to alter that and never will...

It was a bit of a rank full toss and I expected someone (probably you Tony) to hit it out of the ground.

There is probably a whole programme about falsetto singing specifically within black music which this particular programme necessarily skirted around because it was wider in scope.

This kind of singing at its best could be explosive, highly sexually charged, even confrontational: think of the fire of a Ted Taylor or a Bobby Foster or Freddie Hughes or Bloodstone's Henry Williams. Or maybe potentially the greatest of them all, Carl Hall. Compared to those voices Tompkins was indeed calmer and may have been the correct vehicle to get the style into the living rooms of white America.

Edited July 12, 2012 by garethx

[John Reed]

Falsetto Northern, the next avenue to venture down after Funky Northern has run its course?

Edited July 12, 2012 by John Reed

[Tobytyke]

Ted Mills of Blue Magic would take some beating." Loneliest House on the Block" "Just Dont want to be lonely". "Sideshow". "Stop to start" to name but a few

[Daved]

Eddie Kendricks has got be one of the best, hasn't he? David Peaston too - but not very prolific.

[boba]

Falsetto Northern, the next avenue to venture down after Funky Northern has run its course?

One of my favorite records of all time is Johnny and the Expressions "shy girl". Not fast enough to be northern I guess, but boys and girls together is.

I don't understand the Sam Dees thing mentioned above though. What tracks does he sing falsetto on?

[Daved]

I don't understand the Sam Dees thing mentioned above though. What tracks does he sing falsetto on?

I wondered that too Bob

[John Reed]

I don't understand the Sam Dees thing mentioned above though. What tracks does he sing falsetto on?

He goes quite high on "It's So Wonderful" but not really falsetto

Edited July 13, 2012 by John Reed

[Guest Paul]

Hello

Pure falsetto can become a bit tiring on the ear after a while unless accompanied by lower octave harmonies etc.

So I prefer singers who can cover a wide range so the very high parts are only used for effect or contrast in certain parts of a song.

Good examples (or at least some of my favourites) are Al Green and the late Howard Tate who really knew just when and where to sing (or scream) really high - and the effect was dramatic.

Freddie Hughes is another good example, just listen to 'He's No Good' or 'Sarah Mae' to hear the amazing contrasts.

Not to forget GC Cameron who has an amazing range and technically is one of the finest vocalists of his time.

Paul

[Kev Cane]

Hello

Pure falsetto can become a bit tiring on the ear after a while unless accompanied by lower octave harmonies etc.

So I prefer singers who can cover a wide range so the very high parts are only used for effect or contrast in certain parts of a song.

Good examples (or at least some of my favourites) are Al Green and the late Howard Tate who really knew just when and where to sing (or scream) really high - and the effect was dramatic.

Freddie Hughes is another good example, just listen to 'He's No Good' or 'Sarah Mae' to hear the amazing contrasts.

Not to forget GC Cameron who has an amazing range and technically is one of the finest vocalists of his time.

Paul

Hi Paul, "He,s no good" what a record

Kev

[Guest Paul]

...and how could I forget Donnie Elbert, one of the most underrated artists of all.

He wasn't always consistent with material or high quality with recordings but he was very gifted and if he'd ever had a real budget and serious promotion he could have been a real giant.

Paul

[Kev Cane]

...and how could I forget Donnie Elbert, one of the most underrated artists of all.

He wasn't always consistent with material or high quality with recordings but he was very gifted and if he'd ever had a real budget and serious promotion he could have been a real giant.

Paul

Yes Paul, the flip tp "Get Myself Together" "Can,t get over losing you" is brilliant, another big fave of mine in the same vein, Ralfi Pagan, all his stuff on Fania is superb, and theres loads of it

Kev

[Garethx]

All good choices Paul. John Edwards was also an artist capable of switching from a fully fledged roar to the sweetest and most flexible of falsettos.

[Garethx]

Ralfi Pagan had an incredible voice. "Don't Stop Now" the flip of his RCA single as 'Ray Paige' is a Little Anthony tribute that's maybe better than the real thing!

Edited July 13, 2012 by garethx

[John Reed]

_{David Oliver gives it some on Private Tonight and not forgetting the Great Rance Allen}

[Garethx]

Indeed John. Rance Allen may be the standard bearer of this sound at its most powerful and creative.

[Guest Paul]

Yes Paul, the flip tp "Get Myself Together" "Can,t get over losing you" is brilliant, another big fave of mine in the same vein, Ralfi Pagan, all his stuff on Fania is superb, and theres loads of it

Kev

Hello Kev,

I love 'Can't Get Over Losing You', also 'That's If You Love Me and 'If I Can't Have You' - three of my biggest favourites. They prove that Donnie was also a great writer and producer who could create intense moods - more solitude than loneliness.

And I guessed a man with your taste would like 'He's No Good' by Freddie Hughes, one of the greatest vocal performances of all time.

I have some Ralfi Pagan records but I'll dig a bit deeper.

Al Green, Howard Tate, Freddie Hughes, Donnie Elbert and GC Cameron came to mind first but I should have also mentioned Don Covay because he also has a very wide range and amazing expression. The brilliant 'Leave Him' is the best example.

I'm glad Gareth mentioned John Edwards and Rance Allen (also mentioned by John) because they really should have come to mind.

'Thank You Lord' is probably my favourite Rance Allen track.

I grew up loving John Edwards' brilliant Aware album but I think my favourite is the Cotillion track 'Nobody But You' which was a subtle work of art produced by David Porter and probably one of the last real soul records ever made.

By the way, another of my favourite "John Edwards" tracks is the much overlooked 'Now That You're Mine Again' which of course is by The Spinners on Atlantic from 1980 but it's virtually a John Edwards solo performance. It even has a dated southern feel and was different to everything else on the album at the time, now it sounds even better and really should be heard by any John Edwards fans who might not be familiar with it.

Sorry if I've wandered from the main topic a bit.

Paul

[Kev Cane]

Ralfi Pagan had an incredible voice. "Don't Stop Now" the flip of his RCA singles as 'Ray Paige' is a Little Anthony tribute that's maybe better than the real thing!

Hi Gareth, if you don,t have it, go onto Youtube and play "Darling, you and I" absolutely magnificent and "Just for a little while".

Kev

[Kev Cane]

Hello Kev,

I love 'Can't Get Over Losing You', also 'That's If You Love Me and 'If I Can't Have You' - three of my biggest favourites. They prove that Donnie was also a great writer and producer who could create intense moods - more solitude than loneliness.

And I guessed a man with your taste would like 'He's No Good' by Freddie Hughes, one of the greatest vocal performances of all time.

I have some Ralfi Pagan records but I'll dig a bit deeper.

Al Green, Howard Tate, Freddie Hughes, Donnie Elbert and GC Cameron came to mind first but I should have also mentioned Don Covay because he also has a very wide range and amazing expression. The brilliant 'Leave Him' is the best example.

I'm glad Gareth mentioned John Edwards and Rance Allen (also mentioned by John) because they really should have come to mind.

'Thank You Lord' is probably my favourite Rance Allen track.

I grew up loving John Edwards' brilliant Aware album but I think my favourite is the Cotillion track 'Nobody But You' which was a subtle work of art produced by David Porter and probably one of the last real soul records ever made.

By the way, another of my favourite "John Edwards" tracks is the much overlooked 'Now That You're Mine Again' which of course is by The Spinners on Atlantic from 1980 but it's virtually a John Edwards solo performance. It even has a dated southern feel and was different to everything else on the album at the time, now it sounds even better and really should be heard by any John Edwards fans who might not be familiar with it.

Sorry if I've wandered from the main topic a bit.

Paul

Wander as much as you like for me Paul with examples like that, "Thank you lord" is not of this earth (no pun intended) have it on album with the brilliant "I know a man" and are regular players in here. John Edwards "Excercise my love" is a particular love of mine among many from him, his version of "Danny Boy" is also incredible. No, keep wandering gents

Kev

[John Reed]

Kaleidoscope on TSOP for a bit of disco. The John Edwards Cottillion LP is brilliant and over shadowed by his Aware LP, because it's a masterpiece

[Guest Paul]

Hi Gareth, if you don,t have it, go onto Youtube and play "Darling, you and I" absolutely magnificent and "Just for a little while".

Kev

Great track, Kev, I wasn't familiar with it. 'Loneliest Loneliness' was one of my faves, I also like 'I Can't See Myself Without You' and the UK Island single and a few others but I need to go back and hear more tracks by Ralfi.

Paul

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

One of my favourite records ever, one of the greatest falsettos ever in Dave Richardson....

Oh and a big shout out to Rondalis Tandy, too...

Two of the greatest singers you'll ever hear on any record, any time

[Garethx]

Two sublime selections.

[boba]

Just to clarify, falsetto does not just mean singing in a high register. A man can have a weird voice where he can sing high without going into falsetto and like i mentioned above, you can sing falsetto for lower notes. It's a specific technique in your vocal chords (if you want a complicated explanation see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsetto).

Heart full of love was their biggest hit (and is great), but this is my favorite invincibles track, it's even a cover and they destroy any other version. The falsetto over that guitar and sparse production is amazing (unfortunately this is slightly sped up):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNKXCRGmQcE

[Garethx]

Yes, falsetto is specifically a 'false' or 'head' voice which is the result of using the vocal chords in a different way to the manner in which the singer's normal range would be produced.

I mentioned Carl Hall above and wonder whether he was a 'true' falsetto singer after all as his voice covered an abnormally large range pretty naturally (supposedly four octaves). In the gospel world he was known as a sopranist and his parts for The Rasberry Singers were written in a range normally reserved for female sopranos. Why not simply use a female singer for those parts? The grit and excitement which the best of these kinds of singers could summon (alongside the sweetness) in gospel was one of the highlights of the art form in the mid 20th Century.

The BBC programme actually covered the technical side of it all pretty well. Where it really fell down was rushing through the history on both the pop or R&B side and making some glaring omissions. No mention of Eddie Kendricks on one hand or The Delfonics on the other. Without Kendricks I don't know that the falsetto lead would have been quite such a widespread sound in American R&B. Without The Delfonics there would arguably have been no crossover hit records for The Stylistics.

[boba]

Another example of someone who probably was not doing falsetto but who just had a high voice was Nolan Strong. I think the Diablos backing harmony had to be falsetto though.

Falsetto was already prominent in the doowop era, it was part of R&B before the temptations were around (even pop, e.g. the four seasons). Also, I don't think Kendricks is one of the main inspirations for falsetto in the soul era. He definitely had one of the most famous and recognizable falsetto voices, and he was part of probably the biggest R&B group of all time, but the temptations sound was always built around the David Ruffin type lead, switching off between the bass, high tenor / falsetto, second tenor, etc. I think the Impressions were more responsible for the types of falsetto that became important in soul, as the lead (and harmonies) were falsetto. Also, more of an inspiration for 70s falsetto harmony was probably groups like Little Anthony and the Imperials.